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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [LOCKED] The nFinity project

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Rob K
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Posted: 30th May 2003 22:08
"You don't like 2D then I take it "

No, its not that, but look at the game you made and look at commercial games. Your one is sub-par in those terms.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th May 2003 22:34
i'm not going to make any real comments here as i've assured Jerico that this'll be his domain to answer questions.

I would like to say that most of you believe that FMTau Labs itself is hardware developing this product and financing this project etc...
where you get this misconception from i do not know.
We are simply handleing everything to do with the console, general Marketing will be done here until the Hardware Development Country unveils later this year.

Basically all we're doing is making sure the hardware will have some software, the support of the industry (professional developers), support from a Publisher, internet service provider support for the networking and special online zones, etc... you get the idea.
Although i've designed and given the idea for the Hardware i believe there is a team of around 40 people including a PhD Scientist who is responsible for alot of the technology currently residing in most people machines right now.

though to be honest what do you guys care if we went bust? you would still have a machine and online support for it would probably grow as well if not for the machine then purely for DarkBasicProfessional on the strength that some companies felt it could've been used in a project like this.
Eitherway this is all at a Win-Win situation for everyone, none of our developers will go without being paid ... FMTau stands to make profit even if the hardware itself fails thanks to a current deal with our publisher that would mean they'll go onto the budget market range - these companies are happy because thier paid, we're happy because thier titles are out there, and our publisher is happy because of their profit margin.

The way i can see it you can either stop arguing about something that NONE of you can do anything about or should really be conserned about anyways and actually get onto more important topics, like perhaps "When is the SDK going to be available?", "Will the machine be using HLSL or Cg Shaders?", "What will be the licensing contracts?", "How will this Internet Zone thing work?", "What exactly does the controler currently have or have planned?", "Will my current DarkBasic Pro titles be compatible to be compiled for this machine?", etc...

get of the subject of hardware, costs etc... something which we at FMTau ourself do not get much is any say over even.
And Dan yes the projects are the same, the way i see it this is just the evolution of your idea and it will not go unrewarded friend.
That said it will be good to find out what you finally come up with because it will always be good to have a plan b as it were.
Even though this project is going ahead, it doesn't mean that the DB-Box is not wanted or now some rivel. Infact it'll be good to sell an "Official" PC version of the console will certainly be good

hopefully we can now get of this stupid subject of the possibility and such and actually perhaps allow people to make thier own minds up and get onto REAL issues that would bother developers.

At the end of the day you will still be programming in DarkBASIC Professional so even IF and that is a big if this project doesn't go ahead, you can still retail your games on the PC ... so really it is still a Win-Win for your guys as well, i don't understand why such reservations ... if it was suggested you use this new language only compatible on the console itself, but no you all know DBP all of the code will work exactly the same on the PC version for the Console version that will be the entire bloody point so really what would it matter?

and you're all forgetting the possibility that what if the project is released and shunned? i didn't which is why i'm getting as much industry support as possible from some the othe biggest names in development today to either develop a game or endorse this project.

i have left NOTHING to chance here, this is going ahead one way or another ... and all i want are blasted developers for it. We're not some company like the Phantoms which is making big grand things about hardware setups or how the thing will work, everything i've mentioned is entirely possible for ANY company to do right now wit the right Licenseing deals.

We're not saying that this console will break all graphical grounds, because it isn't designed to.
We're not saying that this console will revolutionise Online gameing as although it has the ability of Dialup, Broadband and MultiUnit connection that isn't a specific design.
We're not saying this is out there to compete against the big players Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft ... I mean for gods sake our development schedual has been arranged specifically so that we have a FREE market from competition to actually try to get a good customer base. We will be competeting against them eventually, but right now we just want a customer base rather than trying to show up the big wigs... if we don't seem like a threat then we are even more dangerous when our claws come out in 18months time.
We're not saying that we'll be using some brand spanking new type of CPU or GPU or APU or Media Type, etc... infact emphasis is on hardware which users can purchase for thier hope computers as well.
We have said there will be a special AOL online area, but right now AOL has special areas for over 40 multinational companies including the almost dead Amiga for crying out loud ... so i'd hardly say that is pushing the boundries.

