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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [LOCKED] Synergy IDE

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 20:12
@David T: He got it from the newsletter

Who re-stickied it?

My Website:
Freddy 007
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 20:21
Cool, but I downloaded it once, then deleted it again the same day. The next time I download it, it tells me that it has expired. Is there a one-day limit?

*** PANZERGAMES ***
John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 20:46 Edited at: 27th Aug 2005 20:50
No, each release lasts for a week.

If you really want to look at it then set your clock back

Restickied by Mike

re faze
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 07:21
YO! im trying to unpack an update for my belkin wireless network card and instead of the belkin card screen popping up, i get a synergy screen instead, this happened with anyone else's use of the install shield?

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
HowDo
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 11:27 Edited at: 28th Aug 2005 14:30
Hello! can't seem to down load the setup, gives me downloading speeds of broad band when I am using snail band?

Taken off old version of Synergy IDE, which worked in the passed, but now the download gone mad.

On another note, does this IDE complie and run DBPro programes?

I'm not getting you down am I, Ho Look! another fancy Door?
David T
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 12:33
Quote: "@David T: He got it from the newsletter"


Aah right. It's actually something Rich posted on the mods board when we were discussing Synergy - I didn't know he'd released the quote 'public'

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Jess T
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 13:26
lol, it's the other way around... He said it in the newsletter, then he quoted that to us

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
Want Better dbHelp Files?
Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 15:18
I said it in the mods board first - then figured why not add it to the newsletter, after some of you said "why not say that publically"

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
David R
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 15:24
Quote: "
The IDE uses an expiration system when a beta version has reached the end of it's support period.

Check this thread for details of an update."


Change the 252nd byte in office.dll from a 9 to a 10, and the expiration will be ignored (since the requested message function can't be processed. You'll be given the option to 'continue')

Works here at least Not trying to be a haX0r or anything


David T
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 17:38
Quote: "I said it in the mods board first - then figured why not add it to the newsletter, after some of you said "why not say that publically" "


Yeah, I'm fine with it - I just wasn't aware you had said it publically

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Xolatron old
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Posted: 28th Aug 2005 23:13 Edited at: 28th Aug 2005 23:13
Quote: "[quote]We notice a few people in the forum are getting upset that Synergy is going to cost money when finally released and "shouldn't they get it for free" / "why are TGC supporting it?". First of all we'd like to make one thing clear: Synergy is not, and will never be, the official replacement IDE for DarkBASIC Professional. That vacancy is still open. The reason for this is that it requires the .NET framework to be installed, any IDE that requires this cannot be the official IDE replacement. However, Synergy is shaping up to be a fine product in its own right. If you feel you've got an IDE that equals or betters this then get in touch with us. This isn't a single horse race by any stretch of the imagination, we here to offer our users choice and alternative IDEs form part of that."


So is this whole statement totally obselete, now that Synergy no longer needs .NET?[/quote]

I guess TGC will either have to admit that this is really the New Official IDE, or they'll find another reason to calm those of us who still have faith that the new one should be free. (Maybe they'll say it can't be the replacement because it costs money). No offense to Synergy IDE, it looks wonderful and I have half a mind to buy it once it's completed.

I think TGC will need to put a new section under the side-menu on the DBpro page: Editors. How will people know of Synergy IDE or any other if they don't read the forums?

I guess this thread's lost its sticky again. I can't wait for the real latest beta to be put up so I can download it (I rather wouldn't use the outdated version with it's bugs).

Good idea in the Code Snippets board, JohnY .

-Xol


DBpro IonRay IDE: Demo 0.1.0.0 available!
Jess T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 14:02
Quote: "I said it in the mods board first - then figured why not add it to the newsletter, after some of you said "why not say that publically""


Oh, whoops... I just figured that the Newsletter had been brewing with that message for a few days, then you extracted that info and posted it for us

I'm crazy is all

I too am waiting to see the new Beta ( interested to see how dbHelp runs within the IDE ).

Jess.

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
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Raven
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 15:42
I'm still baffled to what the big deal over .NET is, the lastest DirectX is always needed for Dark BASIC Professiona; .NET is actually smaller to download than DirectX. It also has been part of the OS since Service Pack 1; the only way people don't have it is if they're deliberately TRYING not to install it.

