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Geek Culture / Reasonably priced gaming PC?

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Phaelax
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19
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 21st May 2021 18:12 Edited at: 21st May 2021 18:25
My nephew wants a gaming PC, he's 8 (or 10 I forget). I forget what games my sister said he wanted to play, but figured something with a 1060 would likely handle anything he's interested in. Considering the current empty market on GPUs, thought it'd be easier getting a prebuilt system, but I can't find anything decent under $1k. I'm not sure how cheap she wanted to go, but $1k was over budget. I used to be able to build a decent system for $600, doesn't appear to be so anymore. Best buy is out of stock on most of their PCs. I have spare parts to build an ok system but only with a gtx 660 (currently my security monitoring pc).

Any recommendations?


I just looked up prices on a 1060, over $800! I think I paid $200 for mine over 4 years ago, stupid crypto miners!
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Ortu
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Posted: 22nd May 2021 01:22
I've been trying to find a good card at a decent price for months. Wish you luck it's tough out there
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Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd May 2021 05:41
Right now the chances of getting a Graphics Card are GFL unless you're willing to pay 2-3x MSRP
(GTX 1050Ti going for £250 is somewhat disgusting... it was barely worth it's MSRP of £145)

Right now OEM Partners are currently receiving Ryzen 5000G-Series Processors., specifically what you might find interesting is the Ryzen 5600G

6 Cores / 12 Threads / 7 RDNA 2.0 Graphics Cores., and these are set to launch Commercially in Q3 2021 (July - Aug - Sept) for ~$300
Now why this might be worth the wait is; well essentially that's going to give similar GPU Performance to an RX 560 (Desktop)

So 720p / High or 1080p Low / Med Settings in most games assuming 60 FPS is your target.
This can be paired with a Mid-Range Motherboard (say a B550., typically ~$95 - 120)., a 512GB M.2 SSD (~$65) and 16GB DDR4 3200MHz (~$120 for Low-Latency, which for an APU you REALLY want)

Well that would give you the barebones of a pretty decent Minimum Spec Gaming PC., and chances are your Nephew will most likely just want to play Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons, Fortnite, Sea of Thieves, etc.
I mean strictly speaking if 30 FPS is "Acceptable", which for kids it usually is... then you could (for now) pair it with a Ryzen 5 3400G., and upgrade later. Those last time I checked were going for like $160 - 180.
Vega 11 might not be "Super" Powerful., but it's enough for eSports / Less Demanding Games when the graphics are scaled down to Low / Med Settings at 720p.

And well really it's the ONLY choice, especially for a Budget System.
An APU PC also produces very little Heat, Noise and uses very little Power... like Total Consumption for a R5 3400G System is like 80w without a Discreet GPU., so you can pack it into a Small Form Factor Case; which typically come with 230w SFF PSU.
I mean you'd be essentially looking at a "Gaming" PC for < $500 all-in.

As noted., you can always later upgrade either the APU or IF / When the GPU Market chills out... a Dedicated GPU.
Seditious
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Posted: 22nd May 2021 10:05
Have you tried finding the components second hand? That might be a better bet.
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Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd May 2021 12:49
Quote: "Have you tried finding the components second hand? That might be a better bet."


I wouldn't count on it... there are far fewer Resale Cards than ever before.
In part because people (like myself) simply aren't upgrading due to the ridiculous inflation of GPU Prices., even at MSRP the Current Generation of Cards (RX 6K Series and RTX 30-Series) are simply not worth the "Upgrade"
Mainly because it ISN'T an Upgrade.

To put in in blunt terms (and I've ranted about this A LOT on the AMD Forums)., it's a Historical Situation where-in the Value from Generation to Generation is approx. +30% Performance for the Same Cost.
Sure, Card Prices Rise... but at the same time the Performance is also proportionally Higher.

So, say a Card increases from £100 to £115 from Gen 1 to Gen 2... historically speaking, this would be a 45% Faster Card.
As it stands however I upgraded from an RX 480 (£219.99) to RX 5700 XT (£379.99) last generation.

Now on paper., we are looking at Generational GPU
40CU • 180W • 8GB VRAM • 230 - 280mm Die (Mainstream / Mid-Range)

And comparing the two... well essentially it is (almost) 2.00x Performance Difference
The problem at play here is that we're also looking at a 1.73x Price Difference, even then this is ONLY because there was backlash to the original proposed £419.99 MSRP
As such we're looking at a 17% Performance Uplift in Performance Vs. Price., and keep in mind that Overclocking typically allows for up to 15% improvement in Performance...
In my case., pairing with a Ryzen 5 1600; the RX 5700 XT actually performance ~10% Lower than it potentially can hit (such-as with a Ryzen 3rd Gen or Intel 5th Gen onward)., while my RX 480 was Overclocked (1460MHz) for most of it's life; as it just happened to be great silicon.
As a result with my RX 480 being 12% Faster (than Stock) and my RX 5700 XT being 10% Slower (than Stock); well all that "Advantage" in terms of Price Vs. Performance; is gone.

