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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Don't let Disturbing 13 go!

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ASTECH
16
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Joined: 18th Jul 2007
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:18
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Sadly, he was mine as well.

-Astek Games Developer-
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Aaagreen
16
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Joined: 4th Sep 2007
Location: City 17
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:18
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I feel that i have been a victim and a causer...

Intel Pentium D Cpu 3.00GHz, NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT, 1GB RAM, Windows Xp...
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Cheese Cake
17
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Joined: 11th Dec 2006
Location: At the bakery
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:19
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Quote: "I would stay but I'm sorry guys I just can't do it anymore, this place used to be enjoyable. Until all the rules became so strict, and stupid. "

Its not the rules. Its more because everyone (what it looks like) doesnt want to see someone else his game.
Or when they do...they just want to have some fun and bash the thread full.

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Corky
User Banned
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:20
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Quote: "Its not the rules. Its more because everyone (what it looks like) doesnt want to see someone else his game.
Or when they do...they just want to have some fun and bash the thread full."


Yeah that to. This place used to be so fun...

Hopefully everybody can get it settled down.

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Cheese Cake
17
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Joined: 11th Dec 2006
Location: At the bakery
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:27
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Quote: "Yeah that to. This place used to be so fun...

Hopefully everybody can get it settled down."

Yeah it would be more fun.

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
18
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Joined: 5th Nov 2005
Location: Sierra vista in indonesia
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:27
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D13, CoZ, seems like all of my friends are leaving, im missing my calling card, farewell tgc forums.

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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Slayer_2
17
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Joined: 18th Sep 2006
Location: Anywhere I feel like
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:28
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Quote: " This is great.Every day I keep coming to the forums to find more people leaving.Terrific.
The only thing I have to ask before you all leave is that you think of the forum members that didn't actually create problems for you.
I don't want people to just up and start leaving."
You'll be happy to know your favorite bannite is staying. For now anyhow. I would bail, but EOT is too important to me. There are a few forum members who I liked and many I didn't know. However many of them, you included, seem to have a rather hostile attitude. Next time I get banned, I'm out of here. This forum is going downhill, fan-boys, newbs, unfair mods, people who diss others work and then go and ask for a dumb halo raptor or some other huge request and EXPECT it to be made for them, same with feature requests. Some guys asked for Crysis level features that no other game has. It's getting worse. And now this. Everybody, new or old, seems to be bailing out and maybe I should too.

[img][/img]
Go to Elite OPS Terrorstike in the Showcase.
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
18
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Location: Sierra vista in indonesia
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:29 Edited at: 12th Feb 2008 22:32
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Quote: "You'll be happy to know your favorite bannite is staying. For now anyhow. I would bail, but EOT is too important to me. There are a few forum members who I liked and many I didn't know. However many of them, you included, seem to have a rather hostile attitude. Next time I get banned, I'm out of here. This forum is going downhill, fan-boys, newbs, unfair mods, people who diss others work and then go and ask for a dumb halo raptor or some other huge request and EXPECT it to be made for them, same with feature requests. Some guys asked for Crysis level features that no other game has. It's getting worse. And now this. Everybody, new or old, seems to be bailing out and maybe I should too."



You know the old saying, out with the old, in with the new.


edit,

i know this isnt important, but this is the last post ill be posting here, if anyone wants my old blood pack, better jump on it now, im taking it down tommorow.

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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Seppuku Arts
Moderator
19
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:38
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First note, I've received one of those viruses about 4/5 years ago, seemed harmless, just annoying, dunno, didn't take long to remove it because these are poorly designed ones...

Question is, was the person on the sending end malicious in sending the virus, or were they like you and had received it from someone else?

As for the pain in the bum arguments, I occasionally look around the FPSC forums to see if anything interesting appears and the amount of idiot comments I see are unbelievable, hence I choose not to post and I can understand if for that reason you're deterred from staying in the community. However, if you get along with other members, is it really worth being offended? I mean you don't need to pay attention to people who enjoy being awkward or being moronic. (I'm not saying this is true about the whole FPSC community, I mean if the rest of TGC behaved like a lot of people do in these sections then I'd have myself a lot of quotes to use in internet anecdotes, I'm not trying to offend but a certain number people overly hotheaded and certainly need to learn not to take things so seriously or to get so worked up about trivial things, that way the mods might lighten the rules for you. Everybody is capable of human error, why persecute others for theirs?)

