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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] FPSC Model Store = Bad?

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 05:18
Calm down Fallen One, dear Lord.

We are all past the fact whether people think the store is good or not.

What the debate turned to had nothing to do with who's model is better than who's. Daniel was trying to get a free model from Bond because he found some crappy models. He compared them to professional quality models and said that they were comparable.

Quote: "TGC dont pay out till 500 usd in money is made, is this 500 usd total sales, or is this your 500 usd net profit?""

I don't know but why is it so important to you? If I was to guess it would be $500 total. Either way it's quite a bit of money.


fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 05:42 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 05:46
Its not important at all to me, but some fpsc are either naive or daft and wont even think to ask such questions, hell some people are either so dumb or are the type of people that would sit at the front of class and bring teacher an apple, they will bow before any authority at all.

I ask because those thinking of selling in the store should be asking these questions, its not for me I'm asking, but for other people, who should be asking this question themselves.

It looks to me that you wont get paid till you make 500 usd in net profit, in that case you need 1000 in sales, you are just not going to be making that and TGC will be walking of with your money. I bring this up as plenty of you will not even think to bring it up at all, you'll be too busy banging on about if someones model is better than bonds model, look who cares, lets look at the facts. This is another case of vagueness, it was the same with the dx10 license till I went on about it and it got sorted.

So this is very important, frankly what will be happening is that a lot of the young kids that use the program will be making a couple of items, and getting off on just having them in the store, or that someone bought a model, and that will be all there getting, I doubt TGC are daft, they know this and so are banking on profiting on this, frankly I don't like this kind of thing at all, its one thing pulling the wool over adults that's should know better, and another thing blatantly ripping kids off and planning to profit from their naivety.

I'm going to be watching this with keen interest, I want to know exactly what the TGC sales terms are, if anyone has them, post them, Id like to look over them.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 05:49
I'm sure TGC will send you a copy if you ask... You have to sign actual papers (snail mail) when you sign up to be a seller the store I believe so everyone should know what they signing up for (unless you sign things without reading them )... If you're under 18 your parents have to sign on your behalf so TGC isn't ripping off kids either...

I also think I read if you want to close 'your store' before you hit the $1000 sales mark you can... TGC will then send you the money you have made so far...

[center]
xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 05:56 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 05:58
Well yeah, there's that... but it's much more fun to make crazy accusations and play saviour of the forum children.

Did someone slip drugs into the forum water again?

Inspire
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 05:57 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 05:58
@fallen one:

So, would this be an accurate description?

Rick: Well, how can we maximize profit with the TGC Store?
(Minion): Maybe we can put a lot of money into advertising?
Rick: Perhaps we could get ourselves featured in a couple gaming magazines?
Lee: Maybe we can trick kids into signing up and take their hard earned money!

I think not.

You seem to be saying that TGC are these horrible people who just rip kids off, or at least that's what I saw in your post. I think that the $500 thing isn't horrible, it would be better if it was $250 or $100, but it keeps kids from withdrawing their money every five dollars so they can buy a pack of pokemon cards.



EDIT:

LOL! Didn't see your post, xplosys.
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 06:01
Quote: "Did someone slip drugs into the forum water again?"


*Checks pocket... finds hole... Walks away inconspicuously while Whistling*

[center]
Errant AI
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 08:39
Quote: "I would've felt really insulted by that comparsion"


Seriously. Actually, I'm insulted for you.

Quote: "TGC dont pay out till 500 usd in money is made, is this 500 usd total sales, or is this your 500 usd net profit?""


It's when your cut reaches USD $500. No different than with model packs. However, the % to artists is lower than with MPs.

