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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / A great idea for comp: Rich should take a look

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Cras
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 01:48
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Decided to post here since it seems rich reads these most.
Idea:
The objective is to program a multiplayer game, not an rpg, but one you can join and leave at any time, like an fps, and then team up with gamespay (or similar) and have see if they will host the winners game on their servers. There is some top quality stuff bein made now, and i think that some is better than the stuff hosted on gamespay right now (the free stuff that is). Just a suggestion, but it would definitely advertise darkbasic more, and expand the community, not to mention the reward of having your game hosted so people can play it online.

What do you think?
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Terabyte
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 02:34
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i like the idea. especially seen as i am working on a multiplayer [img][/img]

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..don't piss on an electric fence!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 03:09
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Would love to (have a multiplayer compo) but I do fear it's a tall order to ask for. Some people just don't have the right set-up to even test a game like that (i.e. 2 PCs!). Personally I'd rather see a "team based compo" where you HAVE to work in a team to submit a game. But anyway we'll start soliciting for ideas come the summer.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 04:40
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hmm i wonder if John would be willing to do something with DB, they've lost alot of revenue of the past year over fileplanet subscriptions and such - so might be a good idea for thier publicity as well as DBS's own

i think that a multiplayer competition is a great idea, especially if you make it a team based competition (as this would solve the problem of those without networks) ... if the team were to do this, a suggestion would be that there was an 'official' IP grabber made available. i mean yeah there are a few about but one which DBS themselves make available as not everyone knows where to get such things or howto develop them

i'm quite surprised it wasn't a function added into Pro anyways after all the fuss kicked up with DarkBasic Enhanced with them, was one of the main reason we saw so few multiplayer games.
thought right now is too soon to be thinkingof another competition, the team are still judging the last one lol

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 04:54
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Who's John?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 04:59
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John Richmond - he's incharge of GameSpy, or is it Fileplanet ... somedays i'm not sure if he even knows
i know he's currently the one who deals with what gets advertised onto the main page of fileplanet (which explains why its got nothing there really)

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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 05:15 Edited at: 10th Apr 2003 05:16
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why it a bad Idea:MMORPG sum one will try and make one

any way i it a good ider.i keep mening to make a 20-line multiplayer game and post it that forum

--Dr 0--


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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 05:45
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I'd say something more along the lines of cool demos. Far easier to complete. They don't have to be just tech demo's either, could be story or graphic demos, I dunno.

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DangYankee
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 06:07 Edited at: 10th Apr 2003 06:36
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Heck even something simple like multi player spades or hearts I loved Mplayer spades, hated when gamespy took them over, just didn't have the feel anymore. Then you could host card games here for a show case, trust me people play cards a lot. Get more advertisment than giving away free beer (well close too it).
Also everyone in my family is networked all four of us. Thought that was normal.
I know just a pipe dream.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 06:54
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20line multiplayer game?

good luck, it takes me around 20lines just to get everything all connected with an IP detection .. let alone any real data to send lol
and if someone made an MMORPG, well good luck to them - i doubt i'd be possible within the month-3months time we get to work on our games, especially as most only have like 1hr maybe 2 after school and work to work on thier games.

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Cras
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 11:58
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the rules would be no mmorpg because gamespy cant host that type of game, (didnt you read my rules). It would have to be something you can just join and leave, not one where you have a character and level it or advance in quests etc.
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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 14:05
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@Rich

Is it possible to run two instances of the same multiplayer program on a PC at once? - If so then 2PCs isn't a requirement.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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TheCyborg
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 14:11
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@Rob K

Yes it is. As IP just enter "localhost" or your true IP. I did this with a chat program i once wrote.

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Cras
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 14:33
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thats just sad, do you not have friends who would test it lol
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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 14:46
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I'm pretty sure sending a game to your friend for a test run isn't the best option and most certainly not the fastest. Running 2 instances of the game and using your 127.0.0.1 IP sounds like it'd work fine.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 16:40
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@Maniac

Yes, but you can't expect your friends to bring their PC over to your house every time you want to test it and - you can't ask them to start-up your game every time you compile a tiny little change.

