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Dark GDK / DGDK Open Source Project

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TechLord
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 21:16 Edited at: 22nd May 2010 23:50
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Quote: "1st we totaly need Co - Op world building.

wow hero engine is so good its unbelivable.

about grass particles.. no need actually , well maybe if it will be faster then the normal LOD solution.

if you are near a grass model , it shows the full model.
the more you get away from it Tessalation joins in and make it less and less Polygons.
and if you are really far from it , then you have only one Plain with the Model as a texture. "

I've been drawing inspirations for S3GE/S3GEd from Hero and UDK. S3GE HTTP File Transfer capability will be the platform to develop advanced Co-op file sharing, Version Control, realtime messaging protocols and other networking features.

I've been secretly designing a Particle Engine in my spare time (when I get frustrated on MAUI), Illudium. Illudium is based on the Particle API. It is designed in such a way that particle computation are independent of rendering, thus, I'm developing Illudium to support both 2D/3D sprites, Shaders, utilize multiple LOD techniques, Scripted Behaviors/Transitions, Advanced Physics. Illudium will support Fluid, Pyrotechnics, Hair, Flora, Lensflares, Decals, Flocks/Swarms, whatever effect desired.

Why use a separate system for Grass, when the particle system can do it for you? Imagine if the grass sparkled or emitted blue flames. A Particle system will powered weather effects such as snow/rain, the same effect could be used for meteor shower. Consolidation of features is the key to developing S3GE as a multi-genre game engine and this has been my design goal from the very start.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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haliop
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 07:45
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i dont understand.
Grass Particle? so it will hold the grass model? therefor faster?

i thought particles are particles.. but i guess you can look at it in a way that the actuall particles are objects aswell , if thats the case and if its faster then placing the models.. ok..

i got confused.
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haliop
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Posted: 25th May 2010 13:53 Edited at: 25th May 2010 13:55
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was playing a bit with blender , and i thought about a defening your team base or Head Quarters , so a thought of a Defence Tower came to mind , but since we are not competing with Realisem, i built a tower with a diffret approach, you have the actuall tower which is just some long bars , but at the end of the tower , you dont just stand up and shoot with your long range accurate weapon (sniper..) , you actually sit in a comfy chair using electronics you oparate cannons or machine guns brought to the tower by the Commander since its a FPS / RTS game. so the tower itself is not customaizable cause theres no need , but the weapon you control with the tower is.
here are some pictures of what i've built:





on the last picture , imagine there is a gate between the two towers, so each player defends the gate one on the left one on the right, giving you maximum defence power.

and since the actuall weapon is customizable ,ingame results will probably be awesome , one shots rockets the other shoots laser.. etc
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TechLord
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Posted: 25th May 2010 22:58 Edited at: 25th May 2010 23:01
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Haliop, that's looking good. Can the tower rotate?

MAUI Textbox Gizmo is coming along, only a few more methods needed to achieve a fully functional text input. Just working out their operation with pseudo-code:


I've managed to produce something strange in MAUI here.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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haliop
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Posted: 25th May 2010 23:21
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i didnt understand the strange..
TextBox commands looks easy thats good.


the tower itself cannot rotate , i thought about it as some view angle and not 360, however , i have a mass amount of ideas for the Weapons that can be attached to the tower , and these can rotate however we want them, also notice that i didnot go full way Armor wise on the tower , making the player very vournable he will use extremly powerfull weapons but the opposite player will be able to shut it down quickly , making the use of the tower very hard to "keep" but very rewarding if you master it , giving the player somekind of a HardCore gameply, you better know what youre doing if your on that weapon tower.

about player rotation and view while sitting on the tower , i came with an approach that the player will be static , and will use electroins such as a stick to control the weapon and somekind of helmet to rotate its view , so actually you look inside a helmet which take you to the view of the weapon electronic aims such as a Heat sight or night vision , changing the entire hud giving some new elemts to what you see.
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binsky
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Posted: 26th May 2010 02:46
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I really like the documentation you use for this... is the documentation HTML or do you have some sort of generator?
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TechLord
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Posted: 27th May 2010 00:12 Edited at: 27th May 2010 00:15
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Quote: "didnt understand the strange..
TextBox commands looks easy thats good."
Yeah. There are few blurry images in that video that did not turn out as desired However, the video does display the current state of S3GE.