I am reserving any opinions on GCS until I get an actual sales report from TGC. I'm not looking foreward to needing to itemize everything come invoicing time.
pdidy
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 09:14
the store is fantastic.
the models on the store are to cheap and everyone
should be gratfull and pround of the content provided,
i dont know how the likes of bond and errant and many more
can sell there models so cheap, and to buy items idividualy
from packs is even a better idea. its goood to get free
content for your games and its true not everyone can afford
to purchase everything, there are plenty of freebies arround
if you look, i think it is rather selfish to expect to get
everything for nothing, and most of the sellers in the store
have given away a lot of free goodies for a long time now.
software for creating profesional models does not come cheap
and there is always new and updated software to keep up with
or even replace to keep up to spec with future development,
fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 15:16
Instead of taking shots lets see the facts, stick the contract details up and we will talk about the facts of what the actual contract is.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
Thraxas
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 15:42
We can all discuss the facts of the contract but it will achieve nothing, except for animosity between members...

Email someone from TGC directly, as they are best equipped to answer your concerns regarding the contract

[center]
xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 17:23
Quote: "stick the contract details up and we will talk about the facts of what the actual contract is"


You've still got that "prove it to me" attitude and you're talking to the wrong people. If you have a "perceived" issue with the contract, you need to talk to TGC. As always the best thing to do if you don't like the way they do it, is to not sign up. How you can possibly make the accusations you have without seeing the contract is beyond me, but you really need to do your own research on this and stop asking us to do it for you.

Best.

fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 17:27 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 17:29
I dont have to do anything, I wont be using the store, I also dont have to ask TGC for a contract, some of you have them, so put them up, if one is going to make a thread about the store being bad, stick the details up then.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 17:40
I don't think the one who started the thread has a contract. His complaint seemed to be that; since the store opened, there have been less freebies on the forum.

You were the one who turned this into a TGC bashing thread with your accusations, and all without ever seeing a contract.

Quote: "So this is very important, frankly what will be happening is that a lot of the young kids that use the program will be making a couple of items, and getting off on just having them in the store, or that someone bought a model, and that will be all there getting, I doubt TGC are daft, they know this and so are banking on profiting on this, frankly I don't like this kind of thing at all, its one thing pulling the wool over adults that's should know better, and another thing blatantly ripping kids off and planning to profit from their naivety."


Now we should have to prove you wrong?

Anyway, I think enough has been said, certainly too much by me, so I'll leave you to your thoughts. I hope you find the information you're looking for.

Best.

fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 18:35 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 18:37
Quote: "You were the one who turned this into a TGC bashing thread with your accusations, and all without ever seeing a contract."


I asked numerous times for details on the terms, forums members were too bust arguing who's model is best, the rest was simple cripes about free models, fairly typical reactions, arguing over trivial matters, and cripes about getting things for free and shameless self centred views, I point out asking for details over the store, bearing in mind I don't and will not be selling in it, noting to do with TGC, I'm not selling as I have better ways to make money than selling art assets. So I ask sensible questions about the store for the benefit of the hard of thinking, and it gets jumped on, like I said, you always get the ones that want to give teacher an apple and sit at the front of class and get a pat on the head.

A few months down the line and we will have all the sheep bleating and moaning about the store, whatever, take your own rope to hang your selves with, its not my problem. Ill come back 6 months down the line when some of you are complaining the chains you made for yourselves are chaffing you.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
Errant AI
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 18:43 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 18:44
Quote: "Ill come back 6 months down the line when some of you are complaining the chains you made for yourselves are chaffing you."


Drama much?


Quote: "I also dont have to ask TGC for a contract, some of you have them, so put them up"


Actually. Yes, you do. Why? Because the details of the contract itself are confidential and I doubt anyone will breech contract to set your mind at ease. The gist of things has been laid out fairly clearly.
Daniel wright 2311
User Banned
Posted: 18th Jul 2008 18:49
The contract does state this and this is the reason i never did or will, even though i decided never to sell in it i still wont break it. but i am shure they will send you a coppy if you ask.

DSW
Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 18:56
...I have read the contract, and it is very clearly spelled out, indeed.

1. Is TGC Store right for you? Utilize it.

2. Is TGC Store wrong for you? Ignore it.

Like it or not, these are your two choices...


Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:25
Amazing how some people can't stand to hear different opinions from other people and call them "TGC bashers" because they don't agree with them.

