Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

AppGameKit Classic Chat / TGC Newsletter

Author
Message
The Daddy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Jan 2009
Location: Essex
Posted: 2nd Aug 2014 01:06
Link
Very sad....


Finally a newsletter just for FPSCR....what is there for AppGameKit is so small compared to content for FPSCR that it may as well be in small print 'on the back page' which technically it is!

Clear to see what is favoured here!

www.bitmanip.com
All the juicy you could ever dream of!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
ThrOtherJoJo
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Mar 2012
Location: California
Posted: 2nd Aug 2014 04:19
Link
I don't think it's so sad. Sometimes things like this happens.

I don't think FPSCR is favored, its just that it's new and it's what the company wants to push right now.

When AppGameKit reaches completion and get those features everyone so desperately wants, then that will be front and center.

If you look over the past newsletters, there were plenty of AppGameKit coverage.

I look at it like this. Every product is going to get its deserved attention from one time to the next.

Prove Your Worthiness
KG2Entertainment.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Naphier
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2010
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posted: 2nd Aug 2014 10:23
Link
There is a lot of FPSCR coverage, but there's an article by me for AppGameKit, an article about the v2 IDE, and an article about Rush To Adventure. Last month had just about the same amount of AppGameKit stuff and the month before was pretty heavy with it due to the competition. Now there's a competition for FPSCR. The newsletter, in my opinion, is pretty fairly balanced.

It would always be nice to have more AppGameKit material and I'm sure Batvink would do his best to fit it in. Do you have suggestions on what you'd like to see more of?

Napland Games - Shape Time - Wordspionage - dFenz Facebook
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 2nd Aug 2014 11:40
Link
There isn't a lot of AppGameKit news at the moment. We are still awaiting alpha 4. Which will be another leap forward for AGK2. Unless we make the news ourselves, there's nothing to put into the newsletter.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
fog
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2003
Location: Newcastle, England
Posted: 2nd Aug 2014 16:19
Link
TGC are lucky people haven't kicked up more of a fuss over lack of AppGameKit updates TBH considering the Kickstarter funding.

With the proliferation of social media the quickest way to kill a company these days is poor communication.

Last time we complained we were promised things would change, we'd get daily updates, and yet we've had one minor update in a month now.

The AppGameKit blog Rick promised 5 months ago, surprise surprise, never materialised. It's DBPro all over again.

And let's be honest, if progress was being made on AppGameKit then they would be shouting about it, so you can make your own minds up how much time is actually being spent on it.

It's frustrating, but I'm sure Rick will be along again soon to tell us not to worry and things will change. Again.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 00:43 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2014 00:46
Link
i have to agree 100% on Fog here. agk is moving way too slow

that's why there i no news to report
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 03:08
Link
Coding for you guys is stressful. The Geany IDE is a 50,000+ line project that I've never seen before. Thankfully syntax highlighting, code folding, and auto complete were easy to convert for AppGameKit, but adding a new project system taught me a lot about what I can and can't do without breaking it. I may not be the fastest programmer in the world but I won't rest until the features that were promised are completed, and bug free. The new compiler should give you an example of the quality level I'm aiming for here.

I can't give you a blog or daily updates, it feels like someone is breathing down my neck, but I will try to keep up the weekly updates. Rick is away until the middle of August so I'll make some forum posts in his place.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
swissolo
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Jan 2010
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 06:39
Link
Thanks Paul Don't let the updates get in the way of progress. Just enough to let us know something is happening. I don't think the concern really rides on you as an individual, but on the fact that you're a 1 man team. You can only do so much!

Back to top
Profile PM
Zwarteziel
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jan 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 10:54
Link
Yes, thank you Paul. I'm actually very happy with the current way in which updates are communicated weekly and the quality you are aiming for. The new compiler was a great achievement and I am sure the new IDE will function just as well.

Once AppGameKit V2 is more complete and released, I'm sure the newsletter section will expand as well. Who knows, with a product that offers both broad functionality and stability, the section might expand to the size the DBPro-section had before.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 11:23
Link
I read the newsletters, Kickstarter and the blog thread and I do not think there is a lack of updates. I feel that I know what Paul is working on all the time and I am happy that we are moving forward. I think Alpha 4 is going to be amazing. And amazing takes time.

