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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Don't let Disturbing 13 go!

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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 11:39 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 11:40
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My comments on this:

1. We mods cannot stop somebody releasing copycat software
2. Unfortunately, we must take action against anyone who abuses the AUP in retaliation

So my first recommendation would be to ignore anything that you feel should not be supported by the community. Ranting in a thread won't change anyone's mind, it will only draw attention to it. You won't stop people using a free product, but at the same time you can actively encourage developers and users together by supporting them with positive feedback. Just don't do it in a thread relating to a competitive product, tit-for-tat makes you just as bad.

As a community, it's very possible to show appreciation of the long-standing, hard-working, innovative members. But you can't do that if you're spending time ranting at the wrong people.

That may sound a little harsh, but I think people can turn what is perceived as a bad situation into something positive.

As for virus attacks et al, you should report these to your ISP and the provider of any service that is being used to transmit the virus. That is out of the juristiction of this forum and the mods.
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FredP
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 12:27
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How this post came to be about me is a mystery.I said I personally did not want to see D13 and the others go.I also said that as a moderator I could do nothing about the issues at hand.I even asked the other mods to post here to verify this and they were nice enough to do so.
I can't make everybody happy and only my shrink likes it when I try.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 13:29 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 13:47
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It's a shame to see people moving to such a community that is a fraction the size of this one.

Still, I'm sure we'll get some people back when they realise they don't get as much attention on those forums.

Multisync - TCP Server/Client Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 13:30
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Fred I sent you an email in an attempt to try and describe my problem, it has nothing to do with you personally. I am going through to edit my previous posts as I no doubt was a bit to harsh.


Cheers,
Dave


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TGPEG
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 13:39 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 14:03
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<edit>

[center]
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 13:43
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@TGPEG- did you not read what I have written? So does the fact that I stated that I had emailed Fred to work our issues out and the fact that I edited my previous posts mean that you have to respond with that?

Reason number 442 why people are leaving the forums, posting a comment about an issue that is being resolved in an attempt to get a harsh reaction form the original poster. YAY! and the cycles starts all over again...good job mate!


Best,
Dave


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TGPEG
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 13:49 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 14:02
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Actually, RF, you're right. I'll stop adding fuel to the flames and shutup.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 15:17
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What people are failing to realise here is the irrelevancy of a handful of users trying to make a name for themselves by leaving for another forum.

FPSC is the only important thing and the updates Lee has now published for v2 and current performance enhancements being made for v1.08 far outweigh the loss of some over inflated ego's.

Maybe it's not such a bad idea to trim a little fat from the forums. I've never had time for the pack mentality that exists between some of the more senior members anyway. Their not half as prolific as they'd like to think.

If all they want is a new forum to dwell in and praise each other on how great they are, we're better off without them. New forums come and go, as do forum members. As long as we have Lee, FPSC and the worthwhile community members that aren't signing up to this nonsense, we're in good shape.

I can't wait for all the 'I'm Back' threads to come when all of this blows over.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 15:30
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Quote: "Red Devil
User


Joined: Wed Mar 7th 2007
Location: Mönchengladbach / Germany"


That is really scary...I used to live there - the scary thing is, that's the place of my fondest memories, where I though highly of the Germans there for their kindness and generosity and decency...this forum member proves the complete opposite to that sentiment.

I can see why people have picked up a dislike here, I mean I was looking through some of the offending German-user posts (partially because I talk to Higgins on MSN and I remember him talking about Red Devil on MSN and well, I'm sure you'll notice due to the number of his posts that have been edited, that he had quite a colourful language when describing the situation, though not very rational, but understandable)

I always think it a shame to see people act immature on a forum, but lets be honest, TGC is a huge forum you're going to get idiots, bigots and any kind of irritating character - some do it by means that don't break the AUP and mods have no 'grounds' to punish them (that aren't in conflict with their duties.) and I think it's really in general that you're going to get wound up by somebody on a forum this size.

But to be honest, despite the hassle of some members and people's idiotic nature I enjoy this community, you just need to push your heads round...regulars and dedicate members tend to stick and get along and that's what great about the community - in fact it's quite nice to see people from different backgrounds share common interests, heck it's almost amusing to actually see a Jewish guy, a Muslim, Christians, atheists, a Buddhist and a Satanist discuss topics in agreement and carry similar sentiments.

From reading the FPSC forums, I notice you get your number of crap stirrers, heck some of the members complaining here I've seen stir it once before (but clearly have learned from their errors, I won't name names or situations though).