I can understand the leaving part in some respects, but I really don't think you should feel you have to leave on those terms, I don't think anybody should. I once thought about leaving TGC because I interpreted their facetious gestures as being a flaming remark...I remember posting in my early days on another forums with TGC members about how much Jeku and Aikicat/Megaton cat annoyed me, now I just think it's stupid.

Exit Pursued by man-bear-pig
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ASTECH
16
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Joined: 18th Jul 2007
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:43 Edited at: 12th Feb 2008 23:51
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So BloodDeath is leaving? Talk about taking them all down with you.
I wonder is this is the way that all forums just... you know, die?

Astek


Make the move to indiegamedev.net today! We're the fairest around!
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Zeppelin 37BDF
18
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Joined: 11th Jan 2006
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:52 Edited at: 12th Feb 2008 22:53
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I hate to see everyone go.


Well, this is probably my last post as well. I'm packing up camp and leaving, because I'm getting pretty sick and tired of all of the acid-spewing and other nonsense that has been happening lately. I may check back once and a while, but I am out of here.

Farewell fellow TGC members and I wish the best of luck on all of your future endeavors,

-Brian

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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
18
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Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:55 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 13:31
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*removed by RF


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ASTECH
16
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Joined: 18th Jul 2007
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:56 Edited at: 12th Feb 2008 23:51
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Wow... this is going to be in the news letter for sure.
Everyone leaving... Hmm, I wonder what the headline will be?

Astek


Make the move to indiegamedev.net today! We're the fairest around!
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fallen one
17
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Joined: 7th Aug 2006
Location: My imagination!
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 23:30
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Id say there is a good chance I will be leaving for IDG, I thought about it months ago, I checked out the IDG forums then and thought it was more my place, now with everone else most likerly thining and feeling the same as I did/do, it looks like I may be moving over myself, at the moment Im a little busy, but Ill go over there boards for a good look around, If I like what I see, then im over there as well.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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TGPEG
17
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Joined: 28th Dec 2006
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 23:43
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Well just so as you all know,I'll be joining IDG as well, but just because I've joined there doesn't mean I won't be coming back here once a day to check.

I believe this is like an ice-age every so often, the forums drop a couple of long-time members who move on, and then the rest of us move up the hierarchy as it were.

Maybe I'm trying to make meaning out of mediocre, so do as you will.

Goodbye to those who are departing and Good-day to those who're staying.

[center]
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creator of zombies
18
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Joined: 16th Feb 2006
Location: UK: West Wales
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 23:44
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Dont worry guys. Read my DS thread. I just discovered a few things that made me change my mind completely, along with a sudden burst of inspiration (dont ask from where!)



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ASTECH
16
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Joined: 18th Jul 2007
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 23:51
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Glad to see you haven't left us completely!

Astek


Make the move to indiegamedev.net today! We're the fairest around!
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TGPEG
17
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Joined: 28th Dec 2006
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Feb 2008 23:59
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Actually... I want my opinion known.

All this talk of the forum 'Burning to the Ground' and 'Dieing' (sorry to pick on you ASTEK) is utter rubbish. During my relatively short period of time here, there has been a few occasions where I braced myself and saw and end coming.
But it never has.
These forums have and will continue to be a strong asset to game developers using TGC software. The fact is that locked in the pages of these forums is literally everything you need to get your creative sparks flying and to make a darn good game. More and more people are buying TGC and specifically FPSC X9/X10 products by the day, and this means that there will always be more fresh people passing through the forum.

It is ridiculous to think that the departure of a few members is going to be like judgment day for these forums... of course it's not. Please stop inciting drama and chaos and just accept that a few members are leaving and going to another forum. It's not going to change your life so stop 'fear baiting' and leave it alone.

There it is... I've said it.

[center]
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ASTECH
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 00:22 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 00:26
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We'll you've joined IDG haven't you? Yes.
Haven't you noticed that all the ones that are leaving are
some of the oldest members and even some legends?
The forum is dying in a sense because it's losing some of it's best.
Now it might not be literally "burning to the ground" right now...
who know what's going to happen tomorrow? What if every single "good"
forumer left? Then it's a picnic day for the noobs! And by burning to
the ground... that was a statement on how the community made the good guys leave... and others.

There... I've said my side.

Astek


Make the move to indiegamedev.net today! We're the fairest around!
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Nomad Soul
Moderator
17
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Joined: 9th Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 00:51
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Mods

I think now would be a good time to lock this.