Name something to me which is planned in this project which you can honestly can't be done without a tiny bit of determination?

if you don't want to develop or even feel this idea will ever lift off the ground then that is fair enough, you are entitled to your own opinions. However please keep grandose comment to yourself, if you want to be involved then ask questions about the machines itself rather than business practises which are no consern of anyone except FMTau Labs. You don't tell DBS howto market themselves, you don't have any right to tell us how to do our jobs either...

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Ian T
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Posted: 30th May 2003 22:39
I promise you I'll join in-- when I see the model on the market.

This being esentially a mini-PC, even more so than the Xbox, you don't really need a bunch of developers to convince a manufacturer; as with the Phantom, you've already got a host of compatible games.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th May 2003 23:35
yeah i suppose your right Mouse... if
a) the HDD was there for games to be installed on
b) those games were setup already to play on the Controler
c) those games were able to use the Unified Ram
d) those games would recognise the OS

but apart from that i guess your right, well also cept for the way the CPU is being developed as well ... and the fact that the motherboard is actually quintessentially different from a PC motherboard, although the PC version will have the same power - but the Ram will be Upgradeable & the other options builtin.

also it would defeat the point in pushing this as a development console with a language which is good enough for professional use ... meaning the games on it should really be developed WITH the language. If you release 10 C++ DirectX game on such a machine from professional developers what would that say to you about the language provided?

Whereas if you seen something like say, Tomb Raider 7 developed with Dark Basic nFinity ... then you'll suddenly get all those home user sit up and say "Hey, if they used what was provided and created that! Then i can do it too!"
of course they mostly likely couldn't because there is alot of experience there, but the fact that they can is enough to give them that hope which is really the true idea behind the console.

begining to understand at all what this is more about?

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 30th May 2003 23:43
Quote: " like say, Tomb Raider 7 developed with Dark Basic nFinity "

Do her tits bounce?

Pneumatic Dryll
hexGEAR
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Posted: 30th May 2003 23:52 Edited at: 30th May 2003 23:53
"Do her tits bounce"

yeah raven, I'm beginning to understand now, this could be a really cool idea! imagine it, console game-making not being restricted to advanced game companies, almost anyone can make thier own game and sell it for the console etc

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, thats to find meaning in the sufferening.....
Ian T
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Posted: 31st May 2003 00:21
Yes, Raven, I understand. Quite a nice idea. I've said so already.

Do I recall you saying just a page back that 'You didn't want people to join in the bandwagon' and now you're trying to entice developers to join in your... idea?

I still haven't seen a single good argument from you as to how you're gonna get this thing off the ground. You've said 'we can succeed' and given a few price estimates. How about some serious work? Predicting sales and popularity before you've even found a manufacturer... there's a fable about that, you know.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
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Posted: 31st May 2003 00:30
Good stuff. Hopefully now this post will go the right way. Now instead of talking about the possibility of this, we can talk about what games we will develop for it. Even if none of this ever happens, we won't have wasted our time if it pushes us to create some great games.

Quote: "No sober man dances unless he happens to be mad"

If that is the case, what happens when a madman gets drunk?
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 31st May 2003 03:22
I want to make a game called Raiding Tombs with Tatu as the main characters and their mission is to collect sports bra padding.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Posted: 31st May 2003 03:33
Couldn't the word "collect" in the mission statement be "remove"
O yes, and do their tits bounce?

Quote: "No sober man dances unless he happens to be mad"

If that is the case, what happens when a madman gets drunk?
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 31st May 2003 03:40
Inspite of hearing the contagious "does those tits bounce" by several young coders..

.. isn't it suppose to be the boobs? All these while, I've seen lots of bouncing boobs, i've never recall a closeup of bouncing tits! lol!

