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Duffer
23
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Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 09:46
Someone had to do it so I may as well get the blame... Commands etc we'd like to see in patch 5. I'll start the ball rolling with:-

(1) Load Object, Save Object, Append Object and Clone Object back with full compatibility with all previous 3d file formats and of course .dbo and Load Object, Save Object and Append Object retaining all animation and texture data in .dbo format...

(2) More Animation KeyFrame commands:- wouldnt it be fantastic if you could move your limbed 3d object into a new stance and save that as a New Keyframe or delete a previously existing keyframe eg. Add New Keyframe , Delete Keyframe , ; and Capture Keyframe ,,,

with the commands above even the dimmest of us like me could write our own DB modelling software.... }:>

anyone else have something to add to the wishlist???
TheCyborg
23
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Location: Denmark
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 09:51
3) Direct windows printer support would be nice.

TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
indi
23
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 10:25
***(2) More Animation KeyFrame commands:- wouldnt it be fantastic if you could move your limbed 3d object into a new stance

[ up to this point its possible]

A Model with sperate objects translates to limbs, so u can affect them with limb commands.



***and save that as a New Keyframe or delete a previously existing keyframe eg. Add New Keyframe , Delete Keyframe , ; and Capture Keyframe ,,,

that would be nice.

u can save mesh at the moment but its only one mesh saved.


u can make a text file of the animation using a keyframe model with no animation built in.

animate it by moving and rotating the limbs inside the keyframe model to simulate aniamtion.

save these changes to a text file in format thats easy for the computer to grab
and read back in

I would assume u would need the xyz positions and xyz rotations plus the movement direction and amount and a timer which indicates how long it will take to move to the next keyframe.


xpos
ypos
zpos
xrot
yrot
zrot
move
time

this would be your own format and not linked to the x file format
this extra information is just an idea if u didnt ponder this method.

indi
23
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 10:31
also here is a simple interactive puppetry system u can apply to your inbuilt simple mesh/limb model or u can import your own if u know what limbs are in your keyframe model.


UberTuba
23
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Location: Brittania
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 15:22
delete all static collision boxes

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Dr OcCuLt
23
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Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 15:32
Commands i like to see,

4)VECTOR3 EXIST(VECTOR Number)

5)MAKE MEMBLOCK FROM POITER Memblock Number,pointer,Size in Bytes

--Dr 0--


Most people are other people.Their thoughts are someone else`s opinions,thier lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation
Oscar Wilde
MrTAToad
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 15:43
Ability to detect un-used variables, improve pre-processor/compiler (prevent keywords being used as variables; #ifdef etc), improve floating-point support, make BYTE variables work properly, proper access to 3D, 2D, Sound etc handles (including DirectX).

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
24
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 16:08
load/save DBO is already done, those beta'ing Patch4 will have seen this already. 3DS/MD* import is done as well.

Direct printer support? Not likely - how many games do you own that print stuff out?! Write a DLL.

Static boxes become redundant when Mikes releases his new code.

The rest of the ideas are quite sound though.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Darth Coder
23
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Joined: 30th Mar 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 16:19
I'd like to see compiler/language improvement:
typed pointers or references to user defined types, and ability to create/destroy those dynamically. With the equivalent of C++ new, delete, ->, &, and type casts.
Improved dynamic arrays. Less bugs

"You don't know the power of the Dark Side." - Darth Vader
MrTAToad
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 16:29
Passing address of variables/strings etc would be good.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
EddieRay
23
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Location: USA
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 17:36
Pass user-defined types as arguments to functions (by reference or value).

Pass array names as arguments to functions (by reference).

FUNCTIONPTR type, i.e.:



Darth Coder
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Location: Switzerland
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 17:42
Yes, I forgot about pointers to functions, but they are really needed too. It's hard to make good reusable code without callbacks.

If we get pointers or references, then passing types to functions is solved since we just have to pass a pointer. And since we could use pointers as a field in a type. It becomes possible to do complex data structures.