The whole 'I'm leaving thing' I think is overly dramatic, yeah you may get a negative vibe and you don't hate it, but before long you'll remember why you post here and some things you've taken to offense might appear silly in the future. Best way is not to allow yourselves to get worked up in the community, petty idiots are everywhere in life and unfortunately sooner or later you'll learn not cringe so much at them. (Though some people are pretty painful to listen to) People do it to get noticed, to get one up on their ego, to try and make themselves look better than you to hide their own inadequacies.

This is true in the forum world and the real world. Don't let people cause you to tear you hair out, ignoring them out of your consciousness is one way to avoid them, or dismiss their idiotisms.

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rolfy
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 16:53
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This whole thing seems to have got everyone at each others throats and thats whats sad about it.When I first got into FPSC I had accepted that I would probably get so far with it then run into a brick wall with my lack of knowledge,its thanks to many of the great thinkers on these forums that I am still using it.
To me this place has been a great scource of knowledge and I genuinely like most of the characters who hang around here,if I have ever been stuck with anything then someone will always chip in with an answer to my problem.
I think it would be a great loss to these forums if these members up roots and move elsewhere as they take with them a lot of skill and knowledge about the product.
I dont believe that any of them have any issues with the mods over this as has been suggested,most of them have been around long enough to be know that there is not much they can do about the current situation,it should be noted however that many of the mods have jumped in here to show that they do understand the situation and are not blind to what has been going on.
I dont know what could be done to stop a migration of our best minds from these forums as it appears that there is something of a show of hands going on here,I know this wasn't asked for by anyone and the initial gist of this thread was to stop D13 from leaving but it seems to be in danger of turning into a 'brotherhood' kinda deal.
To be honest I have always respected anyone who gives away free media,I've given away a lot of it myself, but I would never create a pack based on something that a fellow developer was tryng to sell, and that is the heart of this issue, its a matter of respect.Red Devil has done this not once but twice and in my opinion he's doing this deliberately to stir up this community.In that he has succeeded and he has now disappeared and left this forum a shambles.


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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 17:25
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well put rolfy


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 18:09
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Quote: "
Who cares what FredP does, people are leaving and that's that, also notice, the people that are leaving are the more experienced people, that should tell people something.
"


Perhaps the prodigal "leaving the nest"? FPSC isn't meant for great things, even with Lemur, the amazing piece of kit that it is, it'll still be prejudiced against...

Look at Anderson and the Legend of Cthulhu...Ertlov spent ages working on that game, and what happened, it got 19/100 from PCGamer.People are realising that no matter how many "high-quality" FPSC games they make, they'll still be in the playing-Pen of Game Creation...

Quote: "As for CoZ...didnt know he was leaving...but for others? Are there more?"


Yes, lots more. I've based myself there, I'll still come here from time to time, but I feel that the spirit I found in this forum when I joined has trickled away.....

I'm not bashing TGC or anybody, I'm just speaking the truth...


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=121755&b=25
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FredP
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 19:24
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Dave,
I returned your e-mail.Thanks for the one you sent.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 19:39
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not a problem mate, glad all is good!


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Gamz
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 19:52
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Seems like I've missed alot-D13 was truely a highly respected member of the community. Pity when we seem to be moving forward, there's always something that end's up causing problems. Wether this was a mere misunderstanding, or a milicious prank, Disturbing 13 is a member of these forums who is held with the highest of regards, and it's a shame to see him leave.

I am a manifestation of your subconscious.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 20:20 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 20:32
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Ok I found that thread and I read about one and a half pages of the 5 total when I had seen enough. (half of it was removed already anyway)
I do not want to quote what was said there, even though there were very good points made.
However, I think that IanM said it best with his remarks, and after reading just a couple, I had enough.
I will quote a single comment by one person though....the person in question...Red Devil...

Quote: "(sponsored by Nvidia) I, no money needs...."

Now you know the reason he gives his stuff away.

I wanted all of those in denial about Lee's tip of the month to think about that long and hard.
Because if you keep thinking that you have exclusive rights to generic ideas that aren't even yours (did Higgins invent caves, or pickaxes? NO!), then you are going to be facing this problem for a long time.

And as Ian said, he can make whatever he wants and do what he wants with. (he's not telling you guys to not make packs is he?)
Just because Mercedes made the first car in the 1880's doesn't mean there are the only ones who can make and sell cars.
So, if I paint a picture of a pink house, then nobody else can paint their house pink?
As Ian said...grow up.

Sorry if I am sounding a bit harsh now, but you guys are blowing this out of proportion and it is a bit rediculous.
Say whatever you need to in response that you feel is neccessary, but I am leaving this thread not TGC!
I've had enough of the drama and I have better things to do that are more constructive like trying to help the noobs in the script forum.
CYA!