Haliop, your modeling skills are very impressive and are a inspiration. Not only can the weapons be customized but so can the Tower themselves. Everyone knows how I've been hyping up the concept of Modular Entity Construction Sets (3D Parts that are assembled to create many Game Entity variations).



MECS can be applied to any game Entity, and I've mentally broken down the Tower into parts. I can visualize a bazillion types of towers, upgrades, weapons etc. The possibilities are endless. However, its been a tough sell to Artist to assist me in the Research and Development of MECS by modeling parts to assemble into entities.

Quote: "I really like the documentation you use for this... is the documentation HTML or do you have some sort of generator?"
I'm not sure what documentation you're referring to, can you provide the link. thanks.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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haliop
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Posted: 27th May 2010 00:38
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about the tower customization , look Tech , we could do everything costumaizable (is that the write word?) ,but we need to think about releasing the first demo sometime this year , if we do everything cosutmaizable it will take alot and alot of time do accomplish that not talking about combining them all together in game ..

i think we should decide at first what can be costumaizable and what can't , it will speed up the process by far.

also we should remmber that this is FPS with RTS elements if we give to much costumaziable options it will ruin the game as FPS if we put less it will ruin the RTS , however if were talking about a tower we can put Hieght Bricks / Better Defences etc.. but just the normal known stuff for static like a tower , vehicles and Mechs should have many and many and many and many and many costum abilites but not the buildings which are mostly static ..

we just need to decide i think we should make a MSN meeting and decide , i will also suggest making it as a Community Project making it "DarkGDK forum BrainStorming for upcoming Demo S3GE" making everyone giving us some ideas maybe correcting us where we think we are right , you know .. just a mass comunity BrainStorming.
however for this we will need to put on a Graphic Document what we have so far and the Project Idea itself , this way if a new guy comes to one of our future Meetings he wont start asking what is this all about he will read the Doc first.

do you guys agree? about MSN meeting ?
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Matty H
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Posted: 27th May 2010 00:51
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I'll meet on MSN, to be honest though, I'm kinda going off the game demo idea a little. I think we should think of a demo project that just uses what we have so far, it may not be great but at least it will be all S3GE and it will happen soon, it may not even be a game, just a showcase of some sort.

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haliop
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Posted: 27th May 2010 14:25
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yeah true we still dont have all the system to make a good game, its just that i have some ideas i dont want to forget so i'm just making them, i also have some for vehicels and weapons.

btw , we can still work on the "game demo" and insert new plug-ins as we go , so actually we can have
the game up and running just without shadows / aem and other stuff, but we can make something playable just not releasing it as a demo until we have all plug-ins.

btw, ive found a way to create brushes for Terrains editing , just use small picture of black-white and stamp them the same way im using AEM to draw on 3D objects , but instead of painting a Texture i'll paint on the actuall Height-Map while decresing and increasing white/black value from it or to it, and its pretty simple stuff, so you can have large hills or pherhaps a Well where you just put a Well Brick Model on top of the stamped Hole.

about AEM i just lost my motivation about it im waiting for it to come back.. it just stands no progress whatsoever , altough i know how to paint on 3D objects/ Alpha / exctract colors which are simple but i have a long road ahead of me to get it to be what i want it to be.
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haliop
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Posted: 27th May 2010 18:07
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dude SquareEnix totaly stole our idea and im really upset.. not! square enix are awesome and i would totalyyyy love to play it.!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isAZLwNB38Y&feature=related

now thats pretty damn impressing.
for you who dosent know Square , the creators of Final Fantasy
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TechLord
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Posted: 27th May 2010 22:35 Edited at: 27th May 2010 22:38
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Quote: "about the tower customization , look Tech , we could do everything costumaizable (is that the write word?) ,but we need to think about releasing the first demo sometime this year , if we do everything cosutmaizable it will take alot and alot of time do accomplish that not talking about combining them all together in game .."
Haliop, my point was I didn't think of Towers for MECS and I'm sure there are a other types of Game Entities that I didn't consider before that could take advantage of such a system. MECS will be used to develop the customizable entity system for weapons, vehicles, etc. Ideas like the Towers will help me formulate a more versatile strategy for implementation. I was also throwing a subliminal message for help with its R & D. I will need parts and a awesome artist like yourself to model them.