"You don't know the power of the Dark Side." - Darth Vader
MrTAToad
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 18:00
And how about callbacks, an ON TIMER command...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 18:06
Not for Patch 5, but l8r on:

COMPILER
--------
Arrays in Types
Ability to compile DLLs

3D Engine
--------

Vastly improved Terrain commands
Improved BSP support
Unified Architecture (ie. Matrixes, Terrains etc. should all be objects and then we would be able to apply bump mapping, sphere mapping, texture blending etc. to them - similar to Blitz' Entity system)

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
REDOXODER
23
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 18:16
volumetric explosion will be good


UberTuba
23
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Location: Brittania
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 18:18
whose "mikes" and whats the new code

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Shadowfax
23
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 19:07
At the moment am looking at the file handling...

how about a open file for read/write ?

at the moment you cant write during file open for read,
and can only create a file to write to ...

open file for append perhaps ? pretty please ?

"No Gir ... thats BAD !"
MrTAToad
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 20:38
Of course you cant write to a file when its open for reading. Do you mean you want random access (reading & writing) ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Duffer
23
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Location: chair
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 22:05
Rich,

I await next patch (as ever) v eagerly.

Have already created my own memblocks within memblock file format for saving objects, their animation, textures, mapping and shading - but it runs like a [Dead] Pig...

If Append Object could load up .dbo and Load/Save Object retain animation and texture data then my problems would be solved. Saving new keyframes from new stances of objects (and their limbs within) and then saving out the new Object with the revised/additional animation data would solve so much... and I've no doubt your code will be v fast...

Duffer
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 22:08
Indi,

See above email to Rich. I've done the file format myself. It works after a fashion... but you have to admit that if those new commands I've suggested were introduced within the .dbo pipeline it would be v v much faster... Now the .dbo format has been introduced I'd assumed the DarkBASIC team will be using it to add some nifty new 3d and 3d animation commands...

Shady Simpson
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 22:45
I'd like to see commands to handle buttons.

bitJericho
23
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Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 23:06
Quote: "Direct printer support? Not likely - how many games do you own that print stuff out?! Write a DLL."


i believe a few games ea sports makes have printer support to print out statistics...i think ms flight simulator can print out flight plans...but then again...prolly just a minority of the community would need direct printer support^_^

Easily Confused
23
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Location: U.K. Earth. (turn right at Venus)
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 23:14 Edited at: 4th Apr 2003 07:35
I don't expect any of these to be in patch 5, but it's my wish list.

Create Animated Sprite From Image <sprite number>, <across>, <down>, <image number>
So we can use images created within DBPro and not have to load them in.

Scroll Sprite Image <sprite number>, <x>, <y>
Yes I know it can be done with Set Sprite Texture Coord, but it's only effective verticaly, use it horizontaly and the image will "trail".

Set Animation Frame <animation>, <frame>
Next Frame <animation>
Previous Frame <animation>
To control and step through animation when animation is paused.

Return Integer = Stereo Sound(<sound number> )
To determin if sound is stereo or mono

Create Stereo Sound From Memblock <sound number>, <memblock number>
Currently we can only create mono sounds.

DirectX Sync On
DirectX Sync Off
So we can program the option of turning the DirectX VSync on/off for lower spec systems.

Position Object <object number>, <vector>
Rotate Object <object number>, <vector>
In fact anywhere else where vectors can be used, they can be quite handy at times

Expand on Make Object Cone and Make Object Cylinder
So we can set the number of sides e.g. Make Object Cone 1,10,4 would make a pyramid shape.

Saving of bitmaps/images in various formats, licences permitting.

The creation of AVI files would be nice, but God knows how you would do that. Might be handy for creating your own animated textures.

Compile conditions:
#CIF
#CELSE
#CEND


I'm not greedy am I hehe Well, I think I'm done for now.

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
DangYankee
23
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Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 23:17 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2003 23:18
Just a small request for the get date() a optional Y2K compatible date format mm/dd/yyyy
maybe I missed it---

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
MrTAToad
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 23:25
I've got a plug-in to get the system date, time or date & time in any format you require.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
DangYankee
23
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Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 23:52
Thanks MrTAToad, I should have known, am going to get it now
thanks again..

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
indi
23
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 06:25
duffer, I agree those commands would be nice, it was just a suggestion.

The admiral
23
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 08:32
Not for this patch but id like to see some more commands for the particle control and maybe some more 2d commands as well.