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 20:38
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Conjured why did you even post? You spent all of this time responding to a thread that you knew nothing about and by the content of your last post you still don't. Very well on ya mate!


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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 20:53 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 21:26
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Quote: "Conjured why did you even post?"

The same reason you did... to expresss my thoughts and feelings.
What the heck did you have to do with it either?
You are not Higgins or the red devil are you? (you not butters or D13 either)
What makes you think you are so much better than others that you have rights to post here but not me?
Are you divine? (maybe in your own mind)

Quote: "You spent all of this time responding to a thread that you knew nothing about and by the content of your last post you still don't. Very well on ya mate!"


That is typical of you RF, you saw I said I was leaving the discussion but you had to ask me a question anyway.
Where you hoping I would respond just so you could say "I thought you were leaving this thread"

Its people like you that stir up trouble when others are trying to help calm things down, that blows these thing out of proportion.

I don't need your permission to post in this thread, or any other, and frankly don't care if you like it or not.

You just want to piss & moan a little more because the whole community doesn't agree with you guys.

As Ian said...grow up.

I know enough about it to know that you are wrong and acting childish.
It's all drama anyway, because half of you guys that said you were leaving are still here posting and in other threads to.
The mods won't show you favoritism, boohoo, I would offer to help but I'm all out of tissues. Sorry
'
I came here in an effort to help by providing an alternative perspective. (an unbiased opinion)
But now that I do know what is going on (and I do understand it), I can see its just drama.
Xplosys had it pegged from the start of this thread.

Go ahead and go, if you can't respect TGC and their rules.
It is their forum and not yours, and if you don't like their rules then go start your own forum.
Maybe that is best for everybody. So, stop talking us to death and do it already.
That's right I said it, and I also expect you guys to cyber attack me like he did you.
Since most of your group has already stated in other threads that they think attacking his email is okay.
You guys are no better than anybody else; you have to squat to take a dump like the rest of us.
Get off your high horse and stop acting like everyone is going to beg you to stay just because you think you are so special that we can't live without you.

Yeah yeah, I know... now I am your enemy, because that is how you guys operate.
If someone disagrees with you then you think they are against you.
You are not the only person here with an IQ over 150 RF, so quit trying to talk down to people, because you are not better than them.

.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 21:51 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 21:53
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Quote: "What the heck did you have to do with it either?"


Are you so blind that you think this has nothing to do with any one who creates media for these forums?

Quote: "What makes you think you are so much better than others that you have rights to post here but not me?"


Do not place words in to my mouth, we are on page 3 of a thread and you just got around to reading the original post that created the problems? I reiterate my question "Why did you post at all?".

Typical of me right? So I take it I am not allowed to respond to a comment now? Interesting, sounds like a double standard to me.

Quote: "I know enough about it to know that you are wrong and acting childish."


Acting childish is it? How is it acting childish, defending our forum members? Oh wait, I know it must have been the part where RD was called out not for the first time but the second time he has pulled this crap, so if that makes me childish than sure, but I ask you this where is RD to defend himself? He has seen what he has done and has bounced back to his German forums knowing that he divided this group. but hey I am the one acting childish, right?

Quote: "
I came here in an effort to help by providing an alternative perspective. (an unbiased opinion)"


Unbiased? You mean an ignorant opinion?

The sad part about this is you think this all about people just complaining about an irrelevant issue. I am glad that this has all happened because it separates those that believe in artistic morals and those that could careless as long as they are receiving free media. I see firmly where you stand on the issue and it's sad.

As far as your half witted attempts to draw me in to a rage, it's not going to happen. sorry to disappoint you.

Cheers,
Dave


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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 21:56
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i just say, all the contributers that make packs, like higgins, butters, d13, all those people should just stop posting modelpacks here, becuase obviously if you do, you have a chance of all the work you made being wasted, and apparently theres nothing the mods can do, so why not just stop contributing to these forums

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 21:57 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 22:04
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Quote: "Are you so blind that you think this has nothing to do with any one who creates media for these forums? "

Are you so blind that you don't see that includes me?
And if you do have enough sense to see that I am included by your own statement, then why did you ask me why I posted?

Quote: "Unbiased? You mean an ignorant opinion? "

See there you go name calling, and it is offensive to be called ignorant and you know it.
No, that's not childish at all is it?

Quote: ""Why did you post at all?""

Your first statement asnswered that.
And you thnk I am the ignorant one here.
Somebody find this man a mirror, or explain to him how to get his foot out of his mouth.