One should keep in mind that a week is a long time for anything you are waiting for. And then each day beyond those 7 days is a long time. Combine that with AGK2 being delayed as it is and all the attention FPSCR is getting. It is no wonder people get frustrated. Because we all are emotionally invested in AGK.

I think Paul is doing a great job. Under a lot of pressure no doubt. I believe a more official blog page with updates on a specific day every week would calm people down. As many say, it doesn't have to be many lines each week. Just a few comments on what's going on. I think the all in one place model is the best solution. Most people do not follow all possible sources for information. And Paul: You should be able to write those updates yourself if Rick is not.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
lilpissywilly
AGK Developer
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2010
Location: Office Chair
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 11:35 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2014 11:36
Link
I don't think anyone is blaming you for AGKv2 coming along slowly Paul. I think most people feel just having one dev on such a project is a tad on the light side.

And I don't think you should have to report everything you do to the community, you should be able to get your head down and work. Someone else should (and sometimes is) keep us updated.

My hovercraft is full of eels
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
JimHawkins
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 12:51
Link
I think that the problem is that amateurs want jam now, and professionals would rather wait 6 months for really reliable jam. As I know from my aged and vast experience, having more than one programmer on a project does not necessarily halve the development, and sometimes doubles it or more.

However - mucking about with the IDE does not strike me as what Paul should be focused on. That should be somebody else's job while he deals with core development. IMHO.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Back to top
Profile PM Website
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 13:29
Link
I agree Jim.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
fog
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2003
Location: Newcastle, England
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 17:42
Link
@Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Firstly I want to make clear nothing I said was aimed at the development of AGK. We are all coders and should have much respect for what you have done with it.

Also I don't have a problem using AppGameKit itself and, like Jim said, I'm happy waiting for things to be done right. (As a Tier2 user we've effectively had no updates in 5 months so we are being patient.)

As I said previously, all we want is openness and better communication and it's frustrating that we have to keep pushing for it.

Look at the opening line from the V2 blog thread...

Quote: "Hi, in the spirit of openness and transparency we're now publishing the daily progress of App Game Kit 2 Development. For now we'll post into this message, longer term we'll setup a proper Blog on the main AppGameKit site."

"openness and transparency"? "daily progress"? "a proper Blog"?

Nobody really expects a daily blog post, but if you post something like that then you can't blame people for having certain, basic expectations.



Hell while I'm on a rant

I enjoy coding in AppGameKit and would love to see it become a huge success, but sometimes I feel like we want that more than TGC themselves.

There's seemingly little effort made to get the word out there, no regular Twitter or orchestrated social media updates, youtube demos etc. eg. Where are the Twitter posts every time someone releases something noteworthy made with AppGameKit? A twitter post takes seconds, no excuses.

The official AppGameKit website is never updated, with no mention of AGK2 that I can see, so anyone interested and going there for information will think AppGameKit is dead and pick a different language. And why doesn't the site promote some of the better and more successful AppGameKit Apps? It's the first thing any potential user looks for.

It's really basic stuff.

TGC's marketing, publicity and communication are straight out of 1998. Why is an internet based company so afraid to embrace and exploit the benefits of the modern internet? And AppGameKit is a good product, so why are you seemingly so afraid to shout about it?

Yours frustrated,
Chris.

tldr: check out this thread, see how little has changed in 10 years and how spookily familiar it all sounds right down to FPSC...

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=32320&p=0

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 18:32
Link
Quote: "I enjoy coding in AppGameKit and would love to see it become a huge success, but sometimes I feel like we want that more than TGC themselves.

There's seemingly little effort made to get the word out there, no regular Twitter or orchestrated social media updates, youtube demos etc. eg. Where are the Twitter posts every time someone releases something noteworthy made with AppGameKit? A twitter post takes seconds, no excuses.

The official AppGameKit website is never updated, with no mention of AGK2 that I can see, so anyone interested and going there for information will think AppGameKit is dead and pick a different language. And why doesn't the site promote some of the better and more successful AppGameKit Apps? It's the first thing any potential user looks for."


