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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Bump Mapping: Crying for help

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Inspire
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 00:39
Quote: "Well its like I always thought, shaders dont work, I didnt think copying would do it, the ones that come with tthe game dont work, so copying wont do it, they just dont work, but keep us informed, I hope you crack it, If only that ELE game would let us have their shaders or code so we could have it as well.
"


Um...Ertlov got it...

Cheese Cake
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 00:54
Can you post some screenies with a different texture which has some colors?

Not saying i dont like these textures, but was just wondering.



Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


Inspire
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 00:57 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 00:57
I would like to take a look at the segment he got working...

Cheese Cake
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 01:13
He said he was gonna post them soon or such.

But dont know for sure.


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


Ertlov
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 09:49
This is a segment, and the texture is grey by nature. I`ll do the same with something colorful...

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
Ertlov
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 13:42
Yes it works...

...but far from being perfect. It depends heavily on where the first light of the map was set during creation, it depends also on the angle of the mapped mesh if its rendered correctly, and the bump is being blurred away if yoou are more than two segments away from the wall.

But it works sufficient enough to make some eye candy rooms inside your levels. All you see here are segments ingame:



And here closer to the wall, which has colours (specially done for cheese cake):



Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
Sloan
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 19:05
Sweet! Any chance of giving us the specifics on initial light position and mesh angle?

Thanks.
Inspire
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 23:51
Is there a way you could upload this working segment for us to mess around with (watermark the texture though)?

Ertlov
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 23:57
Yes, of course. But it`s not the segment alone, I changed the fpe`s too, it`s like modding the stock segments, meshes and textures. I`ll try to get it all into one package and include a screen shot of the Editor with the position of the first light marked.

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
TGPEG
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 00:00
Quote: "Yes, of course. But it`s not the segment alone, I changed the fpe`s too, it`s like modding the stock segments, meshes and textures. I`ll try to get it all into one package and include a screen shot of the Editor with the position of the first light marked."


Wow, this is getting kind of complicated!
I can't wait to see proper shaders working in FPSC.

[center]
Ertlov
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 00:05
They don`t work perfectly, and please don`t expect miracles. But at least it works on about 60% of the surfaces we tried to map with Inspires idea.

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
TGPEG
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 00:07
60% is better than 0%!

[center]
Sloan
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 01:36
Agreed! and thanks for sharing!
SASHAH
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 06:19
Awesome bumpmapping pics mate any chance you could upload a small demo game build that employs the use of this bumpmapped wall, a rapidshare.de upoad or somethin. Or just a quick tutorial with some support files so us newbs can get bumpmapping on the go!!!

FPSC rocks!!!

cheers

sash
SBOVIS
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 14:46
sounds cool, all we need is a tutorial on how this is done Ertlov.

Great work!
fallen one
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 10:18
Any chance of uploading an example so we can play it and see it in action.

fpsc game KILL TV update 16 Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
SBOVIS
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 19:06
links not working for files, please update
rolfy
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 22:06
Tried this as you describe and it works fine.

SBOVIS
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 12:09
http://www.homegrowngames.at/goodies/bumpwall.zip

This link is not working for me?
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 12:10
Then try as he discribed it....

Its not that hard to do.


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


SBOVIS
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 12:22
Cheese Cake if you have examples please upload, this break through to FPSC needs to be documented with test examples I think. So all can work out how it is done and use it. One for all and all for one! I say
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 00:38
SBOVIS.
I dont have any examples....
But Ertlov explained how he did it...
So you could basically try to do the same thing...

But never tried this...so dont know if it works.


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 01:37
Hmmm...just ran into this thread and wondered if you all want
to achieve something like this :


SEGMENTS:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=75548&b=25
CHARACTER:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=80870&b=24

Normalmapping on entities is really easy.
The same with segments is a little bit harder, but if someone
wants to know i`ll write a little tutorial about it and
post a sample room demo with normalmapped stock media.



yeah...thats the ticket !
Inspire
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 01:57
I would love that, Mr Flowerkohl.

Try to get it out before the Phoenix compo ends, it will make the entire universe happy.

fallen one
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 02:27
Id like to see a map example, If you just follow the normal map example on the segment creator tut, well they dont work, Ive played other peoples games and the shaders mess the map up, all sorts of problems, plus they plain dont work, they just change the texture, they dont change as you move about, they dont react to light or position, so if anyone has a working example id like to see it, Ive yet to see one yet.

fpsc game KILL TV update 16 Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
Inspire
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 03:06
Yeah, I followed the tutorials step by step, to no avail.

fallen one
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 03:52
The tutorials that come with the fpsc segment editor, dont make any differance, the GC own segments dont have working bump maps, thats why I say, if youve got em and they work, put them up so I can download and see it for myself.

fpsc game KILL TV update 16 Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
Inspire
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 04:17
Exactly.

rolfy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 05:32 Edited at: 24th Oct 2007 06:31
O.k. here's an example.
I haven't put much work into this its just a test.
Below is two pics one with shaders on one without.
I have used only the one texture for both walls and floor
to save time and hassle but it does show things pretty well.
(this texture is actually for a column but it does the job.)

shaders off


shaders on


I have attached the files so you can check it out.
The stock normal and specular maps dont appear to work properly,
With the recent updates it has been noted that to get the shaders working on stock entities you have to delete the .dds files in the entitybank
folder,this forces FPSC to create new .dds files from the .tga files referenced by the fpe and then they work fine.
The segments however only have the old .dds files and there are no .tga files in there.
I have used the military base top segment for this but referenced the new textures which are placed in the texturebank folder.
The new copied military base top files are placed into a new folder in segments called 'normals' so nothing gets overwritten.

