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Geek Culture / Ouya: A game-changer or a bad investment?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 01:44
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So there's this new, Android-based opensource console called "Ouya" (pronounced "oooh-yah") being released next March. It's been completely funded (and beyond!) in LESS THAN 24 HOURS and will allow anyone to publish any game on it.

In other words, it will be THE indie developer's console. No licensing fees to worry about, no publishing fees.

Oh, and the best part? You can hack it. You can root it. It won't void your warranty (they actually encourage you to experiment with it), and it will only cost $100, controller and everything included.

Mojang is very keen for porting all of their games to it if there's a high enough demand (I think there shall be), and several independent developers love the concept of it.

There won't be ads (like Xbox now insists on doing...), and for information check out their Kickstarter page.

What do you guys think? I think for $100 it's worth buying and developing for. Maybe Unity3D will work with it since it allows for Android development.

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Alien223
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 01:59
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I say game changer. It looks like a chance for indie deveolpers to get known and get there work out there to the world. It's affordable and classic looking. I will most likely buy it.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 03:12
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Yup. Weirdly I was wondering if something like this could work just last week, I guess they think so. Console gaming is so over-priced and I wont be getting a next-gen console for that reason but I would love to get one of these.

My idea was for a completely socialised gaming console: you would buy the hardware and pay a subscription fee, for that you get free access to every single game on the platform. This eliminates the need for any security whatsoever, besides ensuring the games can only be accessed via the system. The console developers would then buy games from developers to publish on the console. Would that work?

Shh... you're pretty.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 04:21 Edited at: 11th Jul 2012 04:27
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I think this will be a serious game changer, however I'm slightly discouraged that my pre-ordered phone has better (or at least similar) hardware than this console will have at launch.

Other thoughts:

I think this will bring in more big-name developers... Perhaps even put Android first in line for releases before the 'i' devices.

I'm hoping this will be an example to other hardware devs to leave their devices more open.

I am thinking of dropping the $99 to get an early release. Developing for this would be such a blast.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 04:51
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My two biggest concerns... Another Rasberr Pi launch fiasco (a joke of course but my point being huge demand sluggish distribution... Kinda kills the excitement you will likely agree)...

My main concern and point of interest... They should ban large publishers from releasing their products and makeit indie totally... And just block the big fishes such as Ubi and EA in other words anybody who hosted an E3 event lol...

I do not see it as a game changer much though... As we already have PS phones with various Android devices already sporting Joypads...

Anybody got a link to this kit? Would like to get my facts straight before I potentially rant on lol...

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 05:25
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Neither. It fills a niche market for a short period of time, IMO. There's no real benefit to it over consoles. For the AAA, you have PCs. Everyone has one of those. Everyone can develop for those. For the indie-games, you have both PC and mobile devices, and Xbox live, among others. I don't see a real point in it. I won't target it, and as a result, I'll save time (and therefore money) by not doing so.

MS plans a 720 with six or eight cores in it. Their price point, iirc, was about $200 to $300. That's not practically more expensive than the $99 cheap-ware console.

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Dar13
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 05:50
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The hardware is lousy(I mean seriously, *1* GB of RAM?), but the idea is solid. Not sure if I would buy it, I'd have to see the quality of the games developed for it.

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Indicium
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 05:55
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1GB ram will go a long way when there's not a clunky operating system taking it all up.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 06:15
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Quote: " however I'm slightly discouraged that my pre-ordered phone has better (or at least similar) hardware than this console will have at launch. "


Compare the price.... I'll bet your phone was more expensive, right?

Quote: "They should ban large publishers from releasing their products and makeit indie totally..."


Then we'll get into the debate of what makes an indie developer. Some of the EA mobile games have been great, so I think they should let the market handle itself. Let the good games rise to the top of the pile and not accept any kind of fee to get your game to the top. That way Ubi and EA will have to compete with everyone else purely on game.

I'll throw $120 at this and see if it sticks. I've paid much more for less interesting tech


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FireIndy
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 06:49
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This is interesting. If this isn't some amazing thing that takes off, it will for sure start a new wave. A console that is $100 bucks and the people who make it actually encourage you to do whatever you want to it?

I hope this takes off. I then am interested to see what Microsoft/Sony/hell even PC's do in response. This is just unheard of anymore. Companies are so careful with their property, and for good reason, but this is definitely going out on a limb.

