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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Devs giving TGC a bad name

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PartTimeCoder
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Posted: 25th Feb 2021 09:59 Edited at: 25th Feb 2021 11:35
Just stumbled across this video showcasing some "games" found on Steam, it was painful to watch!!

Anyone recognise the engine?


Anyone looking to release a game with Max, on Steam, good luck
Raven
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Posted: 25th Feb 2021 11:31
I guess on the plus side... at least the (suspiciously Chinese sounding names) guy is using a Product he has to pay for.
I mean., if he did or not is beside the point; but it makes a refreshing change from everyone using Unity (because it's free) and asset flipping; and strictly speaking there is SOME Gameplay., more or less because it's default GameGuru, but still again a step up from those who asset flip in Unity with pre-made projects that they break when they use them.

In any case., there is a bit of irony that those who do stuff like this (in shameless cash grabs, although you have to wonder if they actually succeed) will usually have a Watermark of the Product; where-as the High Quality Games made with said same Product never do.
Of course I'm unaware of any from GameGuru, but still there are some decent games from AppGameKit / DBP / DBC.
Heck, remember the Polybius Urban Legend; the only playable version of that creepypasta game was made in DBP... so ya know there's some kudos there.

I'm trying to remember the name of that one that's Semi-Famous and had like a dozen entries in the series... oh that's going to bug me as I'm sure he released a new one not that long back.
Remember seeing it on Steam or something and being like "Well blow me... that's still going"
Ortu
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Posted: 27th Feb 2021 17:56 Edited at: 27th Feb 2021 18:03
Star rogue? Star wraith? Something like that
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Raven
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Posted: 27th Feb 2021 23:25
Star Wraith., yeah that's the one.
I think Star Rogue was an Elite Clone...
Phaelax
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 01:47
So what's the scam part? Why does every release from a developer need to be from the same publisher? (and technically, isn't steam the publisher if you're buying it on steam?)
The games are just repeats of the same thing and all suck, but I wouldn't call that a scam. And star wraith was a space game if I recall, so I'm not clear on what that has to do with the video.
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PartTimeCoder
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 02:02
Quote: "So what's the scam part?"


So maybe the word 'Scam' is a bit generous, scam would imply some effort was expelled in making Steamers part with their money but clearly zero effort was made, Scam or not however you would like to word it still 100% liberty taken and needs to be shut down immediately!!

Ortu
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 03:13
Quote: "And star wraith was a space game if I recall, so I'm not clear on what that has to do with the video."


only as a tangent comment that there are some good games out there using tgc products

Raven wrote: "Of course I'm unaware of any from GameGuru, but still there are some decent games from AppGameKit / DBP / DBC.
Heck, remember the Polybius Urban Legend; the only playable version of that creepypasta game was made in DBP... so ya know there's some kudos there.

I'm trying to remember the name of that one that's Semi-Famous and had like a dozen entries in the series... oh that's going to bug me as I'm sure he released a new one not that long back.
Remember seeing it on Steam or something and being like "Well blow me... that's still going""
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Raven
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 13:30
Quote: "So what's the scam part? Why does every release from a developer need to be from the same publisher?"


It doesn't., but these games are essentially different (low-effort) levels from the same Tutorial / Example FPS Project from GameGuru and use the Pre-Bundled Assets.
The "Developer" is then not only selling each but they're deliberately obscuring the fact that they are the same Product by using different Titles., Developer Names and Publisher Names... to give the illusion these are Different Games.
In essence the work put in equates to about a Day.

Were these Free., then it would still be a Scam... with someone trying to bulk out their "Published" Portfolio., believe it or not as Sony / Microsoft don't actually check the Quality of Released Products; merely the Volume and that they are "Published" (with Steam being considered a Legitimate Digital Retail Platform; regardless of ZERO Quality Assurance Controls); then this could be used by the "Developer" as their Development History in order to be granted a Developer License and Access to the tools to Publish to those platforms.
Nintendo is a little different and they actually have a QA Team that goes over your past library of Games; but that said their actual Standards today aren't exactly "High" now.

Still that these are being Charged for., well this makes it more of a Confidence Scam... as it's obvious that the Creator is essentially trying to cheat people out of their Money with Low-Effort (Asset Flip Style) Products.

It's one thing to create a Bad Quality Product with your own Skills., it's another to just take Example / Sample Projects and throw in different configurations of Packaged Media to then claim it's a different Game.
As noted., the names involved are suspiciously Chinese (East Asian at the very least)... and I'd argue this doesn't just damage the TGC Brand being associated with such practises but also continues a Stereotype of the "Knock Off / Low Quality" Chinese Products.
All for what... the HOPES that someone will fall for the Scam and you'll make money from it.



It's interesting to see how some want to just make money (anything) from any level of effort they put in... where-as there are others of us who would like to give everything we produce away for free., but also would like to bring something in to afford to upgrade our Hardware, Get Licenses, Get Premium / Industry Standard Software, etc. which selling could cover.

Loktofeit
User Banned
Posted: 6th Mar 2021 15:10
What are some of the better games made with GameGuru? Might be worth it for TGC to have people put out some videos showcasing those.
Because right now, there are plenty of examples of garbage made in an hour or two, and very few examples of things that would make people say "Hey, GG and GG Max is worth buying!"

