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Work in Progress / Super Badass Spaceship X

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Mr Tank
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 06:07
It's a new year, and i feel inspired to finish something! Not sure whether this qualifies for that NanoGregMan thing, because it's not new - I have been developing this, on and off, for a very long time! I posted the last demo over a year ago, in this thread here..

The plan is to post something half decent in Program Announcements at the end of the month. It won't be perfect, but I just want to finish something, and a sequel is always a possibility. Anyway, here's a video!



Changes to this from the previous demo are numerous! Recently, i have discovered the joys of vertexdata, allowing me to improve my particle debris system, and replace my matrix. The latter has allowed an interesting solution to a problem that had been bugging me for ages!

By making the ground parabolic (basically curved like the top of a ball), the draw distance can be limited without popup or fogging. You get a cool "planetoid" kind of effect with a curved horizon, but the gameplay mechanics are still on a wrapping square.

Compared to a "proper" game on a ball (like asteroid worlds, which i'll return to later), it has the benefit of being easier to make levels for, with the drawback of having to move "stationary" objects all the time.

Level editor is about half done. I should be able to finish that, tidy up the presentation, and if time permits add in some more enemies, level objectives etcetera. What's there already is I think quite a fun experience, but that could be improved. Whatever - v1.0 is happening in a month and you can see for yourselves. I'll update this thread with a "dev diary" of sorts, and may stick up a WIP demo to get some feedback before the end of the month.

Happy new year.

dark coder
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 07:23
It looks very nice, I liked the obvious curvature of the planet, it looks very fun to play. The minimap also looks cool, the only main points of improvement are the graphics, mainly of the effects. Because the scene isn't too complex you could easily add some nice effects without much hit on performance, such as making those spherical expanding explosions volumetric. Also the terrain of the planet should be more varied, it looks just like a perfectly round sphere there, if it had some mountains and maybe some water then it would look much more awesome; Look at videos of spore(unless you have it) where you move the spaceship around a planet at low altitude to see what I mean.

Anyway I look forward to a demo so I can give more feedback.

TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 15:57
... BOOM!!!

Peachy, and the Chaos of the Gems

Mr Tank
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 23:26
thanks

dark coder:

explosions: i'd like better ones. Have some in my tank and other games that use multiple plains, some smoke etc. Cause a bit of a performance hit in that, but maybe because i have an old computer. I realise explosions are important and add to the overall awesome orgy of destruction feeling that makes shoot-em-up games fun, so will hopefully improve them some. BTW, the current explosions consist of one "fire" plain pointed at the camera, and a white transparent spherical "shockwave" travelling at the speed of sound. When you say "volumetric", do you mean using a shader?

terrain: adding in bumpy terrain would be cool, and quite easy. However, it throws up a number of problems that make it not so simple. The gameplay is currently 2d, as is the AI, aiming etc. Also the culling of objects (and terrain) disappearing over the horizon currently relies on the ground being "flat". I may add in some slight bumpiness for cosmetic reasons though. Considering having a wavy ocean level seeing as i have some nice wave code floating about. Maybe i will do both ground and sea like you say- swampworld or something. Good idea!

BTW i just checked out Spore. It looks pretty awesome. Previously i just thought was just about designing creatures. Perhaps i'll get it.

TheComet:

Thanks, i think.

Serial Velocity
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 17:29 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 17:29
I watched the video and i must say it looks very impressive, cant wait to try out the demo

TheComet
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 22:48
Is the landscape a sphere? Because that would be really cool!

Peachy, and the Chaos of the Gems

Mr Tank
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Posted: 5th Jan 2009 00:18
Serial Velocity: Thanks dude. I look forward to posting. Want to do a few tweaks first

TheComet: This game still takes place on a wrapping square (like Asteroids/Virus/Zarch etc), but it gives the illusion of being like a sphere. The landscape points are moved downward by an amount proportional to the square of the distance from the player, and the game objects are rotated so that they sit on the curved surface. Since it's a small curvature, wrongness isn't apparent!

