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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Very simple kart physics

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blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2018 21:55 Edited at: 1st Jan 2019 23:21
First of all This is by NO means car physics. It's a fudge that gives me something like mario kart physics. Which is what i'm after.
Still much work to do. Slamming into walls makes it go haywire and sometimes it will clip the edge of those hills and go haywire.
None the less about 90% done as far as physics are concerned

Thanks to fubarpk for his help in the design and TESTING
Added source code




V1.3
1. Separated out the walls to prevent tunneling. There is some code there in CheckWalls() which turns off the engine if the collision is abrupt
There are three methods for calculating the direction of linear force: VEHICLE/GROUND/AVERAGE
- VEHICLE : Direction is the car facing forward
- GROUND: Direction is where the wheels contact the ground
- AVERAGE(Current setting): Average of GROUND and VEHICLE
Added some debug switches to show what's going on

V1.4
Environment changes

v1.5
Walls have a little bounce back

v1.6
Changes;
1. Throttle velocity when falling from a great height
2. First person camera (C to toggle cameras) very early, needs more easing of the camera and modelling to show windscreen frame etc
3. Brakes... Who am i kidding, it's just an excuse to drift
4. Added massive ramp

Bugs;
It still tunnels if you slam into the side of the small ramps where they meet the ground. It forces the car into the ground. For now i'm calling it a design flaw and will probably change the shape of the ramp


v1.7
1. Tunneling changes
2. SCALE_3D value scales forces/values to the scale of the 3D environment (Not sure i've got every value yet)
3. Changed environment to prevent pinching


Note that it is set to a VERY high speed. Hoping you guys will bash it and find tunneling

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2018 22:09
looks fun, blink are you using any of the built-in 3d physics or coding it all on your own?
puzzler2018
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2018 22:10
Wow - pretty cool

"Power Drift" or "Hard Driving" here we come....

blink0k
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2018 23:01 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2018 02:57
Quote: "are you using any of the built-in 3d physics or coding it all on your own?"


It's all built in Tier1 physics.
One of the most important things i've learned playing around with this is to set the physics scale in Create3DPhysicsWorld(scale). In the example it is set to 4. I think the default is 40.
Otherwise the models need to be HUGE. The thing i'm most happy with is that i've been testing it for a few days and haven't found ANY tunneling.

Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2018 14:56
I am impressed. Are you using raycasting or joints for the wheels?
If joints, which joints are you using?
Are the wheels turning or sliding?
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
fubarpk
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2018 19:26 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2018 19:48
Quote: "Thanks to fubarpk for his help in the design and testing"

Your most welcome don't think ive really done much you've created some great code here

@Stab in the dark Software
The code without giving away too much, makes use of the physics commands already there
and uses collision detection to determine if the car is on the ground and should move or not
Its a great solution that doesnt need any complex physics algorythms other than the ones
that are built into AppGameKit and some clever code.

I really hope when blink gets it how he wants in his project, it gets submitted to AppGameKit team
for addition into one of the games packs as there would be so many people who would
love to develop a 3D Car Game but don't have a clue where to start
fubar
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 6th Dec 2018 18:32
@blink0k

All the previous comments came to mind when I saw this: Impressive, has the inbuild physics been used and will it be submitted to AppGameKit official examples, but most of these questions already have been answered, except the last.

So first of all: Great work guys!


I was actually wondering myself if the commands currently in AppGameKit would suffice to replicate car, boat and rocket behaviors.
Appears it's a yes.


Additional question: How is the interaction with other moving physics objects, such as opponent/AI cars?