There is an assumption that MECS will take alot of time, however, DGDK already has support in place for such a system within its Limb Object management. MECS is just a higher layer of management. Putting it in place now will save time in developing games later. One might ask how?

Well, not only can MECS be used for customization, the same system can also be used to create pre-fabricated entity variants just by mixing and matching 2-3 sets of parts. Lets say we need 3 types of vehicles. Normally an artist would model parts for these vehicles and pre-fabricate them in the modeller. MECS would allow an artist to load the parts into S3GE directly, and automatically assemble them into pre-fabs, creating 100s of variants instantly!

As I stated before, MECS has been a hard sell to Artist. I believe its because the common school of thought for modeling is to develop complete entities, not parts for them.

Quote: "dude SquareEnix totaly stole our idea and im really upset.. not! square enix are awesome and i would totalyyyy love to play it.!!!!"
Looks like Armored Core meets RPG. Not our game idea.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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TechLord
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Posted: 27th May 2010 22:40
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Quote: "do you guys agree? about MSN meeting ? "
Lets set a time in GMT, shall we?

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haliop
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Posted: 28th May 2010 00:25
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sure but just tell me what does GMT stands for , i have no clue, i guess its a Time line for Somewhere on earth but have not idea.
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TechLord
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Posted: 28th May 2010 03:19
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GMT = greenwich meanttime. Google is our friend - lol.

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haliop
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Posted: 28th May 2010 09:53
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hehe right google , forgot all about it since the last reports of it being sawed by 1000 countries.

ok , i guess you both live in the US , so give me an Hour and i'll check i live in israel so its about 10 hourse + / - depends of where you guys are..
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TechLord
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Posted: 28th May 2010 10:39 Edited at: 28th May 2010 13:04
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Team, the DOSP Restructure has commenced. The decision to restructure the project was made after several contributors experienced failure to compile and run the current S3GE project. The decision to execute restructure now, was to prepare for new subsystems and libraries additions that are required to move the development of the Project-Trio forward.

After consulting with Matty today, I've proceeded with the DOSP Restructure to 1) Reorganize the project in a more intuitive fashion; 2) Stablize Open Source distribution via SVN for all contributors; 3) Minimize Version conflicts. For self-containment, the restructure will result in separate copies of DGDK and other 3rd Party Libraries from the standard DGDK default directories.

I'm pleased to say that I've restructured the project directory in less a few hours and conducting some tests. The new structure is based on recommendations by Matty and myself.



Before the SVN is updated with the new structure, I'm requesting assistance to thoroughly test it and make needed changes. A Test Structure will be distributed as a compressed file (.rar format) which will match the one on my system 100%. This structure currently compiles/runs as seen in this video. Participants should only need to extract, locate and load S3GE.sln into VC++ IDE. The S3GE project should compile/run error free without modification. Once testing is complete, a new SVN checkout will be made available.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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haliop
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Posted: 28th May 2010 15:15
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awesome i love to hear great news!
waiting for that Rar file.
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TechLord
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Posted: 28th May 2010 23:58 Edited at: 29th May 2010 00:38
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Everyone, the new Test Structure (DOSP.rar 82M) is available for immediate download. Participants should only need to extract, locate and load S3GE.sln into VC++ IDE. The S3GE project should compile/run error free without modification. Let me know if you have any trouble. For details on the structure read


Meanwhile, as I await feedback I'm going to study the Blender Tutorials.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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Matty H
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Posted: 29th May 2010 00:46
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I needed to change everything that had "Content/etc.." to "Debug/Content/etc...". I'm liking all the new error checking, makes things alot easier, unfortunately I have this one for you Tech:



Could not run because of this.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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TechLord
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Posted: 29th May 2010 02:24 Edited at: 29th May 2010 07:20
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I still have a lot of error checking to add.

You still have to fiddle with the Debug directory pointers? What directory is the S3GE.exe written too? There must be a difference in our VC++ IDE configurations.

Haliop mentioned that LUA Script <eof> error earlier and I have no idea why that's happening, it does not occur on my machine. The difference could be that I installed LUA on my machine with LUA for Windows 5.1.4. I may have to uninstall lua to duplicate.