When we move forward to the RX 6700 XT., well we're looking at 25% Faster; which is good, right? Eh, sure but it's price has once again jumped to £479.99., meaning we're looking at an increase of 26-27% in terms of cost.
The ONLY argument anyone can make for it is that it has Hardware Ray Acceleration., which is grand and all BUT few Games use it; and there's little point in Developing to Support such as so few people ACTUALLY have these Cards that it's a niche audience.

It's simply NOT worth Upgrading... even for Development / Work Purposes. And that's assuming you can acquire one at MSRP; right now they're going for like £650 - £700; which is an absolute joke.
This is frankly where I'm so infuriated by the "PC Master Race" morons, who are actually willing to buy at those prices just so they can say they have one of these Cards.
Because it essentially vindicates Hardware Manufacturers and Retail Partners basically ripping you off.

A while back just after the RX 6000-Series each launched, I did cost Projections on what each Card ACTUALLY costs to Produce... and put simply., the RX 5700 XT could've been £279.99 and still been profitable for AMD & Retailers.
The RX 6700 XT doesn't increase in Cost... it actually dropped in Production Costs; N7P is a cheaper (per mm) Node than N7 due to AMD essentially having exclusivity over it (Apple moved to N5., and were using the majority of the Production Capacity; hence this drove up the N7 per chip costs)
Yes., it's more expensive than N16 and LPP14 but we're talking 20% Overhead increases... N7 & N7P have Higher Yields with Better Yield Spread., this actually helps in regards to Lowering Costs Per Chip; despite the Process being almost twice as expensive.

AMD could've launched the RX 5700 XT for £279.99., the RX 6700 XT could be £319.99 and AMD would still be making a 25% Margin... instead right now they're making a 60% Margin.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not against AMD pushing Higher Margins if they want to., but I think perspective needs to be kept.

I mean FFS they're selling a Mainstream - High End Card for almost £500., when the Mainstream Market is £180 - £350.
And sure the Performance of the RX 6700 XT is impressive., but again perspective wise; it's bad value.
This all ends up being Bad for Consumer (like myself) who is put off or simply priced out of said Market... and it's Bad for AMD in the Long-Term.

At £479.99 the RX 6700 XT is... Meh. Where-as at £379.99 it would've be impressive., and at £319.99 (which it could and SHOULD be) it would've been jaw dropping.
And that wouldn't have just been good for those who like or interested in AMD... but that would've also forced NVIDIA to respond by dropping their own prices as much as they could., just so their Hardware didn't look terrible value.
I mean if you no longer have a clear 35 - 40% Performance Advantage in the same Class., you can't really ask for that as a Premium.



And this might seem like a long-winded post to explain why I haven't personally upgraded., but I'm not the only person who isn't willing to pay the premiums of this Generation.
Heck... I didn't exactly rush out to get the RX 5700 XT either, because it just wasn't good value.
It was a good (and somewhat necessary as an AMD Consumer) Upgrade., but it left a very bitter taste in my mouth.

It's a common story you'll see... A LOT of people who would've ordinarily upgraded simply haven't.
So there are far fewer Resale Cards on the Market., and when you factor in A LOT more people with A LOT more Free Time and Income over the past year; well what was a massively over-saturated Resale Market was essentially wiped out within a matter of Months; esp. as it was and still is basically the ONLY Option if you wanted to get a "new" GPU.

I mean think about it Early - Mid 2020., and you could've picked up an RX 480/580 (that miners were selling by the truckload) for ~£100... and frankly they'd be in far better condition than one from a Gamer like myself that tends to push their Cards Heavily on a regular basis.
Now? Well, Good Luck finding one for less than £300... which is above their original MSRP.
And honestly... had I upgraded, I'd have a spare RX 480, as I'd have given my RX 5700 XT to my Brother; and so his (my old) RX 480 would've just been boxed up and put on a shelf.

Instead, well it's still my Brother' Primary GPU... and that situation isn't going to change anytime soon.
Remember there IS NO Shortage of the Current Gen GPUs., ZERO.

Both AMD and NVIDIA are actually producing MORE than usual... it's just all of a sudden there is a much larger market, yet another Cryptocurrency boom and a dramatic rise in Scalpers.
This all means Retail or Resale you're basically S.O.L. when it comes to anything halfway decent or even semi-modern at a sane price.
Phaelax
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 22nd May 2021 16:55
I'm always leery of second-hand pc parts. I'd say at least half the people out there building systems don't know what they're really doing and you don't know what they might've done to the components. If they OC'd it on a regular basis or whatever.

Most systems I'm seeing at $800 use a geforce 710 and I'm like no way am I paying (well my sister) that much for a 710 system!
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