Butterfingers knows better than to start a thread like this. Making threads about people leaving almost always becomes an opportunity to sound off about TGC, mods, the forums or people that frequent them. It is unproductive and used to be banned.

If people are that serious about leaving they should just do so rather than trying to turn their own personal issues into a popularity contest to see who else will jump on the wagon.

Its a shame and I expected a little more integrity from some that are now claiming their leaving bearing in mind they have been just as guilty of acting in the manner they now cannot tolerate.

I agree there are too many threads slipping through the net which are personal requests or questions most of us have looked up and got the answer to but thats for the mods to deal with. Flaming promotes flaming.

Anyway. Whilst everyone else is having their pennies worth, how about doing away with drama queen threads and focusing on development for a change. You've obviously got too much free time on your hands.

LOL
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Zdrok
17
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Joined: 19th Dec 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 00:57
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Well, I for one am staying here. I think that, under all of the locked threads and (some) rude newcomers, this is a great forum. I may sound stupid, but TGC is my e-family, and I'd never leave.

End of opinion,
~AI

Failure to Cooperate
Coming to a PC near you.
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Cheese Cake
17
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Joined: 11th Dec 2006
Location: At the bakery
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 00:58 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 00:58
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Quote: "Anyway. Whilst everyone else is having their pennies worth, how about doing away with drama queen threads and focusing on development for a change. You've obviously got too much free time on your hands."

Uhhh...okey (even though it sounds funny) but you are saying that what butters and the others did is not allowed or right for this forum...
But we do have to tolerate that sort of attack on fellow forum members?

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Nomad Soul
Moderator
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Joined: 9th Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 01:12
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Quote: "Uhhh...okey (even though it sounds funny) but you are saying that what butters and the others did is not allowed or right for this forum..."


Thats exactly what I'm saying. There was a whole bunch of these 'Im Leaving' threads a while back and to FredP's credit, he had enough and locked them.

All these threads do is turn into a flame war of one description or another which isn't a productive way to use thread space.

I don't want to see D13 go anymore than anyone else but this is clearly spreading negative vibes which I don't agree with. Butters may have started this thread for the right reasons but he's been around long enough to know how they pan out.

D13 should take up any issues he has directly with a mod so something can be done about it with confidentiality and integrity.

It's up to the community to act together and prevent the activities being talked about here from becoming acceptable. I would just rather spend my time reading about FPSC rather than someones personal journal.
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
18
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 01:24 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 01:33
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Quote: "Mods

I think now would be a good time to lock this."

lol
There ya go, that's just what they need.
lol

Quote: "Well, I for one am staying here. I think that, under all of the locked threads and (some) rude newcomers, this is a great forum. I may sound stupid, but TGC is my e-family, and I'd never leave."

Amen brutha!

Quote: "I'm not trying to offend but a certain number people overly hotheaded and certainly need to learn not to take things so seriously or to get so worked up about trivial things...I remember posting in my early days on another forums with TGC members about how much Jeku and Aikicat/Megaton cat annoyed me, now I just think it's stupid."

Yeah, I agree.
Like those hotheads that run to other forums to continue the arguement with people who weren't even in it.

Here is the way I see it...
Is that the first forum those guys had? ...NO!
Why? Because as long as you are advertising where you are going, then these hotheads will follow you.
What makes you think that they won't target those forums like they did TGC's, and the ones they had before?
I tried to start an outside forum myself, and it is just asking for trouble.
But if you guys want to take the headaches away from TGC, then more power to ya!

There is an old saying..."You can run, but you can't hide.".
Your problems will follow you until you deal with them.
Running is no solution.

We should all work together to make this forum great, and the best way to start is to bury the hatchet on all those prior petty differences.
These clicks are what divides the community.

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Inspire
17
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Joined: 23rd Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 01:24
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It's a shame to see all of the older FPSC'ers leave for IGD, even though I'm over there quite often. Looking at some of these people's work (like Butters and D13) got me into game design, it's a shame to no longer have 'em around here anymore.

Hm...I'm probably gonna just go to IGD, or up the DBP forums. I'll return when I have something interesting to show.

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ASTECH
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 01:25
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Well... I'm just going to sit back and shut-up. I realize that
there's no use crying over spilled milk.

