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Geek Culture / PS2 vs. XBOX

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 15th May 2004 10:49
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Van:

Quote: "IMHO take the next gen sticker off the PS2 because 4mb of texture memory can't keep up with the GC or X-Box (or a freakin DC!)."


yeah well, that's great for spec sheets and forums arguments, but your making the age old assumption that it's designed to work like a cache model, it wasn't !!. PS2's have threaded FAT main memory busses, effectively memory is meant to be used as a global pool directly and not cached. This is generally believed to be the best model for a multimedia systems, so data is not hidden behind one way gates of thin pipes (low bandwidth) to caches, aka the PC ..

Kevin Picone
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Castaway
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Posted: 15th May 2004 18:13
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I admit that "Halo" is a good game but that does not give a reason that Xbox is better. I say PS2 has more recognized games but Xbox I only know of 2. I look at the fun of the games than the graphics really. PS2 is for me
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th May 2004 17:26
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Yeah, but Kevin the GC uses that as well.
But it also relies on Caching, the result is loading times that are far greater than the Disc Drives speed.
It means that the data required is cached and loaded on the fly requiring less calls to the drive, which is different to the PC which simply uses the Cache as a 'read ahead'

You look at the GC technology can you can't help but think, Sony and Microsoft really don't have a clue what they're doing.
There are a number of things that confuse me about the PS2's popularity, and the only thing i can come up with is ...
Simply thier range of games.

Unlike Microsoft/Nintendo, Sony are about as fussy as a hooker about who they get into bed with. As such you have hundreds of crap games; but more over you have a good number of semi-decent titles that appeal to each taste being produced.
Unlike the X-Box which is really for the College Bloke, and the GameCube which has a very large kiddie library.

Personally hope that Nintendo are going to allow a few more companies into the GC world to sort out thier image. As although a decade ago Mario was cool, now he is too damn cute.
Resident Evil has helped shake the stigma a little so has Soul Calibur, but really that isn't enough imo.


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 16th May 2004 20:52
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Quote: "Yeah, but Kevin the GC uses that as well.
But it also relies on Caching, the result is loading times that are far greater than the Disc Drives speed.
It means that the data required is cached and loaded on the fly requiring less calls to the drive, which is different to the PC which simply uses the Cache as a 'read ahead'"


While i've never looked into the GC, the point your putting forward is not even of a relevant topic.

Efficient multimedia requires fast IN/OUTput interactivities between mem/cpu & co-processors. No device should be limited in functionality by another when accessing memory, for either in/output. All memory remain should be accessible to all devices during IN/OUTPUT.

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Powersoft
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Posted: 16th May 2004 20:53
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is this my first thread with over 50 posts? yes it is! joy!

*emotional msic starts playing*

Just to add to the confusion.
Look at my avatar
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 16th May 2004 20:55
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congrats

You forgot to read your fortune cookie. It says you're sh!t out of luck.
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Powersoft
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Posted: 16th May 2004 20:58
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weird i just predicted what the message you posted would say

Just to add to the confusion.
Look at my avatar
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 16th May 2004 23:19
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you want to know what's weirder? cmc fvcks teddy bears
O_O

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Oneka
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Posted: 16th May 2004 23:22
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Hey the best way to find our is to do what I did buy em all them get bored of em

A 1 man team
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Manticore Night
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Posted: 16th May 2004 23:46
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Quote: "cmc fvcks teddy bears"
Oooh, sexy(joke). HHAHAHAHA I kill me.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
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Gery
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Posted: 19th May 2004 00:33
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xbox vs gamecube?

hmm. i buy a PC and download the emulators to xbox and gamecube

it will simply rum on a 3 Ghz machine

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Gery
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Posted: 19th May 2004 00:39 Edited at: 19th May 2004 00:41
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sorry... delete this i posted 2x

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Tomy
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Posted: 20th May 2004 02:42 Edited at: 20th May 2004 04:17
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Sorry Raven but you're telling a lot of sh*t!!

