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3 Dimensional Chat / Weapons Contest [Entries] [Voting]

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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 19:49 Edited at: 29th Jun 2006 19:52
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i think he means we should have some sort of list of voting guidlines like

Quote: "best looking weapon
best concept
best fitting to realistic proportions and rules
best lo poly
best for game use"


rather than

Quote: "
Least similar to contest title
Most bloom/specular/reflection/whatever on final render
Best model(in small print)
"




[edit] Also, accuracy of the model would be a big factor imo, so if people go for fully fictional designs they should atleast upload some concept sketches or references.

Cause to be honest most people here arent voting on the actual model, the final render counts for probably 50% of the decision making, look at my spaceship entry that has quite alot of 'effects' in and around the scene and i no doubt won, i wonder if i had just used a clay render would the outcome have been the same?

Hallowed are the ori.
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Bahamut
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 20:05
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If rendering is an issue, why not add a rule for some contests (not all) that the model has to be imported into Dark Basic and loaded without any lighting,effects ect. Just a suggestion. I don't mind render tricks though with high poly stuff.

IceBound Melodic rock/metal band with loads of lead guitar, clean female vocals, and more guitars! What more could you want?
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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 20:43
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well i dont know about darkbasic rendering, as i can change my aa/af settings in my driver bar not sure if that would be fair to people who cant and still tricks like shaders can easily be added in dbp, but if this is to be just for game modelling then any material settings other than diffuse texture/normal map slots shouldent be altered from default and lighting should be stencil shadows or none.

Hallowed are the ori.
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 22:41
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those could be a requirement as a winner sees fit. but i dont think you should limit the democracy of these contest by making all those a requirement. maybe a reason why you voted for the person you voted for would be good.

God modelled man in his own reference image.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 23:52
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Right how's this?

A set of voting guidelines


PLUS

Theme guidlines, like;

Polycount-
Use of techniques- (EG, no nurbs, or simply no reflection or HDRI, or no normal maps)
Game render or App render (Either render within the 3D application, or import to your favourite game engine)
And anything else to be added thats with in reason;

for example, lets use the gun modelling contest as one

Polycount - Maximum 1300 (to be used in a F.E.A.R like game)
Shaders permitted- normal maps/per pixel lighting/shadows etc. But not shader reliant.
Engine(Game) render-(DBP recommended)

Other reasonable rules; Model must be textured, shaders are not essential, but are permitted.

And of course, you can still go for the null contests like

Polycount - limitless
Techniques - Any
Render? - Either

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Bahamut
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 00:48
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Sounds good. Keeping rules variable like that means that each competition should offer different challenges.

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dark coder
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 02:38
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Quote: "Polycount - Maximum 1300 (to be used in a F.E.A.R like game)"


ha, maybe you should re-check those first person mesh tri counts .

also if this were to be an ingame render, then shouldent someone slap together some sort of model viwer that could be the render scene for models with adequit lighting and normal maps.

Hallowed are the ori.
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Medieval Coder
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 04:53
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Quote: "Polycount - Maximum 1300 "


Sounds good to me!

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ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 06:38
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2000 is good

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Bahamut
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 14:26
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I think the poly count thing was an example. I dont think every compo has to be within 1300 polys. Thats pretty dumb, considering characters could be up to 3000.

IceBound Melodic rock/metal band with loads of lead guitar, clean female vocals, and more guitars! What more could you want?
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 14:50
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The poly count was an example, Big Add hasn't even given us his theme yet

But if someone could slap together a good model viewer for those game renders, that would be great, including features as mentioned by DC, that can be applied to models like normal maps, as that is becoming a part of the game making community now.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 18:34
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Woops my Bad. i'll have to think of something.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 19:09 Edited at: 30th Jun 2006 23:16
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Ok the theme for the next Compo will be Favourite Game Character.

You can model anything from Lara croft to Master cheif. or you could bring any 2D Game hero into the 3D world.

The Requirements:

1.Post all references you have used (images you modeled from)
2.Render in the Dark Basic or Dark basic pro Engine.
3.Provide an Exe with the model in, adding a wireframe mode and also a feature which allows people to rotate around the object and zoom in at places.
4. No Shaders are allowed to be added in the Exe. Just Textures.

And Finaly... the Poly Limit is 1500.

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ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 19:35
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shoot! it just had to b characters

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dark coder
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 19:37
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sorry to crap on your post, but
Quote: "1.Post all references you have used (images you modeled from)"


that would be a mistake imo, as for the g36 in the last compo i probably used around 100different ref pics.