[EDIT]
I uninstalled LUA and recompiled/run S3GE. Still not getting that error. There isn't much to that script. I'm researching...

I was able to closely duplicate the LUA <eof> by changing the script
from


to



but my error reads

[string "splashscript"]:2:'<eof>' expected near 'end'

not

[string "splashscript"]:2:'<eof>' expected near '<<'


I've deleted the DOSP directory and downloaded the .rar, extracted, loaded S3GE.sln, and built S3GE. I still cannot duplicate that <eof> error

I've performed additional file clean up on the file structure and uploaded a new test structure *.rar (much smaller = 68M). I've also uploaded my version of the S3GE.exe. I would be interested in if you can run my version of the S3GE.exe without the lua <eof> failure.
[/EDIT]

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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haliop
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Posted: 29th May 2010 10:05
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maybe the <eof> bug dosent consirn the Script but the Script handling inside S3GE?
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TechLord
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Posted: 29th May 2010 10:36 Edited at: 29th May 2010 10:45
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Quote: "maybe the <eof> bug dosent consirn the Script but the Script handling inside S3GE?"
Its difficult to determine when I cannot duplicate the problem on my machine. It compiles and runs correctly on my machine. This would suggest that everyone else has the problem.

I've uninstalled LUA and the DOSP.rar is completely self contained with no difference in library versions. However, differences can exist in our OS, VC++ IDE, other software outside of DOSP.

I've uploaded my version of S3GE.exe for testing. I've tested the S3GE.exe on a completely different PC and it runs fine. If my version of S3GE.exe runs fine on your machine (placed in Debug Folder with Content & Dlls
), this error is pointing to something different between our OS, VC++ IDE, or other software outside of DOSP.

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haliop
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Posted: 29th May 2010 13:40
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yeah the Exe works fine.
so what can we do to correct this?
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haliop
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Posted: 29th May 2010 13:46 Edited at: 29th May 2010 14:00
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ok this is wierd but i got it fixed.. i have no clue why but it just works.

after trying the downloaded EXE i checked and it worked.
so , i recompiled after deleting the DLd EXE and when i start it as a Deubg from within Visual CPP it gives me the Eof error , but when i just click the S3GE.EXE inside the Debug (again not the downloaded one) it works with no problem..

i guess we can use it , the problem is that we have no debug feature and that will duplicate our time to find bugs.






Tech thats just an awesome Motivation boost for me after losing it , the ability to run it gives me too many ideas my head explode.

however , i am still waiting for the Ui editor to show some ideas regarding Ui / S3GE editor / Aem
also i have a very good cool awesome game but very simple game extremlly simple game that i think alot of ppl will enjoy and will be addictive and it will include Terrain / Aem at it simpliest form / the Train Logo / up 2 4 players online or using the Xbox360.


the game concept:

you are a train , well not actually the train but the "rail workers" 4 of them , you control them like a team so one click and everyone comes , you start at one place which is the starting point and you need to get your Train aka S3GE loco logo to the end point , you do that by click with your mouse on the landscape and the 4 workers start building a rail from the last rail position so you get sirth of a "pathfinding algo" which on top of that you will get the "rails" instead of moving an object on the pathfinding algo you place rails on top of that why do i repet my slef? and have alot of grammer errors nvm

so in the way to the end point you have all these bonuses some for points and some for "gas" or "boost" or "traps" for the other opponets , btw , the train always run forward so if you have problem with building the rail you may be defeated , all 3 players are racing for the bonuses making the game competetive and fun.

i got it pretty much in my head this is the first time im writing it , and now since S3GE can run , i actually make it using Falcrum newest edition which includes vehicles , the maui Ui and the simplest form of Aem since its a top down no need for high res textures which can be good , so hmmm i'll see where it takes me.
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TechLord
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Posted: 29th May 2010 14:05 Edited at: 29th May 2010 14:17
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Quote: "after trying the downloaded EXE i checked and it worked.
so , i recompiled after deleting the DLd EXE and when i start it as a Deubg from within Visual CPP it gives me the Eof error , but when i just click the S3GE.EXE inside the Debug (again not the downloaded one) it works with no problem.."
That is suspicious. I recommend changing "b1.1" to "b1.2" in the title (main.cpp) and recompile to confirm.