(maybe i didn't look close enough.. bouncing titties??)

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 31st May 2003 14:33
This is the closest i've found so far, still can't find a bouncing tit.



Pneumatic Dryll
striker25
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Posted: 31st May 2003 15:11
raven....i love the sound of this...i started to develop my own condsole a while back(for personal use) but i got caught up in the whole financial issue(stupid shopkeeper never said anything about having to pay!!)

I hope it goes somewhere!

regards

striker25

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st May 2003 21:31
We're currently working on getting some development teams from other bedroom developer communities onto the project.
Might not be much but as the current DBP community takeup is

Banshee Studios
Crystal

then we're not confident about having exactly the widest selection from this community. I'm hopeing that once Banshee finish thier several games they'll look into learning Shaders to enhance the looks to something a bit more polished, Asteriods is a great title, but uses complete 2D which with the power at thier disposal will look just a little 10years ago. So hoping they upgrade to Shader Explosions, 3D Ships & Asteriods, perhaps fight around a planet & hyperjump to the next a little like the current Defender Remake from Atari.

Although we do have currently a few professional developers, one 2 are willing to develop for it right now ... the rest are just more moral support (good for the projects clout, not so good for titles lol)
i have contacted Core Design though, as with TR:AoD as good as done they should have a free development schedual for a little while - and i have perfect confidence that a team of thier guys could develop a full game in a matter of weeks. I've asked them to download and tryout the DBP demo, although personally i'd of loved for them to try 1.04.1 instead due to how much more stable it is - just not a luxury i have to offer them right now.

you know times like this i hate, just waiting wondering what is going to happen, what responses i'll get.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Rob K
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Posted: 31st May 2003 22:29
I think that there is a lot that could be done with current games before going anywhere near the realm of shaders.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 04:03
why? the game plays well, perhaps the physics could do with a little tweaking so that without power you keep on the vector you were rather than more in the direction your facing.

Other than that it is a very true arcade classic, but as i said ... personally i'd like to see the game taken to the next level like Defender has. I know that Pneumatic probably doesn't want to take this title on a much longer development span and make it a fully standalone game, he'd rather create a compendium of titles.
He's the developer thats his perogative isn't it

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Rob K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 10:08
"personally i'd like to see the game taken to the next level like Defender has"

Are you referring to the Defender remake on the consoles? Given the choice of that or a 2D platform game on my old 8Mhz Colour Gameboy, I'd take the 2D platform game anytime.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 10:26
Quote: "I know that Pneumatic probably doesn't want to take this title on a much longer development span and make it a fully standalone game"


Actually I wasn't thinking of even including Asteroids in the planned classic game collection. I've already given it away for free so consequently it would be a bit cheaky to now turn around and ask money for it.

However if you would like to discuss our projects Rob, and influence them as I am open to your suggestions (afterall you've got the wallet), then by all meens sign onto our forums and i'll grant you internal access - this is where our games are designed now.

The game were focusing on at the moment is our version of golf, only it isn't exactly Links Golf... More sort of, well - I wouldn't want to spoil the fun for everyone else by telling you here...

Pneumatic Dryll
bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 11:49 Edited at: 1st Jun 2003 11:49
*Goes off to study better sources of computer history, as his old computer teacher was a bloody moron...*

pff...workin' in his basement pff..i should've guessed that was phooey coming from her..

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Newsgroup : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMag/
madbilly
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 13:00
Sounds well interesting, I only wish more people would be supportive rather than dismissive of your idea.

One thing though - the implied manufacturer of the console has their own programming language that they keep trying to push don't they - Cg? What's to say that they won't dismiss the DBPro idea in favour of pushing Cg, or even a higher-level easier to use version of it?

Apart from that it sounds good. You appear to have covered most of the angles regarding H/W, OS, etc. Even the problem of being able to use DX9 on it which I thought would be a problem.

Having DBPro shipped with the console is also a well good idea in my opinion, similar to the 8-bit machines having their own BASIC languages built in. Would certainly bring back that bedroom spirit...