First some technical information that are correct not like yours:

Xbox
CPU: 733 MHz
Graphics chip: 233 MHz NVIDIA XGPU
Memory (RAM): 64 MB
Memory transfer: 6,4 GB/s
Polygons: 125 Mio/s

GameCube
CPU: 485 MHz
Graphics Chip: 162 MHz ATI 'FLIPPER'
ATI Flipper
Speicher (RAM): 40 MB
Memory transfer: 2,6 GB/s
Polygons: 6-12 Mio/s [EDIT]30 Mio/s (6-12 Mio/s is with effects)[/EDIT]

Quote: "ATi 'Flipper' R300 385MHz - 3DMark01 6304 (Radeon 9700 Pro)"


wtf are you talking about?? 385Mhz??? Flipper=Radeon 9700 Pro?? what did you drink b4 you wrote that?
It's just a 162 Mhz Radeon 'Flipper' card and NOT a Radeon 9700 Pro

Quote: "nVIDIA XGPU nv21 350MHz - 3DMark01 4760 (Geforce 3)
"


Again wrong! in xbox there's a nVIDIA nv2A chip 233Mhz and NOT a GeForce 3!!!! NV2A was specially designed for the XBOX and is faster than a GeForce 3...

Quote: "Ram Speed - 8ns 400MHz 1.6GB/Sec"


Wrong! it's 6.4 GB/s, however it doesn't actually matter as it depends also on the Northbridge...

=> XBox is faster than GC as simple as that, don't try to find some other damn reasons!!
In my opinion XBOX is the best console, but that however is personal and depends on which games you like to play
BTW have i already said that M$ sucks


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2004 03:47
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grr i'll have to find out what was wrong with my previous post, i couldn't find any bad language but it kept complaining there was!

anyways i'm sure you got these from respectable sources but a little question:

12 million polygons/sec = 200,000 tris/scene
125 million polygons/sec = 2,084,000 tris/scene

not to pick holes ... but the 6800 Ultra can only just push 1,000,000 polygons/scene @ 50FPS

Care to explain how the X-Box can push far more that a state of the art card that outperforms it's PC version by a 1500% margin?
Also something to note, which most sites seem to forget;
162MHz is the FSB speed (and DRAM in Chip) Speed... NOT the Core Speed; these are very different things.

Another things to note is that the Pentium3 733MHz Processor runs on a 133MHz FSB, this FSB actually restricts the speed of the Ram (and of the texture ram).

the GameCube has 40MB System, 14MB Video, 16MB Audio (72MB Total)
the X-Box has 64MB Shared

the GameCube uses small 2/1MB pool ram at 6.2ns for streaming loads and 10ns standard ram for holding large data ammounts.
the X-Box uses standard PC Cache-on-demand techniques.

Also a point of note a 250MHz Geforce 3 Ti (which is what the XB cards speed is actually equal to!) is still only 3510;
Radeon 9700 Pro at 160MHz is still 4081;

(but they're not running at these speeds else they would actually be performing FAR FAR worse than thier PC counterparts.


The Future Looks Bright, The Future Looks Like a Short Fat Plumber From The Bronx
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Tomy
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Posted: 20th May 2004 04:03
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Quote: "anyways i'm sure you got these from respectable sources but a little question:

12 million polygons/sec = 200,000 tris/scene
125 million polygons/sec = 2,084,000 tris/scene

not to pick holes ... but the 6800 Ultra can only just push 1,000,000 polygons/scene @ 50FPS

Care to explain how the X-Box can push far more that a state of the art card that outperforms it's PC version by a 1500% margin?
"


That's easy: that's just a theoretical value of how many polys could be calculated WITHOUT textures, just only wireframe graphics...
These were the official values that were published after the release of GC, but honestly i also have my troubles believing it cuz according to that the PS2 would be able to calculate more Polys per sec than the GC which is, from my point of view, complete sh*t...