I agree 100%! PR work is so important.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
xCept
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 19:33
Link
Personally, I just wish V2 would have been released with all new features 100% completed and tested including working templates and interpreters across Win/Mac/iOS/Android/Ouya, before all of this non-crucial work began on a new compiler and IDE. This would have allowed developers to at least build and deploy new V2 apps with the flawed but perfectly usable IDE and compiler of V1, and would have gotten most of us off Paul's back for awhile

We are now an entire year beyond when the Kickstarter was funded, and 8-10 months beyond the originally expected delivery dates of all the V2 features. I don't think anyone has successfully deployed a V2 app to iOS/Mac or most platforms as a result of the incomplete core and lack of proper templates or interpreters. When I last tried with alpha 3 the V2 features did not work on iOS and even getting anything to compile for non-Windows was more than a headache.

I've backed FPSC:R as well as AppGameKit V2 and most other TGC products since DB Classic days. There is no question that FPSC:R is currently getting far more preferential treatment than AppGameKit including weekly newsletters, daily blog updates and so on. This is OK but I still see so much more potential in AppGameKit V2 beyond the tiny niche group of those wishing to create only FPS games. I've had to use different competing products for numerous apps this year and was holding off on another project waiting for a proper V2 but alas have to use something else again because of the incompleteness of V2.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rickynzx
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Dec 2011
Location: Troon, Scotland
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 20:31
Link
I would like to see some tutorials in the newsletter, like how to use IAP, facebook and how to setup multiplayer games.

i think facebook integration is a must, even if it is just to like your app, as this would make a lot of people aware of your app.

lots of players like the challenge of multiplayer games, to play with friends.

An example of online highscore systems also would be great as players would find a game more playable and challenging if they can see how well other players have done and have scores to beat with maybe a chance of seeing their name on a high score list.


Piggy Bank Tracker 2 Touch A Block  Love Calculator Kcal Calc Website
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 20:37
Link
Quote: "Personally, I just wish V2 would have been released with all new features 100% completed and tested including working templates and interpreters across Win/Mac/iOS/Android/Ouya, before all of this non-crucial work began on a new compiler and IDE."


The new compiler is definitely crucial. It has fixed a lot of T1 bugs as well as added lots of T1 features. The new IDE is also highly requested by many current users. I am fine without but it is nice to have and good for attracting new users. These are big important steps for AGK. Not saying that working templates and proper iOS/Mac support isn't.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2014 23:25
Link
Quote: "I enjoy coding in AppGameKit and would love to see it become a huge success, but sometimes I feel like we want that more than TGC themselves."


so true
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Aug 2014 00:56
Link
I see what you're saying. I'm very old school in that I like to have everything done and tested before drawing attention to it, in my mind marketing it in a big way whilst the old IDE and compiler are still out there front and center would send the wrong first impression. But you're right that the website doesn't mention version 2, I'll talk to Rick about it when he's back.

I feel that the weekly updates are a good compromise for now, they let you know what is going on without bringing in too many new people. I'm not sure how much I can say but rest assured we have a plan to put AppGameKit in front of a larger audience relatively soon.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 4th Aug 2014 11:22
Link
weekly updates are more than enough, daily updates is asking for too much.

what we need is more frequent fixes/betas.

right now the problem is that the compiler and ide take long times to do well, so t2 users are left a bit on the side

also with the new ide, would it be possible to write code in c++ and call a line compiler to create an exe and apk? some people suggested a way how to do this...
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Naphier
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2010
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posted: 5th Aug 2014 05:28
Link
@bjadams - you can call the command line, Google search will tell you how. BUT it isn't a great way to go because you need a lot more options. Unity's editor has it pretty well integrated to click and build the APK, but you need to pay for plugins for Facebook, IAP, and other extensions that AppGameKit has built-in. However, it would be great if AppGameKit built an interface like Unity's build system for Android and xCode.

Napland Games - Shape Time - Wordspionage - dFenz Facebook
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bjadams
AGK Backer
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Mar 2008
Location:
Posted: 5th Aug 2014 17:50
Link
that's what i meant Naphier.

in the long run, doing this new IDE should allow for building an apk and an ipa from within the ide itself, and have the basic info, icons, splash screens, input in an interface.

Delphi does this too, it connects to a small server running on mac, and calls command line tools on the mac side to build an ipa from the delphi ide on windows! for android this is simpler as it all happens on pc. if delphi and unity can do this, why not agk

i hope the AppGameKit devs will consider these options for T2 too
Back to top
Profile PM Email
IronGiant
AGK Bronze Backer
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2012
Location: the great state of madness
Posted: 5th Aug 2014 18:45 Edited at: 5th Aug 2014 19:47
Link
glad FPSCR is getting the press it deserves. Nothing makes me happier than to see cool tools getting used.