Astek


Make the move to indiegamedev.net today! We're the fairest around!
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
18
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Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 01:29 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 13:31
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*removed by RF*


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fallen one
17
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Joined: 7th Aug 2006
Location: My imagination!
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 01:52 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 01:53
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Quote: "Thats exactly what I'm saying. There was a whole bunch of these 'Im Leaving' threads a while back and to FredP's credit, he had enough and locked them."

Who cares what FredP does, people are leaving and that's that, also notice, the people that are leaving are the more experienced people, that should tell people something.
Id say the issue is more serious than some would believe at first glance when high profile users up and leave. I think this is a bigger issue, and it sends some serious issues out about the situation, both to the boards and to TGC as a whole and also to the indie development scene at large with this happening withing TGC community, its certainly not good advertising for them with the release of fpsc dx10 on the horizon now TGC are trying to pick up a retail publisher.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
18
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 02:11 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 02:19
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Quote: "Some of the issues are of a public interest, wouldn't you agree?"

I don't know what happened to D13 in that other thread, but everything here is of public interest.

Quote: "There are issues running around that need to be addressed and not disregarded as simply complaining, though it seems that everything that has been talked about thus far has been labeled as such. Which is very sad IMHO."

Yeah, but there are so many repetitive threads of the same old complaints that its hard to see the real requests.

There is a big difference between a request and a complaint.
If you have a bug to report, then report it.
If you have a suggestion or request to make, then make it.
If you have a complaint about the bugs or requests then go pout to yourself.

Quote: "I think this is a bigger issue, and it sends some serious issues out about the situation, both to the boards and to TGC as a whole and also to the indie development scene at large with this happening withing TGC community, its certainly not good advertising for them with the release of fpsc dx10 on the horizon now TGC are trying to pick up a retail publisher."

Again I missed the D13 thread and I am not trying to get a recap or drag it back up.

But it seems everyone keeps saying things like "this issue", "this situation", or "these problems".

My only problem is that no one has really said what their problem is.

Is it that people think Fred is ban/lock happy?

Is it that they get upset, because the people they argue with understand how to follow the rules better than them?

Is it that some jerk spread a virus?

What is going on here?

Nobody has flat out said what the problem is, and I do not see how it can be corrected by running away instead of dealing with.

Will someone please tell me how the TGC forums are that bad?

Can they help it that some jerk came here and started a virus?

This whole thing makes no sense to me, it's almost like the monkey see monkey do thing.
I fail to see how TGC has let anyone down at all.


Quote: "the people that are leaving are the more experienced people, that should tell people something"

Yeah, it tells me that even a noob has more desire to be a game maker than some of the so called experts.
That is the difference, they stay to learn and then its byby when they think they don't need help anymore.
That's cool. Again its all a part of the growth process. To each his own, so move on.
Good luck guys

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Nomad Soul
Moderator
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 02:22
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Quote: "Some of the issues are of a public interest, wouldn't you agree?"


To an extent but the thread started going downhill after the issue had been identified and discussed. That was at the end of the first page.

Quote: "Nomad soul do you know what integrity means? You sure do use it bunch."


I understand its meaning but I did use it twice ridiculously

Quote: "You don't get it do you?"


My understanding of free will is limited at best therefore it would be foolish to assume your proposal isn't the correct one or that mine was any better considered.

Look I just don't understand why the community isn't focusing on the fact they own the best game development software in the world right now.

FPSC is now the foremost gaming fantasist's religion of choice and we should all give consideration to this before making irrational decisions about moving to other forums.

Nobody in their right mind will leave these forums it's been proven already. Let the prodical sons have their experiences. We shall welcome them back with open arms when they return empty handed.

FPSC is the only thing that matters now.
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
18
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 02:28 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 02:29
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Quote: "We shall welcome them back with open arms when they return empty handed."

Or full handed.
I really hope they do well, and I think that most of them will.

I see the team requests and collaboration as the foundation that the others want to build on. (that's cool too)

I have a feeling that we will be seeing great things out of those guys this year.
But I also think that the guys who remain here will be okay too.

Only time will tell, I just hope they welcome us as well and don't get an us & them state of mind.
Because no matter where you go, if you are using FPSC than you are still part of the FPSC 'e-family'.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
18
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Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 02:48
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CE, I do believe I spelled out the problem for you and I understand the point you are making and agree with most of it.

Quote: "There is a big difference between a request and a complaint.
If you have a bug to report, then report it.
If you have a suggestion or request to make, then make it.
If you have a complaint about the bugs or requests then go pout to yourself."