[URL=www.vapournet.com/~flyer]Flyer Command Home Site[/URL]
n3t3r453r
23
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Location: Russia
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 14:52
@Dr OcCuLt
vector3 exist(v) isn't needed. Such source willn't crush your program:


@Ed Phillips & Easily Confused & Rob K
I support! (BTW, about arrays in types I've said already few months later)

I'd like Lee and Mike make DBPro like C and Blitz3D. We need a program that can change awful DBP syntax. But, as Lee said, Patch 5 is a bug fixing patch, and any extra commands that appear are purely a bonus.

I'd like to change the world, but God doesn't want to give me sources!
Fluffy Paul
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 18:16
With regards to printing stuff out, I beleive we paid our money for a product that can "Create any type of game or APPLICATION".

Do you know where I quoted that from? I'm sure you can imagine.

It would be nice to write an application that could print stuff out.

Ending a sentence with a French word is so passé
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
24
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 18:22
Yes, and you CAN by expanding it via DLLs. Nowhere does it say it does it all natively. I still think it's bordering on semi-useless for the majority of people, hell I'd rather see a windows file selector first or something useful like that.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 18:31
"Create any type of game or APPLICATION".

Fluffy, you are obviously new here - DBS' advertising is always misleading. This is not a 10-line to make 3DS Max type of product, GUIs are possible either:

a) via 2D drawing commands

b) via plugin DLLs.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
rapscaLLion
23
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Location: Canada
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 20:09
Fluffy: If you are going to get THAT technical, than you would claim that for any feature DBP is missing. You have to stay within reason. If you want printing, get a DLL. If it's just simple text, you can print using notepad I believe, just execute it with the right command line. If it's an image, try using paint. If you need more control write a DLL. It's called a work-around, something you should get used to if you ever want to program something decent.

Oh, and unfortunately, Rob K is right, never take anything DBS says/promises as being completely true...

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
TogaMario
23
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 20:32
More video card support I would appreciate it loads.

P.S. This is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
Xoid
23
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 22:22
people, calm down

let DBS sort out the existing bugs and speed up the engine before asking for any NEW commands, you 'kiddies' don't know when to quit

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
Terabyte
23
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Location: UK
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 22:59
I wouldnt mind it if set bsp camera height adjustment worked mind you not alot of people seem to have noticed the fact that t doesnt work. And i wouldnt be suprised if i doesnt get fixed till patch 17.2!

I have a word of advice...
..don't piss on an electric fence!
Kangaroo2
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Apr 2003 23:24
"If it's just simple text, you can print using notepad I believe, just execute it with the right command line."

- COOL how? something like c:\directory\notepad.exe /print "hello.txt" ? And does it print the file without loading up noetpad and/or does it close it afterwards? That would be very useful

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Duffer
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 23:40
Rich,

You may have already answered this... but just to be sure - Is it a goal/intended for Patch 5 that Append Object will allow you to Append Animation data from other .dbo format files??? If it is, I go away a happy wouldbe programmer!

Xoid
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Posted: 5th Apr 2003 04:20
Yeah, Kangaroo2, you could use something like this

Shell "C:\WINDOWS\NOTEPAD.EXE /p data.txt", vbHide

just a simple example, but it works

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
Solidz Snake
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Apr 2003 13:36
My wishlist(just one, maybe no one will ever look at it ):

1. Another tutorial on the FPS game besides the alien & the normal gun

Just an idea, i would like to see like a more 'complete work of the FPS game' with: loading, intros, movement keys setup, high score, at least 2 levels to code, health, credit screen, boss, etc.. (u know, from start to finish). I just think that it would be a great help for absolute beginners who wanna jump to it before starting to go slowly with the syntax. My idea is either the tutorial is put inside Patch 5, or just on this website

Okie, i'm done .. everybody can start to shoot me with angry words

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Codger
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Posted: 5th Apr 2003 20:01
I would like an optional switch that would force variables to be declared.
This feature (available in basic for applications ) would avoid hunting thru code for errors caused by having mis typed a variable