Perhaps you could convert the .dds files to tga for the stock wall and floor textures and delete the .dds files to get those working.
But I haven't tried this myself yet.

It should also be noted that when testing if you dont change the segments or light position then FPSC may skip the lightmapping
and produce the same results as the first test,so when going from shaders on or off move something around to reset.

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SBOVIS
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 12:19
Mr Flowerkohl - If you can do a step by step tutorial with example files for segments and characters that would be so cool!! then everyone would get a handle on this.
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 13:24 Edited at: 24th Oct 2007 13:29
I checked yours out rolfy but it didnt worked.
I have replaced the lights and turned FPSC on and off...
also i have switched the shaders on and off to see
if it would work this time...

So....my questions are....
Which place do i have to put the lightmarker on....
And also...does this only works on build-games?

---EDIT---
Nevermind it worked!
Thanks rolfy...the example was fine...now
i have to make my own normal mapped segments.


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 13:56
tutorial coming in about...2 hours !

yeah...thats the ticket !
Slayer222
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:18
OOO! I want to learn how to bump-map or whatever it is, my game might have an FPSC port after all.

EOT
[img][/img]
Check it out here: http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:27
Actually they are normal maps but....

Check Rolfy's example....and read the FPS...

It helped a lot...
Its very easy and doesnt need a whole tutorial...
since you can learn it in 2 seconds...

But for those that really "need" a tutorial,
since they cant figure the example out...then okey.

Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


Inspire
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:30 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 00:36
Well, I have the example, and it still doesn't work, and yes, I know what I'm doing. Just doesn't work. Full shaders are on.

EDIT: Never mind.

Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:33
Inspire.
Hmmm.....
Lighting needs to be dynamic....


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


Inspire
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:37
Wow, this whole time I thought that it meant to have the "Dynamic Lighting" option checked. Thank you!

Two questions:

Wouldn't all these dynamic lights seriously bog down your game's FPS?

Would I add static lights too, to lightmap my entities?

Another question, but I forgot it...

Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:40
Inspire.
I honestly dont know if dynamic lighting will slow
down the framerate....
I think it would compared to static.
If you would do both, then it would surely slow the framerate.
But i dont know if this would collapse with the normal-map.


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


rolfy
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:55 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 00:56
Dynamic lighting will bog down the fps,maybe just have one dynamic light if you must.
The example pics I posted did not have any dynamic lights in it nor was dynamic lighting turned on.
I just placed one static light in the scene.

Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:57
Hmmm....
I tried static lighting and notting happened...
While when i tried dynamic it suddenly worked.


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


rolfy
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 00:59
Try it again with dynamic lighting off.

Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 01:01 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 01:07
Will do...


I'll edit this post when i have done it.

---EDIT---
Nope only dynamic worked...


Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


rolfy
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 01:14 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 01:20
Everything may depend on your graphics card,I have found many differing problems on different systems.
Makes it kinda hard to create a game that will work the same on all computers tho' lol.
Is the lighting you placed dynamic,or static with dynamic lights checked in preferences?

Inspire
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 02:23
I have a brand new nVidia card, so I really don't see the problem its having.

fallen one
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 02:26
Im bogged down with work at the moment, so I havnt tested yet, but looking at Rolfys images, the floor has odd black lines on it, thats what happens if you use the shaders from the stock media, Im also betting that this texture doesnt react to when you move around like a true normal map would, but ill reserve judgement till I try it out.

fpsc game KILL TV update 16 Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 02:31
fallen one.
I have tested it..and there is nothing wrong with it..
No black lines.....well yeah that was a normal map.

And also it isnt the best effect, but thats FPSC.
It basically provides some more lines...which you can
use for somewhat more details.
Its not like parallax mapping or such.
But its better then nothing at all.

Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


fallen one
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 03:09
Is this the same as the default segments that come with the game, because when you move around they dont change, its just a change to the texture, its not a bump map, if you look at real normal maps they have depth, with fpsc stock segments, they have no depth, its just a change to the texture, its completly flat, and it doesnt change as you move around, its just a funny effect, not even an effect, plus they mess up like hell, ive played other peoples games and they just mess up stuff, bad frames, black walls, reversed so its all odd looking, they dont work, if people are doing new stuff they ill try it, if its just the same as whats on the stock segments then they dont work.
Id load this up and try only Im upgrading fpsc so I havnt put the new edition in yet and Im full on busy.
As far as Ive seen the only person to get shaders in is that ELe game, and they are not telling how they did it.

fpsc game KILL TV update 16 Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 03:14
fallen one.
Quote: "It basically provides some more lines...which you can
use for somewhat more details.
Its not like parallax mapping or such."



Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


fallen one
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 03:39 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 03:40
From what I see it does nothing that adding to the texture map could do, plus its a lot more work and takes power to not work correctly, Ill download the example but Im sure Im right its just an odd effect, Its better to do what Im doing on Kill TV and go for the look of a graphic novel or comic book, go for stylised.
Ill try it, perhaps it works some, but I just remember me playing games from on these boards and having the graphics all messed up.

fpsc game KILL TV update 16 Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 03:45
The normal maps from FPSC, arent that great...
But it sure is better then a segment without it.

Quote: "From what I see it does nothing that adding to the texture map could do"

Than you would have to edit the texture a lot.
...
See it like this:

You have a brick wall texture...
With some cracks in it...
Now those cracks look good but!
You want some more some tiny cracks.
For those you could use the normal map.

Now....it doesnt look that x10 kind of style.
And it doesnt "move".....its a simple normal map.
And for those that want to give their game a little bit more
detail...this is something that would help them.

Cheers,
Cheese Cake.


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