In my case I have 3 PCs networked so it isn't a problem, but it is still more convenient to have both client and server running on the same PC.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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Cras
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 17:23
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you may not be able to but i have a friend who'd be happy to, quite sad really, anyway dont make such a big deal out of one post, back to the subject the compo im aware that it wouldnt be possible in the near future, but still it's an idea, and i felt like sharing it.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 18:06
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i think the point of the competition has flown over the heads of you guys...
firstly if you test a program on your HDD you need 2 instances running, this requires 2x the resources - you can't even hope to accurate have it running as fast as it should.
secondly you can't test an INTERNET multiplayer game over a network, as even the slowest home networks ping at 10ms which compaired to ADSL 30ms DSL 100ms and 56k 240ms ... well you just can't effectively test something offline.
thirdly this would be the point in making it a TEAM competition, because the other member of your team would have to have A connection to be talking to you in the first place, and if they're helping you then you don't have to sent them EXE's but just the code & shared media ... which means that sending games is far smaller.

Maniac, GameSpy supports Morrowwind & Ulitma Online, so MMORPGs are possible - however i don't think anyone could complete and workin RPG in 2months... let alone an online version

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cusoi
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@Rich:
I like your idea about the team competition. How about this: everyone who wants subscribes himselfs to the competition. After a week you can't subscribe anymore. Than you select random teams of 3 or 4 persons who have to work on a team. You could get interesting teams with people who hate eachother(Raven with some people who hates him(not me)) on the forum and than have to make a game togheter. That would be fun.

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Cras
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 20:01
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RTSpider: hehe that is an idea

Raven: Completely agree with the offline testing stuff. My comp takes a hammering playing my retro game. Probably cos its so badly made. I think the most complicated command is 'if'.
About the gamespy thing, oh, i never knew that because the only mmorpg i have played was diablo 2. I was just thinking that an mmorpg is only good when its popular whereas a quick fps game or something can be played whenevr as long as you have a few peopl online.

Maybe i shouldnt have posted this so soon after the last compo. It seems that everyone is expecting this comp just around the corner.
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BoB Vila
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RTS, random teams would definatly take the chore out of finding people. But I don't think it would be a good idea to have teams with people who can't get along. That would almost make the competition more about "learning to play well with others" rather than being about the games.

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BoB Vila
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Actually, I have a good idea for a MMOG for the 20 lines comp. the only question is, will DBS host the server .

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Cras
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well if they are going to be lame enough to not get along in a team project just because of petty disputes then they dont deserve to win. Random means random, if they have been teamed with people they dont like, too bad. Id be more concerned with the clueless people who cant program entering and being teamed with them.
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Shadow Robert
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BoB if you can pull of an MMOG in only 20lines then i think i can get you a host for it simply for the achievement.

i agree with manic, if i don't like someone but i'm put in a group with them thats no reason to be pathetic about everything - i mean it's a good lesson for many user around here when they actually get into the industry. Not every company is formed like DBS where everyone is mates to start with ... sometimes you get people who you'd just like to smack in the mouth, repeatedly, until they start to cry.
i like the idea of random teams, only problem would be would be if some people sign up and there isn't enough people left to make the last team and a select few miss out because of this.
also the fact that we're all over the world and this would make testing hard if a team is comprised of someone from the US, UK, Russia and Australia!
it's debateable that any of them would be on at quite the same times of day.

but is an interesting prop

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Cras
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 20:35
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maybe we could state our home country so we are teamed by homland. Then it could be an international competition. Hopefully that wouldnt start a war
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Shining Moonblade
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 21:05
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Or how about a space combat flight simulator compo? We could come up with some good AI ideas with that one. (Or just integrate it into the multiplayer compo, either way....LOL)

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Cras
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lol a little bit too narrow for a compo. can you imagine judging that? play one space game, oh look, and another, and another, argh why do i have this job. lol think of the children... you should ignore that.
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IanM
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 21:56
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Well obviously, anyone teamed with me would have an unfair advantage ... or is that unfairly disadvantaged?

I don't think the random team idea will work though, coz too many will not like who they've been teamed with (either getting a newbie or ego clash etc) and that team will immediately be down one member.