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 19:52
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What about those of us who dont have db?
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 20:19
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Musashi to the rescue! (okay not rescue, but I have ALWAYS wanted to say that...okay I'm lying I didn't)

Lets change;
Quote: "1.Post all references you have used (images you modeled from)
2.Render in the Dark Basic or Dark basic pro Engine.
3.Provide an Exe with the model in, adding a wireframe mode and also a feature which allows people to rotate around the object and zoom in at places.
4. No Shaders are allowed to be added in the Exe. Just Textures."


to

1. Post all references if there is 5 or below, if not pick the 5 most used referance images.
2. Render in a game engine, or a model viewer that provides a viewing of the model rendered as it would be in a game (EG Deep Exploration) if you have none, download a demo of something, like Deep Exploration, or Torque or DBP or whatever.
3. I don't think this rule is fair manditory, some may find it difficult to code a model viewer, and not everyone is a DBP user, some of our FPSC friends do enter. But you CAN do number 3 if you want to.
4. No shaders are allowed in the exe. Just textures.

I will sort the contest out when I return from Karate

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 20:55 Edited at: 30th Jun 2006 20:56
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Ok, I've got the DBpro demo, hope it only counts days installed so I can uninstall and reinstall when's needed.
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Armoured slug
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 21:19
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Ok, just my opinion on what looks to be the new contest structure,

It seems from a simple suggestion on the poly count limit has brought in a whole new set of rules that in my opinion seem to just complicate a simple forum modeling comp beyond that what it needs be(no offence Musashi).

While I like watching these contests and most recently participating in them, it now looks like it would be extra work just to enter.

I agree with showing w.i.p shots but showing reference pics I'm not too sure about as some here might not even do or use reference pics for these comps.
I do for other projects etc but for my first entry(the weapon,gun) I used no reference pics or pre design sketches, I just done it off the top of my head, made it up as I went along.
So would I not of been able to enter that model if I had no ref/design sketches?

As for the Rendering in a game engine rule, I think we should just keep things simple. For those having to download demos(usually with a trial!) and then figure out how to import their model into the engine just to get a rendered shot of it seems a bit much, even for those with full engines.
And also just like modeling apps, engines have different rendering capabilities, along with recommended poly counts etc.
I don't see a big difference rendering it in an engine.
I think you should be able to render it in your 3d app, but have it in a plain scene, no eye candy, a couple of shots from the front, back etc and a few close ups.

And last but not least, texturing!
With work and other projects I don't always have time to texture some models and I'm sure there are others in the same boat. I also would not want to do a rush job just to get the model in on time. So would it not be better to let the modeler decide whether they want to enter their model textured or untextured?

I think its great to have a design outline like you mentioned, a weapon for a fear type game etc That will keep most on track.

Ok, that's it for now
So what you think???
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Bahamut
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 21:59
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Quote: "I agree with showing w.i.p shots but showing reference pics I'm not too sure about as some here might not even do or use reference pics for these comps. "


But this is existing game character. Surely you must use a reference for that. Remember that rule is for this compo only.

Quote: "With work and other projects I don't always have time to texture some models and I'm sure there are others in the same boat. I also would not want to do a rush job just to get the model in on time. So would it not be better to let the modeler decide whether they want to enter their model textured or untextured?
"


He never said texturing is compulsory. They're merely the only visual aid you can apply to your model.


Sounds like a good compo. I was thinking of doing Squall or Tifa but I don't know if I can do them justice. *runs off to find tetris reference images*

IceBound Melodic rock/metal band with loads of lead guitar, clean female vocals, and more guitars! What more could you want?
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Medieval Coder
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 22:01
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Im going to do Legalos, Aragorn or Gandalf. Awesome compo. Hope we can get real prizes and have them last about 1 or 2 months each.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 23:07 Edited at: 30th Jun 2006 23:13
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tbh i dont care anymore. people just complain too much than rather getting on with it.
People even complain when they dont win. If i remember correctly the only reason we have to do this re-shuffle of rules because People complained about why i was winning.

How else are we going to judge a 3D compo like this. You judge it on the one you like the best..... If i modeled a rock but Alpha Zero modeled a nice sunset. He may have not done much modeling and i would have made my rock realy detailed etc etc... people are going to vote for Alpha Zero. I say we just Cut out all this Faffing around. If you want i just wont enter in the future!

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 23:12
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I've gone and downloaded the demo, I'll get me hands stuck in when me models finished and who knows what could happen at that point!
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 23:19 Edited at: 30th Jun 2006 23:20
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Sureal Chris dont bother with the Exe and things. concentrate on the modeling... and most importantly Have fun Doing it!!

We dont need to change the rules. People vote on what they like visualy.