True, though not exactly what has been discussed. I think that is where the communication disconnect has taken place. This is not about anything in that list. it has do with members of this forum getting support from our own mods when outside people come in stir up trouble and then firebomb our users messengers with viruses regardless of what type of virus it may have been. If we can not even get support from our mods on these types fo issues then what is the point of sticking around?


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Urlforce Studios
17
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 02:53
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Quote: "return empty handed"


Are you kidding me? I use IGD for beta testing Lemur etc. Why? because over there I can communicate with the admins/mods 1 on 1, if I need something like a hidden board to upload my files it's there. They have basically the same thing as here except they arent tied directly to TGC, so they can "live" without worrying about politically correct posts. I'm not saying it's a 60s convention over there, but I feel over there it's personal and professional, over here it's just professional.

It's like comparing a pub on the corner and a big name brewery, one place you're free to spend the night if you've had one too many and the other they'll call you a cab.

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FredP
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 06:05
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Okay I keep hearing this about mods are supposed to do this or that.What am I expected to do?As a strict interpretation of the AUP if someone releases a product and someone else makes an clone of it I can't do anything unless the latter has stolen the former's media or has in some way violated the AUP.
Keith made a statement about the viruses already.Any issues about those and proof thereof can be e-mailed to him.
As far as the other issue what can I do about it?Point me to anywhere in the AUP where it says I or any other mod can do something about it.
My personal opinions and how I feel about any of this is irrelevant.My job as a moderator is to enforce the AUP.You can get as mad at me as you want to but we all have rules to follow and that includes me.
As far as I know no other moderator is going to be able to do anything about the first issue either.
There are a wide vairety of assumptions and misconceptions about moderators and one is that we rule without impunity.I assure you that is not the case.
In all fairness most forum members that have never offended anyone or violated the AUP and problems such as these affect them and that is wrong.
In regards to us being too strict I don't know about the other fourms but in the FPSC forums it is very necessary to have a strict set of rules.
If you had been here back in the old days you would understand this.
There was a point where everybody just did whatever the deuce they wanted and said and did whatever they wished to each other.
That crap ain't happening again.
I don't know what to tell you guys.Some of you have been a part of this community for a long time and I have worked with you and done business with you and I will miss you if you leave.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
18
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Joined: 5th Nov 2005
Location: Sierra vista in indonesia
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 06:14
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Quote: "What am I expected to do?"


i personally arnt leaving because of mods being to strict too loose w/e because i remember the old days But what i would have expected the mods to do about this whole red devil copying everyones idea was atleast to not allow the distribution on this site. becuase i mean there is one thing, Friendly competition, thats all fair and well, but when the sole purpose of the pack is to undercut the person and basically take all their sales, and keep most of the best contributers to fpsc stop making things because of this undercut, yes i expect mods to do something, instead of stand around and let that happen, becuase you know as well as i do, that isnt fair. And you also know as well as i do, that red devil and his gang, are the reason for most everyone thats leaving.

i mean can you see all the chaos that red devil and his henchmen have brought? everything was all peace-y and tranquil until all of their nonsense.

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
18
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 06:16 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 06:51
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Quote: "This is not about anything in that list. it has do with members of this forum getting support from our own mods when outside people come in stir up trouble "

Oh, its about wanting favoritism.
I understand now what is going on.

Quote: "My personal opinions and how I feel about any of this is irrelevant.My job as a moderator is to enforce the AUP.You can get as mad at me as you want to but we all have rules to follow and that includes me."

Well said Fred

Quote: "And you also know as well as i do, that red devil and his gang, are the reason for most everyone thats leaving"

I hope you don't mean me?!?!?!?

I use the red devil on my posts!

Quote: "becuase i mean there is one thing, Friendly competition, thats all fair and well, but when the sole purpose of the pack is to undercut the person and basically take all their sales"

Friendly competition? I never knew there was such a thing.
Your competition wants your sale, because there is direct competition (Ford vs. Chevy), indirect competition (Pizza Hut & McDonalds), and then there is what I call universal competition, which means they are all competing for the same consumer dollar.
One purchase can have a impact on the other products, because it may sway the customer away from your product.
For instance; I opt to choose a Mercedes over the Yugo, now I have to buy a burger instead of a Pizza because my extra money is tight.
Had I bought that Yugo I could have had beer with my pizza and an ice cream afterwards.
The competition wants your sale and your money, so they are not your friends.
We are not here to stab each other in the back, but not everyone here is doing this as a hobby.

