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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / You wanted to know what is being done - here it is...

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 15:38 Edited at: 28th May 2004 15:58
Hi,

Over this past week we (TGC) have been re-evaluating the way in which things are going to be handled from this point on. This relates to pretty much all facets of development and associated information. There are some significant changes coming, so.. here we go... (sorry for the use of caps, but I need you to make sure you read this correctly!)

1) Lee is working exclusively on FPS Creator at the moment, getting it ready for a trade show in Monte Carlo in the middle of June. There will be no deviation from this. HOWEVER upon his return, he and Mike will sit down and work on NOTHING BUT DBPro bug fixes for a limited period of time. No new functionality (other than in the debugger), just pure bug fixes. At the end of this development period we will release Upgrade 5.4. This process will _start_ on June 21st.

2) After 5.4 is released, Lee will return exclusively to FPS Creator. We have publisher deadlines to meet and a lot of work still to do, so this is unavoidable... but ...

... Mike will remain on DBPro Upgrades - not enhancement packs, not new functions - just pure bug fixing upgrades. As a company we have agreed that he will split his time evenly between doing nothing but fixing bugs in DBPro and other direct revenue generating work. That means DBPro will be worked on every single day (depending on how he chooses to do it, perhaps 3 days on, 2 days off) but the net result is the same: frequent updates. Also remember - we've said it before and we'll say it again, but Lee working on FPS Creator will also result in bug fixes in DBPro and optimisations to the compiler. It is an inevitable side effect of building such a massive application with DBPro technology. However you will no longer have to wait until FPSC is released to benefit from all of this.

3) Mike will have sole control over how often he releases the Upgrades and BETAS of them. We are going to make every single beta for each Upgrade PUBLIC for anyone to download. The release rate of this is entirely up to Mike, but could be as frequent as he wishes (daily, weekly, bi-weekly, etc).

4) After a suitable burning-in period a beta will be turned into a Point Release for DBPro. I.e. Upgrade 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, etc. We will not release more than 1 point release per month - we feel it would be too confusing for our newer customers, but there is no limit on the number of point-release BETAs we will kick out the door. There is no set schedule between releases, it is as we (and you) are happy with them.

5) The Bug Report forum here is going to be the CENTRAL place where we collect (and fix) bugs from. If it's not reported in there, we don't and won't know about it. I will be making a few modifications to it as discussed on DBDN, but essentially it'll be the core area where bugs should go into and come out of fixed.

6) We are closing down DBDN. This has been discussed internally for months now and now the current members agree it is the best course of action. DBDN served its purpose well at the time, but our community is MUCH larger now and far more diverse so it's time to open things up. The net result of this is:

a) All of the developer diaries (Lee, Mike, Rich and Raveys new one) will now be PUBLIC - including all of the previous entries and all future ones. Lee and Mike both update their diary virtually daily, so it will give you an instant feeling as to what the hell is going on, as well as sneak shots of FPSC development and whatever Mike is doing to DBPro at the time. I'm pretty bad at updating my diary! but with increased activity here (see below re: book) I'll change this fact. Ravey will start a new diary also.

b) All of the DBDN showcase pictures will be merged with the Developer Network site here, so will be public. Simon will keep supplying these as and when he can.

c) All the beta versions of software we will release - will be public. Previous beta releases on DBDN will be removed.

d) We're still talking about how to handle the forum - the DBDNers like the fact you don't get spammed to death in there, but equally we don't want to promote segregation in the community forums any further. So a current plan is to have a board here for "Old Timer" people, i.e. those who have been around a while - anyone new to the forums will not be able to post, only to read. Those of you who've been here say 1 year + will have full write access (and those migrating from DBDN also). This idea is still being fleshed out and isn't set in stone.

7) We are completely overhauling the DBPro documentation and this is how: As a direct result of feedback from the first survey we realised there is an overwhelming need for a decent DBPro dedicated book. A real guts 'n glory affair that gives you EVERY single command, with complete proper working syntax, parameter counts, example code, descriptions and generally all the things a good reference manual should have.