Quote: "i guess we can use it , the problem is that we have no debug feature and that will duplicate our time to find bugs."
The Debug issue is been a pain. However, we do have alternative using the debugclpbrd class which outputs text to the clipboard during runtime. Its not difficult to use and can be strategically placed in the code. I use to find and fix bugs.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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haliop
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Posted: 29th May 2010 14:15
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confirming 1.2 works everything is good. only need to excute it from the folder EXE and not inside VC
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TechLord
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Posted: 29th May 2010 14:22
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Quote: "confirming 1.2 works everything is good. only need to excute it from the folder EXE and not inside VC"
If matty can duplicate your success that will be awesome.

Have you performed any of the Tests? Press 'W' & 'S' to move the camera/canvas forward/backward(Widget Test); Press Space to shoot spheres at the Loco (Physics Test); Move over the big blue gizmo for Caret Test; Press HTTP Test Buttons for HTTP Tests. This demo currently demonstrates all the current features.

Quote: "however , i am still waiting for the Ui editor to show some ideas regarding Ui / S3GE editor / Aem"
MAUI isnt full powered as it currently only has button behavior with textbox behavior in progress. I'm building it up as I go and will most likely have approach a GUI Editor in the same fashion. Doesnt mean we cannot not lay out the Forms for the Editors.

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haliop
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Posted: 29th May 2010 14:48 Edited at: 29th May 2010 14:54
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sure , it will just be much more simplier if the Ui editor was ready since i can one use it to layout the first setup, and secondly to create new buttons with the Lua script so no need to recompile each time, btw i need some help regarding manipulating Lua in realtime for new scripts and behaviors etc..

and yes everything works W,S,Space,TextBOX,Physics with the Logo, but the Http dosent seem to do anything? what should it do?
edit: IVE checked the Network Meter Gadjget and nothing HTTP dosent do any traffic change over the internet whatsoever.. how ever i have no idea what it does so...
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Matty H
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Posted: 29th May 2010 15:11
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I will test this later, I have got to work on an assignment, once I have done that I should have some time for this

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TechLord
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Posted: 29th May 2010 18:05 Edited at: 29th May 2010 18:15
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Quote: "but the Http dosent seem to do anything? what should it do?
edit: IVE checked the Network Meter Gadjget and nothing HTTP dosent do any traffic change over the internet whatsoever.. how ever i have no idea what it does so... "
HTTP Tests perform HTTP GET and POST methods to grab the following files from the Host Server (www.hpquest.com) and caches them in the Debug folder with S3GE.exe:

test.maui
maui_behaviors.maui
splash3.jpg

The maui files are extremely old (version 1.0) and completely useless in S3GE. Checkout
for XML/Script


Quote: "
I will test this later, I have got to work on an assignment, once I have done that I should have some time for this"
My fingers are crossed. Haliop advised running S3GE.exe from the Debug folder, NOT from within VC++:
Quote: "i recompiled after deleting the DLd EXE and when i start it as a Deubg from within Visual CPP it gives me the Eof error , but when i just click the S3GE.EXE inside the Debug"

Thats what I do. I dont use anything in the VC++ Debug menu. I just use the Build menu -> Build S3GE. After Compile/Link/Build successful, go to the Debug folder and click the S3GE.exe icon to execute.

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Matty H
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Posted: 30th May 2010 01:44
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Sorry I have not had much time for this, I'm completely swamped.
Anyway, it runs from the Debug folder but not from inside VC++, I have not had time to investigate but it could well be that its not finding something as when running from VS++ its root folder is S3GE(where main.cpp is) wbut when running from the debug folder its root folder is Debug.

Tech - did you create this error check/report(eof) that we are encountering?
I know I have mentioned this before and it was something to do with the file transfer stuff that I don't really know much about but is there any way the media could not be in the debug folder.
The debug/release folders are generated at compile time, they should not really be needed when sharing files(and they are huge).


I am a little concerned about our lack of knowledge using VC++ and even when we get this recent issue sorted I still think more could be done to the dosp file structure. Its not fair for me to complain without spending some time trying to restructure myself so I will take a look as soon as I get some time.

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TechLord
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Posted: 30th May 2010 09:00 Edited at: 30th May 2010 12:26
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VC++ Debugging has been fixed see post below.

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TechLord
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Posted: 30th May 2010 09:27 Edited at: 30th May 2010 12:22
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GOOD NEWS!!!