GaborD
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Posted: 6th Dec 2018 19:26
Looks spot on for an arcade racing game. Great stuff.
blink0k
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Posted: 6th Dec 2018 21:59 Edited at: 6th Dec 2018 22:58
Sorry for not posting here sooner. I'm working on a package that i can release. Should be next week sometime

To explain:
1. It uses standard Tier one physics. I couldn't write physics stuff if my life depended on it
1. Its just a slab being pushed around. It's invisible and the wheels and chassis are attached. (Create3DPhysicsDynamicBody( )/SetObjectShapeConvexHull( ) The slab has a small lip at the front so it doesn't catch on the edges )
2. It raycasts from the center of the wheels down to determine if it is in contact with the ground so it can impart force
3. The raycast also is used to simulate suspension
4. It uses SetLinearVelocity() to move the car forward and SetAngularVelocity() to turn the car
5. Very very simple. Far from rocket science or even car science lol

@rick Collision response with other objects would be determined by the AppGameKit physics system
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 6th Dec 2018 22:51
@blink0k
Thanks for explaining. Sounds pretty cool to me.
Possibly also usable for other vehicles types, which would be exiting to try.

-For a ship the raycast(s) probably would need to hit the waves/water surface instead of terrain.
-For a rocket I guess the raycast(s) would have to extend all the way down to earth surface up until the rocket is in space?
Dunno if a raycast that long is actually feasible, or it would need to hit invisible platforms moving up in the sky with every rocket pulse?

Anyway, the prospect if being able to use car physics alone is already very exiting. Well done.


blink0k
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Posted: 8th Dec 2018 03:39


Trying to get the physics system to handle the steering rather than me trying to simulate it so i'm setting angular dampening rather than manually applying a dampening force
Still have to think of something to do when it smacks into a wall
So far i have found that ANY substantial change to the hit box causes it to go haywire. This is probably my fault so i'll need to investigate.
Balloon collision is spot on though.
fubarpk
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Posted: 8th Dec 2018 05:01
Well done blink you've def come a long way with it
fubar
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 8th Dec 2018 20:35
Looking good!
puzzler2018
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Posted: 8th Dec 2018 20:48
well impressed
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 09:37
@blink0k
Quote: "Still have to think of something to do when it smacks into a wall"


What actually happens when you do hit a wall?
(Didn't show in the vid)
blink0k
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 09:44 Edited at: 9th Dec 2018 10:00
The problem was it hit the wall and just kept trying to go forward and then went berkos!

I have fixed it to a point where i am fairly happy with it.
I turn everything off until the speed reduces to an arbitrary amount
I only do this if the change in speed before hitting the wall is 20% or more than the speed after hitting the wall, which is pretty much a head on collision or there about.
So if the speed doesn't change very much it's probably just clipped the wall and i just let the physics system handle it

I have been playing with it for a while and haven't gotten stuck in any walls so that is good too
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 13:47
@blink0k
That sounds really interesting. Might open opportunities.

When used like that, can the behavior be made to..
- slide the wall when the car is hit sideways, like for instance a road guardrail (or skimmed a wall for that matter)?
- bump back when hit full frontal collision? (which if detected we can then of course show by the front of the car looking dented/smashed)

fubarpk
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 14:40 Edited at: 9th Dec 2018 14:41
Quote: "I turn everything off until the speed reduces to an arbitrary amount"

That sounds like a great way of dealing with it. As with a real life scenario the car would crumble aswell which is very hard to imitate on pc

But I think you have done very well while treading in new areas for AGK
fubar
chafari
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 15:31
Very realistic...I like it !
I'm not a grumpy grandpa
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 18:03
@fubarpk
Quote: "That sounds like a great way of dealing with it. As with a real life scenario the car would crumble aswell which is very hard to imitate on pc"


Depending on the method used to create the car.
-If created out of inbuild primitives then reduce the length scale of the car front part and replace the blocks with some other config. Or mod the vertices if made of memblocks?
-If it's a 3d model then simply replace the damaged parts with damaged versions of the model parts.






blink0k
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 19:10
Quote: "That sounds really interesting. Might open opportunities"

Quote: "That sounds like a great way of dealing with it. As with a real life scenario the car would crumble aswell which is very hard to imitate on pc"