We shortlisted a few co-authors to work with me, contacted 2 and the project is now very well underway and has been for a while now.

So how does this effect DBPro? After all, I said we're writing a book - so surely it'll cost money? Well - yes and no.

We soon found out that we could structure the book in such a way so that for every single command we had a core set of information. Imagine if you will the page flowing from top to bottom as such:

1. Command Name - Version number it was introduced in
2. Exact (and correct!) Syntax
3. Full arguments (if relevant) that actually explain what you should be passing to a command/function
4. Return value - fully explained
5. Source Code Example - yes, for EVERY single command
6. Description - a summary of what the command does and how you should use it.
7. Further Examples - extended source code examples, various options, etc.
8. Detailed Description - a comprehensive explanation of the command, what it does, how it works, theory behind it, etc.
9. "See Also" - links to other relevant commands.

While preparing the template I quickly realised that actually - what we had here was a new set of DBPro help files in the making AND a book.

So this is how it's going to go.. the DBPro help files are going to be recompiled into a fully indexed searchable CHM format and include all of the information listed above from 1 through to 6. The printed book will contain that plus all the juicy extra details 7 through to 9.

Using this technique it means the three of us are able to kill two birds with one (very large!) stone. At the end we'll have a comprehensive guide to DBPro AND a brand new set of help files that not only look the business, but really explain what the hell is going on. Needless to say they will be free of charge and included in all Updates from there on. There is no timescale for completion of the book, as you can appreciate it is a VERY large task - over 1117 commands to document infact, but progress is steady and constant.

So to summarise:

1) Worklogs/Diaries/Showcase will be open to all via the Dev Net site
2) Upgrade 5.4 released end of June, work starts June 21st on it.
3) On-going upgrade *betas* released as often as possible from then on, maybe daily, weekly, montly, whatever - its up to Mike - but you can read his diary to know the score
4) Point-release Upgrades every 1 to 2 months, but again depending on Mike.
5) Bug Report forum to be THE central place this all happens from.
6) New DBPro Help files as a result of the WIP printed book.

This is what is happening right now. We had been discussing all of the above internally as a team for a while, but the recent furore on the forums gave us the evidence we needed to actually kick this whole process into action - so, that is how it's going to be from June 21st onwards.

Cheers,

Rich

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 28th May 2004 16:13
AWESOME!
It is so good to hear that. This is probably the BEST thing that I have EVER read on the forums, and I've been here since `99.

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Bangla
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Posted: 28th May 2004 16:18
It's good enough to make a grown man cry!
Absolutely wicked!

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AramusM
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Posted: 28th May 2004 16:26
5.3 coming out soon then? or being merged into 5.4? or is 5.3 just the online stuff that has been mentioned?
TheSquid
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Posted: 28th May 2004 16:45
I haven't read the entire post yet, but from bullet point number 1, all I can say is, THANK YOU. All most of us has wanted was to be informed.
walaber
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Posted: 28th May 2004 16:51
I'm pretty sure 5.3 will still be coming out first, but it should soon be followed by 5.4, the "big super ultimate bug fix update"

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Vues3d on Kalimee
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:00
So.. this is a GOOD news!!!!!
...

Guido
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:10
5.3 will be out first AFAIK and yes, it's a TGC Online release only. 5.4 isn't going to be a "big" super dooper bug fix, but it WILL fix bugs only, as many of them as is possible in the time allocated - and it's a great starting point from which Mike will continue.

Cheers,

Rich

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
adr
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:15
*adr high-fives all the TGC team.

You know that this is a good approach... +10 points for TGC.

If anyone says something bad now, I will slap them. Personally.

If you were MEANT to understand it, we wouldn't have called it 'code'
spooky
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:35
Very well explained and should be applauded by the whole community.

** sound of manic clapping going on all around **

Clears up all the rumours and nagging doubts that most people had.

Only concern that has not been mentioned that I personally would like the answer to is this talk of online activation for DBPro in future patches. Not a problem for most people but I have a desktop pc and a laptop pc. I would like to run DBPro on both machines without buying another copy! It has also been said by other users that their DB machine may not have an internet connection and so some sort of manual activation is required.


