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Geek Culture / Strange Maths Facts

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Powersoft
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Posted: 27th May 2004 20:51
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hello everyone

i read somewhere that 2=1 and that pi is equall too length of river/actual length

firstly are they true?
do you know any more like that?

ps. i cant find anything on google so dont say "try google"

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
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spooky
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Posted: 27th May 2004 20:56
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Boo!
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Ian T
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:22
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Quote: "i read somewhere that 2=1"


If it was true the universe would not exist, it's as simple as that. I mean, really...

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Peter H
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:27
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Quote: "firstly are they true?"

....you're joking right?

(@mouse- interesting new sig\avatar )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:31
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Quote: " read somewhere that 2=1"


that theory relies on the fact that a = b, which we don't know anyways (someone in another thread has countered the theory by saying you are simply dividing by 0, which gives an undivined answer). If it were true, it would be a paradox and the universe would esentially collapse. take for instance...

the statement below is true.
the statement above is false.

this is a paradox; and simply put, if they were both "true" statement the universe would collapse. However, these statements have no true valitity at all, they really are nither true nor false.

Amist the Blue Skies...
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spooky
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:33
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Ah, so that's what you are going on about with pi and rivers:

Quote: "Professor Hans-Henrik Stolum, an earth scientist at Cambridge University has calculated the ratio between the actual length of rivers from source to mouth and their direct length as the crow flies. Although the ratio varies from river to river, the average value is slightly greater than 3, that is to say that the actual length is roughly three times greater than the direct distance. In fact the ratio is approximately 3.14, which is close to the value of the number pi... The ratio of pi is most commonly found for rivers flowing across very gently sloping planes, such as those found in Brazil or the Siberian tundra."


How odd!

I take back my


Boo!
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DarkSin
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:34
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this statement is true.
this statement is true.

.... wonder if this will work...
*Im horrible at math*


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David T
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:41
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Can any of you do this?

(a-x)(b-x)(c-x)(d-x) ... (z-x) = ?

If the pattern were continued for the whole alphabet, what does the expression equal?

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:45
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I hate polynomial expansion

Amist the Blue Skies...
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 27th May 2004 21:52
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aha its 0!

Amist the Blue Skies...
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Chris K
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:10
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No it isn't.
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D Man
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:17
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(v-x)(w-x)(x-x)... = 0

God is real, unless declared integer.
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Chris K
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:20 Edited at: 27th May 2004 22:24
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Oh yeah



Me and a friend were sitting in a lesson and we realised that in about two minutes the hour hand and minute hand would line up perfectly (about 12:30) so we tried to work it out before it happened, and we got it with about 10 seconds to go.

It was great fun.

See if you can work it out - the first time after midnight where the hour and minute hands line up perfectly. Assume the hands move perfectly smoothly
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Powersoft
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:28
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well
(a-x)(b-x)=ab-ax-xb-x^2
=2a-2b-2x-x^2
=2(a-b-x)-x^2

so i think the answer would be

26(a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-i-j-k-l-m-n-o-p-q-r-s-t-u-v-w-x-z)-x^2

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
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Chris K
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:31
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There's a bracket that looks like this:

(x-x)

This must be 0 so the whole thing comes out as zero because it's timesed together.
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Powersoft
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:44
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2(a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-i-j-k-l-m-n-o-p-q-r-s-t-u-v-w-x-z)-26x^2

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
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David T
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Posted: 27th May 2004 23:03
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The answer is, as people have said, you end up with (x-x) which is 0 so the expression must equal 0.


Quote: "26(a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-i-j-k-l-m-n-o-p-q-r-s-t-u-v-w-x-z)-x^2"




Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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Neofish
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Posted: 27th May 2004 23:26
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ok.....anyway i think that Europe doesnt exist, its just an illusion.....anyway


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Peter H
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Posted: 27th May 2004 23:27
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america is the only continent that exists! duh!