....BUT the market for consoles nowadays is a completely different demographic than it was for the old 8-bit machines. For a start it is a few years older (I would guess between 5 and 10). Secondly - and it was the PSOne that kicked this off - consoles are a large part of youth and lad culture (in the UK anyway). This could put off many who would buy one, because they would be reminded of the image of spotty teenagers who never saw the sun because they spent all day in their room with their curtains closed putting their finishing touches to yet another adventure game.....phew! I think this is a significant hurdle to get over, one that the Game Cube seems to be experiencing with it "for kids" badge.

Aprt from those one or two points, it sounds solid, MUCH more solid than the Linux/OpenGL box I heard about a few years ago!
Rob K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 13:35
PD,

I was impressed by your asteroids game but its biggest failing was that there was nothing innovative about it. I know it is a retro remake, but all the best retro remakes twist the game with some new element to make it more difficult / more interesting. This can either be a translation into 3D or it could be a gameplay change.

Eg: I played an update of breakout where when you hit some of the blocks, the speed of the game, ball size, or position of blocks was affected, so you had to carefully try and keep them until last.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 14:12
well Cg isn't really a stand-alone language, its more of an interpreter language used to create the ever increasing complexity of Shaders.

you look at how shaders are developing and it is actually not that far off how computer languages were first developed - only know we have proven working frameworks to base them upon.
that aside Bg will infact be identical to Cg, the only difference is that it will be in DarkBASIC syntax rather than C.

as far as the demographics go we're aiming mainly at the male/female 13-35 sector ... general games players and a good hope that we can boast the machine by **leaking** information as unofficial sources into the mod communities and such, see where alot of hear'say can get us. However that said the machine does have a little for everyone in the family so back to the "Entertainment System" console hehe

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 19:36 Edited at: 1st Jun 2003 19:37
Quote: "but all the best retro remakes twist the game with some new element to make it more difficult / more interesting. This can either be a translation into 3D or it could be a gameplay change.
"


There is some originallity in there Rob, I don't recall the original asteroids shooting you back! Or surrounding you and closing in or dropping down the screen like Tetris or big nasty aliens homing in on the player and dogfighting with them amongst the asteroids....

There's quite a lot there, if your good enough to reach it Those first few levels without any real innovation are really just for warming up. Let's not forget the power ups too, there's some novel ones like the plasma ring and I think everyone loves the mega-missile pack.

My take on Asteroids tries to keep the gameplay changing so that the player isn't just repeating the same basic task of shooting big rock, shooting two little rocks, rinse..repeat. OK that's in there, it has to be or it isn't Asteroids....

I didn't go 3D because i've seen loads of 3D Asteroids games and all of them where conceptually floored, the genre just 'wants' to be 2D.

Pneumatic Dryll
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 20:16
POSITIVE:

Anything you want me to do Raven, just email me. I will help, whatever happens.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
BoB Vila
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 20:22
Yea, please send me an email as well. I've got a small team and we've been producing good games.
hexGEAR
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 20:24
i want in as well!!! sign me up

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, thats to find meaning in the sufferening.....
The Wendigo
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 02:52
I think I'm drewling. Though I've for the most part been an anti-console type person (as it is hard for the average schmo to program on them) I'm very pro-DB and because of that, problem number one is solved. I would definetily be a "bedroom tester" if I can see a prototype. Btw, do I get a free one if I write a game for it? x-d

Current Projects: mini BSP maker 50%, Height Mapper with many features 75%, FPS/RTT Nameless at the moment 15%
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 04:37
Martyn don't you already have a job for me already? :: raises eyebrow ::

if you wish to develop a game on this console then please contact jerico2day@yahoo.com noting your wish to develop.
we will have a forum setup specifically for developers of the console within the next day, but this will only be a stop gap measure as the new sites design has got sections develop for the help area/developers area/etc...
don't worry though we will be using the current forum database for the userbase of the new site, so no multiple signing up.