Quote: "Also a point of note a 250MHz Geforce 3 Ti (which is what the XB cards speed is actually equal to!) is still only 3510;
Radeon 9700 Pro at 160MHz is still 4081;
"


but it's not a 9700 Pro at 160MHz, it's simply a 'Flipper'.. according to ATI it was exclusively made for the GC and it's not a R300


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Tomy
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Posted: 20th May 2004 04:12 Edited at: 20th May 2004 04:16
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BTW here's some technical data

ATI Flipper

• 162 MHz
• 4 pixel pipelines
• 1 texel per pixel pipeline
• 4 texels per clock cycle (4 pixels with 1 texel per pixel)
• Maximum of 8 texture layers per rendering pass (done in 8 clock cycles)
• 650 megapixels per second
• 650 megatexels per second
• Point, Bilinear, Trilinear, Anisotropic Mip-Map Filtering
• Perspective-Correct Texture Mapping
• Bump Mapping
• Environment Mapping
• 24-bit Z Buffer
• S3TC Texture Compression
• Subpixel Anti-Aliasing
• Geometry and Lighting Engine
• 33 million polygons per second (peak)
• 6 million to 12 million polygons per second (with effects)
• Hidden Surface Removal (HSR) based on early Z-test
• Virtual Texture Design
• 2MB Embedded Frame Buffer
• 1MB Embedded Texture Cache
• 10.4 gigabytes per second texture cache read bandwidth
• scene texture data stored in 24MB 1T-SRAM main memory
• 8.6 GFLOPS
• Custom Macronix 16-bit DSP Sound Processor
• 81 MHz
• 64 voices
• ADPCM encoding
• Sound data stored in 16MB A-Memory

IBM Gekko CPU

• PowerPC
• 485 MHz
• 32-bit integer
• 64-bit floating-point
• 64KB L1 cache (32KB instruction + 32KB data)
• 256KB L2 cache
• 1125 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS
• 1.94 GFLOPS

CPU External Bus

• 64 bits wide
• 162 MHz
• 1.3 gigabytes per second bandwidth

Main Memory

• 24 Megabytes MoSys 1T-SRAM
• 64 bits wide
• 325 MHz
• 325 megabits per second per pin
• 2.6 gigabytes per second bandwidth

A-Memory

• 16 Megabytes DRAM
• 8 bits wide
• 81 MHz
• 81 megabits per second per pin
• 81 megabytes per second bandwidth

Quote: "Also something to note, which most sites seem to forget;
162MHz is the FSB speed (and DRAM in Chip) Speed... NOT the Core Speed; these are very different things.
"


I think it's you who's messing up things atm... the FSB speed is 81 MHz


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2004 05:16
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Quote: "I think it's you who's messing up things atm... the FSB speed is 81 MHz"


HUH?! do you even understand what you posted even means?

Processor Speed = FSB * Multipler ...
GameCube 485MHz = 162MHz * 3.0 (81 * 5.98 on IBM PPC is impossible!)

Really I dunno where you are getting your information from; but it is certain it isn't Nintendo/NEC/ATi
I would recommend that if you think by translating the Japanese you feel it is correct - don't it's wrong through babelfish.

Nintendo.com is the site you should trust.
Quote: "
MPU ("Microprocessor Unit")* : Custom IBM Power PC "Gekko"
Manufacturing process : 0.18 micron IBM copper wire technology
Clock frequency : 485 MHz
CPU capacity : 1125 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1)
Internal data precision : 32-bit Integer & 64-bit floating-point
External bus : 1.3GB/second peak bandwidth (32-bit address space, 64-bit data bus 162 MHz clock)
Internal cache L1: instruction 32KB, data 32KB (8 way) L2: 256KB (2 way)
System LSI : Custom ATI/Nintendo "Flipper"
Embedded frame buffer : Approx. 2MB sustainable latency : 6.2ns (1T-SRAM)
Embedded texture cache : Approx. 1MB sustainable latency : 6.2ns (1T-SRAM)
Texture read bandwidth : 10.4GB/second (Peak)
Main memory bandwidth : 2.6GB/second (Peak)
Pixel depth : 24-bit color, 24-bit Z buffer
Image processing functions : Fog, subpixel anti-aliasing, 8 hardware lights, alpha blending, virtual texture design, multi-texturing, bump mapping, environment mapping, MIP mapping, bilinear filtering, trilinear filtering, anisotropic filtering, real-time hardware texture decompression (S3TC), real-time decompression of display list, HW 3-line deflickering filter.