*says with stupid american tourist accent*

(BTW i'm american )


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Neofish
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Posted: 27th May 2004 23:35
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btw only i exist, im a nu turned nihlist, u lot are just illusions


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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:00 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:04
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"Proof" that 2=1:
Quote: "
16 = 16 Reflexive property of "="
4 + 12 = 16 From definition of "+"
4 - 12 = 16 - 24 Subtract 24 from both sides
4 - 12 + 9 = 16 - 24 + 9 Add 9 to both sides, completing squares
(2 - 3)^2 = (4 - 3)^2 Factor, rewriting as squares
2 - 3 = 4 - 3 Sqrt of each side
2 = 4 Add 3 to each side
1 = 2 Divide by 2
"


Theres many more, but they are all flawed somehow.

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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Powersoft
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:08
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but you arent taking 24 from both sides

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:09
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Yes you are 12 - 24 = -12

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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David T
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:13
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Quote: "Theres many more, but they are all flawed somehow."


How's that one flawed?

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:17
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wtf? u didnt actually try to come up with that did you?

the pi things tru, it works on the river yangtze.

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Powersoft
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:20
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does anyone have any lengths of rivers fo me to work out if its true.
i need to prove to other people.

how do you do pi in DBpro

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:21
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You should take add a +/- when you square route.

It seems to work because (-1)^2 = 1^2 , but -1<>1
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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:25
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1 = 2, FALSE

river pi theory, TRUE

number divided by zero = number...

Why?

1 cake divided by 0 persons = 1 cake




The
Quote: "
Quote: "
16 = 16 Reflexive property of "="
4 + 12 = 16 From definition of "+"
4 - 12 = 16 - 24 Subtract 24 from both sides
4 - 12 + 9 = 16 - 24 + 9 Add 9 to both sides, completing squares
(2 - 3)^2 = (4 - 3)^2 Factor, rewriting as squares
2 - 3 = 4 - 3 Sqrt of each side
2 = 4 Add 3 to each side
1 = 2 Divide by 2
"
"


part, lets rewrite it shall we?


(16) = (16), true
(4 + 12) = (16), true
((4 - 12)-24) = ((16 - 24)-24), true
(((4 - 12) + 9) + 9) = (((16 - 24) + 9) + 9), true
((2 - 3)^2) = ((4 - 3)^2), true
sqrt((2 - 3)) = sqrt((4 - 3)), illegal, there's no sqrt for -1
(2 + 3) = (4 + 3), false

last one (2 versions)
(1 / 2) = (2 / 2), false (1 / 2) = 0.5
(1) = (2 / 2), true, but then its 1 = 1

Quote: "
UPDATED

Amd 2800+ 1024mb pc3200 A7N8X - Deluxe Ati Radeon 9800PRO 256mb
"
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:26
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I first mentioned the river thing here.

I read it in Fermat's Last Theorem (awesome book).

I think it's an example of chaos theory or something.
On completely unaffected rivers in plains etc. it is accurate to 5 or 6 decimal places.

If you divide the perimeter of The Great Pyramid by twice it's height you get Pi to 15 decimal places. That's obviously deliberate though.
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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:31
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@Emperor Baal
You are wrong
number divided by zero = UNDEFINED (means that it cant happen)

But you are right that there's no sqrt for -1

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:31 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:33
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Quote: "number divided by zero = number"


Any number divided by zero is infinity except zero which can be made equal to anything.

0
0

0*1
0*2

cancel zeros

0.5

EDIT_________________

The square route of -1 is i
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GameKit
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:31 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:34
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I think Chris Knott posted this in the other thread...

A=B_____________________First, we assume A=B
A^2=AB__________________Second, we multiply each side by A
A^2+A^2-2AB=AB+A^2-2AB__Next, we add A^2-2AB to each side
2(A^2-AB)=A^2-AB________Afterwards, we simplify
2=1_____________________Finally, we devide each side by A^2-AB

...So we could say...

3=3______________________________3=3
3^2=3*3__________________________9=9
3^2+3^2-2(3*3)=(3*3)+3^2-2(3*3)__0=0
2(3^2-(3*3))=3^2-(3*3)___________0=0
2=1______________________________2=1

...ok... I am officialy confused...

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:32
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Quote: "number divided by zero = number...

Why?