Well cept sex with my gf, but that's hardly a discussion for a forum chat now is it? anyways..

As for AppGameKit 4 not being done at this time and point. I too wish it was in my hands now,

But I'm also a programmer, and understand the complexity of an IDE Language package that covers more than one machine and am willing to give Paul a break on riding his ass about it.

Some of You seem to think these tools just fall outta the sky and are programmed with the power of your mind alone, and not hard won coding over thousands of bugs that must be ironed out.

And the cost of AppGameKit, 60 bucks? show me one damn program thats only 60 bucks and covers PC, , Iphone and Droid.

I paid the full price for AppGameKit ($111) back when it first came out, and would do it again tomorrow because as I see it, its the most bang for my bucks,

I own Game Maker also, but each plug in for Game Maker drives the cost way up, and its a hog in terms of memory use when on a phone.
Plus I'm not a clicky type person, rather code than drag stuff.

Then you have Unity, Powerful as hell but a pain to do any simple games in, By the time you get done adding assets, clicking buttons and figuring out how it all links together, you could have a nice AppGameKit game demo up and running.

Go Ahead!!, show me links to your amazing Unity creations. It's just like C++, everyone brags about how great C++ is, yet few people have actually made anything useful with it unless they work for a large game company.

Look, I'm not tryin to bust anyone balls here. I'm just saying, I'm sure Paul is working hard as hell on AGK. I like what they've done so far in it.

Nothing and I mean nothing in AppGameKit price range can do what it does. and if you look at some of the great games some of you people have put out, you can plainly see the power of this Great language/ game making system!

SO go out, write more bad assed AppGameKit games, use whats there now, and lets stop busting Paul's nads, the man is working his ass off for us, lets show him out gratitude instead of our Disrespect.

And Paul, thank you and the rest of the Team at TGC for a great language. It's the main one I use now, and I've yet to find something in 2D that I wanted to do that AppGameKit couldnt.

Though built in high speed parallax tile mapping would be a nice bonus, hint hint, but all in all I'm happy with AppGameKit, and I trust in the near future AppGameKit 4 will be worth waiting for,

until then , its back to my projects,

Amazingly, someone has yet to invent a computer language that programs itself while you tell it the kinda game you want, damn wouldnt that be nice... think it, make it, cash in..

I keep thinkin of Scotty talking to the mouse on that Star Trek movie with the whales.

So peace out, happy programming,

and please put your tray tables in their original upright position when the flight is over,

and thank you for flying TGC airlines, we hope you had a nice flight...

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
Back to top
Profile PM
JimHawkins
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 5th Aug 2014 18:52 Edited at: 5th Aug 2014 18:53
Link
I could say a lot on this subject, but won't!

If TGC had done what Embarcadero did to generate the iOS back end and used LLVM they could have eliminated bytecode completely and had a unified native solution. I fully expect Delphi to use LLVM for all code production inside a couple of years. And that's saying something, because Borland and its successors have produced excellent compilers going back to Turbo Pascal in 1983, which revolutionised development on PCs.

Many of the problems of the Basic system could be eliminated by adding a Lua interface. More advanced users could then create or pull in Lua fragments to add list processing or a zillion other fragments without the Basic compiler having to do any heavy-lifting at all.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Jambo B
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Sep 2009
Location: The Pit
Posted: 8th Aug 2014 02:14
Link
@IronGiant - well said, sir. +1 from over here.

I have been programming for many years off and on (and even managed to sell a few bits and bobs here and there ).

For creating 'serious' applications, I use C++ - the Embarcadero flavour.

For games, I'm completely sold on AGK. I'm off work for a few weeks so I've spent today coding and I have properly enjoyed myself! AppGameKit is a joy to use. As with any programming language, there are a few pitfalls and workarounds which you learn as you go along - the nature of the beast, as they say.

I wrote a simple educational game in C++ a few years ago. I managed to finish it, but had to write my own classes to wrap around DirectX. Wrangling DX took longer to do than to write the actual game which used it!

Cheers all,

James
Back to top
Profile PM
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-04-27 03:25:58
Your offset time is: 2024-04-27 03:25:58