I am trying to always let AppGameKit do the physics stuff. I find that when i try to interfere it all goes to pot! I had no choice with the walls but if you think about it i'm not interfering, i'm just getting out of the way
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 20:36
Looks great and would love to see a kart game in agk….
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 21:04 Edited at: 9th Dec 2018 21:12
@blink0k
Time for another great vid showing the wall handling I'd say. (hint-hint)

Quote: "One of the most important things i've learned playing around with this is to set the physics scale in Create3DPhysicsWorld(scale). In the example it is set to 4. I think the default is 40.
Otherwise the models need to be HUGE. The thing i'm most happy with is that i've been testing it for a few days and haven't found ANY tunneling "


Question:
Did the large scale of 40 negatively impact FPS?
blink0k
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Posted: 9th Dec 2018 22:03
Quote: "Did the large scale of 40 negatively impact FPS?"


It just didn't work at all.

My next step is to scale up the models by 10 along with the physics scale and see what happens
blink0k
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 01:04 Edited at: 13th Dec 2018 01:36
Ok. So here you go. Have a play with it and see what you think

There are still issues that i'm trying to deal with;
1. Sometimes it will catch on the edge of the top of the hills and go haywire
2. Not in this version but it does tunnel. I think i may have found out why but i need to do some further testing
3. Sometimes it will land like there is a big, invisible hand placing gently on the ground. No idea why this s happening
4. When you stop on a slope it won't roll back down

Anyway, Enjoy

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Jack
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 05:30
Sweet

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Santman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 10:23
WOW, looks amazing.

If you ever want to combine this with my landscape stuff and build a simple course let me know.
fubarpk
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 13:22
Quote: "Does anyone know here how to stop tunnelling."

Poor blink has been working so hard to try and stop the tunnelling (that's when an object travels through another object and shouldn't)
I thought it was a problem caused by unsealed objects (ie a box missing a face) when an instance of time it detects a collision on a blank face
so it tunnels, but that doesn't seem to fix the issue. Im tempted to say its some kind of bug in the AppGameKit Physics System perhaps Jack or
Santman have come accross this and have a solution. Atm all i can think is a bandaid by having sealed boxes within the arched ones
causing problems.

fubar
Santman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 14:46
I've not spent much time playing with the physics, but from the time I have I've had nothing but problems. Tunnelling and objects just getting "stuck" seem the biggest issues. My world is VERY large in scale, so I put it down to a mix of that, poor help documentation and my lack of knowl3dge to be honest, that's why this caught my eye.
puzzler2018
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 15:10
May use SetObjectConvexHull instead of any other modes.
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 15:33
@ blink0k
Gave it a shot and it's pretty c00l !

Though does occasionally suffer from the glitches mentioned.
Got stuck on slopes couple of times on the spot where it goes over from slope to straight surface and reset didn't let break loose, as if some part of the vehicle was stuck in the slope model.
One other time when the car flipped upside down then the top half of the car ended up underneath the floor, as did the camera.

But it holds great promise.
Love the little cars design and AppGameKit arena. Felt like playing with dinky toys.


I remember Stab *insisting* on the large scale thing, otherwise wouldn't work properly with the physics. Perhaps that has something to do with it?


Santman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 19:52
I've been playing with it all evening and I'll be honest, I can;t get it to do anything accurate on any terrain even remotely complex.
fubarpk
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 20:20
@Santman

I think allot of that is it was designed for simple kart physics
The thrust system works by using the physics velocity and angular direction commands
It knows when to do this by doing a raycast on whats below it determining if it should move or just fall etc
So any new hills etc need to be added to its checking routine. Not sure if that was one of the issues you was
having but i thought ide mention how it achieves it. I think it would be perfect for remakes of games like
"Stunt Car Racer" and many others that didnt have complex physics to them. I just hope there is a fix someone
knows about for any tunnelling problems not the first time ive seen tunneling issues might pay to show
paul an example or hopefully he reads this thread
fubar
puzzler2018
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 20:30
Ive just tested this and i am lost for words.