The saddest part is that a user CAN make something relatively decent in a few hours in Game Guru. The most time-consuming part is figuring out how to even use the program. Once you know how to use it, laying out a realistic map, dropping some triggers and zones, and creating the UI/HUD elements is rather quick and easy.

LynxJSA's web games/quizzes - LynxJSA's Android apps
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n00bstar
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 15:56
Nobody gets scammed by asset flips. Nobody gets angry about them except Jim Sterling because he's an idiot who makes a living getting angry at insignificant things. Absolutely no damage to anyone is being done. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy these titles. People make bad music, bad movies, bad books....bad everything. It was always the case for as long as there has been people around to make things. "Caveat Emptor" is freaking Latin for crying out loud. That should give you an approximate idea of how long this concept has been floating around.

Steam used to be curated... and people complained there weren't enough indie devs on the platform. They introduced Greenlight and the community didn't participate enough to make it work but they still complained about the lack of games. Now the gates are just wide open and people still complain. Sweet baby jeebus.. I swear... people just go out of their way to get offended by things of absolutely no consequence.

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PartTimeCoder
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 19:05
Quote: " I swear... people just go out of their way to get offended by things of absolutely no consequence."


I am offended by that comment!!

My point is that it damages GameGuru's and potentially Max's future reputation, GG is already sneered at and those games (for want of a better word) make the echo from the haters that bit louder, I don't give a rats behind either way I don't use GG (my laptop wont run it!) but as the TGC community we should all be a little concerned, no?

n00bstar
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Posted: 6th Mar 2021 19:57
Quote: "but as the TGC community we should all be a little concerned, no?"


Should we though? I think TGC does more damage to its own product (AGK) by selling it as a bargain bin software that's constantly on sale, and not taking it seriously enough to actively support/update it. Never once in my life have I taken half a second to ponder what tools were used in the production of a bad game and I'm quite sure that's the case for most people. If I come across a game that's cheap, bad, and not worth my time....then that's what I do, I don't give it any of my time.

I didn't know that GameGuru was being sneered at, but if it is then it's probably for reasons other that some dude in his basement renaming the demo project and putting it up on steam. It's more likely because the product itself is a ridiculous Unity wannabe.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Mar 2021 00:02
Quote: "My point is that it damages GameGuru's"

I could only see that if the "games" all said it was made with game guru, and as far as I could tell it doesn't anywhere. Which is why I was confused by this whole thing, having never used game guru or fps creator I didn't realize these were all taken from an existing project.
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Raven
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Posted: 9th Mar 2021 10:06
Strictly speaking it doesn't same GameGuru., but as none of them have the Title Card replaced it does say "TheGameCreators" in big bold letters (cause you know they have to splatter their logo everywhere as a watermark)
And it's not overly difficult to see which product of their was used... they don't exactly have a big library of products
Loktofeit
User Banned
Posted: 9th Mar 2021 11:30
"I didn't know that GameGuru was being sneered at..."

Outside of its immediate community, GG is widely regarding - by those that have even heard of it - as garbage.

The most common things noted are outdated graphics, terrible AI, and horrible UI/UX. No need to post any essays defending those points. I am simply relaying the issues people are presenting.
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"Stick to a single main loop (DO...LOOP) and loop through it every frame.
Do everything inside functions.
Use finite state machines to control your game.
Use lots and lots of source files.
Use virtual resolution instead of the default percentage system." - Digital Awakening
JLMoondog
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 15:26
The low effort, single level, cash grab games have been an issue on Steam ever since they opened their doors to anyone willing to pay the upfront fee. It's actually kind of funny seeing games made in GG, rather than the usual 99% made in Unity or Unreal, using free FPS modules and/or demos to quickly throw together some kind of gameplay. These specific games being 'reviewed' by Mr. Bigfry don't necessarily seem to be scams, but they could be depending on the scam. The biggest scam currently on Steam is card collecting and selling. Create a game with a crap ton of collectable cards than sell for pennies, repeat. Another popular scam is selling asset flip games to fans of a certain genre or demographic, such as the huge crowd base around survival crafting sims. Load Unity, download a free survival crafting module with playable demo. Release as your own product on early access and profit off gullibility. The last major scam is money laundering. Create any type of game, either asset flip or thrown together like these GG levels, release for $1000+, and use to clean dirty money. Gone are the days of literal mob owned laundry mats to clean money.

So when BF says these games are scams, I think he's referring more to the type of games these represent rather than literal scams.
PartTimeCoder
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 23:25
An action taken to part a person from his cash with dishonest means is a scam pure and simple, not your typical scam I concur as the victim is left with "sort of" something to show for his purchase but still a dishonest transaction, which is a scam.

Quote: "A scam is a deceptive scheme or trick used to cheat someone out of something, especially money. Scam is also a verb meaning to cheat someone in such a way."
blink0k
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Posted: 26th Mar 2021 06:13 Edited at: 26th Mar 2021 06:14
i have some water front land in florida...
jd_zoo
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Posted: 31st Mar 2021 02:33
The majority of new Steam releases at hot garbage, and its scary to think your hard work might get caught in the flood of clones.

Normally I'm all for people putting themselves out there, this could even be a case of someone young not knowing any better, but it does seem awful suspicious. It could be seen as an attempt to manipulate the statistics, or also a way to get nefarious software spread out.



Blink - I have some Florida swampland we might be able to work a trade out...

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