I was able to run in the VC++ Debugger!!!

Perform the following steps:

1. Modify VC++ S3GE Properties --> Configuration Properties --> Debugging --> Working Directory --> $(TargetDir)

2. Modify VC++ S3GE Properties --> Configuration Properties --> Linker --> Generate Debug Info --> Yes(/DEBUG)

[EDIT]
After I was able to get VC++ debugging working, i started troubleshooting the darklua <eof> error. What i discovered in the debug was the initialization of the char buffer loading the script was flawed. I rewrote a completely new method to load the file into the darklua::task::batch::script. Now its working like a charm and I'm able to debug and run from the VC++ IDE. New test structure(DOSP.rar) available will be available in 30 mins.
[/EDIT]

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haliop
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Posted: 30th May 2010 12:15
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got it working
but dosent it meens that the splashtask wont run?
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TechLord
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Posted: 30th May 2010 12:24 Edited at: 30th May 2010 12:27
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Quote: "but dosent it meens that the splashtask wont run? "


After I was able to get VC++ debugging working, i started troubleshooting the darklua <eof> error. What i discovered in the debug was the initialization of the char buffer loading the script was flawed. I rewrote a completely new method to load the file into the darklua::task::batch::script. Now its working like a charm and I'm able to debug and run from the VC++ IDE. New test structure(DOSP.rar) available will be available in 30 mins.


I'm on MSN Messenger NOW @ frankie_taylor@hotmail.com

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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Matty H
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Posted: 30th May 2010 12:36
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Great news Tech, glad thats working.

When we started there was alot I never really understood as regards to the direction the project would take as a whole.
My ideas at the start were to give the community an oop interface to S3GE, combining all the greatest plugins people had created into one single API that would be very familiar to people learning C++ in this community. I come to realise lately that there will be no such interface and it does not even matter if we can't run or debug from VC++.

I am not saying the project is going in a wrong direction, far from it, I think you have a good idea of what you are trying to achieve and you have from the beginning. I'm just telling you were I stand right now, I still have a desire to combine some of the best plug-ins into a single API, but on a much smaller scale than this project. This brings me to another issue, this project is huge, we often look at engines like UDK and what tools they have like it may be possible to emulate this huge success with S3GE with just the three of us, and none of us are real experts in C++.

I'm not quitting or anything, I will finish Fulcrum and I will carry on testing, its just that my priority now is to learn C++ and oop techniques and pretty much to bring what I am learning in my degree to anything I create with GDK.

Sorry about being a little negative, its something the project could do without but when we have a team I think its important that everyone knows were I stand.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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haliop
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Posted: 30th May 2010 13:15
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same here , i have no advance c++ knowledge
i started learning back in the day but when i got DGDK i saw that it can be procedual and not OOP and still get some nice results so i guess i just stuck with it , but i dont really care since the idea is good and i can do it somehow making it work and worring about the OOP later on
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TechLord
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Posted: 30th May 2010 13:27 Edited at: 30th May 2010 22:37
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Matty, sorry you're feeling down. Progress has been excellent in my opinion and it will exponentially increase as we continue. VC++ debugging issues have been resolved. I've integrated several great plug-ins with only few subsystems remain (ie: particles, path-finding) undetermined. Things are about to really ramp up.

When I lose motivation, I take a break, play some games or start working on some other part the engine, or start new threads on TGC Forums - lol. Keep the faith my friend.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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jason p sage
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Posted: 31st May 2010 03:58
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Guys - stay motivated! If you're not having fun; switch it up a little.

Look - I'm catching this on the tail end - just happen to be checking out my old stomping grounds... The OOP thing can get REALLY thick - and some folks take it too far to the point where it actually can hurt performance; and can make managing things tricky.

You'll also find things you learn in "School" don't jive necessarily with what folks like "Game Developers" have to do to get the job done. There is a constant balance of SPEED versus CORRECT; Readable and Maintainable versus Black-Magic Taboo Super Code that does amazing things but reads like latin.

Keep this in mind when tackling OOP. Learn a bit at a time and work it a bit. I've had folks see my code and complain that I have to many CLASS members PUBLIC - they told me my users could "break things... and I'd be responsible... My reply? Look - I have no idea what these folks are gonna want to do that I haven't dreamed up myself - let them beat it up and break it!