Extremely well made and Jeeeeeze Whoop whoop!!!!

Just need an ariel on the car that waves about with a flag on the top!

------------

What tunnelling? - going through objects or something.

I couldnt recreate this effect
blink0k
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 20:40 Edited at: 10th Dec 2018 21:04
Quote: "I've been playing with it all evening and I'll be honest, I can;t get it to do anything accurate on any terrain even remotely complex."

I think the hitbox needs to be more complex for more complex terrain. it would also require a different approach.

Quote: "I remember Stab *insisting* on the large scale thing"

The models in this are massive. So large in fact that my 3D app can't manage the models so i have to scale them down to work with them and then scale them up to export to AGK

Quote: "One other time when the car flipped upside down then the top half of the car ended up underneath the floor, as did the camera."

Yes this is because of the hitbox. If i try to make the dimensions any different it goes to pot. I might revisit that now that the scale is larger

To see the tunneling use the attached version of the ground model. Drive towards the sloping wall in the image



Thanks to everyone for the feedback. It's all very helpful

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Santman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 21:25
I make the ground a static mesh and it ALMOST works - but it quickly losses it and jitters, falls through the ground, gets stuck etc.....I have all the possible variables dynamic but changing them makes no difference - if I had to guess I'd say the bullet physics can;t cope with a complex mesh collision quickly enough to keep up.

Maybe I'll try dropping it to 10fps tomorrow to check. Lol.
blink0k
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 21:42 Edited at: 10th Dec 2018 21:43
Couple things sant dude.
1. Make sure your environment is NO bigger or smaller than the ground.3ds model
2. You have a message
3. if you like you can send me the ground model your working with and i could have a look
4. The car runs on a sleigh if that helps

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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 22:11 Edited at: 10th Dec 2018 22:17
Indeed: Lost in space...

(with the alternative ground that is)

[EDIT]
Quote: "Quote: "I remember Stab *insisting* on the large scale thing"

The models in this are massive. So large in fact that my 3D app can't manage the models so i have to scale them down to work with them and then scale them up to export to AGK"


What 3D app do you use if I may ask? A lot of them do not really care what scale you set off with.
Santman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2018 22:18
I don't have a model mesh to share, it's being tested on a landscape in my world editor. Works fine on a flat surface, but throw in hills and it's all over the place.

I'll take a video tomorrow.
blink0k
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Posted: 11th Dec 2018 00:24
Quote: "What 3D app do you use if I may ask? A lot of them do not really care what scale you set off with."


I use a really old one that has been discontinued (Swift3D). The numbers from by 3D program match AppGameKit which is handy. Gotta make the switch to blender sooner rather than later
Golelorn
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Posted: 11th Dec 2018 03:12
Now that is impressive!
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 11th Dec 2018 15:38
@blink0k
Quote: " I use a really old one that has been discontinued (Swift3D). The numbers from by 3D program match AppGameKit which is handy. Gotta make the switch to blender sooner rather than later"

Yuck, blender makes me puke.

Nevertheless the newer version is a little better I guess, but still.. Reminds me of Adobe s/w. Used to like TrueSpace back in the days and I like more intuitive stuff like SketchUp(made a copy of my entire office building in one evening), but unfortunately unsuitable for this.


blink0k
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 04:21
All collision is now managed by AppGameKit physics. No special cases for walls
Fubarpk is working on a ripper steering system so in the mean time you'll have to put up with mine

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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 11:59
Still fun to drive round with. What condition does the red color indicate exactly?
blink0k
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 18:54
I forgot i left that in there. Red=In the air Green=On the ground
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 20:56 Edited at: 12th Dec 2018 21:00
good stuff, blink.

a couple issues:

reversing into a ramp left me in space as rick noted above (tunneling). in my friday 4x project, i was getting this a lot when i was applying angular velocity and no linear velocity. so, i don't allow angular v unless i'm also applying linear v (and i only apply linear v if i'm making contact with the ground). i'm not sure if you're doing the same but you might consider this if you are not.