Dev Update:

Fixed the pause system to properly pause and resume sounds. This is a workaround because DBP won't pause a sound that has been paused and resumed once, because it thinks it isn't playing or something.

Now converting the menus to 3d instead of using the 2d text commands.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 7th Jan 2009 06:54 Edited at: 7th Jan 2009 06:55
I got water working. Looks quite nice in motion. I plan to have limited bumpiness in the "solid ground" levels too. Not so much that it affects gameplay. I'd like to do this someday but i want to keep things simple for now.



Butter fingers
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Posted: 7th Jan 2009 16:10
Looks very cool. Like an old game call bedlam
I'm looking foward to having a play on this!

I want robotic legs.
Mr Tank
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 04:58
Thanks dude. What system was Bedlam on? I tried googling but no joy.

Green7
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 12:44
Now that looks like fun! Im part of missing those "run&gun" things, simple, screenshaking fun.
Speaking about screenshaking: that would be a easy to chieve and really cool effect if you got hit by something big, like the detonating "powerplant-like" things. or tinting the screen red if you got hit. Anyway, it looks great to me, somehow i feel like i've been waiting for this...

Mr Tank
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 05:31 Edited at: 12th Jan 2009 06:21
Thanks dude. The games you're working on / were working on look pretty sweet. The tank thing is right up my alley. I look forward to you posting something up for me to play sometime.

I had screen shake in a previous version. Might stick it back in if i have time. Remember it being not totally satisfactory, so will require some tinkering. I want everything to be destroyable, but that requires more models. Am working on that next - making more buildings and enemy units. You're right it would be awesome to have the power plant things explode in a spectacular way. Camera whiteout. I could do a craters too, and have the explosions cause water waves. Want to make the explosions more awesome too. It'll depend on how much time i have left.

Here's a vid of slightly bumpy ground and sea level action. Could have sea and land on the same level, but i don't want to hit the framerate too much. Still some optimisations to make, but time consuming. For this version leaving it at separate land and sea levels.

You can see my totally 3d menu at the start. The white text is a single model consisting of 35x24 plains meshed together. I alter the uv co-ords with vertexdata commands. Works surprisingly well. I just exclude it when the main game is running.



You can check my vids out on Veoh too now. Here

TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 17:17
..BOOM!!!

Looks great!!!

Peachy, and the Chaos of the Gems

White Fang 12
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 19:50
how soon can we expect a demo for this amazing looking game?

I'm a noob help will be accepted
Green7
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 22:14
Quote: "Thanks dude. The games you're working on / were working on look pretty sweet. The tank thing is right up my alley. I look forward to you posting something up for me to play sometime."


i got one finished, but not in 3D, it's a jump n' run called NeverDawn, you can get it on my page, additional levels are also there, but sadly none ups new ones or even downloads the existing ones.
At the moment i try to set this up in 3d, the editor is working fine, and a test level is playable, but still much to do.
the tank game is something i will reactivate after that i think.

but this is your thread, so, yeah, screen shake got some pros and cons, less is often more. A fully destructible world is a cool thing, it creates the real "boom" feeling if peaces are shattered all over the place. i like the explosion fx you've done, those visible blows, i might copy that...

how have you done the water surface? is it a shader? it is hardly visible in the vids, i can't tell from gazing at them.
water waves sound interresting...
how about spicing up the terrain with small rocks?
you could texture the blown stuff with burnt surfaces...
even it could be the right thing for physics.
but the main thing is: always stick to your plans, i' ve seen many projects dying by feauturitic sickness...


Diggsey
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 13:03
My main suggestion would be burn marks, both on the ground and on objects. Also, it looks a bit odd everything just exploding when you destroy it; why not make some things just have thick smoke effects around them as they destroy, and have a destroying animation, so that you can see it break and crumble.

When over the water, you could make ripple effects, and splash effects when explosions go off, and you could even do a vaporizing effect when you shoot those laser things. (For example, having two lines of water spray up a bit on each side of the line of fire)

[b]Yuor signutare was aresed by a deslyxic mud...
BOX2D V2 HAS HELP FILES! AND A WIKI!
Mr Tank
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 21:00
Quote: "i got one finished, but not in 3D, it's a jump n' run called NeverDawn, you can get it on my page"

Sweet. Checking it out now.