Musashi and I Came up with the idea for these Compos for a bit of Fun. In My Opinion people are getting too obsessed with winning.

Winning is nice. but its not everything. These compos are a way of testing ur abilities as a modeler and giving you a chance to show of ur work. I bet a lot of you have improved after entering these compos. Its Good Practice.

I say Keep as we were.

Only Rule that stands now is:

Poly Limit is 1500

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ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 23:46
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to low!!!! no way we can make detailed models

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 23:51
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good for game models though. Theres no debate... i suggest you get started.

I reckon from

1st Jul (including today) - 20th of Jul

This will leave pleanty of time for making the models.

Voting will be from the 21st of jul to the 30th.

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ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 00:14
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k

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 00:14
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alpha zero you can make a plenty detailed model with that poly limit. its just most will have to show through textures and snazzy modeling. i like what you said bigAdd. who cares you dont win anything anyways why be so picky?

God modelled man in his own reference image.
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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 00:38
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Now I'v got the demo , i might as well use it to render me models
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 01:26 Edited at: 1st Jul 2006 01:43
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Quote: "Musashi and I Came up with the idea for these Compos for a bit of Fun. In My Opinion people are getting too obsessed with winning"


Ditto, but for most to be happy, we need to work around the community, but I do agree, winning has become more of a focus, to be honest, we have been accused of being unfair once, looking at that member's history, its expected.

I think I should emphasise more how this is for self improvement, for fun and not to win, but the idea of giving certian guidelines increases the possibility of anyone winning, giving people more motivation.

1500 is a fine poly count, especially for an imitation of a game character...

This contest is very similar to the very first contest, which BigAdd won with Mike (I won't bother with his surname, but Monsters Inc.) And well good luck to all you people and have fun.


[EDIT]

I am beginning the next contest, but whilst we are on the subject of these contests, lets please discuss the nature of the contest seeing how it could be made to work for the most fun and still keep people happy, it would be nice just to say to everybody who has a problem with something to lightening up, its only for fun and improvement and nothing serious, but I think having these guidelines will make judging fair and will set people a target to achieve, but was it the layed back I can do what I want to my model as long as it fits the theme sort of way that people liked most? Well, lets discuss it.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 01:40
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I think that the compo was OK without many rules. I haven't had time to get involved yet, but when I do, I liked the old way best.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 01:46
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Quote: "I think that the compo was OK without many rules. I haven't had time to get involved yet, but when I do, I liked the old way best."


I see, you just posted during my edit, but this is what I want, I personally enjoyed the old way best myself, but it got to the point where people where asking for polycounts, saying how they should be for games, it should be oriented to game makers and yada yada, I was hoping by doing what I was doing made a compromise between the two, but the chilled out feel is gone, I personally would like to go back to the lets model freely and creatively way of doing things as well.

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Bahamut
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 02:06
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Quote: "I think that the compo was OK without many rules. I haven't had time to get involved yet, but when I do, I liked the old way best.
"


I agree completely, but if people are complaining then maybe a compromise should be reached. My perspective is modelling contest=modelling contest, not game-model contest unless otherwise stated. Polycounts should be given though, as use of polys is something to think about when modelling.

Having said that, maybe variable rules would keep the contests fresh and different each time? They could make you use techniques you wouldn't otherwise use.

Theres definitely too much of a focus on winning, although competition provides great incentive to do well and improve your abilities. I didn't get a single vote in the dragon contest, but I don't care. I learned loads, and I played about with particle effects for the first time in my life. Heck, I wouldn't even have opened up blender in the past 2 months if it weren't for that compo.

Do what you like with the rules though. Not my contest and I'll enter regardless of what you decide is best. Within reason of course.

Now I'm going to go find a character to ruin...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 02:22
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Here is an idea, have the obvious rules that have always existed, everything else relies on the theme picker, and well anything unreasonable will be changed by me to be reasonable and if anyone complains, I'll say if you want it your way, well thats the privelidge of winning, sort of like it used to be (I'll keep the voting guideline, I personally think they are fair) but the whole idea is to have fun, enjoy yourself, enjoy heartily comments and improve yourself, those serious and well more stuck up for winning and rules can well win and decide what their contest will be like. So theres more freedom, and well freedom has its limitations but its what makes it most fun and interesting.

Quote: "Do what you like with the rules though. Not my contest and I'll enter regardless of what you decide is best. Within reason of course. "


Well, its the contest of people who participate and well the winners now will be the ones making the decisions on how their contest is run (with me keeping it in reason) which is the fairest solution I can think of, so the only rules that we are held responsible for are the voting guidelines and the 'global rules' so if anyone doesn't like something one contest, then they can put up with it or not enter until the next one

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