.NET IS MICROSOFT'S FUTURE, it's stupid not to try and support it as soon as possible, that way your shooting the technology curve rather than trailing it.

PowerSoft
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 16:16
But that is an awful excuse.

I have a Win98 machine. I dont want to install .NET just to run DBP. What if i want DBP on a pen drive to dev on the go. If I go to a machine without .NET im up the creek without a paddle.


(However .NET is a good thing, dont get me wrong)

Raven
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 16:28
Quote: "I have a Win98 machine. I dont want to install .NET just to run DBP. What if i want DBP on a pen drive to dev on the go. If I go to a machine without .NET im up the creek without a paddle."


Do you use DirectX 9.0 over 5.0 (the one supplied with Windows 98)?#
I'm sure you do, as everyone here does.

So why on earth would you be against something that is part of the automatic update service for all Windows 98 and above?
The only possible excuse you could give is it won't work on Windows 95 or 4... but then neither does DirectX 8.1/9.0.

I don't see the problem with what I've said. If TGC are going to force people to upgrade from DirectX 8.1 (which comes with XP btw) to 9.0 to keep up with technology; then why not use .NET for the IDE? Makes no sense that they're only just starting to think of the possibility of not reaching as many customers.

re faze
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 18:52
im with raven, i think if they want to push the dx requirement up to 9.0c then they might as well make synergy the new ide. i think dbp would be better with dx8 but what do i know

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 18:54 Edited at: 29th Aug 2005 18:56
Quote: " i think dbp would be better with dx8 but what do i know"


I think it would be alot more bug free.

[edit] And I would wait until Synergy was completed before even thinking about using/making it an IDE for DBP. I don't see what all the fuss is about. When it gets done TGC will do what they feel is right.

John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 21:53
Quick Update

I am not able to update the new version because we are still waiting on the new virtual machine system to be delivered. This should be available to us tomorrow, and so hopefully I can get a new release out.

I have spent some of the day developing my first commercial .Net control. It will replace the current Dynamic Help system, as it is an improvement in terms of speed and functionality (now you can click links ) If I get that to a good solid state then that will be included tomorrow.

Guys, don't forget Synergy IDE NO longer requires the .Net framework to be installed

Raven
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Posted: 29th Aug 2005 23:47
Quote: "im with raven, i think if they want to push the dx requirement up to 9.0c then they might as well make synergy the new ide."


That's NOT what I said. My comments are purely about seeing no reason why .NET should be shunned by TGC as a viable Runtime Component given the product it will be backing also requires the most recent DirectX runtime. There is also a good chance that when 9.1 is finally released (with the X-Box 360 at the end of the year) that one again DBP will move to this because of the new features available.

At which point they *will* loose thier Windows 98/ME Support. As DirectX 9.1 only supports Windows NT 5.x

Not to be funny but I've been against this ever becomming the official IDE from the get go. No offense but if someone is going to take the time to make an IDE for DBP, I would prefer it if a) they were actually using the language; something that JohnY doesn't seem to be focusing on doing for well over 2years, and b) would concentrate thier efforts on providing the best experience for THIS language.

JohnY's attention will ALWAYS focus on Omega Basic first, then see about adding the support for DB/P stuff.

Aside from anything else, as I said from the begining just like all programmers there is a complete lack of design sense; which as we've seen with BlueIDE, a number of PROGRAMMERS enjoy the design or lack there-of, people like myself who are not professionally programming.. actually would prefer something that feels user friendly.

Fine, so no I've not been programming for like 20years, I don't know half of the scenes for all of this crap... honestly I don't care either. All I care about is if people are going to continue trying to make an IDE that ONE actually gets done and supported properly.

As of yet this is something we have yet to see. I'm not even talking about TGCs support of the product, I am more speaking here the developer themselves actually giving much of a damn about it past released.

Every single IDE released to date, the original developer post-release have basically tinkered for a few months then left it in an as-is state. It's silly seeing tonnes of feature laden but ultimately buggy and/or slow releases simply to out-do each other.