Nintendo GameCube Physical Specifications
Sound Processor : custom Macronix 16-bit DSP
Instruction Memory : 8KB RAM + 8KB ROM
Data Memory : 8KB RAM + 4KB ROM
Clock Frequency : 81 MHz
Performance : 64 simultaneous channels, ADPCM encoding
Sampling Frequency : 48KHz
System Floating-point Arithmetic Capability : 10.5 GFLOPS (Peak) (MPU, Geometry Engine, HW Lighting Total)
Real-world polygon : 6 million to 12 million polygons/second (Peak) (Assuming actual game conditions with complex models, fully textured, fully lit, etc.)
System Memory : 40MB
Main Memory : 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM, Approximately 10ns Sustainable Latency
A-Memory : 16MB (81MHz DRAM)
Disc Drive : CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) System
Average Access Time : 128ms
Data Transfer Speed : 16Mbps to 25Mbps
Media : 3 inch NINTENDO GAMECUBE Disc based on Matsush*ta's Optical Disc Technology, Approx. 1.5GB Capacity
Input/Output : Controller Port x4, Memory Card Slot x2, Analog AV Output x1, Digital AV Output x1, High-Speed Serial Port x2, High-speed Parallel Port x1
Power Supply : AC Adapter DC12V x 3.25A
Main Unit Dimensions : 4.3"(H) x 5.9"(W) x 6.3"(D)
"


Incase your unaware:
External bus : 1.3GB/second peak bandwidth (32-bit address space, 64-bit data bus 162 MHz clock)

That line is the Mobo FSB... which you can quite plainly see it says 162MHz.

System Memory : 40MB
Main Memory : 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM, Approximately 10ns
A-Memory : 16MB (81MHz DRAM)

That is the memory... System Memory != Total; a Misconception, the System Memory is for the storage of large data portions; the Main Memory is IN ADDITION to; not part of. Main is 1T-SRAM, System is DRAM both however are @ 162MHz.

The 162MHz associated with the GPU is actually it's RAM frequency.
162MHz * 2 (DDR) = 325MHz Total ... this is what the GPU should be clocked at; but there is an NEC release about how it is capable of running at much higher speeds because the GPU is actually .15 micron; There is another on NEC which covers how it is an ATi Radeon 9700 Based... it is called 'Flipper' simply for the reason that so there is no drivers required to change the BGA on the chip the entire things runs on NEC DRAM Technology.
This allows it to react faster with the CPU... which is actually the only thing i originally got wrong cause it's a 405.


The Future Looks Bright, The Future Looks Like a Short Fat Plumber From The Bronx
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The admiral
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Posted: 20th May 2004 10:38
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exactly they have mostly the same games and since xbox has a faster and better processer and a better graphics card and sound card and networking capabilities it makes the games better.

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sidewkdik
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Posted: 20th May 2004 16:38
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Um......

I hate the GameCube, to many baby games like lol Mario, lol super smash bros. haha baby console n e way

I did like the PS2 for a couple of years, but now I prefer the Xbox, because the Xbox has a wide range of great games, the graphics are the best, plus there with Microsoft which makes it stand out, Halo 1 is still pretty fun, Halo 2 will be the best, but for now I am waiting for driv3r, but unfortunatly they have moved the time to the 4th of the 6th!!!!

GameCube Sucks!!!

Currently: Making a new game project
Game type: RPG
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Van B
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Posted: 20th May 2004 16:52
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To tell the truth I reckon a certain group of Scotch coders will wipe Driv3r away with the next GTA game. Driv3r on the X-Box looks like it came straight from the PS2 version, bleh! - Now I loved Driver 1 and 2 on the PSX, but this is the noughties. I'll tell ya though, Toca2 freakin rocks - I hated the Toca games, in fact I'm not a huge fan of driving in general, but the response and control in Toca2 is the best I've seen (graphics are A1 as well) - move over GranTurismo.