Boo!
Dave J
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:35
Good work, this is what everyone wanted and TGC are now starting to look and act like a business rather then a group of guys slapping products together.

On the other hand, did anyone get a negative vibe from the title of this thread? It sort of had this "Well, you're getting what you wanted" sarcastic sound to it but in a bad sort of way. Don't look at me like that! I am crazy y'know.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:45
Spooky - you can activate as many PCs as you like, there is no restriction. They *will* need to have an Internet connection though at the point at which they are activated - after that point you can disconnect them again. There isn't a "manual" work around for this, sorry - but the internet connection isn't something that needs to be always available - just when you activate.

Exeat - You are crazy, yes Don't try to read so deep into 11 little words on a screen, because that's all they are. I think your perception is the wrong way around, people see us as a faceless business, not as the guys who are "slapping" products together, which this will address.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Ideajuice
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:46
Bravo!

It's clear that you recognize where the biggest problems are, and that you have a plan well in progress to address them. Change is never the easiest course to take, and I applaud you for the courage it must have taken to make these decisions. I'm certain that you won't regret any of them.

Good on you all, and best wishes for speedy progress and a big boost in sales!

PS - you already have a customer for the book even once the help files are up to snuff

E Unibus Plurum
Dave J
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:50 Edited at: 28th May 2004 17:56
Quote: "Exeat - You are crazy, yes Don't try to read so deep into 11 little words on a screen, because that's all they are. I think your perception is the wrong way around, people see us as a faceless business, not as the guys who are "slapping" products together, which this will address."


It's late down here.

Actually I know what you mean. People think of you as a company that's just focusing on the money-making products and not caring what the users want. My statement was referring to the actual quality of the products in terms of bugs and the way you operate, a business usually doesn't have the structure you guys do which it looks like you are slowly building into something stronger, more effective and more effecient.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:10
All businesses focus on making money (at least, for their sake I hope they do!) and I must say that it's only because that is what we've done - and done so well - that we are in a position today to be able to afford for all of these changes to take place. You must remember it costs money (lots of it!) to have people working on non-revenue generating work (i.e. upgrades), I know what you'll say "more stable program = more sales", but it's a fine balance that hopefully June will go a long way to addressing.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
TheOneRing
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:19
Quote: "it costs money (lots of it!) to have people working on non-revenue generating work ... but it's a fine balance "


I agree 100%. Being a part business owner myself I know how that feels.

That being said, bravo to TGC and this most recent move. I've been a user of DarkBASIC since Classic, and I feel that with the direction you are taking the DarkBASIC franchise will move on to even greater products and growth in the future.

Visit http://www.mighty-atom.com/d-zone for the Transform-i scripting engine project.
Peter H
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:20
yay! i take back my plan to drop a nuke on the TGC volcano


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Mussi
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:22
Good to hear, you guys really should make more use of the community
I'd be honoured to do something for free for you guys , and I'm sure there are many others that would .



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Dave J
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:27 Edited at: 28th May 2004 18:28
Quote: "All businesses focus on making money (at least, for their sake I hope they do!) and I must say that it's only because that is what we've done - and done so well - that we are in a position today to be able to afford for all of these changes to take place. You must remember it costs money (lots of it!) to have people working on non-revenue generating work (i.e. upgrades), I know what you'll say "more stable program = more sales", but it's a fine balance that hopefully June will go a long way to addressing.
"


Hence my reason for explaining that very same point in the other much debated topic, no money = no upgrades at all, everyone should understand that. But you must remember that previous products have a large impact on new venture capitals, a huge key to success is relying on past customers to continue to invest in your new products and if they're not satisfied with the previous product they bought then they're more then likely to have a second thought before buying again. Hence the need to have a fine balance between continuing support and stability for past products and yet still keep opportunities open for a new source of income. Fortunately this is exactly what it sounds like you're doing and my kudos goes to all of you for doing it.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
flibX0r
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Posted: 28th May 2004 19:42
w00t! me happy!

bet andy is happy now

tomazmb
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Posted: 28th May 2004 19:49
Hello,

Any news about new IDE ?