also if in your email you could note the following:
Team Name
Number of Members
Nicknames/Realnames of Members
Proposed Game Title (if there is one else put as untitled)
Proposed Game (a breif description of the game)
Current Website (if applicable)
Contact Email Address (of who we need to email with new information)

Wendingo although it was originally said that all developers whould get free db-boxes, dan told me it would be best to wait before doing this ... and after thinking about it kinda agree now.
i think that will be more a conversation to discuss with the actual developers themselves - as they must develop or at the very least have the ability to be able to test on the end machine so they cam check for bug, so it is very likely.
But this is most likely to be discussed along with the envitable license fee for purchasing each game.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
BoB Vila
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 06:56
I am curious about the actual Marketing and distribution aspect of the console and games.

Is this going to be sold on the retail markets.
If it is, are the games going to be distributed retail?
If so, how is the publishing going to work? Are you going to
handle the publishing aspect for "qualified" titles?
If its not, are the games going to be distributed through
a single web site or something.
Will the games be downloadable or are they Disc only.

The answers to these questions are probably just going to generate more questions. But I am curious what the strategy is, or has it not been worked out. I am wondering if you are trying to create a game console that will compete with microsoft and sony or is this going to be some sort of "underground" project for the elite gamers.

Also, what countries is this going to be sold in. I know how when most consoles are released, the dates are staggered. This might make some stuff difficult since the DB community is spanned around the world. I'm going to assume that this thing will be released in UK first but what about the rest of us.

I'm also curious about the pricing plan for the games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 08:37
Oki well i'm going to try to answer these Qs and hopefully it'll make sense.

Currently the setup is that FMTau handles the developers & publishers ... and the Publishers retail the game, which currently we have EA for the USA Developers and EIDOS for the UK Developers - this might seem weird, but EA have a funny thing for wanting to release titles in the US 3months ahead of the UK. It kinda makes sense here atleast but as everyone goes through us, its only us who have to remember which developer has which publisher

basically any market that either EA Games or EIDOS Interactive server, that is where you are going to find your software being sold.

to be able to compete with Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo of course we do have some "underground" projects cooking as it were. Hopes are that we can get atleast 5 current developers for the PC & Consoles to have just a single project for this console.

probably the most obvious entisement to develop for the console for them is the fact that there really arn't any Licensing issues as the Karma Shipped will be License free, BSP Shipped will be License free, there will hopefully be a copy of Softimage XSI 3.5 (obviously edited) and we're looking into sound/music/image editing packages right now. So really alot of those huge costs they have will just go bye-bye

However all this said, you will be able to download demo's of games online and perhaps even an area to download & purchase Shareware games as well (for those who don't fancy thier chances actually getting fully published)

the current release plans are to release within UK, USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, Europe & Russia ... with UK, USA & Canada being similataneous releases - but the other countries will probably follow shortly after, particularly Europe & Austrilia.
But then the distribution and such is mostly upto the Hardware Developers, they do have alot more experience in this field

the pricing plan for the games we are hoping should be
$45 / £35 for a new release
$15 / £10 for a budget rerelease (obviously not for a while)

puts the games themselves relatively cheap on the market, i'll talk to you more about the pricing structure for us licensing titles you'll see that its because of the lack of licensing costs that actually allow us to pass these savings onto the consumer whilst still making a tidy little profit for everyone involved in development

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 10:38
hummm, i need some content Mr. Raven

Then i can go onto news and other systems with correct menu's!

hehe, lol

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 11:01
I wonder if any of you people would actually say this stuff to someones face, instead of hiding behind avatars in a programming forum
Terabyte
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 15:12
has ayone read this post from top to bottom [img] [/img]

Info Q.&statments corect@da time of going to pres. I acept 0 responsibility for typos gramaticaly incorect txt swering or pety complant tht u hve so just piss off unles u r anserin da Q.
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 15:51
nope, I am currently Reading War and Peace, it is considerably shorter

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
UberTuba
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 16:55
Raven, releasing in russia commercially is probly a bad idea as
there is so much piracy.