You know why the Default IDE is still by far the most popular? Because it's simple and to the point; there are some features that would be nice, but on the whole we have something that works and does what we want without having to go through 12-layers of crap of get used to quirks. Anyone can pick it up and instantly know what they're doing.

That is the key to any GOOD application.

John Y
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 00:03
It is true I am going to focus on Omega Basic, with this being my main priority. However, Synergy IDE isn't going to be left in a half finished state simply because it is the main IDE for Omega Basic. Also, as this is the case, it makes financial sense to finish the Dark Basic & Dark Basic Professional support.

Xolatron old
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 03:50
Raven,
Yes, there are many 'unfinished' IDEs out there... but that doesn't mean every one will be. Rob K's is the most popular alternative, because it's nearest completion, even if it has stopped being updated. We all need to wait and see shat happens with all of these IDEs. And don't say IonRay IDE is left unfinished; I've just been busy with start-of-school prjects for the past weeks. If the IDE is freeware, then development will continue after release because the point wasn't to sell it to begin with, and thus leaving the creator to care significantly less after the release stage.

-Xol


DBpro IonRay IDE: Demo 0.1.0.0 available!
PowerSoft
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 09:51
My will remain "unfinished" while I try and get these bloody controls to work

Raven
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 14:30
Best to start small Rich. I mean look at the open source ones like #Develop, SciTech, and PureBASIC IDE. Each one you can quite easily open up and see what's going on.

In-fact you can alter #Develop to work with DBP aparently, but I've not been able to figure out how. If you could sort out how to do the language pack there, that'd be peachy cause it's very good on the whole.

AtomR
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 19:36 Edited at: 30th Aug 2005 21:40
How much do you think this IDE will cost?

-EDIT-

I get the error screen on the attached image when i try to run it. What's wrong?

Take care
AtomR

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John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:43
Synergy IDE will have limited support for Dark Game SDK in the next beta. We are still waiting for some software before we can release the next beta.

(see pic)

Quote: "If the IDE is freeware, then development will continue after release because the point wasn't to sell it to begin with, and thus leaving the creator to care significantly less after the release stage."


I would have thought there would be less motivation because you are not getting anything for your hard work.

Quote: " How much do you think this IDE will cost?"


No price yet, I was talking to Mike about the possibility of a bundle (of a Dark Game SDK version) with Dark SDK along with the Microsoft compiler - we shall have to see.

Quote: "I get the error screen on the attached image when i try to run it. What's wrong?"


For the time being you need the .Net framework until we get our mini-deployment tool.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 30th Aug 2005 23:49
JohnY.. gonna be brutally honest here.. Not sure I like the blue bars.. ESPECIALLY the way they're splitting the title and data entry.. If you're gonna use them at all, may I suggest you use 2 boxes instead of 4 and use the two to group the 2 sections? That might work..

Also, I'd either go for a lighter blue with the black text, or darker shades with white text (I prefer the first).

It also looks like they're vertically aligned tabs.. Pure curiousity here, how does that little window look with horizontal tabs?

My Website:
Xolatron old
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 00:23 Edited at: 31st Aug 2005 00:25
Quote: "I would have thought there would be less motivation because you are not getting anything for your hard work."

If one was not motivated to work on it to begin with, why would that person even start the IDE? A professional developer, however, might have only one (main) reason for writing an IDE: money. Once most people have bought the IDE and the number of new users who would only buy it because of new features diminishes greatly, a major incentive will be out of the picture.

One of the main reasons that I'm working on IonRay (or I stared it because of this, anyways) is that I dislike the existing IDEs. That incentive won't disappear until one IDE, specifically mine, has all of the features that I would ever want (and bug free, too).

-Xol

-Xol


DBpro IonRay IDE: Demo 0.1.0.0 available!
tiresius
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 06:29
JohnY, can there be a way in your IDE to have syntax highlighting handle your user-defined functions? I'd like to have my functions highlighted in a different color from the rest of the code, so they stand out.

I have yet to see this done in an IDE, but my experience is limited.

I'm not a real programmer but I play one with DBPro!
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 11:13
Tis a good idea! Make it so when you type in the command, the arguements appear too (like NetBeans does for Java)

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AtomR
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 13:49
I can't install .NET framework. It gets stuck when it tries "Registering System.EnterpriseServices.dll". And it wont pass that place with no error message. just stands there indefinatelly :s

Take care
AtomR
John Y
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 22:19
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the lack of updates recently, been tied up with turning my company into a Ltd, working on it's new website, getting Omega Basic ready for US distribution and getting on with my day job...phew.