I hope that this really does something.


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Dar13
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 06:59
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Quote: "1GB ram will go a long way when there's not a clunky operating system taking it all up."

Yeah fair enough.

I am intrigued, may contribute later on in the month.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 07:12
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Quote: "Compare the price.... I'll bet your phone was more expensive, right?"


Very true. I'm just whining I guess. I already ordered mine. Did the $99 pledge. It's a fantastic deal, really.

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ionstream
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 07:49
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They've tried this before with other devices. No one made anything worthwhile for them except emulators for existing consoles.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 12:15
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Quote: "The hardware is lousy(I mean seriously, *1* GB of RAM?),"


Bear in mind the XBox 360 only has 512mb RAM.

I am interested by this, the fact it is Android should make development easier already, I'm sure it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for TGC to get AppGameKit support for it and it probably wouldn't take much for something like Unity3D either or other tools that are already used to develop for Android. Nice to see it has already got so much money behind it. I don't know if it'll be a game changer, but I am sure enough people will buy it, it would be nice if it were a game changer as it'd be nice to see lots of people owning one and not only that but for other companies to try and compete with it.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 13:35
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What about shaders and graphic abilities?

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Van B
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 14:08
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Isn't the point of this that the games are free?

Isn't the point of being an indi developer to make money? - I mean without that, your a hobbyist developer, and this console will not attract serious developers if there's no money in it.
It's all well and good to avoid publishing costs, but that's fairly understandable when you can't charge for your games. Mojang won't release their games for free on this thing, nobody will, and they can't even release a game and support it financially through advertising.

It's smothered in fail if you ask me, it relies on people working for free, with no chance to recouperating their costs, or any sort of reward for their time. People have tried this already, it fails.

Sorry if I sound cheap, but that's reality - very few people intentionally develop games for free these days.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 14:15 Edited at: 11th Jul 2012 14:15
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Quote: "Isn't the point of this that the games are free?"


I think it says that at least a part of it has to be free.

Quote: "Developers can offer a free demo with a full-game upgrade, in-game items or powers, or ask you to subscribe."


My biggest concern is how open this is. Piracy/hacking might be a bit of a problem.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 23:38
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Well, I can develop for PC with no publishing fee. But still, for the developers that want to make games for consoles this is probably awesome news. I just hope this console will remain with the same specs in 7 years and bring down the quality of otherwise good PC games just so the game can work on a console to...
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 23:41
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I suspect their methods for trying to prevent piracy would be akin to piracy prevention on PCs. Unfortunately, as we know, piracy prevention on the PC ain't great.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:07 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 00:07
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1GB RAM isn't too bad, remember this is a gaming console not a PC. I would like to know if there is room to upgrade the hardware though, it would be nice to have a modular console.

Quote: "My biggest concern is how open this is. Piracy/hacking might be a bit of a problem."

This is why I think a blanket subscription fee would be a good idea: Everyone pays the same price for access to all the games. It would probably work out cheaper and there's no need for demos or anti-piracy software. Ouya would be responsible for divvying (seriously that is how you spell that word?) up the income between themselves and the developers.

I don't like the name Ouya, why are consoles given such stupid names? Play Station sounds like an early learning toy with spinning mirrors and squeaky animals; XBox 360 is a 13-year-old boy's attempt to make the word "box" sound cool; XBox 720 is just going round in circles; Wii is wee; Wii-u is still wee. Will the next one be called the "Giggity-Goo 1080"?

I think something like "Beta Drive" would be better as it says this is the second phase of console gaming (a return to the old days?) and also Beta referring to the development cycle, so it's "driving" games development. Maybe this sounds like all the games would be half finished though.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:17 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 00:20
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Wii just fuels so many jokes. Though you are right about the XBox, seems teens add 'x' to anything to try and make 'cool', at least it seems common on online games. "xCloudx", "CODRULZx", "StevezorzX", "xGOW4Evar".

I prefer people who use real world names or stuff from TV at least when they use decent names, it's fun when a message pops up: "You have been defeated by Peter Griffin." I also had a match with Tony Stark the other day.

I would like to see "Piers Morgan", "You have just killed Piers Morgan". Wouldn't that be satisfying?