You know what? Folks like the code base - no complaints; so don't feel like you need to get too THICK on the OOP.

As for debugging issues - if you find that you simply can't get things debugging real time (need to just compile release versions or whatever) - Take the time to make a decent Logging system that reports the SOURCE FILE; Time Stamp; Function; etc. And also make your code so you can change a compiler default to "exclude" the LOGGING stuff for a final release. Just a thought! If you can't watch the code run;break points etc... you'll need those log files. I know they can be a drag - but I have a multi-thread webserver project ongoing and sometimes.. being multithreaded and lots of different things all firing at the same time... well - I'm not able to use a debugger either.. I rely on variou slog files; screen out puts etc.

Well Good Luck friends!

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haliop
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Posted: 31st May 2010 15:04 Edited at: 31st May 2010 15:21
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http://developer.nvidia.com/object/fx_composer_home.html

awesome!

btw its a free tool from nvidia that has to ability possibly to load a created FX with it to DarkGDK , such as shaders and particles.. testing it now.
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Matty H
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Posted: 31st May 2010 17:25
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@jason - Thanks for checking in on us, its good to get outside input. I'm pretty new to oop and I can imagine alot of what you say is true if its overdone. But I don't really feel we are using it at all, ok we may be creating our own classes for our own parts of the project but as a whole the project is not oop based.
Also, everything I have learned so far has helped me write faster, cleaner code.
My point is that I need to investigate these techniques for personal reasons, but there is no reason why alot of my findings can't be brought to this project, I mean, oop design is supposed to make your code re-usable and somewhat portable, whether mine will turn out like that is another matter


@haliop - I downloaded that a couple of weeks back, looks like a good tool although you still need to know the techiques for setting the shader up in GDK, which I know next to nothing about.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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haliop
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Posted: 31st May 2010 18:20 Edited at: 31st May 2010 18:20
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yeah you can check the Shader tutorial that comes with GDK its pretty simple to setup , all you need to do is Load the FX created with FX composer attach it to an Object and walla, however some are more complicated then other but still it should give us an idea of how the FX are created / written so we can create our own and it gives us the ability to create Particles and how a FX / Particle editor look like and what should it include , the problem that i see with it is the time need spent on learning how to use the FX composer, but overall is a good tool.

about the OOP matty take it easy go and investigate its all good , just dont feel down about it, i myself while working or more like thinking about AEM makes my head explode every five minutes cause of directX stuff , with it i learn alot of what DirectX has to offer which is outstanding , its hard and it gets me down cause i dont know how to implent DirectX but i will get past it some time from now then all motivation will rise up again.

look were trying to create a Super 3D Game Engine just the name is self exploding it just sounds hard to do , but little by little we will have a game/editor no one has ever seen before with the ability to do amazing stuff and for free i cant wait to see the smile on ppls who never exprianced game programming or simulations and it jsut keep me going and going, were building something very unique here that for itself should motivate us , its hard i admit but the result will be Super3dGameEngine .. like comeon.. its f**ing CryTek / Unreal/id Tech4/ FrostBite for free..

yeah i just totaly bullisht here.. nvm./

edit:
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TechLord
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 23:16 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 23:42
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Quote: "I still think more could be done to the dosp file structure...When we started there was alot I never really understood as regards to the direction the project would take as a whole. My ideas at the start were to give the community an oop interface to S3GE, combining all the greatest plugins people had created into one single API that would be very familiar to people learning C++ in this community. I come to realise lately that there will be no such interface and it does not even matter if we can't run or debug from VC++."

Matty and everyone,

Debugging is very important, in fact, I wouldn't have discovered the issue with the DarkLUA script loading without it. However, I didn't want the issues with the VC++ Debugger to be a complete show stopper. Turns out the fix was relatively easy. Now, the VC++ debugging issues have been resolved and I've updated a new version of the structure (DOSP.rar) with recent changes. If you missed the fix for debugging perform the following steps:

1. Modify VC++ S3GE Properties --> Configuration Properties --> Debugging --> Working Directory --> $(TargetDir)

2. Modify VC++ S3GE Properties --> Configuration Properties --> Linker --> Generate Debug Info --> Yes(/DEBUG)

3. Compile the project in Debug Configuration. S3GE.exe will be stored in the Debug Directory:


Is anyone still experiencing problems debugging, compiling/running S3GE.exe? What else needs to be done to the new file structure? Please advise, so I can get the need changes in and move forward. Isocadia are you there? Can you test the new structure?