Have a nice day,

Tomaz

Why some people take programming so seriously ?
Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 19:50
Quote: "bet andy is happy now"


I wouldn't go that far - it addresses some of his concerns, but not all of them. Then again we never did this for any one person - the majority will benefit.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 19:53
Quote: "Any news about new IDE?"


Not at this point in time. We do have some plans in this regard, but they are a long way off (read: 2005). There are many quality free IDE replacements out there, so it isn't a major issue for us given the rest of the things going on here at the moment.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
MikeHart
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Posted: 28th May 2004 19:58
Great news, but this online activation thingy kills my use of DB Pro right there. My notebook where I develope on will never get an online connection. So I will dumb DB Pro.
D Man
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Posted: 28th May 2004 20:19
I hope you'll do what you're promising, otherwise you're going to be lynched.

God is real, unless declared integer.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th May 2004 20:31
Quote: "Great news, but this online activation thingy kills my use of DB Pro right there. My notebook where I develope on will never get an online connection. So I will dumb DB Pro."


dumb = dump I assume? If it's too much effort to connect your PC to the Internet for the 2 minutes it will take to activate your copy once, then there is nothing we can do about that.

Quote: "I hope you'll do what you're promising, otherwise you're going to be lynched."


We are well aware of this, but thank you for stating the obvious

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
TheAbomb12
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Posted: 28th May 2004 20:57 Edited at: 28th May 2004 21:01
brilliant; you have made me happy.
As long as I know that progress is being made, I will stick with DBpro.
But of course you need to follow through

p.s. is there anything being done about Dbpro's Compatiblity issues? DBpro does have some issues this and I would like to see it fixed a bit

Amist the Blue Skies...
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:03
Grown man cries tears of joy....

Great news and well written too. Great job TGC Team. This will no doubt increase sales as well because all new people who are thinking about buying DBP will not come to the forums and only hear complaining.

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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:03
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome? Awesome. Awesome!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:08
Erm... not to quash the idea or nothing...
but i think this should be a locked thread and have the users comments all deleted - this will allow it just to be a simple fact of knowing whats going on rather then turning into some debate because one or two users don't like the list.

just a suggestion though.

TheAbomb12
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:15
shut up raven.

let us have our happy moment.

Amist the Blue Skies...
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:19
Indeed I think that would make alot of people mad and someone would just start a flame thread right below it This way they get alot of good comments to go along with the bad (so far mostly good ).

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fog
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:19
Well I guessed you would take some action after recent events but I think this is probably more than most could have expected.

Not only does this indicate a change in TGC's confused communication policy, which was my only real gripe , but also a change in the company's short term aims. A brave move for a relatively small company, but arguably the best decision you could have made from both a business and a users perspective.

Thank you.

@Raven
I know what you mean but creating a thread, where part of the purpose is to address complaints over communication, then locking it, would be pretty contradictory.

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:47
Quote: "bet andy is happy now"

I am genuinely optimistic for DBP's future, I think all of the changes Rich has outlined are good positive steps.

Quote: "I wouldn't go that far - it addresses some of his concerns, but not all of them. Then again we never did this for any one person - the majority will benefit."

In one move you've done almost everything i've ranted about since we first crossed swords over DBDN. Yes there's a couple of things missing including one critical piece but this isn't the place to discuss that at all.

It does meen I feel confident enough to continue the race game i've been working on in DBP, but other than that I will be continuing as planned in the short term.

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate TGC on these steps, and I hope that this genuinely strengthens your company.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
MikeS
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:12
Nice one TGC!

Company is indeed taking great steps or even leaps forward.



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David T
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:20
Quote: "If it's too much effort to connect your PC to the Internet for the 2 minutes it will take to activate your copy once, then there is nothing we can do about that."


Some people aren't as priveledged as to have an internet connection, Mike has a valid point and doesn't need to have the blame thrown straight back at him.