Who is this 'red devil' anyway?
You talking about the German guy that made a ButterCutter?
That is like saying the Lemur team should stop work because TGC already has plans to upgrade v1.
Remember we are making tools to use with FPSC, its not like we built an anti-gravitational device that will revolutionize the auto industry.
Having more than one tool gives us choices, and we don't need monopolies either.
What are we going to do, draw straws for add-on rights?


Quote: "i mean can you see all the chaos that red devil and his henchmen have brought?"

Seems to me like the chaos exists even when they are gone.
Was it their actions that were chaotic, or was it everyone's reaction to it?
Probably both, but all I am saying is that it seems like a trivial disagreement if that is what it was over. (an add-on?)
I wish I hadn't missed that one, I feel like I'm blind.
Since I did miss it, I will shut up now.
I just hate to see these people leave.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 06:59 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 07:08
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I have tried to not post my thoughts on the situation but I just can't help myself...

When Locrian made the school daze pack it's because he felt people were being ripped off by the alternative pack which had been made available for sale... By making that pack he surely lost its creator some of it's sales... Yet nobody here (at least not that I can recall) said it was bad and shouldn't be allowed... Now that a German user has done what is essentially the same thing people have taken it personally... Admittedly this is the 2nd(?) time he has done this but it's still the same...

With regards to the sending of the virus... if D13 has proof that red devil (or one of his friends) sent him the virus the best thing he can do is report it to the appropriate authorities... I'm fairly sure it's illegal to intentionally send a virus in Germany (as it is in most countries) so report him and get him done for it...

I really think it's unfair to call out the mods and berate them for allowing the pack to be posted about... It doesn't matter (well at least not to me) if a free version of a pack is made available if I originally intended to buy it... I will still buy to support other developers who are trying to make a bit of money for their hard work... I have bought many of the packs which have been made available by the community some of which I may never use in my games but I bought them to show my support of other's in this community...

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just post my opinion on the subject... I really think it's a shame that the actions of a few impact on the rest of the community... unfortunately this happens all the time in real life and on the internet... all are punished for the actions of a few...

EDIT
added the word intentionally.. obviously if the virus you have got sends itself to other people that wouldn't be illegal...

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 07:10 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 07:12
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Quote: "... I will still buy to support other developers who are trying to make a bit of money for their hard work... I have bought many of the packs which have been made available by the community some of which I may never use in my games but I bought them to show my support of other's in this community"

Right on! Hey Thraxas, don't forget that I have some skyboxes and a game scheduled for release you can buy......Just kidding

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Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Location: The Avenging Axe, Turai
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 07:25
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Quote: "Right on! Hey Thraxas, don't forget that I have some skyboxes and a game scheduled for release you can buy......Just kidding"


For that bit of shameless self advertising I just bought your street pack...

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jonathan samson
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 07:32
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more then 4 people left sad to here that. i won't be leaving this is my home...

j.samson
My beauty it is my sin.
Work in Progress...
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TDK
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Location: UK
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 07:41
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I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Not being an FPSC user, I don't attempt to moderate on any of the FPSC boards - better to leave that to those who know the client a little better.

I do read these boards once and a while though.

So, my comments are from both a moderator and just someone who has been programming computers in one way or another since the late 1970's.

I've written commercial software and seen the same idea pop up a few months later as freeware. Yes it pissed me off at the time, but I knew there was very little I could do about it.

As has been said already, what is important is not how you feel when it happens to you, but how you react.

Most freeware stuff you can get at the moment was probably written as a copy of some other commercial program. No doubt when Firefox came out, it put a dint in the registration/sales of Netscape.

Same goes for all the free modellers that are available and many of us happily use so we don't have to pay Caligari and Autodesk... if we don't want to.

But they are still here working harder to make their products and support so much better quality than the freebies that we want to buy them rather than use a free alternative.

The point is, it may be annoying, unpalatable or whatever - the point is that it's not illegal and it doesn't break any rules here on the forums - however much it leaves a nasty taste in our mouths.

Which brings me to the moderation aspect.

It's difficult to please everyone, but mods take action when someone steps over the line - the drawing of which we have absolutely no control over.

We have a set of rules to apply and we try to do it without bias or favouritism.

I have been berated in the past because I've banned someone for breaking the rules, whereas the mods on here are (unfairly in my opinion) being blamed because they haven't 'stood behind' some of you in an attack on someone who hasn't broken a single rule.