Van-B


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Tomy
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Posted: 20th May 2004 17:50 Edited at: 20th May 2004 17:50
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Quote: "ATi 'Flipper' R300 385MHz - 3DMark01 6304 (Radeon 9700 Pro)"


Quote: "162MHz * 2 (DDR) = 325MHz Total "


See you said 385Mhz not 325MHz

Quote: "HUH?! do you even understand what you posted even means?

Processor Speed = FSB * Multipler ...
GameCube 485MHz = 162MHz * 3.0 (81 * 5.98 on IBM PPC is impossible!)
"


Damn this time i messed things up. What i meant is that the DRAM speed isn't 162MHz, it is 81MHz. And it seems from this quotation that you said the DRAM speed is 162 Mhz or am i wrong??

Quote: "162MHz is the FSB speed (and DRAM in Chip) Speed... NOT the Core Speed; these are very different things.
"


See the DRAM isn't 162Mhz


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GameKit
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Posted: 20th May 2004 18:00
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Gamecube for me...

Think if Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo combined forces to create the X-Play Cube

The only disadvantage Gamecube has is its inability to play DVD's...
I think you can find 3rd party Gamecubes that do however...

X-Game Station
Game Box Station
Play X Cube
CubeBox Station

...lol...I could go on for hours...or minutes...or something...

Previously known as "Game_Creator".
The question is, why am I talking to myself? ...... And more importantly, why am I waiting for a reply?
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Tomy
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Posted: 20th May 2004 18:53
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if they joined forces it would be much more expensive


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Peter H
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Posted: 20th May 2004 21:38 Edited at: 20th May 2004 21:38
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yikes! @tomy-vs-raven

i don't care what technical specs anybody posts(they are probably wrong anyway...did you work on the x-box? )...the x-box runs Faster and Smoother

you can go ahead and like the GC or PS2 better...i don't care...i like the X-Box

and also, did you know that becuase the x-box is so much better, the people who program for the other consoles have to optimize programs originally written for the x-box to convert them to their system? (that's why sometimes other consoles seem to run the same game as fast as the x-box)


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 20th May 2004 21:42
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Raven,
Weren't you the one with the 300mhz GBA? lol
...sorry. It is too funny not to mention.

WOLF

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:10
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WOLF the original specs had the GBA using a StrongARM R4800 32bit 300MHz processor; I did try to find the info on where it was, but you try searching through a stack of NOM as high as your leg

Magellan i dunno what you've been smokin' but it must be strong crap, either that of you've got a wiff of what Tomy is doing
I could respond to what he said, but the likelihood is he won't read that reply properly either;

You ever played Halo on the X-Box on a HD-1024i TV?
If somehow you believe that, it is running smoothly think again; the game very obviously is running at 25FPS (50Hz) and when you get to intensive sections the machine bogs down...

To say that the X-Box games when converted are optimised for that console is again crap. The PS2 has it's graphics lowered and it's frame-rates capped; Hell you just have to play GTA3 for 2seconds to realise the speed difference there.

Sorry but Microsoft's site quite clearly says;
Quote: "An Intel 733MHz processor, the most powerful CPU of any console"


Drystone 2.1 would seem to strongly disagree ... infact the Intel Pentium3 Processor would have to be 1.2GHz to actually equal the speed of the Gekko.

And this is what Microsoft are willing to say as the biggest selling point; Do you honestly think everything else they're saying about thier console is also true?

Honestly I'd like to see the X-Box achieve Resident Evil 4; I really would... but i'll bet you big bucks it can't possible achieve it and be close to the same visual quality as the GameCube; nor as smooth.

The only reason people seem to think the X-Box is faster is because publishers like id Software and Valve Software are converting thier titles to it; but what people fail to understand is for these developers the X-Box is like converting to a low-end PC...
Converting to the GameCube you have to edit the entire rendering engine to suit the OpenGL system, the ATi specifics, etc...

Although Doom3 could do it, I'm not sure Carmack is willing to convert it to the PPC. I mean even a Macintosh version of Doom3 looks doubtful; as there is likely to only be a Windows/Linux version.

Personally I want to get the chance to create a Quake-Style engine to the GameCube using a Shader Engine similar to Doom3/HL2 just to prove to people that the BS about the GC not being able to handle it.