Anyway, here is an interesting file for you guys who

a). Don't have .Net installed
b). Don't want .Net installed
c). Can't install .Net

This 13Mb file contains a minature version of the .Net framework that is used by Synergy IDE. The cool thing is that NO changes are made to your computer (except the settings Synergy IDE adds to your registry). So, be sure to give this a go.

There is some image editing, and my own HTML control

http://www.digitalomega.net/mdeployed.zip

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 6th Sep 2005 01:20 Edited at: 6th Sep 2005 01:22
Ok - impressions after 5 seconds of use (because thats all it let me have)...
1) When I browser after selected Dark Basic Professional, I get my computer but there is no initial My Documents folder.. Is this intentional because My Documents to Windows is like Home to Linux! And there's no place like home hehe
2) I cant find any settings page to customise where my default project folder is...
3) When I went to Vie > Editor Settings I get this:

4) Its starting to feel less home made.. but can your REALLY PLEASE sort out these bugs! I know beta testers are meant to find them - but I cant help but feeling that there is no point us beta testing it if we can only load the damed thing for 5 seconds! thats 2 times in a row now I've downloaded this IDE and 2 times in a row its lasted 5 seconds... Twighlight lasted longer than that!

Nick

EDIT: I must say though - at least this time it didn't corrupt a project file in 5 seconds, although that may have been because I didn't use it for long enough to open one
Its an impressive feat when an editor crashes before you can do any editing :p

Its looking good though JohnY.. I dont mean to always sound negative - but apart from a pretty interface and some tools I'm never gonna use - I've yet to see much positive come from this IDE yet...

My Website:
John Y
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 13:29
Nicholas I will look into your issues, but that release wasen't the latest I think, I will have to check - it was just to see if it would work on non-.Net machines.

The official Synergy website is up at http://www.digitalzenith.net, with the official domain being synergyide.net when I get it sorted tonight. The website won't be finished until the end of the week, but it 'will do' for the moment.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 15:37
a few point about the site... (just my opinion)...
1) Could the text be a smidge darker? Its too close to the background colour I think.. It makes it a little hard to read.
2) SWF exporting? Shockwave? Have I missed something?
3) Whats Hydra?
4) Why the pictures of those people? What relevance do they have? Just my opinion, but I think they look a little out of place...
5) You like your flash dont you! a quarter of a meg header.. poor dialup people! That'd take about 6 seconds to get on most broadband connections! Also - why the picture of a computer? Initially I thought I'd stumbled upon a computer sales site... I also only accidentally found out that was a naviagtion menu at the top.. Maybe that could be clearer?

apart from that - I like it.. Its a nice layout with very clear sections.

I only mention the above to try to help - I'm not just picking on you

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EsteemDE
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 15:40
When I installed the program and ran it I got an error saying it has expired. I have never downloaded or installed this before so I have no idea what happened. I downloaded the Lite version from the link you provided.

Software I use:
DarkBASIC Pro (no extensions yet), Cartography Shop, Milkshape 3D, Paint Shop Pro 9, Magix Music Maker(E)10
David R
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 19:17 Edited at: 9th Sep 2005 19:19
Quote: "
Synergy IDE

Available now
Buy now for
$19.99"


Ahem

Quote: "Visual Studio 2005 Look and Feel
Full syntax highlighting
Function collapsing
Bracket matching
Integrated spell checking
Automated backup system
Macro recording
Image Editing with 30+ functions

HTML, PDF, SWF exporting

Online knowledgabase
Preloaded snippet library
Full offline help file
Localisation wizard
Dark Basic Professional upgrade wizard
New project templates
Solution explorer
Variable and array usage display
Command replacement engine
Dynamic Help browser
Search in Files
Bookmark saving and navigation
Breakpoints"


How is that (the one in bold) relevant to the editor? And what, may I ask is the use in exporting code (I assume thats what you mean at least) as SWF?


