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3 Dimensional Chat / who likes this model?

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xilith117
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 03:38
well, the title pretty much says it. this is a render of an alien ship for a large project I'm working on. i want to know if anybody likes it, and what changes (if any) should be made to it.

those green lines ripple over it like the reflections on the bottom of a pool (but green) and the front is the top right. that pod in the back is linked to the front through a beam of plasmic argon. there is no windshield as the driver can see via viewing screens. I DO NOT WANT A WINDSHIELD, but other than that: let me know what you think!

vortech
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 15:00
Now it looks like piece of organ meat.

Best texture of the Month.
Yay.
xilith117
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 16:29
haha. nice. i said tell me what you think needs to be done. not what it looks like.

Cyborg ART
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 17:15
To be honest it looks like you started creating a character (torso) and then decided to make it a spaceship instead

I think it could use a little bit more of detail, add some details like windshields...

...

Maybe some hoses, bolts, stripes, lights etc?

mgarand
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 17:16
please move this to 3d chat

bruce3371
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 17:27
I like the nice, simple, organic look to this. I think adding anymore detail would spoil the lines of it. Also, if it's an alien ship, who says it even needs a windshield, who knows what alien technology they have on board to allow them to see ahead!!

Seth Black
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 17:27 Edited at: 15th Feb 2011 17:28
...vehicles attain a certain shape to better meet the tasks they are designed for,
and are always bound by physics.

The shape of this model simply goes against all logic.

bruce3371
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 17:31
Quote: "The shape of this model simply goes against all logic."


So does the shape of the F117 Stealth fighter, and yet it still flies!!

It's an alien ship with alien technology, it doesn't have to follow the rules of human logic/physics.

Just look at the alien ship in the film Alien. If we applied human logic/physics to that, then that would never have flown!!

Seth Black
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 17:54
...equating that blob to an F117 is just silly.

xilith117
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 21:48 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 01:07
thanks bruce3371 and Cyborg ART , these are the kinds of CONSTRUCTIVE comments i was hoping for...Seth Black , your not really helping...I intended for it to be relitively simple, as bruce3371 understood. keep the comments coming!

AJ Schaeffer
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 22:13
I would add thrusters or something...looks like a black booger to be honest...

Making someone's day a little better because of one of my models means a lot to me.
bruce3371
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 22:59
Quote: "equating that blob to an F117 is just silly."


How is it silly? You said that a vehicle has to attain a certain shape in order to fulfill the task that it's designed for; I merely pointed out that because of its unusual shape, technically, the F117 shouldn't be able to fly.

At no point did I compare/equate the spaceship model to an F117!!

xilith117
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 02:47
@AJ Schaeffer:
Quote: "I would add thrusters or something"

ya, i played around with the idea (and still might) but i kinda wanted to keep it organic and simple.idk though. i still may. thanks for the input! lets keep this going !

bruce3371
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 03:43
Sometimes I think we start adding details just for the sake of adding details, then we end up not knowing when to stop and before we know it, that's our work spoiled/ruined. Just my own opinion of course!

What I'm trying to say is this, adding details is all well and good sometimes, but you need to ask yourself, "What function does this particular detail perform?"; "Would an 'alien' spaceship have this particular detail?".

With an 'alien' spaceship, who knows what propels it through space? Is it propelled by 'human' type thrusters, or is it propelled by some other kind of 'alien' technology? In the case of your model, is the pod at the back some kind of alien propulsion system? I think that would work if it is. Again, just my own opinion!

Like I said before, and please don't think I'm trying to dictate how your model should look, I'm not, I'm just stating my opinion; I like the simple lines of the model, it really looks alien and organic. I particularly like the pod at the back.

xilith117
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 04:43 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 04:46
thank you bruce3371,
my original idea was: organic,simple and unlike human vehicles-0 and yes, the pod in back was supposed to be a form of propulsion.
actually the whole reason i posted this to ask what you guys think is because everyone i know says the model's too simple or too "bloblike" very similar to Seth Black's reply...unfortunately, its become quite apparent that the ship is to simple and too alien. what a shame.

bruce3371
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 05:58 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 05:59
I honestly don't think it matters if it is too 'blob' like. It all goes back to trying to impose human ideas/asthetics on to an alien design.