But that's all mods are here for. Not to be judgemental or side with anyone - just to keep the peace and act on those who step over that all important line in the hope of deterring others from doing the same.

People leave forums. People use other forums. It's always happened.

It's sad to see valued members of any community move on, but it's not the end of civilisation as we know it. Life goes on and many do actually come back when they've cooled down and realised that the grass isn't quite as green as it looked from the other side of the fence...

The one advantage of these forums is that as unlike other forums they belong to the company that produce the products we all know and love. As such, there's more likelyhood of getting news and information a lot quicker - as well as getting your ideas across to them.

If anyone leaves and never comes back, they are losing out as much as those who stay.

TDK_Man

* TDK's Game Programming Forums - Open To All - DB & Team Request Boards *

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 07:46
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Quote: "Okay I keep hearing this about mods are supposed to do this or that.What am I expected to do?As a strict interpretation of the AUP if someone releases a product and someone else makes an clone of it I can't do anything unless the latter has stolen the former's media or has in some way violated the AUP.
Keith made a statement about the viruses already.Any issues about those and proof thereof can be e-mailed to him.
As far as the other issue what can I do about it?Point me to anywhere in the AUP where it says I or any other mod can do something about it.
My personal opinions and how I feel about any of this is irrelevant.My job as a moderator is to enforce the AUP.You can get as mad at me as you want to but we all have rules to follow and that includes me.
As far as I know no other moderator is going to be able to do anything about the first issue either.
There are a wide vairety of assumptions and misconceptions about moderators and one is that we rule without impunity.I assure you that is not the case.
In all fairness most forum members that have never offended anyone or violated the AUP and problems such as these affect them and that is wrong.
In regards to us being too strict I don't know about the other fourms but in the FPSC forums it is very necessary to have a strict set of rules.
If you had been here back in the old days you would understand this.
There was a point where everybody just did whatever the deuce they wanted and said and did whatever they wished to each other.
That crap ain't happening again.
I don't know what to tell you guys.Some of you have been a part of this community for a long time and I have worked with you and done business with you and I will miss you if you leave."



My beef with these forums isn't with the mods, Fred, you all are fine. It's the fact that most of the people who use these forums. By these I mean the FPSC portion, usually view a post-take from it-and never are seen again, never say thank you or offer critic that helps.

I'm not saying everyone MUST reply to every thread they view, but that the idea of this forum, the reason for it's existence has changed from users communicating, to users taking. Like leaving the phone off the hook and that tone starts. You get people who's only reason for being here is to get an answer- then their gone. You can easily see that in the ones who make accounts withthe subject of their future question as their name. That is what is weakening this forum.

Then you have the people who deliberately make a product to undermine another user. NO there is nothing a mod can do that is PC enough.

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:06 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 08:21
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Quote: "Then you have the people who deliberately make a product to undermine another user. NO there is nothing a mod can do that is PC enough."

Then you have those that assume that without knowing the full story.
Take my ceSky for instance. I have people telling me that I was copying another program.
Well guess what, I never used his program, but I did see it and I did read the license.
His was free but not for commercial use, and I needed a program for my skyboxes but for commercial use.
So, I made my own little tool. Is it as good as his? Probably not, but like I like I said; I never used his so I woudn't know.
I did not release mine to the community to undermine his program as some people suggest.
I needed, I made it, and I decided to share it with the community for free.
What is wrong with that?
Why should I have to buy his when I can make my own?
Why can't I share what I create, because it is not the same thing as his, its mine. (nobody owns an idea)
So, for the record I did nothing but offer the community a free program that some people have thanked me for.

Here is another example... I was already working on a 'punch pack' and had about 4 or 5 punches made when Butters announced his ButterCutter.
Was I copying him? NO, but if I had released it then that is what everyone would have said, so I kept it for myself.
Why should the community miss out because of the greed of those who wish to have a monopoly?
I see nothing wrong with creating something as a freebie for the community even if one does exist.
Hey man, I made a shooter game with FPSC, and now everyone is making shooter games and giving them away free.
Get over it, because with over 7 Billion people in the world, you will run into things that seem similar.
So, had I released my 'punch pack', then it would have been me they were trying to lynch, even though I wasn't copying him?

If you don't like people offering products for free, then close your business now, because that is the future of marketing.
Read Lee's tip of the month in the newsletter and you will understand why we give stuff away.
It goes back to what he said .. its hard to sell something when there is a free one next to it.
We know this, and unfortunately that is the way the world is headed.
Adapt to this change if you want to survive.