Quote: "how soon can we expect a demo for this amazing looking game?"

Thanks dude. About halfway through the month i guess, which is within a couple of days. I'll tidy it up a little and show whatever i have by then.

Quote: "how have you done the water surface? is it a shader? it is hardly visible in the vids, i can't tell from gazing at them.
water waves sound interresting..."

The waves are currently just using a static texture. I'd like to play with animated textures, or blendmapping with independently scrolling layers or something, but the current effect is satisfactory as long as you don't stop and stare at it.

Quote: "A fully destructible world is a cool thing, it creates the real "boom" feeling if peaces are shattered all over the place."

Quote: "Also, it looks a bit odd everything just exploding when you destroy it; why not make some things just have thick smoke effects around them as they destroy, and have a destroying animation, so that you can see it break and crumble."

I want to make the destruction of enemies better- eg making damaged/destroyed versions of models, or several broken pieces. Not sure time will permit them for this version.

Quote: "My main suggestion would be burn marks, both on the ground and on objects. "
Quote: "you could texture the blown stuff with burnt surfaces..."
The destroyed buildings do have a kind of "burnt" texture, it's just not too obvious. I'd like to do ground "scorch marks", but will require a little more coding now the ground is not flat. Quite doable though.

Quote: "When over the water, you could make ripple effects, and splash effects when explosions go off, and you could even do a vaporizing effect when you shoot those laser things. (For example, having two lines of water spray up a bit on each side of the line of fire)"

Wave effects i'm working on at the moment. I intend to have water splash and ground dust "particles" for when shots hit the ground. The water vapour idea is nice. Might use a load of particles. When/if i do a missile trail function, i could try out making a water vapour thing too. Cheers.

Quote: "but the main thing is: always stick to your plans, i' ve seen many projects dying by feauturitic sickness..."

True. I keep doing things, but the todo list just gets longer. I have many projects. None "dead", but on the back burner. I tend to find optimising and adding new, unimportant features more entertaining than doing the important, non tangential things. This is why i'm setting a deadline. The todo list i'll keep, and i can do a sequel (or v1.1 or whatever) when i feel like it.

Rambo Pow Pow
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 07:06
Looks really kick ass !

I'll be giving this a try once you release it !
Mr Tank
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Posted: 28th Jan 2009 05:51
Thanks Rambo.

Slight delay. I still want to make a demo for the end of the month, but may lay off sticking it to Program Announcements.

I've done quite a few bits and bobs since last update, including shadows that conform to the ground, and a new enemy.

Here's my (abridged) to do list incase anyone wants to see it:

Fix collision "bugs"
better "destruction" for things - so they don't just disappear
Improved explosions (can rip these straight from another project)
tinker with ground deformation and water physics
new level load/editor system
new levels

I will see what of the above i can do this week, and post up what i have at the weekend or something. See you then

Mr Tank
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 05:36
OK it's not as far as long as i'd hoped, but i said i was going to post what i had, so here goes!

When "play level" is highlighted, press left and right arrow to change the level number. Perversely, i recommend levels 1,4,5,6 to try. 2 and 3 are hella hard. You can try them but you will probably not last long! Next versions will have a learning curve, or at least levels in order of hardness!

You can see me tackling some levels by selecting the "replay" option. Note that if you save your own replay after doing a level, it currently replaces replay A.

Instructions are in a readme, and viewable in the game itself. I have included code and media incase you want to se how it works. Be warned - quite messy!

Please tell me what framerate you get, and obviously if it works or not as well! Tell me what you think!

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prasoc
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 08:42 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2009 08:51
downloading now.. looks awesome!

EDIT: you can shoot forever, is that meant to happen? and also when you press shift, it brings up a kind of "debug" menu
Mr Tank
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 14:42
How do you mean - shoot forever? You have unlimited ammo, but limited range. When the gun temp reaches the maximum, your rate of fire is decreased, but it doesn't actually stop.