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 18:39
Why did i not notice this this was one of my many attemps to do somthing for the DarkBasic Community i made a consol yes its done i dont have a digital camera but ill buy one today and show you if i have the money heres a diagram

[img]EpicCrossings.Bravepages.com/consoldiagram.bmp[/img]

i wish i could show you it its about 6"x6"x2"
its a
PIII 650mhz
GForce4 64 meg
256(will be 512mg) of ram
it uses a weird controler i found, a keyboard, and a mouse with a Win98 hack that uses full screen mode and boots from a cd or dvd and saves to a special format floppy the Visual OS is a Thing i made in DBPro

Ill show you soon

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Andy Igoe
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 18:55
Eddie, all I got was a ton of adverts and that blasted clock sync thing trying to install itself.

Pneumatic Dryll
Eddie Gordo
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 19:03
Nevermind ill convert the image when i get to my last class. the computer im on sucks. also by then ill have a digital camera so that is when ill unvail the...(thinks of name)...The NAME T.B.D. in the next 15-30 minutes

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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 19:19
*ahem*

I apologize for criticizing and being rude about it. Negetive input dosen't help anything, obviously. Good luck, you'll need it.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Kevin Picone
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Location: Australia
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 19:32
This is rapidly becoming an exercise in a complete lack of common sense, and a dangerous one at that. Personally, My main concerns is not the viability of even the source for once , but the implication these kind of half arsed schemes have upon more some impressionable DB/DBpro users.

So far, this project is vaporware, a concept and nothing more. Before programmers run off signing up, under the promise of being published retail console developers. Which some younger/new users may do.. Ask yourself what is more likely. This project takes off internationally, or it never becomes anything more than a concept.

If this was serious attempt, would the creators being openly discussing such a sensitive concept in a public arena.. or under NDA.

Obviuosly not.

l8r,
Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 20:18
Quote: "So far, this project is vaporware, a concept and nothing more."


It wont start as a finished project. You have good reason to doubt whether the console succeeds or not, the market dictates that this is a high risk venture.

Quote: "Before programmers run off signing up, under the promise of being published retail console developers. Which some younger/new users may do.. Ask yourself what is more likely. This project takes off internationally, or it never becomes anything more than a concept. "


This is not sound business sense and anyone can see that. Allow me to explain and focus on that 'ask yourself what is more likely' part.

Some things arn't very sensible investments at all - such as the stock market v's the interest rate on your mortgage, but still people invest in the stock market because there is a chance it will reap a massive cash reward. This is called a high risk investment.

Most mortgages have a lower interest rate than the typical return of the stock market, particularly over the last 5 years, therefor anyone who has a mortgage might be considered foolish to invest in it because they would save more money by paying off their mortgage than they would expect to earn from the stock market.

However they arn't considered foolish, and many people do it. High risk investments typically have the best rewards.

What you should actually be asking yourself is: Is the reward worth the risk?

Well, as we all program games in DB anyway, what is the harm of considering FMTau as a publisher when the next game is finished?

There is no risk - we all love writting games that is what we do.

Compared to giving the games away for free I find the cash insentive quite appealling - whats more the agreement in principle that I have come to with FMTau meens the success of the console has very little bearing on the short term in the context of payment. I expect to get the first payments before the console is either launched but after it is confirmed for launch, hopefully within a few weeks.

Quote: "If this was serious attempt, would the creators being openly discussing such a sensitive concept in a public arena.. or under NDA.

Obviuosly not."


The fundamental principle behind the console (basically, a modern Amiga) was born on these forums so the secret is already out. Now there could be an NDA in place, and that could be why there is no confirmation of who the manufacturer is and instead we're left to speculate.

However one very clear reason for being open has been put forward, that is the current shortage of developers for the console, and as that is the basic premise of this thread (despite several variations from the path).