It's stupid really, people are willing to goto huge lengths to prove the ATi Radeon is better than the Geforce on the PC but when you get into the Console market ... suddenly the Radeon isn't going to perform as well as a previous generation Geforce?!
You combine that with the processor being noticeably faster through a 3rd party test; and FGS even Microsoft were originally reported to want to use the PowerPC in the X-Box2 (Xenon) what the hell does that tell you!?


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:14
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lol
I'm not going to argue with you about it. I don't have the energy. If you saw that in specs of some sort though, I would say it was a typo. Anyway, it was just a joke. A funny one too.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:19
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i didn't get bent outta shape just saying; i did see it in NOM (Nintendo Official Magazine), didn't just make it up for the hell of it.

Everyone seem to keep throwing it up in my face all the time though, does get very annoying after like the 300th time someone goes, 'yeah like the GBA has a 300MHz cpu!'
i mean c'mon, wasn't very funny the first hundred times


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:20
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Quote: " and also, did you know that becuase the x-box is so much better, the people who program for the other consoles have to optimize programs originally written for the x-box to convert them to their system? (that's why sometimes other consoles seem to run the same game as fast as the x-box"


A couple of points come to mind,

A higher clock speed does not equate to being faster. This is computing myth!.

People would certainly need optimize (rewrite would be better) their shovel ware when moving platforms. I would be surprised however, if those doing the shoveling, would be willing, even if time permitted, to modify a programs design, to exploit the target machines design.

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Peter H
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:27
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Quote: "You ever played Halo on the X-Box on a HD-1024i TV?"

so? have you ever played halo on the gamecube? GC would run much slower in the same situation.........
(or maybe i should say, have you played gamecube (with a tasking game...) on a HD-1024i TV?)


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
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Tomy
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:56 Edited at: 20th May 2004 23:13
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Quote: "It's stupid really, people are willing to goto huge lengths to prove the ATi Radeon is better than the Geforce on the PC but when you get into the Console market ... suddenly the Radeon isn't going to perform as well as a previous generation Geforce?!"


Well the Flipper isn't a Radeon Like the NV2A isn't a GeForce 3 (or Ti)! So you can't just make a 3dMark test with some graphics card that aren't even equal to the console cards and take it as a proof that the GC is faster!
BTW I think you have seen all those things you posted b4 in NOM, right? That's just what the GC fans want to hear, because they can't accept that the XBOX is faster
BTW Resident Evil 4 doesn't look that good... i mean those are very small scenes and don't have too many polys! Moreover it has stupid AI and a camera that intentionally only shows the simple parts of a level. It could be easily converted to XBOX as it doesn’t look any better than DOA3!!! However, take a look at FABLE!!! Those are some neat graphics!! I mean it has HUGE sceneries, tons of polys, smooth animations, outstanding AI, real time character morphing, etc etc!
But you could NEVER EVER convert Fable to GC
Conclusion: XBOX has better hardware than GC.


GameVisions Softwares - http://www.gamevisions.cbj.net
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:59
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Kevin i'm aware that Higher Clock != Higher Speed, although Intel would've loved people to believe this in the past.
That's kinda the point i'm trying convey here;

And it's not that i don't believe that when they cross platform they optimise for that platform; but what Magellan is trying to say is that the X-Box isn't optimised and the other consoles must optimise just to keep up.
Which is quite frankly crap, they're all optimised; You want a damn good example of this:

Splinter Cell: X-Box 30FPS @ Standard 4:3 PAL 60Hz, on a PC of the same specs (as i have one) 800x600 (cause you can't do PAL resolutions) it get 20FPS @ 60Hz.

There is obviously optimising going on, as would be with any console release because you don't have to cater to the spectrum of hardware; but really all the games are optimised on all platforms.

Megellan FYI, I happen to have a 1024i HDTV Widescreen 32"...
I have an X-Box and GameCube hooked upto it; through the PC (using my FX 5950) it is possible to measure the input of frames being sent...