But yes, the name does seem a little silly. Megadrive, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, even Playstation, best kind of names for a console. If it sounds geeky then it's good. Ouya is just like calling an operating system Ubuntu.

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fallen one
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:28
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Developers of this want the games to be free. LOL, get real.
Ive seen mobiles hooked up to joysticks and TVs, all thats needed is an easy way to do that, end of story, problem solved.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:36
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Hey I like the name Ubuntu! Especially when pronounced Ooboontoo, it's catchy and doesn't sound like anyone's urinating on it.

Ouya might as well be called Yeehaw or Woohoo. What annoys me is these are cutesy names describing a machine. Ouya could be anything from the name of an asexual children's cartoon character to something you hang on the rim of your toilet. It's a machine so it should sound like one.

You could say I contradicted myself with Ubuntu but that's software, it doesn't matter what you call it.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:50
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Quote: "Ooboontoo, it's catchy and doesn't sound like anyone's urinating on it."


Lol, now that you mention it, Ouya does sound like that, I guess they wanted to take after the Wii.

Perhaps it should be renamed OH YEAH! and have it endorsed by Koolaid.

Quote: "Hey I like the name Ubuntu!"


It's not very computery or geeky, I know that was the point, but it's one of those foreign words used to make it sound cultured, Ouya sounds like it could be another one. Perhaps it's Swahili for 'well, that was a lovely wee". Still, I admit Ubuntu does sound more interesting and I like it as an OS. Plus Ubuntu Cola tastes quite nice, better than Coca Cola IMO, but a hard fight against Pepsi.

Quote: "Developers of this want the games to be free. LOL, get real."


I think, as somebody's mentioned, you will be able to sell games, but they want you to have a free version, like a trial or a 'lite' version I guess. And they want free games available too. Possible I understood it wrong, but if they say, "free games only" then they're shooting themselves in the foot. Hobbyists might work for free and some studios might know out a free game if they're making money elsewhere, but it's not enough to make it a worthwhile console.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 01:03
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Games will not be free, it clearly says so in the first few lines.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 01:50
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There will be some free games, but Ouya are leaving it up to the individual developers to set price points and it sounds like the developers will have to release a downloadable demo.

I think people think that all games will be free because they hear the words "opensource". Opensource doesn't mean free; it just means that the code/hardware is modifiable by a community and not necessarily a team privately owned by a big-wig game developer.

Over $3.4 million dollars have been raised already, and for a $99 pledge I can be guaranteed to have an Ouya console in March. I think I might do it.

If nothing else, this whole project does still prove a point; people want a different type of console gaming experience, and they want it NOW!

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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 01:53
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Quote: "Over $3.4 million dollars have been raised already, and for a $99 pledge I can be guaranteed to have an Ouya console in March. I think I might do it. "


careful, there is a very limited number the $95 dollar pledges also got a console but those are all sold out... and if we want an extra controller, which EVERYBODY will need anyway its gonna cost more also for foreign users extra shipping!

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 02:06
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MrValentine, I think they added a $99 pledge after the $95 pledge sold out, because they realized they could get more backers that way. If there's one thing the Ouya team is showing they know how to do, it's marketing.

Either way, I pledged $130.00 with over 59K consoles left (out of 80K), so I really hope I get it by March of next year.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 03:46
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Sadly only time will tell...

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 04:17 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 04:19
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I love the idea of this, but I certainly wouldn't even think about spending $100 right now. There have been extremely exciting consoles that failed horribly in the past, and there will be extremely exciting consoles to fail in the future... I wouldn't be surprised if this was the next one to fail.

Quote: "Developers of this want the games to be free. LOL, get real.
Isn't the point of this that the games are free?"

No no, you two are slightly misinformed... As far as I'm aware that is.
Not every single game has to be entirely free. There just has to be some free-to-play module to a degree for every game. The entire game doesn't have to be free though, it just means there has to be a demo, trial, free-to-play with micro-transactions, etc... Thought I'd just clear that up. Everyone is smart enough to know that a console would fail miserably if there was no money to be made, given that's the entire point.

I>Every single one of you

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 06:37
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Unity will support this device. That's pretty cool.

Quote: "I love the idea of this, but I certainly wouldn't even think about spending $100 right now. There have been extremely exciting consoles that failed horribly in the past, and there will be extremely exciting consoles to fail in the future... I wouldn't be surprised if this was the next one to fail."