If everybody should have a connection then Microsoft would make XP activation 'net only, but they still include telephone activation because there are peple who genuinely can't get it.

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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:23
All is cool but I'm puzzled about the idea of a 'veterans' forum... There will be topics that would interrest 'newbies' (newbies of the forum like me but I'm using DBasic since a year and a half) but they will not have the possibility to participate...

My English is not so good I'm just French
las6
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:24
Now I feel stupid.
Every single point and suggestion I made in that other topic (LOD) is here already. That's everything I hoped for.
But I'll still say that it was about time this happened.

as for the newbie/beta problem, just hide the betas under some small link so that new users won't stumble on to them too easily.

one small thing. Now that mike will be the one doing the bugfixes, does this mean he no longer works on just the 3d / object handling side of things, but the whole language? (core commands, pointers, data types) (or at least that's how I've seen it)

Old timer board is nice idea, but it just might be somewhat hard to do right.


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Rob K
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:38 Edited at: 29th May 2004 00:41
Quote: "Now that mike will be the one doing the bugfixes, does this mean he no longer works on just the 3d / object handling side of things, but the whole language?"


Nope, Lee still deals with that.

If Lee fixes the "major" compiler issues during the latter half of June then I think I can live with that. Namely:

- Debugger issues
- Compiler speed and slow startup
- Bugs with words and bytes in functions

BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games. - Plus URL download, win dialogs.
Over 140 new commands
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:40
For bugs that relate to the commands then I'll be able to work on those. Lee will still be handling things on the compiler.

Mike
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:40
Beat me to it Rob
CattleRustler
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Posted: 29th May 2004 01:43
GREAT NEWS! Best thing I have ever read from TGC about the current state of things! Congrats and kudos.

If anyone wants a Variable Watcher NOW, until the official one is fixed and released, we have one now in our plugin

click logo below...


* DBP_NETLIB_v1.2 - NOW WITH VARIABLE WATCHER! * Click Logo
DMXtra
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Posted: 29th May 2004 02:00
Yeah, I can't wait for the Daily Diaries, screenshots of work in progress and also the beta's of the work in progress.

As all of this on DBDN was sweet and really shows that TGC is a caring company and not just some money hungry company thats trying to rip you off.

People's perceptions of what TGC is and what they really are is two different things and I think all of this will be shown with their diaries.

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Martian Being
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Posted: 29th May 2004 02:24
In General:
Well this is another good step for TGC's, being here from the classic's point 7 release like others here I have watched things grow somewhat for you guys, I have always liked what you were/are aiming for and enjoyed the results, DBPRO has been a great addition, as are alot of the affiliates programs you've encountered and helped deliver to us along the way, look at GameSpace/GSLight for an example!, I believe the progress your making is good and probably contrary to most's oppinions I believe you've been pretty fast taking all into concideration, I don't doubt the new structure and additions to your software and it's community will be well recieved by the majority.

Veteran Forums:
The idea of a veterans forum is a good one and I see the reasoning behind it, at the same time a comment was made that the new people to the boards may gain some valuable knowledge from these boards which I think is a good point, could you just lock forums from posting rather than reading and posting which is relative to the time someone has been around. Another point is New-Old users, lasped or for whatever reason have to/or just re-register, would these have to wait a year before entering the vets topics or would they be recognised somehow? maybe by address or real name in your customer data base?

Blink, Blink...
Duffer
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Posted: 29th May 2004 02:32
@ Rich & Mike,

Excellent news all round... Very much agree with those who say that if all goes according to plan it will feel much less like the community are kept in the dark (albeit innocently).

Couple of questions...

1) AFAIK? for U5.3 - upgrade 5.3 in the next few weeks?
2) The new terrain commands - are they still with U5.3?
3) My ole chestnut - Save Object *.dbo - RobK has said often that only something minor needs to be tweaked to allow this command - could it be introd in U5.3? or even 5.4? As a command it would open the language up so much for me... please, please, please
4) That stuff about better & faster system for displaying 3d objects, node trees etc... that for U6 only?