If you can compile/run S3GE.exe successfully, there are a few tests that can be performed:

1. Physics Test:

2. Widget Test:

3. Caret Test(WIP):

4. HTTP Test 1:

5. HTTP Test 2:

6. HTTP Test 3:


Review the main.maui located in
to see how these MAUI XML/DarkLUA scripting setup these test in S3GE.

If these test work good for you, I'm ready to move forward with new SVN structure and from this point forward, I will keep a .rar version available to simplify download. Also, there will be new additions to the documentation to include design docs for the engine and editors.

Things are about to accelerate.

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Matty H
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 01:18
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Some good things going on around here Tech, great to hear.
I will have to test that tomorrow as I am staying up late to get the next version of Fulcrum released, I will add this to S3GE tomorrow.
Keeping an rar version is a good idea, people can then test stuff for us or just see what the project is about before doing all the svn stuff.

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Matty H
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 00:47 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 00:48
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Yeh, everything seems to be working here.
Do you know what this means when you compile in release mode:


Might not matter, but sometimes release mode will flag up errors that debug ignores.

Anyone trying this, just note that this has its own version of GDK so you need to point VC++ to the headers and libs.

Quote: "What else needs to be done to the new file structure?"

If you're fine then I'm fine, I still think that the actual files are all in different places, alot the stuff in S3GE/S3GE folder should probably be included with the other header/libs and add source files to that and point the compiler to them, may not be an issue, it might just be tidier.

Should I update physics now or wait for new structure?

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TechLord
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 02:59 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 02:59
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matty, I've never compiled in release mode. PAPI is part of the future Illudium PU36 Particle System Manager WIP.

Quote: "I still think that the actual files are all in different places, alot the stuff in S3GE/S3GE folder should probably be included with the other header/libs and add source files to that and point the compiler to them, may not be an issue, it might just be tidier....Should I update physics now or wait for new structure?"
Update the new structure, its the direction we're going in. All files C++ files could be sorted in the main include folders. I'll put the core C++ files in there too, if this will make life easier.

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TechLord
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 08:03 Edited at: 5th Jun 2010 08:23
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Update on DOSP Restructure. I'm nearly complete with the DOSP restructure. In a effort to enhance code self-containment and recommendation of Matty, I've fortified #include directives with relative paths to headers and removed VC++ IDE environment variables for additional directories. This makes the code sorta self-aware and less dependent on VC++IDE setup, which can be different for each user. Changes were required for all Plugins to include DarkGDK.

Example:


However, I could not use relative paths with the #pragma comment directive to point to *.lib files. I made several attempts to get this to work using the following formats:









VC++ IDE requires individuals specify the path and directories for *lib files in order to properly locate the Lib Directories for DOSP. From within VC++ add the following entry: Tools → Options... → Project and Solutions → VC++ Directories → Show directories for: Library files → [Absolute Path of DOSP]\DOSP\Lib\vs9

Due to this requirement, Contributors will have to manually add this entry. This may appear simple enough, but, it can cause conflicts if other Entries use same root directory because VC++ will search these directories based on order. Examples of possible Conflict:




I'm still looking for alternatives.

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haliop
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Posted: 7th Jun 2010 13:15
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yo , i have found this on the WIP subforum. i had a glimse at it
i dont know how they do it , but apperntly they made Math calculation much much faster then the normal compiler.

also includes the if expressions and such.

i think we should look at it and plug it in to S3GE.
http://muparser.sourceforge.net/
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TechLord
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:54
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The DOSP Restructure has been completed and is available via SVN. See the new SVN Instructions for details. From this point forward, I will also inclulde a compress (RAR) version to accompany the official revision update.

Along with the restructure of the project, I've managed to develop MAUI's Textbox Behavior. I'm 80% complete with only area text selection/editing remaining. This is my first full powered GUI Textbox and I'm very pleased at the results. Once the Textbox Behavior is fully functional, MAUI will be suitable for creating Menus & Forms for Apps & Games, then development on UI Editor will immediately commence.

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