I should take the debug menu out for the final version. It shows how long various parts of the code take. On the left is the processes carried out every game mechanics step, and on the right, before every sync call. There's another diagnostic function you can see by holding enter, showing object numbers currently used.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 20:01 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2009 23:07
*sigh*..runtime error, 'object doesn't exist at line 550'

I really want to try this game out too, it just looks so old school in it's arcade methods, makes me jump up and down like a little kid!

edit:
got it to work!
so i load up level one...get my arse handed to me within 20secs...bleh

Once I got use to the controls, it was a lot of fun. I was able to beat levels 1, 5 and 6.

Controls feel really sensitive (any way of implementing gamepad controls?)..and it was hard to get powerups :S, maybe scale there collision up a bit so it's easier.

Great stuff, keep it up.
Mr Tank
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 01:11
The first error you got is the first loading of anything external to the exe. I guess you tried to run the exe from inside the .rar file.

Glad you were able to do some levels. Those missile ships on level 1 are a pain in the bum if you don't have the knack of avoiding missiles.

Gamepad controls are in it, but i forgot to list them in instructions. I think gamepads vary. On mine, the left analog stick or d-pad depending on which is selected (by a button on the controller) thrusts the ship, two of the fire buttons are used for gun and missile, and the shoulder buttons rotate the ship. I find playing it with the controller really hard. This must be what the game feels like to play for the first time. Perhaps i should try and make it easy with controller.

I agree that picking up powerups can be really finnicky. I should tinker with the control parameters, or just make the powerups a bit larger like you say. Thanks for playing.

BTW i guess it ran OK. Did you get a decent framerate? It should be displayed at the bottom left of the screen.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 01:30 Edited at: 4th Feb 2009 01:37
I get 40fps, I have a crappy comp as well, so probably not the best.

Anyway, I prefer the gampad controls. One thing I think you should change is have the Right Joystick control rotation of the ship. Left Control Joystick does move forward/backward, strafe left/right..and fire main gun with R1 button, and fire missile with R2 button. This setup tends to be the norm for action/fps games on consoles, and is probably the easiest to use.

PS. THANK YOU for supporting widescreen monitors!

This is the exact code I use for my editor with the control scheme I mentioned:


Just take out the zoom code, then add the fire weapons for the R1/2 buttons

EDIT(3rd time ):
Reason for the double checks on the joysticks is to make sure you can move them slightly without effect..sometimes mine don't sit at 0 value. Also I added variances in how fast the cursor moves by the value of the joystick. You could easily calculate a value using the whole range if you want:
move=joystick x()*0.05
something like that
Mr Tank
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 03:04
Quote: "I get 40fps, I have a crappy comp as well, so probably not the best."

That's about what i get. Cheers.

Quote: "Anyway, I prefer the gampad controls. One thing I think you should change is have the Right Joystick control rotation of the ship. Left Control Joystick does move forward/backward, strafe left/right..and fire main gun with R1 button, and fire missile with R2 button. This setup tends to be the norm for action/fps games on consoles, and is probably the easiest to use."

This was my original intention, having played games on console. However, my PC gamepad only has sticks on the left. Is a double analog controller the norm now? I guess i could put a configure controls option.

I use a threshold for the controller to have an effect, like in your code, because the zero isn't truly zero etc. I also found that my controller had some wierd properties that i could fix with code, but not sure how universal these are. Basically controllers are a bit of an unknown quantity, which is kind of annoying. I want to keep things digital though, (even when using analog sticks), because i want the keyboard and pad players to be equal.

Anyway i'll work on some more pad options for the next version.

Quote: "PS. THANK YOU for supporting widescreen monitors!"

Thanks. I did this because wrong aspect ratios and stretching really wind me up. Glad you noticed.

Dragon Knight
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 21:14
waw just looked at the video, looks pretty bad-ass!

I'd actually consider buying a joystick for this ^-^

As many have probably said before i like the spherical world, gives it a new perspective for people like me.

Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 21:51
i finally tried this and wish i hadn't waited. very good stuff!

FPS ranged from ~46-156 depending on how much was going on (only dipped under, say, 90 on rare occasion and sub-60 a couple times).

controls were pretty comfortable on my rumblepad. ie, a short learning curve. add ability to re-map and we (pad users with various preferences) will be happy

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Rambo Pow Pow
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 06:45
good stuff ! Nice graphics and lots of action !

I'll give you some criticism to give you something to chew on for the next version !

I've had a problem playing with my xbox 360 controller so i had to play with a keyboard instead.

reason is that if i can't remap, there's no way i can use both analogs and press A to shoot, if i could, i would've remapped it to bottom trigger.

I also want to encourage you to leave the keyboard users in the dust and support analog movement ! A year ago, i had digital control in my game and whenever someone would suggest me analog control, i brushed the suggestion away because i wanted to maintain keyboard equality. I had grown attached to playing my game on the keyboard. When i finally included support for analog movement/shooting, all of a sudden, it made the experience 10 times more enjoyable for those who had an analog controller !

The pacing seemed a bit off. I liked level 2 because there was a lot of action. The problem is that after a certain time, the action dies down and i can slowly go around just looking for power ups and picking my fights. I think it would be more intense if the enemies were more actively looking for you rather then the other way around.

Fighting enemies using rockets is also a lot easier then when using the gun. It's hard to dodge enemy bullets. both of those things make powerup hunting a very important part of gameplay. Since power up hunting can generally be done safely (without too much pressure), it adds to the downtime.

Like someone else suggested, bigger powerup collision size would also be helpful !

Good job !
Mr Tank
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Posted: 8th Feb 2009 19:58
Quote: "waw just looked at the video, looks pretty bad-ass!
"

Thanks.


Quote: "I've had a problem playing with my xbox 360 controller so i had to play with a keyboard instead.

reason is that if i can't remap, there's no way i can use both analogs and press A to shoot, if i could, i would've remapped it to bottom trigger.

I also want to encourage you to leave the keyboard users in the dust and support analog movement ! A year ago, i had digital control in my game and whenever someone would suggest me analog control, i brushed the suggestion away because i wanted to maintain keyboard equality. I had grown attached to playing my game on the keyboard. When i finally included support for analog movement/shooting, all of a sudden, it made the experience 10 times more enjoyable for those who had an analog controller !"

It looks like x360 / dualshock controllers are pretty standard now, which is cool. I should probably buy one. I'll be definitely adding in some alternate controller schemes, and perhaps a "remapping" menu, but i think the game works quite nicely on keyboard, so i's like to retain the "keyboard equality". I think i can make the controls better whilst keeping it digital - i used a cunning scheme where the amount of rotation is nonlinear with the duration of keypres,, allowing for fast rotation over large angles, and precise small changes. Perhaps a similar trick can be used for thrusting. Also digital input means my replay files are really tiny.

Quote: "The pacing seemed a bit off. I liked level 2 because there was a lot of action. The problem is that after a certain time, the action dies down and i can slowly go around just looking for power ups and picking my fights. I think it would be more intense if the enemies were more actively looking for you rather then the other way around."

You're definitely right about this. One of the coolest things about your game Carnage is that the action doesn't let up - it gets more and more intense. In my game it does suck that the action kind of peters out, and i agree the powerup thing is annoying- you're OK unless you completely run out of powerups, and if there are none, or nearly none, you can spend ages hunting! Also it sucks having to find the last enemies, when they are sometimes out of radar range. I should definitely try and sort this out. Maybe spawning enemies, or enemies coming in waves, maybe well known rearm bases, maybe just simple level objectives (destory particular enemies, or survive for a time etc), and have destroying everything an option, not a necessity. Having the enemies hunt you is a good idea - patrol routes, or just enemies that come after you all the time, rather than only when within a certain range. Maybe enemies dropping powerups that you automatically collect. Perhaps off-map pointers to level objectives. I think also levels within levels, like enemy bases, will mean that the action can come in "lumps", rather than starting big and ending up small. Perhaps liberating friendly units before tackling big bases or something. Lots to think about..