If people don't like the system then they should speak up about it. TGC needs to know what the customers want, it's as simple as that. If you don't want to see the TGC bashing as you put it, then don't view this thread. It's not hurting you in any way.

Oh sure you could ignore it if you don't like it, but this isn't going to help TGC. In fact, if you're interested in helping TGC, then do talk about what you do and don't like.

xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:32 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 20:38
Quote: "If people don't like the system then they should speak up about it. "


Speak up or make stuff up? LOL Or maybe that's what you mean by opinion. I just thought it should be an informed one. If saying that TGC is cheating us and ripping off children is NOT bashing, then perhaps you could give me the new definition. If I used the work incorrectly, I am sorry.

And yes, I agree. We should absolutely have discussions about it. It's how we learn and make changes.

Best.

Airslide
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:38
I gotta agree with xplosys. I think the main issue is that a lot of the opinions being thrown around don't have much of a basis - I mean, most of the people complaining about the 50/50 split (me in part) don't even have seller accounts and probably won't for some time. If the sellers (Bond for example) weren't fine with the 50/50 split they wouldn't have signed up.

If you take the complaints aimed towards the sellers side away their isn't much left. Basically, I'm just seeing people wanting more things to be free. The prices are already so low that I'm not sure how artists are making money. The main argument in the first post of this thread was that Crispex wanted things to be free - and the world just doesn't work like that. Certainly not for this quality. So when it comes down to it, this entire thread was started on the basis that someone didn't like the store because they had to PAY for things.

Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:39 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 20:42
Quote: "If saying that TGC is cheating us and ripping off children"

That's an opinion, not a fact. If people are trying to assert this as a fact (which perhaps they are, maybe I haven't read the thread carefully enough) then yes they are bashing TGC, but in the end why does it affect you?

It's not so far-fetched to think that the minimum limit is a ploy to make TGC extra money, considering making over $1000 in sales will probably be very difficult. You might not feel concerned for the people that may end up feeling ripped-off, but I do.

Quote: "So when it comes down to it, this entire thread was started on the basis that someone didn't like the store because they had to PAY for things."

That's true, some of the argument does seem geared in that direction. In this case, I request that all people arguing against the system purely because they are cheapskates stop posting on here.

dark coder
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:43
Quote: "If saying that TGC is cheating us and ripping off children is NOT bashing, then perhaps you could give me the new definition."


Is he wrong? Having to sell 1k USD worth of models is not easy, even on turbosquid(which has a far far larger userbase). Plus many people who say it's a good idea are the buyers, and I see a lot of 'the prices are so low' etc etc, but being low isn't a good thing for the seller, it means they need to competitively price their media too, which means less money for them and potentially more time used to match/exceed the rival products' quality. All of these things make it very hard for a seller to get good amounts of money. Getting to that 1k mark is essentially ripping sellers off, I bet 95% of sellers who submit media will not attain this amount within any realistic time, many will probably just give up and leave or not submit anything more, that's victory for TGC, they have 100% of the buyer's money and basically did nothing. If enough people do this, TGC make a lot of free money and the sellers who don't reach this amount(which will be the majority) will have nothing and be cheated out, I don't see how some people can't see this.

xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:49
LOL

Herein lies the problem. People are making assumptions and statements based on ... I don't know what. If you had seen the contract or read the post through, you would know that you may close your account and collect any money due you at any time. Everyone I do business with in the internet advertising field has these types of minimums, even Google.

If people read the contract and feel like it's a rip-off, they should complain to TGC and by all means discuss it. But comments/opinions/??? are being thrown around here by people who have not seen the contract or even read the thread.

Best.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:52
What happened to this thread lol? Bond and I made it take such a nice turn. Everything calmed down a bit. Now we're back to the arguing. Can't we all just.... get along? Lol.


fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:53 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 20:55
Also if TGC are so benevolent then why cannot one have free models in the store, wouldn't that be very useful having a nice big directory all in one place, but no, cant have that, only items for sale that make TGC money and then you can only have "your" money once you have sold 1k USD of products, unlikely, meantime TGC keep your money plus even if one did sell 1k of stuff, TGC have been making interest in the bank with this for god knows how long.