I will admit, I'm very nervous that will be the case. It will be great for a few months because it got hyped up and then Ouya couldn't keep up with the demand, constant delays mean less business and would-be customers start to lose interest in it...

But then again, if I get one and start developing for it as soon as I can, who knows? I could make one of the best platformers on it and give it a good title. Even if I only contribute one game, so far that's 28,616 people that get to play it. And that thought encourages as the numbers are sky-rocketing!

I'm kinda surprised people aren't more enthused about this. I understand concerns, but hey, if anything this project shows that there are people with the power to actually make indie game development a heckuva lot easier for the console market! How is that not exciting?!

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 07:52
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really can't imagine this growing large enough to support the potential queue of dev's.


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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 07:56
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Quote: "I'm kinda surprised people aren't more enthused about this. I understand concerns, but hey, if anything this project shows that there are people with the power to actually make indie game development a heckuva lot easier for the console market! How is that not exciting?!"

They made 3 million dollars in like 3 days or something... It's hard to get much more enthusiastic than that lol. It doesn't matter what's being released, there's always going to be the portion of people that are skeptical, especially when there's good reason to be skeptical about it. Just at this point, it's hard to be so enthusiastic about something that is so far from release and can so easily fall under the roof well before it even gets a chance to release. In fact, I find it far more surprising that people are this enthusiastic about it.

However, I don't think there's anyone who isn't necessarily excited about it, it's just that, it's so early on that as far as I'm concerned it's vaporware.

I>Every single one of you

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greenlig
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 16:25
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There's no way it's vapourware. Yves Behar is the designer, and he is well known. If it was vapourware, or a money-grab, his name would be completely ruined. This console will launch, and it will have a userbase, but it will be more like comparing Steam with Desura. Similar service, but cater to different markets. Will it be a cracking success and be on every kids Christmas list? Probably not. Will it make it heaps easier to develop fun console games to play in the living-room? Sure.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 19:47
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http://www.cynapse.com/resources/benefits-open-source

Just thought this link might be handy for this debate...

Can someone confirm the development environment for Ouya? I am weirdly interested all of a sudden at the prospects of developing on it... seeing as its supposedly free of licence fees...

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fallen one
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 21:19 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 21:20
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Rasberry pi, thats like 25 usd of something, Chinese will copy it, sell it on ebay for less and without the vat and cheaper shipping, it will be that cheap, they will owe you money for buying it. Thing runs on Linux or Android, there you go, theres your new console. No need for this new device.


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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 21:54
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Quote: "There's no way it's vapourware. Yves Behar is the designer, and he is well known."

I'm not saying it actually is vaporware, I'm saying it's simply irrelevant to me right now. It wouldn't be the first time a console failed to make it to the market and it sure as hell won't be the last. As far as I'm concerned, this could be Phantom Console #2 for all I know. Let's say it does get released though, that doesn't mean it will go anywhere from there. Only time will tell, and I'm simply speculating on possible outcomes. For all I know it can be a massive success. I am just slightly fearing the worse slightly over the greater.

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DevilLiger
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 23:37 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 23:41
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possible future:
Ouya comes out with success, but gets countered by the big consoles with the same business model as well. Afterwards huge wave of Ouya console clones will soon follow. I'm just saying beware of clones and future similar business practice to steal some of that money to their side as well.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 00:23
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Quote: "possible future:
Ouya comes out with success, but gets countered by the big consoles with the same business model as well. Afterwards huge wave of Ouya console clones will soon follow. I'm just saying beware of clones and future similar business practice to steal some of that money to their side as well. "


Considering Sony and I believe Microsoft too were practically giving their consoles away in the past [trying to recouperate losses via Games and Sony via BluRay licences] this would not be anything new >.<

I could be wrong there though...

but frankly if the big boys did it, we would see another SEGA repeat...

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Quik
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 00:43
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I think this is great - not only MAY it make Sony and Microsoft step up the game, but it also looks like a great thing.

More competition in the industry can ONLY be a great thing.



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Benjamin
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 04:58
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It may be interesting for developers, but how many console gamers are realistically going to be interested in it? And is there any point when there are so many Android devices such as smart phones and tablets that can do pretty much the same thing and more?

I don't hold out much hope, but we'll see.



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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 23:48
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Pledged $149! That's with shipping and a 2nd controller.