I shall try to have some kind of solution to at least partly fix these problems next time. Along with the extra controller options. Thanks for the feedback, and thanks for playing.

Quote: "i finally tried this and wish i hadn't waited. very good stuff!

FPS ranged from ~46-156 depending on how much was going on (only dipped under, say, 90 on rare occasion and sub-60 a couple times)."

Thanks dude. Pretty high framerate, which is encouraging. I'm definitely working of gamepad controls- it seems most people have them now!

Kohaku
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 11:37
That game looks really fun!

Keep it up.



JLMoondog
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 19:34
I was replaying some levels and when being rushed by massive spheres I was thinking, "..wish I had a land mine..." Even if you only get 2 or 3, could make some levels more possible

Just an idea.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 04:50
You mean like a proximity mine you can drop? I pondered this. Maybe i'll stick it in. However, having a large number of weapons might overcomplicate things. Perhaps i can use another key/ controller shoulder button to cycle weapons. It'd also be cool to be able to drop drones, maybe use glide bombs, unguided rockets etc...

So, having checked Amazon, it looks like pretty much all PC gamepads are of the PS2 kind with the dual analog thumbsticks. So i'm ordering one and going to make nice controls for that.

I think i'll just do that, make a couple more enemy units and some nice levels and post a v1.0. Hopefully by the end of this month. The other stuff can go in a subsequent version.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 09:21
Mr Tank
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 23:57
Cheers. So i'm waiting for them to deliver my "Saitek P380 Gamepad". Exciting stuff.

I fixed my collision bug! After spending an age making a diagnostic system which didn't work, it was the stupidest little thing. I had a 3 where there should have been a 0. I still don't know why my diagnostic thing didn't work, but it doesn't matter. Yay!

Now working on the level editor. Have increased powerup size, but not really a satisfactory solution. I'm pondering a nearby powerup "autohoover", or doing away with floaty spinning healthpacks altogether. Rearm base? Bonus health for enemy destruction? Something to keep you in the action.

I really liked "Bioshock". It's almost a great game, but so much time is spent backtracking to find something to eat, and searching corpses for bars of chocolate or whatever. I don't want to fall into that trap.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 00:02
Portable repair/rearm station? Call down a ship to fix yah and reload yah, but at a cost. You gain currency by killing baddies, when yah have enough, call down the big guy.

Just an idea.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 00:09
Hmm possibly.

I don't want to overcomplicate things and take away from the action. However, one of my fave old games is Zeewolf on the Amiga, and i seem to remember you did actually could purchase weapons in that. So i think it could work. I shall probably try a simpler solution in the meantime though, but it's a nice idea. Cheers.

dark coder
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 01:25
It's very cool! I found mission 3 very hard until I decided to only use missiles against ships then it was almost too easy! Perhaps if both sides had some missile countermeasure like flares and if you made the main cannons shred enemies apart easier it'd encourage more aggressive tactics. Also the maps seemed quite small, but I imagine you can make them bigger as I initially thought it was some giant map with almost endless enemies until I saw the whole thing was tiling around.

I also think you should have more weapons, maybe not all equipped at the same time but before the mission you get to pick your primary and secondary weapons. Also the larger ships should maybe drop shield powerups as they are a little hard to take down with only guns as you often lose quite a lot of health, especially when others fly near them.

It's really quite a nice engine and with more varieties in enemy types it could have a lot of fun levels. And by varieties I mean more than just moving objects that fire nothing, guns and/or missiles, but maybe ones that fire missiles into the sky that impact the ground around you like artillery, or ones that repair the ground turrets etc. Lastly, to make it more arcade like maybe you could have shield strength and hull strength, where the shield has little health but regenerates after a few seconds that way if you have very low health you're not totally screwed when attacking enemies.