Cheers

Jmansr
23
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Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Apr 2003 21:44
Personally, above all. I would like my 20 FPS back. Patch 4 stole them and I cannot get them back. Have tried everything in code to retreive them but with no luck. They weren't gone in the Beta's of Patch 4 but in the final they disappeared. I don't care if they took away terrains or types but I just want my speed back

Blue Blood FX
Check it out, RIGHT NOW!
http://64.239.107.66/bluebloodsoft/
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 5th Apr 2003 21:57
@JMansr

Time to practise occlusion and optimisation then

Seriously though, some programs will take a speed hit, but none of my programs which had low FPS (ie. 60 or less) got a speed hit, only those which had VERY high FPS of 150+.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Jmansr
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Posted: 5th Apr 2003 23:10
No...

My program was running great at a goo 40 fps and now I'm lucky if it goes above 20. This is with all of my Optomizations in there. Like I said I've tried everything.

Blue Blood FX
Check it out, RIGHT NOW!
http://64.239.107.66/bluebloodsoft/
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Apr 2003 04:05
Jmansr... i'd go through the program section by section and find out what exactly is causing the huge fps drop

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th Apr 2003 04:43 Edited at: 6th Apr 2003 04:47
Do you realise the power of the tool you actually have already? In my personal opinion it's pretty darn good for the price. DBPro allowes rapid development of a decent quality product.

Sure there's issues. I have an issue with shaving every morning, but I aint posting my bitching on Gillette's forum - I meen, surely there's a disposable cure for shaving by now?

So most of all, what I really want from patch 5:

My wish list for patch 5 is that it is good enough to stop all the bitchin' and moanin' on these boards.

I could come to these boards and argue that my programs don't run fast enough and demand a patch to fix it. Or I could try and isolate the speed problem within my program, and use the wealth of knowledge on these boards to help me resolve the issue once it is isolated.

Of course - I don't actually suffer a speed problem myself in my games. I just come here to try and help and ocassionally ask a question.....

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Jmansr
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Posted: 6th Apr 2003 11:10 Edited at: 6th Apr 2003 11:12
Raven...

I have.. I have narrowed it down to what is causeing it. It's the Objects in my Level. There's about 80. I thought patch 4 was gunna help when I have many objects but it onnie went slower. Even once I take those out it onnie runs at about 30. Which is still 10 less then my orginal 40 which had it all nice and layed out. I'm still trying everday to narrow it down further so I can find the problem. But I don't think it's my code as A) It was working better in Patch 3 and Patch 4 magically put a harpoon threw it B) People have also been experiancing slow downs, but I need to narrow it down further so we can all compare our slowdown problems. But it's tedius, REMing out chucks of code. Test. Un REM. Rem New Chunk. Test. UnRem... Well you get the picture...

(P.S. REMSTART and REMEND are the two greatest commands ever for debugging LOL)

Blue Blood FX
Check it out, RIGHT NOW!
http://64.239.107.66/bluebloodsoft/
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
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Posted: 6th Apr 2003 13:19
"I could come to these boards and argue that my programs don't run fast enough and demand a patch to fix it. Or I could try and isolate the speed problem within my program, and use the wealth of knowledge on these boards to help me resolve the issue once it is isolated."

Understood, but I do have some sympathy for the many Radeon users who were outcast by Patch 4. However, what does piss me off is that there were about 10 threads for people who all had the same problem, can't everybody just read the first one and remember?

Here is a quick summary of WHY Patch 4 causes problems with your game / machine:

1) Patch 4 DOES NOT ACCEPT BINARY X files, use TEXT X instead

2) Patch 4 screws up with some Radeon GFX cards

3) The OBJECT SIZE commands now take the scale factor into account, this can/will screw up collision etc. in games where a workaround was previously implemented

4) There are issues when changing the bit depth for some people. Remember that you can ONLY do this in FULL SCREEN EXCLUSIVE mode.

5) There is increased overhead in the engine, this means that if your game did not suffer from too many objects on screen under P3.1, there will be NO speed gains.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 6th Apr 2003 13:54
Xoid - Thanks man! Simple but Effective

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Bighead
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Posted: 6th Apr 2003 20:55
I would like a "MAKE MATRIX FROM HEIGHTMAP" native command in DBP.

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