There's nothing stopping team entries for existing compo's though - just make sure you have an agreement over sharing the winnings, just in case you do win.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 22:23
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lmao... just think of it, IanM - MRTATOAD - Raven - Simple
as one of the teams (^_^) see how much luck ya'll have against that

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Galiem
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Well, it COULD be done 8)

If you have a team based Compo, and use the TCP/IP DLL, you could write a multiplayer game. The team would simply work together to test the multiplayer aspect of it.

What would be truly great is to see the entire DBPro community working together on one project, but would be hard to pull off. Would have to be really organized.

Of course, the idea of a deal with gamespay to actually put a game out there is great! It would get one team's game some exposure, which I am certain would have everyone working FAST to get a game up and running!

By the way, my GUI creation program is well under way. I have successfully devised a template for rendering any GUI you could possibly come up with, all based on dynamic variables and memblocks. I'm getting really excited about getting it finished!

Of course, it may take a little more time than I anticipated... Considering the algorythms I find myself writing, while struggling to keep everything as open and dynamic as possible, while allowing the user to have full control... PHEW! *Wipes brow* It's getting hardcore!

If the program is complete in time for the competition, I would be more than happy to let a team use it! This program allows for the creation of GUIs with more room for customization than the WIndows GUI, without sacrificing any functionality.

I would so love to give a snippet of one of these algorythms, but the best magicians never reveal their secrets 8) I gotta be especially careful, or I could reveal the format my DRDBMS is going to run under 8)

Dernit! Someone stop me from typing before I make another long post!

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IanM
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 22:54
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*shudder*
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Cras
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lol i dont think you need to worry, even if this compo ever went ahead it wouldnt be for about a year... *sigh* such a shame, im commin up with an idea right now, but guess what, as you noticed i hate to moan, i have no db pro because of amazon, so i cant develop it yet.
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Dave J
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Random teams by country sounds like it would work, you could easily get on at the same times to work things out. And just like Raven said, just because you aren't getting along with a member doesn't mean you're going to stop, are you going to quit your job because you don't like your co-worker?

On the other hand, if it weren't random then finding teams could be incredibly hard for some people. Especially the newbies. I know if I were teamed up with a newbie randomly then I'd put in the effort to teach him and help him out so we can make a good entry.

In my opinion, the whole idea is great.

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IanM
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But this *is* a voluntary thing, not your livelyhood. If you don't like who you're partnered with, you can just walk away, or squeeze them out.
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OzBot
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I personally would not want to be partnered up with someone who is not up to the ability I expect. My mate and I work well together, I don't think I would like to be randomized into a team I might not be happy with. I think that working with a team you are not happy with isn't going to produce the same results as a team you are happy with.
Why not have the choice of selecting your own teams or if you prefer random teams.
If you have a team you know than enter that team, if however you can't get a team than the team will be randomized for you and then everyone is happy, or?

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TheCyborg
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I don't think that random teams by country is a good idea. I have not seen any persons (except myself) from Denmark. Random teams would be fun. But I rather wanna choose my own pals to team up.

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Cras
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lol you cant have some random and some not, thats unfair, cos you'd have a few pro teams and a few people who need to get used to each other. The comp's time limit would have to cater for the fact that people have to get to know each other and think up a project between them.
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cusoi
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There have been talked much about my idea

But you don't have to choose teams by country, you can choose teams by timezone. Denmark is in the same timezone as the Netherlands, France, Belgium, Germany so I think that's not a real problem.

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Dr OcCuLt
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as for timezone you do`t have to be the same time zome UK and spain just one hour a hend of Netherlands.it just if you live in australia and rest of the teams in europe.

as for random teams no one point out the main floor whit is that you may get 4 good programers and on arts or 4 arts and no programers.