Duffer.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 29th May 2004 03:10
Quote: "In one move you've done almost everything i've ranted about since we first crossed swords over DBDN. Yes there's a couple of things missing including one critical piece but this isn't the place to discuss that at all."


Andy - In my mind the biggest issue that will take the longest to address is the hardware one. We only have a limited number of PCs here and they're all pretty hot to be honest (so testing on old cards is hard). That is part of the reason for opening up the betas - the more hardware we can test on, the better for all.

Raven - in all fairness I did consider making this thread an announcement only, but I wanted to hear peoples feedback. There is always something extra that can be added to the pot.

David -
Quote: "Some people aren't as priveledged as to have an internet connection, Mike has a valid point and doesn't need to have the blame thrown straight back at him."


If they don't have an Internet connection, they're not going to even know about the update - let alone download and activate it - there will be a select few cases where this doesn't apply, but there's nothing we can do about it - we're not Microsoft, we aren't going to offer "phone activation"! If you can't connect your PC to run the updater, then you have to use the original version until such time that you can get online for 2 minutes.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Dave J
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Posted: 29th May 2004 03:11
Quote: "but i think this should be a locked thread and have the users comments all deleted - this will allow it just to be a simple fact of knowing whats going on rather then turning into some debate because one or two users don't like the list."


Hope that comment was aimed at me. o_O All my posts were discussing the mutual benefits that come from a decision like this. In fact, I see absolutely no one that doesn't like the list.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Richard Davey
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Posted: 29th May 2004 03:15
Duffer -

"1) AFAIK? for U5.3 - upgrade 5.3 in the next few weeks?"

5.3 does nothing but introduce the online activation so you can use enhanced DLLs. Ideally we release this before 5.4, so in the next few weeks - but it is possible it is merged with 5.4. Mike/Lee will have a better angle on this.

"2) The new terrain commands - are they still with U5.3?"

They will be a free download, but your copy of DBPro will need to be activated for them to work - so yes it'll require 5.3 (see above!). Lee has expressed an interest in phasing out the OLD terrain commands in the core language and replacing with the new ones - but I have no timescale for this.

"3) My ole chestnut - Save Object *.dbo - RobK has said often that only something minor needs to be tweaked to allow this command - could it be introd in U5.3? or even 5.4? As a command it would open the language up so much for me... please, please, please"

Something to ask Mike and Lee directly, but remember wa want to focus on fixes at this stage. There are many of them that have already been done (in the course of FPSC development).

"4) That stuff about better & faster system for displaying 3d objects, node trees etc... that for U6 only?"

Who knows what Upgrade it'll be in when the time comes! But yes that is an enhancement, so is further down the road at the moment. Bugs first - extras later. Hope you agree it makes sense.

Cheers,

Rich

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Richard Davey
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Posted: 29th May 2004 03:19
Quote: "Veteran Forums: The idea of a veterans forum is a good one and I see the reasoning behind it, at the same time a comment was made that the new people to the boards may gain some valuable knowledge from these boards which I think is a good point, could you just lock forums from posting rather than reading and posting which is relative to the time someone has been around."


The idea is that it's a place where "old timers" can POST, but anyone can READ. It should reduce the amount of spam and newbie trolling that goes on. But the idea is still work in progress.

Quote: "Another point is New-Old users, lasped or for whatever reason have to/or just re-register, would these have to wait a year before entering the vets topics or would they be recognised somehow? maybe by address or real name in your customer data base?"


Not really possible - the only compulsory information we have from users is their age range and email address. Everything else could be faked. If a "vet" lapses, he can use an old account again providing he can get into the email account he used to register. That's about it really

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Duffer
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Posted: 29th May 2004 03:41
@ Rich,

Thanks for the prompt and direct answers - any yes I have to agree bug fixes first and then enhancement and added functionality.

@ Mike,

Can you add anything in reply to points 1 to 3? If it really is just a little tinkering (to a real coder as opposed to a duffer!), could Save Object be introd sooner rather than later though (notwithstanding the general idea of fixes then ehnancements)? after all, the fundamental new terrain commands arent far away...?

Duffer.

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