HDTVs 'should' be running in progressive scan mode (but the X-Box doesn't actually support this so best to bypass);
I have 007 for both consoles (borrowing the XB version from next door) ... Firstly, this game doesn't jump to HDTV; unlike the GC not all games for the XB will use it.

Next thing to note is that the XB also doesn't give you a choice in what PAL mode you run 50Hz or 60Hz (for the HDTV isn't a problem but that isn't the TV i have in my room, so alot of games are unplayable)

Boot up the game they should be relatively equal in speed... only a strange thing is;

XB - 25-35fps
GC - 50fps (locked)

Remember there is a HUGE difference in resolution!
Next test for the GC is a game I know slows down on HDTV mode (the only game to infact) ... Bill Hatcher.

Now running around the early levels with around 5-10enemies onscreen at once, and relatively basic levels the FPS is locked at 60.
Even getting a little further it wavers with 20 onscreen to 55FPS, but nothing you actually notice...
The only point it drops FPS and noticeably, is at the very end level right at the top of the Giant Egg Tower; Onscreen are around 60 enemies and the FPS drops to 25FPS (this is still quicker than some XB titles i've played like Baulder Gate: Dark Alliance 2).

The enemies in Billy Hatcher are around 2,500 polygons each; and the levels althought not really polygon intensive this section of the game I'd reckon the on-screen was around 15,000-16,000.

At a standard 4:3 PAL resolution there is no slowdown a pure 50/60FPS (depending on the TV); but the HDTV ups this.
What is more impressive about this is your shifting around 5,000,000polygons/sec all textured + shaders with 4X Anti-Aliasing.

Hell I wish the desktop i'm using right now could push that!


The Future Looks Bright, The Future Looks Like a Short Fat Plumber From The Bronx
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Peter H
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Posted: 20th May 2004 23:10
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well i don't have a 1024i-HD TV... so i don't care ...all the games i've seen have looked better on the X-Box...

but i'm not saying the GC stinks...in fact there are several games that are only available for GC that i play alot! (I.E. Super Smash Brothers!!! )


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 20th May 2004 23:38
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I have all 3 consoles.

I bought the PS2 first, of coarse.
When the price on X-box dropped to $199, I bought one.
Then I bought a gamcube used.

I can't remamber the last time I played a game on my PS2. I pretty much only use it to watch DVD movies now.
When I first got the GameCube, I played it more than I played my X-box. That was probably only because of some of the games that I got for it though.

Overall, the X-box is MY favorite. The Gamecube is next, then way off in the distance is the PS2.

My brother-in-law used to be a "PS2 only" kind of person. We had a *few* discussions about which console was better. Recently, he just bought an X-box. He now says that ANY game that is availbale on either platform, he would definately buy it for the X-box.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st May 2004 01:54
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i only use my PS2 for Final Fantasy & DVDs; always have though... never been impressed with it.
actually the controller more than anything put be off, it just doesn't feel as solid as the other consoles (or even the previous generation!!)

my XB is used when i wanna play games i can't get on my Cube; but me and my brother use the Cube so much we actually had to buy a second one ... (but considering i can buy 2 for the price of a single PS2 lol who cares )

In general i've found games play faster, smoother and alot of the time actually with AntiAliasing which just looks better imo on the GameCube.
Most multiplatform games, I get for the GC and a mate gets for the XB; can't say i've ever been impressed with the XB versions.

So I do have both to compare; and my mate actually comes over here alot more to chill out and play on the GameCube more than he uses his consoles ^_^
but that might be more cause we've got a freakin' huge TV and surround sound system hehee


The Future Looks Bright, The Future Looks Like a Short Fat Plumber From The Bronx
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 21st May 2004 02:18
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Quote: " Kevin i'm aware that Higher Clock != Higher Speed, although Intel would've loved people to believe this in the past.
That's kinda the point i'm trying convey here;
"


In terms of successor editions in a line, obviously clock speed is a useful determinate. But, it has little relevance between different species of chip.


Quote: " And it's not that i don't believe that when they cross platform they optimise for that platform; but what Magellan is trying to say is that the X-Box isn't optimised and the other consoles must optimise just to keep up."


Well thanks caption obvious.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
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