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OzBot
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Maniac
That was just a suggestion, as far as I am concerned, I want to see just how good DarkBasic games can be. I am sure some games will be made better if teams were made to be more average, but then the games might be more average and I want to see great things.
What’s wrong with having a few pro teams and a few non pro teams? I have only ever made one game before (for the retro comp) and I am sure lots of people had more experience than me but I entered anyway, I am not afraid to lose.
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UberTuba
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maybe you could have say just 8 teams, but big ones, so its more even. That would mean that rich has stuff 2 show made by big teams.
So the 8 games would all be xelent. Random teams would work this way
as ur always gonna have artists and modellers. Maybe each of the teams has their own forums to communicate.

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Cras
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well i dunno, all too complicated, having huge teams means people would get left out and thats no fun. I think on the application form you could name a person you would like to be put with, and as long a he puts you you will be in the same team with other random people. That way you dont get full teams made, but you at least know one member. then it would be easy to settle down into teams.
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cusoi
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I don't see the problem. Well, not a big problem. A competition for me is fun. Winning does matter, but not that much. I think it's just great fun if you would get in a random team. That's a realistic thing. If you would be programming a game in a profesional company, you will also be in a team, and you can't choose that team. And I don't think you can have a team compo without every team is random, because of the unfair advantages for the not random teams.

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Cras
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i agree entirely, thats pretty much all i have to say, lets hope its not a conversation killer.
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Shadow Robert
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OcCult were all here to program and we can all do simple art if we need to ... the idea is a good one.
i mean how petty would you have to be to give up on working on a game, the reason that we'd all be entering the compeition for just because you don't like someone.

you don't have to like someone to respect thier talents, and i think it'd be a fantastic chance to see how many people can handle that now - because if you can't hack it when you have the choice of walking away from the project, what chance will you have when your being paid to play nice and expect to produce professional results?
i've noticed so many of the older users who are professional are the freelance and lonewolf people ... very few even understand the basics of howto get along. It would be a great character building experience for them as well as the rest of us.

for myself i don't care who the hell i'm teamed up with, i mean if anyone remember about 3years ago myself and moondog barely liked each other, we still worked on the same team for about 6months ... and we are now pretty cool with each other.

just because you're not getting paid there and then, doesn't mean you're not working for
A) to produce somethng that everyone can look at and say "WOW!" and
B) there is always a prize to competitions which oftenly means that people will work hard to get something, no matter how trival.

if the competitions prize was to say, be a professional development team for a year ... say those who win get $40,000 to continue developing thier winning title with a retail deal assured.
i'm not sure how many of you would say "well i dunno, i don't really like this guy so i think i'll pass!"

that isn't likely to happen, but i'm just saying that the only think that is stopping certain members wanting to be in certain teams is the fact that they're being quite petty - and to me it isn't the fact of who i'm working with but the project i'm working on.

The ONLY reason i would stop working with someone on a team is if they didn't pull thier weight, and acted like a supervisor who felt that doing no work and organising everyone was enough.
i'd expect everyone to do thier best and put in valid work rather than just looking pretty - but i mean i'm sure everyone would get pissed off with someone like that.

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Cras
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well i think your idea of a prize is a little exaggerated lol. would be nice tho, id certainly work my ass off for that, although i work my ass of neway so hey
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cusoi
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I agree. Working with someone is always fun, you could also learn from a person how he does code and how he makes a game. It would be a very interesting project.

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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 12th Apr 2003 03:30
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lol the prize was suppose to be something alot bigger than your likely to see (although the Amature Games Development Commision holds a yearly competition which does actually give that kinda prize away) - it was just to make a point that i think there are alot of shallow users around here, that if they think the point of joining competitions is purely for the payoff then they're in the wrong field and need to go back to whatever they were doing before.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Dave J
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23
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Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 12th Apr 2003 08:02
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Exactly

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Cras
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Joined: 15th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Apr 2003 12:29
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i see the payoff as motivation. i would make a game reguardless of the payoff, however the payoff would incourage me to put long nights into it since there is a reason for doing it. The games ive made previously i havent even publically announced. Ive deleted them all now. I wasn't ever to keen on making them because there was no reason to it. I think you could see the payoff as a wage more than i prize. Then it would be realistic to say that people work tfor thier wages so they dont get sacked. However even if your wage isnt that great you should still try your hardest or if your concerned you might get sacked cos the game isnt up to scratch.
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