John Y
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 21:24
SWF is for the image functions, with the ability to load SWF files (via plugins) in DB it is an extra feature which may come in use.

David T
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 22:10
Sorry to ask an OT question John, but in Omega Basic I keep getting errors about the .obp files not found on the F drive - I assume you have one - on mine it's an SD card drive, so there's nothing on it!

Is there a way to set it back?

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 10th Sep 2005 00:16
$20 just for an IDE

Thanks for Blue IDE RobK.

Xolatron old
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Posted: 10th Sep 2005 01:49
Have you forgotten about we who posted in your "Help Expand Synergy IDE" thread, JohnY? Not even a thank you. I'm quite interested in this IDE and especially that sticky above Code Snippets that's been frozen for over a week.

-Xol


DBpro IonRay IDE: Demo 0.1.0.0 available!
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Sep 2005 02:15
isn't swsf copyrighted by the peeps at macromedia?

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John Y
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 10:27
DavidT,

Please email me at Suport[NOSPAM]@digitalomega.net and I will be happy to help.

Lost in Thought,

No problem, you do get free web hosting and a copy of VooDoo though.

Xolatron,

I have not forgotten about that post, and when Synergy IDE is released I will honour all my promises.

Nicholas,

You cannot copyright a file format.

I have put some information on my website about a free utility you get with Synergy IDE, Voodoo http://www.digitalzenith.net/Voodoo.asp

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 11:04
Quote: "You cannot copyright a file format"


Errr.. sure you can! Take a look at the MPEG format. If you want to use MP3 in a game, dont you have to pay royalties to the people over at MPEG for the use of their codec (ie file format)? Technically, GIF is also copyrighted so any commercial programs that decode or encode a GIF are meant to have special permission from the GIF people to be able to do it.. I'm not 100% sure of the above - but its what I believe is true. If i'm wrong then I appologise.

It still raises the question - whats the point of having Shockwaver format in an IDE like this? Is shockwave used in your language that you're developing it for?

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John Y
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 11:28
Hmm, it is true about JPEG licence fees etc, but then again you have open office et al loading .doc files

It's an implemented feature that hasen't taken any extra time, I'm sure some people will find it useful

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 13:00
Hehe.. so its a feature-for-the-hell-of-it

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the_winch
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 16:07
Quote: "Errr.. sure you can! Take a look at the MPEG format. If you want to use MP3 in a game, dont you have to pay royalties to the people over at MPEG for the use of their codec (ie file format)?"


They have patents on parts of the encoding and decoding algorithms. If you want to use a mp3 in a game you need to decode it to play it. If you are distributing the decoding algorithm with your game you need to pay.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 16:26
So based on that - if Macromedia have patents on the Shockwave encoding algorithms (which surely they do?) and one releases a product that uses these encoding algorithms then surely one must pay Macromedia for the use of said code?

(I dont normally speak like that )

JohnY - any news on the IDE itself, or are you still busy producing features that most people wont use? hehe

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John Y
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 16:36 Edited at: 12th Sep 2005 16:37
Well, I have spent a couple of days working on a wiazard to count the occurences of the word 'the', which then produces your GCSE English grade.



I am busy working on Omega Basic at the moment, but am offloading that to someone else when I have done the important part. Last night I removed some un-needed references which will reduce file size, and rewrote the registry code. Tonight, I want to try and get a new beta up, as the current link 404's after we moved servers

Nicholas Thompson
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Joined: 6th Sep 2004
Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 12th Sep 2005 16:46
Cool - so the IDE is coming along nicely then.. That wizard sounds interesting.. Maybe you could have it so that it can take custom word array's with weightings on the words.. That way we can create our own marking scheme for work. It could maybe also count the number of times the user has used the tab key and if they haven't used it enough it permanently turns their PC off

Actually - I recall seeing a feature of MS Words spell checker that analyses your work and gives it a grade on readability.

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David T
Retired Moderator
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 12th Sep 2005 19:39
Quote: "which then produces your GCSE English grade."


Not worth it, trust me. GCSE English is just too random.

Quote: "Actually - I recall seeing a feature of MS Words spell checker that analyses your work and gives it a grade on readability."


Readability, on the other hand, can be measured. In fact there are loads of different algorithms.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"

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