I play a lot of XBLA games. Games like Bastion, Defence Grid and Braid could easily have been released on Ouya. I have also played a lot of Awesomenauts lately and for the developer to get updates out on 360 is very expensive and slow. I think the Ouya will be great for all developers, small and large. The deal is basically the same as developing for Andorid phones.

There are plenty of cool games for Android. I have a Galaxy S2, it was 6 times as expensive as the Ouya. And playing games on it sucks. The screen is too small (4.3") and virtual controls doesn't compare to a controller. Also this is a console plugged into the TV with separate controllers. You can't compare it to a phone at all.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 00:10 Edited at: 17th Jul 2012 00:11
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Quote: "There are plenty of cool games for Android. I have a Galaxy S2, it was 6 times as expensive as the Ouya. And playing games on it sucks. The screen is too small (4.3") and virtual controls doesn't compare to a controller. Also this is a console plugged into the TV with separate controllers. You can't compare it to a phone at all."


Wow Usually I hardly come across a comment that has me dual sided...

I totally agree with the issue of the SGSII being bad for gaming, but that second bit has me saying something else...

In contrast there apparrently are controllers for Android systems already... but HOW THE HECK DO YOU PLAY WITH THEM WHEN ONE HAND IS HOLDING THE DEVICE? and in contrast, A CONSOLE IS FOR CONSOLE TV GAMING so leave the darn mobiles out of it...

where this little thing is concerned... I like how they are utilising something semi free to create something which as mentioned about the updates is much more flexible for both the end users and developers... Users need not wait for an update and Devs need not get hammerred with complaints and hate mail and those little brown paper bags with waste objects in them being posted through the door... [or so I have heard worse, far worse]

Anyhow... I think everybody should discuss this less as with HL3 nothing is concrete yet... so everything is practically speculative...

wow even my own comment went way off key...

EDIT

Typo in bold

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 12:23
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While phones are no good for playing regular FPS games, there are some games that fit realy well, or would fit realy well for touch screens. They are hard to find, but there are some games that are realy well made for touch screens. Planetary wars for android is a pretty good example of that...
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KickBack
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 12:48
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It's funny how everyone hates on the windows metro and xbox360 dashboard but this UI is exactly the same and no one has mentioned it once
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 13:01
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Consoles only make money on their games, that's like rule 1 with console development. People just don't understand, or want to understand the development process, manufacturing, distribution - that money can never be reclaimed with hardware sales - anyone who tries to do that fails miseribly.

This system needs a financially solid foundation, and I don't mean Mojang, I mean Valve for example. Imagine if they made it a Steam console, rather than Valve considering doing their own thing, Razer doing their own thing, Dell doing their own thing... we don't need all these companies pulling in opposite directions.

Software sells hardware, hardware is useless without software support, without games and I mean a lot of games, this console is fricken doomed. It can sit beside my CD32, Sega Saturn, and GP2X, in the 'wonder if I can be turned into something useful' pile.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 14:43
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Quote: "that money can never be reclaimed with hardware sales - anyone who tries to do that fails miseribly."


Wii?



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Quik
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 15:30
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since it will only go for (judging from the kickstarter) 95$, i would certanly buy it anyway



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 16:41
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Ok, - the Wii is the exception, but to be fair - it's also the easiest console to crack and get pirate software for, since the Dreamcast I'd say, with it's CD based hacking capability. What happened to the Dreamcast?, piracy destroyed it.

The Wii's saving grace is that Wii owners tend not to be technically minded enough to know the ins and outs, or they just don't use their Wii enough to warrant pirating software. Same goes for the DS, Nintendo's hack protection is practically based on it's users lack of technical knowledge.

We are looking at a console that will be hackable as soon as it's released, it won't use optical media for protection, in fact it'll be an open playing field. Now that's amazing for homebrewers, but pretty grim for anyone looking to sell games for the thing, and without a solid financial viability foundation none of the big players will invest time or money developing for it.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Jul 2012 16:49 Edited at: 17th Jul 2012 16:49
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And the wii's priced competitively with the other two consoles because of it's low end hardware even when selling it for a small profit.

Also, piracy wasn't exactly easy on the wii until long after the wii was established in the market.

darkBIT TGC Torrent Tracker / File Server - AGK Chat: #agk : irc.devhat.net
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