i can sense the car model catching on the edges of the ground model (only tested the exe you provided for a minute or so but i "felt it" more than once). in my first tests, IIRC, this was a matter of friction comparisons between the 2. currently, i have the ground @ 0.05 and the trucks @ 0.01. alas, i'm also using 128x128 heightmaps stretched to 4096px and smoothing factor of 2 so any "edges" are rounded off considerably.

i haven't done it yet, but i plan on applying a (controlled) spin and "bounce" off any "wall" encountered vs allowing the box collision shape to simply continue charging forward, squaring itself up the walls/other faces. its definitely an "arcade mode" option vs any real simulation but it should help my project. have you considered options for the same situations? i'd like to hear them.

meanwhile, i've no time to really dig into my project lately so i'm living vicariously through you until i do thanks for sharing!

btw: when i would tinker with DBPro, i recall a SetObjectSmoothing command. is there similar in AppGameKit? it might help with the sharp edges since you're not using Heightmaps.
blink0k
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 22:13 Edited at: 12th Dec 2018 22:27
Quote: "Reversing into a ramp left me in space as rick noted above (tunneling). in my friday 4x project, i was getting this a lot when i was applying angular velocity and no linear velocity. so, i don't allow angular v unless i'm also applying linear v (and i only apply linear v if i'm making contact with the ground). i'm not sure if you're doing the same but you might consider this if you are not."

The new steering system doesn't apply angular velocity unless there is linear velocity so i'm interested to see if that is still a problem. If you mean that sloped ramp then yes that is a real problem and at present a show stopper

Quote: "i can sense the car model catching on the edges of the ground model (only tested the exe you provided for a minute or so but i "felt it" more than once). in my first tests, IIRC, this was a matter of friction comparisons between the 2. currently, i have the ground @ 0.05 and the trucks @ 0.01. alas, i'm also using 128x128 heightmaps stretched to 4096px and smoothing factor of 2 so any "edges" are rounded off considerably.

i haven't done it yet, but i plan on applying a (controlled) spin and "bounce" off any "wall" encountered vs allowing the box collision shape to simply continue charging forward, squaring itself up the walls/other faces. its definitely an "arcade mode" option vs any real simulation but it should help my project. have you considered options for the same situations? i'd like to hear them."

The fact that you are getting stuff to work on an organic environment is really impressive! As soon as i try add anything organic it starts tunneling
I really don't want to interfere with the AppGameKit physics system at all. At present i am experimenting with a compound shape that has cylinders for each wheel. I'm thinking that will stop the "catching". Besides, how am i gonna do and "ice" level if i cant fiddle with the friction?
As far as velocity goes i get the current velocity from AGC using the distance from (0,0,0) to GetObject3DPhysicsLinearVelocityX/Y/Z() . I need to manage if it is going forward or backward. Then i just add an impulse to ApplyLinearVelocity(). So if i hit a wall then AppGameKit changes the velocity, which i can retrieve, then i apply my impulse. So i'm never "setting" linear velocity. Just applying an impulse

Btw: Do you use ray casting? If so do you use the regular ones or the 3DPhysics ones?

Quote: "when i would tinker with DBPro, i recall a SetObjectSmoothing command. is there similar in AppGameKit? it might help with the sharp edges since you're not using Heightmaps."

I can just add polys and smooth it out that way

You have a Message!

Thanks heaps everyone for testing this out. It really helps a lot!!!
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 23:36
no rays (yet?). i want to avoid that if i can where i want to let (what's been provided of) bullet do as much as it can without my support.

and, message received. thank you. you have a response!
blink0k
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Posted: 12th Dec 2018 23:37
Thanks man!
blink0k
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Posted: 13th Dec 2018 01:41
I have updated the scene to include an organic "hill" thingy.
If you get a chance could you guys give it a thrashing and see if there's any tunneling?

Update is in first post
Thanks heaps

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