Rambo Pow Pow
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 03:03
auto hover is a great solution !

in geometry wars evolved 2, you have to collect geoms which are incredibly small. But it`s very easy because once you get near them, they become attracted to you relatively to the distance between it and you. It`s like having a huge collision size, without the akwardness !
JLMoondog
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Posted: 12th Feb 2009 16:19
Mr.Tank:
Just don't model it after Top Gun's refueling for the NES...awkward.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 04:16
Dark Coder -

Quote: "It's very cool! I found mission 3 very hard until I decided to only use missiles against ships then it was almost too easy! Perhaps if both sides had some missile countermeasure like flares and if you made the main cannons shred enemies apart easier it'd encourage more aggressive tactics.
"

Thanks dude. I agree missiles make the game way too easy. I think there are too many available, and the range is maybe a bit too much. I should at least power up the gun like you say. The game is a bit broken at the moment. You can like you say just hunt for missiles, stay far enough away from the enemy ships for them not to come after you, and fire missiles. They should at least come after you if you do that!

Other broken tactics include weaving predictably left and right in front of the guns, and just flying straight ahead! I should work on the enemy targeting algorithms!

For a "coutermeasure" i intend to make you able to shoot down enemy missiles. Perhaps there could be laser anti-missile defences, that wear down (and regenerate) like a shield..

Quote: "Also the maps seemed quite small, but I imagine you can make them bigger as I initially thought it was some giant map with almost endless enemies until I saw the whole thing was tiling around."

i'd like to make the map bigger, but it wouldn't not that trivial to do. It would also mean slower collision system, a larger image for the minimap etc. It maybe no problem, and i have some ideas to get around these problems, but like i say it's not simple.

Quote: "
I also think you should have more weapons, maybe not all equipped at the same time but before the mission you get to pick your primary and secondary weapons. Also the larger ships should maybe drop shield powerups as they are a little hard to take down with only guns as you often lose quite a lot of health, especially when others fly near them."

The choosing weapon load thing could be pretty sweet. I might well do this. I don't want to overcomplicate things, but a small selection of weapons, or ships could be quite cool.

Quote: "
It's really quite a nice engine and with more varieties in enemy types it could have a lot of fun levels. And by varieties I mean more than just moving objects that fire nothing, guns and/or missiles, but maybe ones that fire missiles into the sky that impact the ground around you like artillery, or ones that repair the ground turrets etc. "

Thanks. I want to make artillery type enemies. It requires more complicated targeting algorithms and 3d collisions, but i think i can do it. I want to have spotter planes linked to artillery, vertical launch batteries in submarines, ground silos etc.

The idea of "medic" enemies is pretty sweet. Or maybe mothership enemies. It would be another reason for the player to go on the offensive, rather than dawdling hunting for powerups or waiting for shields to recharge.

Quote: "Lastly, to make it more arcade like maybe you could have shield strength and hull strength, where the shield has little health but regenerates after a few seconds that way if you have very low health you're not totally screwed when attacking enemies."

I'll think about this. As the game is, this would mean the player could hit and run, spending a lot of time waiting for shields to recharge. However, with the right mechanics, this idea could work! Thanks for the thoughts.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 04:27
Quote: "auto hover is a great solution !

in geometry wars evolved 2, you have to collect geoms which are incredibly small. But it`s very easy because once you get near them, they become attracted to you relatively to the distance between it and you. It`s like having a huge collision size, without the akwardness ! "


OK so i put in auto hoover. It works to an extent. The problem is, if you are "full" and cannot "absorb" the powerup, you can go around collecting them all, and have a bunch of powerups following you around! This looks totally lame, and means you can sort of tow your arsenal around if you go slow enough.

Perhaps i'll work this mechanic into the game somehow. Or maybe have powerups "anchored" to start points, or limit you to towing one at a time or something. Maybe i'll just not cap your missile, or shield energy. Too hard. Mind hurts.

Quote: "Just don't model it after Top Gun's refueling for the NES...awkward."

Never played it. Most awkward refuleling was Eagle One : Harrier Attack on the PS1. I feel irate just thinking about it. Decent game though.