Quote: "I am glad that this has all happened because it separates those that believe in artistic morals and those that could careless as long as they are receiving free media. I see firmly where you stand on the issue and it's sad."

Yeah we see where people stand allright.
You call me ignorant, after those statements? That's a joke.

The only way you would say that I know what is going on here, is if I agree with you.
As long as I disagree that makes me ignorant?

I think everyone knows who is being biased and ignorant here.

Quote: "Acting childish is it? How is it acting childish, defending our forum members? Oh wait, I know it must have been the part where RD was called out not for the first time but the second time he has pulled this crap, so if that makes me childish than sure, but I ask you this where is RD to defend himself?"

It is childish to say you are going to leave because the mods won't show you favortism.
It is childish to call him and anyone else who disagrees with you nasty names.
It is childish to think that you have rights to monopolize the expansion packs.
That guy did nothing wrong, and you guys will never admit it.
Do you even have sense enough to know that you are inviting copy-cats by letting them know it upsets you?
Probably not.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:00
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Quote: "The sad part about this is you think this all about people just complaining about an irrelevant issue. I am glad that this has all happened because it separates those that believe in artistic morals and those that could careless as long as they are receiving free media. I see firmly where you stand on the issue and it's sad.
"



100% accurate

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:04
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Quote: "See there you go name calling, and it is offensive to be called ignorant and you know it."


Uhm...calling an opinion ignorant is not the same as calling the person ignorant, learn the difference.

Quote: "You first staement asnswered that.
And you thnk I am the ignorant one here.
Somebody find this man a mirror, or explain to him how to get his foot ourt of his mouth."


Uhm...this one was funny as well, The question was directed not at why did you post in a public forum it was directed as why did you post to a public forum about a topic you had not researched? once again learn the difference.. so how does that shoe taste?

Quote: "The only way you would say that I know what is going on here, is if I agree with you.
As long as I disagree that makes me ignorant?"


Not at all; there is some level of understanding that should come in to play at some point, if not as a creator of media as someone who supports the other artists of this community who have on a regular basis provided media free of charge or for a very low cost.
That's fine that we do not agree as I will not lose sleep over it, but it does disturb me that you are pawning this off as simple complaining or tantrum throwing.

Cheers,
Dave


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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:16 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 22:18
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Quote: "Uhm...calling an opinion ignorant is not the same as calling the person ignorant, learn the difference."

Oh Mr. Technicalaty

Quote: "Uhm...this one was funny as well, The question was directed not at why did you post in a public forum it was directed as why did you post to a public forum about a topic you had not researched? once again learn the difference.. so how does that shoe taste?"

What are you talking about now?
I thought you wanted to be technical?
Here are the two questions, neither iof which ask what you explained in that quote.

Quote: "Conjured why did you even post?

I reiterate my question "Why did you post at all?""


Wow those questions didn't ask why I posted?
They asked why I posted without doing research?

Myabe you need to take that shoe out so you can ask your teacher to explain to you how to word your questions better, because neither of those questions asked what you claim was the intention.
That is typical though, mr technical when it suits you but generalize when it doesn't.

Quote: "That's fine that we do not agree as I will not lose sleep over it, but it does disturb me that you are pawning this off as simple complaining or tantrum throwing. "

Dude, I am sorry for being honest, but that is the way I see it.
Yeah call my opinion ignorant, retarded, or any other malicious thing, but we all know the truth.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:18
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Wow, I think I'll take back a comment I made earlier, because CE was one of those people 'whom I wasn't going to mention' in my complement. Unfortunately, I do see plenty of flaws in your responses, I'm not going to dignify the ironies and self-contradictions because I remember having a similar discussion with you a long time a go that was entirely uncalled for and it required me (and other people) to reword the same points several times before anything was taken notice of.

I don't whine about people, I don't nag people, nor flame them - I say that because I know what sort of response I'm probably going to get...I'd like to see the FPSC forum rise to the same respect and dignity as other forums and perhaps you'll find more non-FPSC users taking an interest in threads over here (like projects) and as far as I can see it's when you start jumping at each other's throats for the slightest little thing or making comments that are obviously going to start trouble, then there's your problem - not who's right or who's wrong, it's what you do, say and how you do and say.

Though you accuse Dave of causing trouble, please, take some of the blame yourself - I mean if members in this forum can never accept blame for their own actions, then how are they going to improve (and how are they going to improve if you're not willing to make a change?)

Let's put it this way, you revived a point from an old discussion, with a single sided point of view, followed by the statement 'grow up' then when told off for it you tell the person off for trying to cause trouble.