1 cake divided by 0 persons = 1 cake "


1/0 is infinity...

take for example...

f(x)=1/x

the limit of f(x) as x approches 0 is infinity simply because the smaller the x the bigger the f(x) (i.e. 1/0.01 > 1/100)

the limit as x approches infinity is zero... f(x) conitues to get smaller as x get bigger.

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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:33 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:35
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WTF? NO
It is UNDEFINED Look it up. It is not equal to anything. IT is IMAGINARY.

@GameKit
Thats the other one. It is flawed too. Here:
A^2 - AB

A^2 is equal to AB because A = B, which makes you divide by 0 which is undefined.

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:36
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Yep.

It is strictly underfined but that's just because you can't say infinity equals anything.

It tends to infinity
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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:38 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:39
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NO
N/0 is not infinity or N.
0/0 is not infinity.

Any number divided by it self is 1. 0/0 = 1?
0 divided by anything is 0_________ 0/0 = 0?

You cant figure it out.

Also, zero is technically NOTHING so it cant be used.

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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David T
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:40
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Okay then people....

Here's one that's been bugging me and others for a while.

n = 0.999999999 (recurring)
10n = 9.999999
9n = 9
n = 1

Does 0.9 curring equal 1? What do you think

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:43 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:43
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Yep it does.

1 - 0.9 recurring = 0.0 recurring 1

It never gets to the one because the zero recurs
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:46 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:49
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Quote: "It is UNDEFINED Look it up. It is not equal to anything. IT is IMAGINARY."


the terms Undefined and infinity are interchangeable.

however, infinity isn't an "imaginary number".

if infinity where an "imaginary number" would this statement be true?


@ = infinity

1/@ = 0

however, Id like to think of infinity as a state of numbers rather then an acutal number.

infact there is a whole division of mathmatics and number theroies devoted to arithmetic of infinite number sets.

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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:52
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Infinity could be an imaginary number. It depends whether it's on the real or imaginary number line.

There are loads of different types of infinity.

For example:

Imagine an infinitely long line with a red dot every metre.
Now imagine another one perpendicular to this.
Now imagine there is a green dot at every metre in the space between the two lines.
Basically like a graph axis with dots in the space on the paper.

Are there more green dots than red dots?
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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:52
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0/0 isnt infinity

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:55
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It is as close to infinity as you can write down.
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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:59 Edited at: 28th May 2004 00:59
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NO NO NO
http://mathforum.org/epigone/comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica/grencongstar

Read third message

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 28th May 2004 00:59
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Quote: "Are there more green dots than red dots? "


no, they are the same amount...

its simple put infinity = infinity

the same theory could apply to integers and real numbers.

there are infinty integers, but there are infinity real number in between each of the infinity integers. however they are still the same amount.

actually, now that you say it- infinity does dwell in the imaginary numbers area as well as the real.

but to say it is exclusivly an imaginary number is rather unfounded.
infact, the only imaginary numbers are the ones that are the square root of a number that is less then 0.

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GameKit
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:00 Edited at: 28th May 2004 01:02
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ok... my opinion...

1<>0.999999(repeating)

1*10 = 10
0.999_ * 10 = 9.999_ - 0.000_9

i'm assuming that 0.999(rep) is as close as you can posably get to 1 (without actually being one). Unless there is no such number as 0.000_1.

That made about as much cents as a counterfit pennie...

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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:01
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Another:
http://www.math.utah.edu/~alfeld/math/0by0.html

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:06 Edited at: 28th May 2004 01:09
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the answer can only be found through calculus andrew11, in lower level mathmatics it is classified as "Undefined".

Quote: "let 0/0 be undefined.

It's a common strategy in teaching to simplify concepts when they are first encountered. In other words, it's common for your teacher to lie to you. I just did! "


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:09 Edited at: 28th May 2004 01:12
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Quote: "If you divide the perimeter of The Great Pyramid by twice it's height you get Pi to 15 decimal places. That's obviously deliberate though."


No it isn't obvious. There's no proof that the ancient Egyptians had formal knowledge of pi.

http://www.jimloy.com/pseudo/pyramid.htm - more info...

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andrew11
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:18 Edited at: 28th May 2004 01:23
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w/e Im not going to hurt my brain over this!

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
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Powersoft
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:19
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how do you do pi in db

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
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