Rambo Pow Pow
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 18:54
haha it`s always funny when a new feature turns into an unforeseen bug !

you could have the auto hover conditional to the badass space ship's shield/missile, so that if the shield is full, shield power ups don`t auto hover and are not pickable.
Mr Tank
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 03:47
Quote: "haha it`s always funny when a new feature turns into an unforeseen bug !"

I just wish that would work the other way around more often.

Quote: "you could have the auto hover conditional to the badass space ship's shield/missile, so that if the shield is full, shield power ups don`t auto hover and are not pickable."

Cheers. This is what i've ended up doing. Works well enough.

My controller arrived today. Have got controls working with it. Feels better than system with old controller. Hopefully all dual analog type controllers have the same button mapping to the controller variables. The right joystick left/right is something wierd like "joystick twist z" , with output from 0-65535 instead of -1000 to +1000 like all the others. Anyway it works.

I'm probably going to put in "proper analog", because using analog like digital sucks. With keyboard you can quickly tap a key to get an analog effect anyway. I found myself instinctively holding the analog stick a little bit off centre in order to corner slowly etc. I'll probably forgo "keyboard equality" now, although i'll try and ensure the pad player has no significant advantage.

Am generalising the ground gun code at the moment- scope for many types of guns/launchers without long code.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 26th Feb 2009 05:28 Edited at: 26th Feb 2009 05:34
OK this is a bump or sorts. Don't want this to get locked before i can post something significant, so you can read me waffle about what's going on at the moment.

Have implemented analog control. Still want to tinker but seems to work well. Feels intuitive and nice. Replay files are only 4 times larger now, which isn't much - 2 dwords per frame!

Now trying to figure out blendmapping. Want to be able to dial up and down the brightness of my light ghosted special effect objects, which i need for my thrusters to be analog. There are a few modes that look to do the right kind of thing after running a preliminary test. Basically the idea is so i can scale the brightness of a ghosted object so that it appears to be a given number of the same ghosted objects occupying the same place- so if part of it is blue, i can scale it from black (equivalent to 0 objects), through blue (1), up to white (infinity).

This came about because i can't alter alpha mapping levels for limbs, but seems to be a cooler solution anyway. Will also allow me to lose the large number of shield textures i have currently. Quite a lot of work for small benefit, but i think learning blendmapping will come in very useful. If i can get a similar system for dark ghosted objects i can do some cool stuff with my shadows.

After that, the plan is to make some models for enemy turrets and finish the level editor enough to output a number of levels - say a dozen. Then post up something semi-finished with a view to making an improved version later. I'm pondering entering the competition coming up, so i'd like to leave this with a decent v1.0 with no known bugs, a nice set of levels in order of difficulty with a good learning curve, adjusted weapon potency and powerup availability. Not fundamentally much different to the last demo, just more polished and balanced.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 27th Feb 2009 00:30
Sounds great, and the blendmapping sounds interesting. Good luck, can't wait to try it out with my controller.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 27th Feb 2009 04:43
Thanks mate. The blend mapping effect thing is in now. Looks quite pretty, although to most people it'll be a subconcious thing - not immediately noticable, just adding to the overall feeling of niceness.

I'm now working my way through a single A4 sheet of paper with a list of minor bugs, fixes, cosmetic touchups, balancing things etc.

Just that and the level editor/levels to do before i call it 1.0.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 27th Mar 2009 23:19
OK. Not much of an update, but it's been a month, and I don't want this thread locked. I've taken a break from doing this, and now want to get back to it and finish. I've collected together all my reference images, now i just need to make a few models, finish the level editor/loader (this isn't really a big deal, just a bit of a chore that i've been putting off for ages) , and make a few levels.

Spot the difference time. What's new here?

The radar is prefectly round- where before i was using a 16 sided "cricle", now i am using a square with blendmapping. Nice.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 28th Mar 2009 02:19
I'm glad your continuing this. This is one of the few projects on this board that I want to be finished. Good luck.

Dr Tank
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2009 04:08
Thanks dude. I really want to see it finished too.

If anyone's wondering about my name change - some cretin got me to log out of my old account as an April fool. Ha ha ha. Not.

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