Quote: "Everyone I do business with in the internet advertising field has these types of minimums,"


No they do not, Ive sold items with art assets agencies, and I did not have to sell 1k of assets.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 20:55
Quote: "Also if TGC are so benevolent then why cannot one have free models in the store"

Wow, you're arguing and you haven't even looked in the store yet? There is an entire section for free models.


Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:00
Quote: "you would know that you may close your account and collect any money due you at any time"

Before the minimum limit is attained? Anyway, as I don't trust your reading skills I would like to view this contract myself. Where can it be found?

xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:02 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:03
Quote: "Everyone I do business "


Notice the "I" in that sentence.

Quote: "Also if TGC are so benevolent then why cannot one have free models in the store"


Obvoiusly, you're just bent on an argument. No one claimed they were "benevolent" and you haven't even been in the store.

Quote: "Before the minimum limit is attained?"


Yes. This isn't fun anymore.

Best.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:04
Quote: "I also think I read if you want to close 'your store' before you hit the $1000 sales mark you can... TGC will then send you the money you have made so far...

Before the minimum limit is attained?
"

That is what the man said earlier.

I'm sure if you just email someone from TGC they'll send you a contract.


Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:07
I'd prefer if someone could show me a copy they have rather than having to bug TGC for it. Since those arguing against me haven't shown me, I don't believe what they are saying.

xplosys
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:13
I can't believe I let you drag me back into this, and you haven't even read the thread.

Quote: "Quote: "I also dont have to ask TGC for a contract, some of you have them, so put them up"

Actually. Yes, you do. Why? Because the details of the contract itself are confidential and I doubt anyone will breech contract to set your mind at ease. The gist of things has been laid out fairly clearly. "


It won't happen again.

Best.

Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:15
So you have to sign an NDA saying you won't disclose the contract (ie. the identical piece of information everyone gets sent)? Right...

Good one.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:16 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:20
Quote: "Yes. This isn't fun anymore."

I agree, so I'm going to sum everything up. We're all going to shut up and let this thread die lol. Well I'll try to sum everything up.

The store, good or bad. It's great with minor issues.

We are aware that there will be less free models about. It is an issue for some. Not just because they are cheap, but because those like me can't purchase things off the internet. But it's not an issue for the majority. There is no place on the internet that has been nice enough about models as this place has been. For years people were giving stuff away for free and they still are. Though most sell in the TGC store, some still give away for free. There is even a free section in the store itself.

The profit is only 50/50. This isn't even bad. It could be better but the TGC store gives great advertisement and marketing. They are a company and they should get profit off it as well. I won't go further into this as it isn't that unfair.

You can't get money until $500 profit is made. This is a bit excessive and I personally think it should be halved at least. But it's not all bad in the end. Like someone said, it stops the little kids from taking money out every time they get $5 and buying pokemon cards. But it is said that if you close your account you will make the money you have made even if it's under the $500 marker.

I suggest we let this thread die. The sellers have agreed to ALL of these, otherwise they wouldn't have things in the store. FPSC has been around for years and it will be around for several more years. Nearly all of the sellers, if not all of the sellers, will make the $500 profit marker. Though it may take some time, it will be done.

I'm tired of all this arguing. Benjamin if you don't like TGC's store license, then don't sell in it. It's pretty simple.


Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:18
Quote: "I'm tired of all this arguing. Benjamin if you don't like TGC's store license, then don't sell in it. It's pretty simple."

Right, maybe I'll like it more when I see it.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:21 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:23
[edit] Never mind, I don't want to keep this thread going.


Seth Black
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:22
Quote: "...Oh sure you could ignore it if you don't like it, but this isn't going to help TGC. In fact, if you're interested in helping TGC, then do talk about what you do and don't like.
"


...ranting isn't going to do anything to change what has taken place. The die has been cast.