Therefor, I cannot see how the existence of this thread proves that there is not a console.

Pneumatic Dryll
Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 21:07
No use trying to talk sense into them UW. They're like the newbs back on the old forums who were 150% certain they would make Doom 4. Let 'em learn the hard way.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Andy Igoe
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 21:25
More flames Mouse, but still no base to your argument.

Pneumatic Dryll
hexGEAR
21
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Location: Naytonia
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 21:50
nah u guys are getting this all wrong, if you don't support this why are you here?

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, thats to find meaning in the sufferening.....
W0LF
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 21:57
PneumaticDryll,
You make nice games and no one will dispute that. There is no harm in you working on your games "as normal" for an imaginary platform. In the end you will lose NOTHING because you would have been working on it anyway. So... in some regards I see your point.
On the other hand, there is just absolutely no chance of this working. As you know DB requires DX. DX requires windows. Windows requires licensing. If it was built as a mini-computer, that is one thing. You would just load the OS and be done with it. To modify windows and try to sell it is flat out illegal. I'm sure it could be payed for, but that license would be more that most pro 3D engines. If you, or anyone else thinks that Microsoft is going to give anything like that away for free your nuts. COO-COO! There is a reason that Bill Gates is the richest man in the world. On top of that, who is going to modify the OS? Windows is buggy enough as it is, I can't even imagine a modified version of it.
So, while I see your point about not losing anything, I still think the whole thing is silly. You comparison of a high risk investment as being the stock market is wrong. It is more comparable to the lottery. While I'll play the lottery every once in a while, I don't plan to retire on it..... though it is nice to dream.

WOLF

HOOOWWWWLLLLL!!!!!!
Andy Igoe
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 22:04
The lottery is a poor example - I know the chance of winning the English lottery with a single ticket is about 11 million to one - in America the odds are likely different but I don't know what.

The reason it is significant to say this is because the odds of a major hardware manufacturer purchasing a Windows lisence is significantly higher than 11 million to one.

Infact if I was making the console myself in a shed with a hacksaw, i'd give myself better odds than that! In this instance however, after having spoke to Raven directly over many issues I believe that the prospect of the consoles delivery is quite high, however I appreciate there is a chance for failure.

So what if the console fails? This thread isn't actually asking anything of you. It is an announcement of a forthcoming product.

You may if you wish contact Jerico or Raven directly and find out more like I did - and on the basis of those discussions i've decided to commit quite heavily to this console, and have agreed an arrangement that puts myself very definately in a low risk position.

Pneumatic Dryll
Eddie Gordo
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 22:16 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2003 22:38
Yeah for real, dont doubt me ill show you this is the early form of it i had it in school today(only brought it cause i made a better one at home), basically its just a small computer that uses special formated 3 1/2 floppys for memory cards. and the new one has a dvd drive this one only has a 52x CD-Rom, yeah i know this is old and crappy but the one i made recently is alot better. when i get home ill start up the new one and post some OS pics.

Oh i came up with a name : Shadow Factor

Back:



Front:



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W0LF
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 22:19
That is cool...
Good luck to you. However, I would have to say that I would prefer the lottery odds.

(If you didn't realize by now, Raven is a great BS'er. One of the better ones that I've ever seen on these forums. The only one that may have been comparable is Brice Manual/Flaming Amoeba/White Eagle.)

Once again, good luck.

WOLF

HOOOWWWWLLLLL!!!!!!
Eddie Gordo
21
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 22:19
hey its not windows its just a fullscreen exclusive emulator that can use DX and some of the windows executables, and technicaly its not illegal its just some 3rd party dll that emulate DX in system

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Eddie Gordo
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 2nd Jun 2003 22:23
wow you post faster than me, is anyone interested, i can make this cause of the place i work at. it uses DBPro Apps Mostly if you format the CD/DVD right. i have a program that shows you how to burn it onto a cd and how to make the saves goto the floppy.



P.S. i used Shadow cause word says its a synonim for dark and somehow i got to factor from basic

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