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:21
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Quote: "Read Lee's tip of the month in the newsletter and you will undestand why we give stuff away."


If everyone gave everything away there would not have been as many breakthroughs dude. Butters does amazing stuff. The money you pay keeps the juices in his brain flowing, it makes it worth while to think outside the box. Ask Lee if he would have given away FPSC x9. Or x10. He wouldn't say yes. Everyone is looking to make money. Thats what gets most people to buy fpsc. AND 3dsmax AND photoshop.

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:25 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 08:33
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Quote: "If everyone gave everything away there would not have been as many breakthroughs dude. Butters does amazing stuff. The money you pay keeps the juices in his brain flowing, it makes it worth while to think outside the box. "

Thinking out of the box is exactly what you guys are NOT doing right now.
You are sticking to the same old same old as the world around you changes.
Nobody is saying to stop making money. We are saying that you need to find new ways to generate the revenue other than the end user.
That means advertising. This free method to the public at the expense of the advertisors worked in the TV industry for over half a century now.
Today, they are doing away with analog television, and the digital service charges you and has commercials.
Is anyone complaining? No, because you now get clearer channels and more of them.
Things change and you had better start thinking out of the box in other areas than the game design or add-ons if you are doing this for money.

Quote: "Ask Lee if he would have given away FPSC x9. Or x10. He wouldn't say yes."

I'm not so sure. I imagine he might if the right advertiser came along with a nice offer.
After all, if Lee were in this only for the money, then you would be paying alot more than $50 to $70 for these engines.
You all know they are worth more.

Quote: "Everyone is looking to make money. Thats what gets most people to buy fpsc. AND 3dsmax AND photoshop."

That is just the point.
If Photoshop or 3DS Max made more off advertising then maybe all of us could afford them.
I use neither because of those programs because of the price.
But if they had a free version with ads in it then I would gladly use them.

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:32
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Quote: "Things change and you had better start thinking out of the box in other areas that the game design or add-ons."


I can see ads in games. I cannot reason advertising to the developer. They pay you to do the work for them. Don't assume you will get Mineral Water sponsoring a cave pack thats being sold to developers who drink mountain dew. If it aint broke-don't fix it.

The worlds changing because Lee wrote that in the newsletter.

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:34 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 08:42
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Quote: "The worlds changing because Lee wrote that in the newsletter."

I knew he was a god.

Okay then, don't beleive us, but consider this.

You announce a game release for the future (say six months).
You know you need pre-release advertising for a successful sale, right?
Well what happens, you guessed it.
There are a bunch of companies now in a race to copy-cat your game idea.
What do you do? Not much, because you based all of your revenue on direct sales, and now you can't compete.
Had you had advertising in place and were already saying the game was going to be released for free... the the copy-cats have no reason to 'steal your idea'.
It seems unprofitable so they move on to the next guy who isn't using advertising for revenue.

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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:35
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Wow, it's 6/7 years ago already!.

Seriously, pretty much exactly this happend with a texture transition tool back in the DB Classic days, before this forum even existed. I think it was Dr.Avalanche who made the program initially, then this idiot imbedded it in a Blitz executable so it would appear that it was made in Blitz2D, even though the damn ugly DBClassic mouse pointer was still there .

This stuff happens, but when it happens it's really a sign that the forum is evolving. It's not a case of missing features these days, it's a case of too many features and toes being stamped on, and arrogant gits who easily forget where their software comes from. There is absolutely nothing any of us can do to stop it. Any minute now someones gonna start work on an MMORPG plugin that they'll never finish, the horror!.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 08:44 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 09:17
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Quote: "and arrogant gits who easily forget where their software comes from. There is absolutely nothing any of us can do to stop it. Any minute now someones gonna start work on an MMORPG plugin that they'll never finish, the horror!"

Oh come on VanB, fess up.
You know we all have abandoned a MMORPG at one time or another ...lol

Did you know that Bioshock could have gotten the idea for its under water city from a TGC forum user?

I remember a guy here in the forums suggesting to me that he wanted to do an underwater environment for his game.
His idea was compared to spongebob I think, and disregarded by the others in the thread.
Yet when that big name game came out, all the reviews went on and on about the underwater world and its uniqueness.

Go figure.

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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 13th Feb 2008 11:24 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 13:32
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***removed by rf


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