I'm all about voicing opinion, and working towards awareness. These are pointless efforts in a case such as this...


RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:24
No Seth! Lol, this thread felt like it was coming to a close. Haha.


Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:28
Quote: "...ranting isn't going to do anything to change what has taken place."

... But it can change what happens in the future, and that's the whole point of it.

Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:31
...Benjamin, let it go.

TGC is not going to change any part of their business based on disgruntled ramblings on these boards.

End of discussion on this topic...


dark coder
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:31
Quote: "The sellers have agreed to ALL of these, otherwise they wouldn't have things in the store."


Just because the sellers agree to the contract doesn't mean they are happy with it, as TGC pretty much has the monopoly over the selling of media, sure you could use turbosquid, paypal or something similar but many users may not trust it as it's not the official method to get the media.

Quote: "...ranting isn't going to do anything to change what has taken place. The die has been cast."


Of course it can, if you just give up when you don't like something TGC won't see anyone unhappy with it and assume the current system is for everyone, what happens the next time TGC makes a decision you don't like? The die has been cast again?

fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:34 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:37
Ill give out a legal term -

acquiesce

to assent tacitly; submit or comply silently or without protest; agree; consent: to acquiesce halfheartedly in a business plan.

If you dont understand what that tem means, Ill spell it out, no, we will not agree with our silense.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:36 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:39
Quote: "...Benjamin, let it go.

TGC is not going to change any part of their business based on disgruntled ramblings on these boards."

Yes, you are right in the fact that TGC doesn't often listen to its customers (DBP help files hello, AA hello - well actually I'll be honest, it only took 4 years of ranting to get this). But there's always a chance they just might listen, if they think it'll bring in better business.

Quote: "End of discussion on this topic..."

Speak for yourself, thanks.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:36
Quote: "Just because the sellers agree to the contract doesn't mean they are happy with it, as TGC pretty much has the monopoly over the selling of media, sure you could use turbosquid, paypal or something similar but many users may not trust it as it's not the official method to get the media."

I completely agree. But if that's the case, then TGC has all the right to make the license the way it is. I think many are forgetting they are a company. If sellers have no where else to turn for selling their models, then TGC has every right to keeping the license that way. They can't baby us for ever if they want to make money.


Seth Black
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:41 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:43
@Benjamin,

I was speaking for myself. I've got no love for TGC, or a beef with you.

Simply let it go.


fallen one
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:53
A better deal would be, 50 pounds, or 100 usd in net profit, before they payout, and or, a payment every 6 months if the figure is not reached.

I mean come on, you are not really going to get 1k in sales, what are you going to do, keep shutting and opening an account to get the money on the sale of a few models, I think the deal I set out is much more practical and fair.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivitastudios.com/
Seth Black
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:57 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 21:57
Quote: "A better deal would be, 50 pounds, or 100 usd in net profit, before they payout, and or, a payment every 6 months if the figure is not reached."


...gotta agree.

I always thought that the payout trigger was set too high...


Gunn3r
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Jun 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posted: 18th Jul 2008 23:04
What happened to the golden age of FPSC forum posts? Oh well... At least I still have my pudding.


Gunn3r Games
Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Feb 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 18th Jul 2008 23:08
...pudding's always nice.

Enjoy, gunn3r...


Roger Wilco
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Jul 2005
Location: In the Shadow of Chernobyl
Posted: 19th Jul 2008 00:41
What happened to the golden age of FPSC, when we sat and waited anxiously for the release of version 1?

Ah, good times. I still remember Early Adopter fondly, even though it's vastly inferior to what FPSC is today.

And now I feel old, talking like that. Even though it only was three years ago.

Check out the Gunn3r Games web-site and its growing community, and expand the joy of indie development!
http://www.gunn3rgames.net/
Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Feb 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 19th Jul 2008 00:50
...oh the glory days.

EA was all we had, but it was all ours. At least the darn thing had ladders. (LOL)


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