The argument you did raise, well yeah, maybe so - I mean I think it's something that should be dropped because that's the real world, but the points you made and the lack of sympathy show you really don't understand the opposing point of view (which is no basis to make a sweeping statement)

I'm not here to sit and criticse you or the forums, but you've just demonstrated one of the very things I've been talking about in this thread and it's that kind of practice (whether or not you feel justified (or even if your point of view is justified) ) that causes trouble and raises hotheadedness between members - look you and Dave just had a confliction there because of it. It's when people learn from those kind of mistakes (yes mistakes, we all make them and it's just as easy to learn from them) that the FPSC forums will show satisfactory improvement.


Sorry if people are annoyed or offended by what I've written or how I've written it, please it's not meant to be anti-anybody, it's just trying to appeal to people's senses.

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Corky
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:24 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 23:17
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My God! Just drop the whole topic. Lock this thread and don't start a new one. The more you add on the more people leave. If you would just EDITED drop this stupid thing maybe we could get this community back together.

Im sorry for swearing but you all need to shut your mouths, and end it!

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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:24
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Quote: "Wow those questions didn't ask why I posted?
They asked why I posted without doing research."


Uhm..I will try to simplify the questions for you. Why did you post in a thread about a specific topic before you had accomplished the research to gain an understanding of the root cause of the topic was?

Quote: "Yeah call my opinion ignorant, retarded, or any other malicious thing, but we all know the truth."


Do you know what ignorance is? Here is the definition for you so you can close Google down or close your dictionary.

Ignorance: the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

Quote: "Oh Mr. Technicalaty"


So now that you have the definition explain to me how I'm playing on words? There is a massive difference between stating someones comment is ignorant as opposed to calling someone ignorant.

I have explained everything very clear for you, it's not my problem if you can not figure it out.

What truth do you know? Please enlighten me.

Cheers,
Dave


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Corky
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:25
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Oh my god just shut up!

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:26
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Dude you need to shut up while you are ahead...

You preach about ignoring people and not letting things get to you?

You went to ozarkgames bashing my company name in at least 3 separate threads there all about a disagreement we had here.

You started a contest and changed the rules after people had enetered. FACT!
ALl i did was question it, and you are still trateing me like your enemy.

You are another one that needs to grow up.


Quote: "Let's put it this way, you revived a point from an old discussion, with a single sided point of view, followed by the statement 'grow up' then when told off for it you tell the person off for trying to cause trouble. "

Yeah I have a single sided view here but let me ask you this...
Who here doesn't?
I haven't seen any of you guys even making an attempt to see it from their point of view.
I have considered ALL SIDES, and I side with the MODS!!!
Again follow the rules or suffer the consiquences.

And I got news for you geniuses, this thread revived the other discussion, not me.

Quote: "I'm not here to sit and criticse you or the forums, but you've just demonstrated one of the very things I've been talking about in this thread and it's that kind of practice (whether or not you feel justified (or even if your point of view is justified) ) that causes trouble and raises hotheadedness between members - look you and Dave just had a confliction there because of it."

Oh and your going over to OG and trying to get the mods that are admins here to ban me over nothing is not getting hotheaded and stirring trouble and trying to turn forum members against each other.

Without calling you a hypocrit, I will use RF's method and say your comment is hypocritical.
So again, shut up while you're ahead.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:28 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 22:31
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Quote: "Quote: "Yeah call my opinion ignorant, retarded, or any other malicious thing, but we all know the truth."

Do you know what ignorance is? Here is the definition for you so you can close Google down or close your dictionary.

Ignorance: the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc."

That is what I am saying about you being a trouble maker RF.
How is trying to insult my intelligence by implying that I do not know the definition of ignorant.

Yeah I know the definition of ignorant..

Ignorant.. any person who has to use google to know what ignorant means.


Quote: "I have explained everything very clear for you, it's not my problem if you can not figure it out.

What truth do you know? Please enlighten me."

Okay you explained it to me.
You think I do not understand.
Then you ask me to enlighten you?

Here is the thruth since you ask RF.

Your opinion are biased and remind me of what a pompass ass would say.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Corky
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:28
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I bashed you on Ozark games? I never changed the rules in my comp. You were never even in my comp. I never treated you like anything.

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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:29
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funny hey corky, look at my post time mate, it was the same time as yours man.


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Corky
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:31 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 22:32
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yeah I seen. But CE just wants to carry and carry on. why dont you just drop it. If you dont like it leave, and dont say oh you just leave.... because I might just do that.

What CE will say next- well you just go do that then.

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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 22:32
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Locked.
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