An alien design can be whatever we want it to be!

Quote: "its become quite apparent that the ship is to simple and too alien"


I don't think there is such a thing as 'too alien'; after all, what exactly is 'alien'?

I would understand if someone had said an alien spaceship was too human, but not an alien ship looking too alien!

I like your design, I guess other people don't. At the end of the day, you have your own design style and ideas. Other people can have their opinions about your work, but I think you need to stick with what you like.

Anyway, that's my piece said

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 08:27 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 08:30
Human asthetics are key because humans will be the ones viewing your work. When it comes to using models in games players are drawn to things that are pleasing to look at. Honestly i dont see that. When some of the others said that it looked like a blob they were being constructiv, you just didnt want to see that. What i mean is: your modeled shows no modeling skill, texturing skill, or even design skill.
Thats not something that people say to be mean, were just letting you know that you need practice. Would you rather we tell you that it looks awsome even though its rubish?? How would you progress?? Were telling you for your benifit.
No one that ive met here is about intentionally hurting feelings, but without reading your post i would never had guessed that your model was in any way a mode of transportation alien or other wise.
One thing that i dont think you should change is your ideas on being free to design anyway you like, because there is no wrong way to create art. But in order for any old joe to understand your going to have to incorperate some sort of familiarity. One design that i really like for transportation / ships is the design of the predator and the weatherlight from magic the gathering. These vessels operate beyond the scope of normal physics and in alot of ways are "alien" but they have features that define them as vehicles that are recognisable to people

If i can ill give you a link to them. They may not fit your design ideas but this is more for example then anything.
http://www.phyrexia.com/continuity/Predator.shtml

Anyway hope this helps a bit

EDIT: Btw how does the design on a stealth fighter being able to fly defy logic??

bruce3371
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 08:38
Quote: "Btw how does the design on a stealth fighter being able to fly defy logic??"


The flat surfaces of the stealth design make it unstable and therefore, unflyable. Because of this, it needs a complex fly-by-wire flight control system, just to keep it in the air.

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 08:42
hey you learn something new everyday...

xilith117
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 16:54 Edited at: 16th Feb 2011 16:56
Quote: "Human aesthetics are key because humans will be the ones viewing your work."

Quote: "your modeled shows no modeling skill, texturing skill, or even design skill. "

I hate to admit it but PrimalBeans has a point. too bad.

Seth Black
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 17:50
...you think?

xilith117
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Posted: 16th Feb 2011 19:13
now aren't we full of ourselves?jk

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 07:47
@ mr black... i like your sig

Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 07:51 Edited at: 17th Feb 2011 18:48
Its definitely hallmark card material.

But sadly, it doesnt always end up just fine.

*Viewer Discretion is Advised*
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ec9EbDlRBE4/S8u_VMV_EHI/AAAAAAAAAB0/9cUYvMrF7pQ/s400/starving-child.jpg

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 08:59
ouch.... thats pretty narly to post up replying to a comment on a sig. Its kind of like the person carrying the pictures of dead baby animals being made into slippers around and showing them off to people regardless if they want to see them. People shouldnt be ignorant but you shouldnt force something like that on someone....

I hope im not being too mean. Kind of caught me by suprise.. and im kind of squeamish when it comes to that kind of thing.

Alucard94
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 13:47
Quote: "ouch.... thats pretty narly to post up replying to a comment on a sig. Its kind of like the person carrying the pictures of dead baby animals being made into slippers around and showing them off to people regardless if they want to see them. People shouldnt be ignorant but you shouldnt force something like that on someone....

I hope im not being too mean. Kind of caught me by suprise.. and im kind of squeamish when it comes to that kind of thing."





Alucard94, lacking proper intelligence.
xilith117
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 16:31
wow...that was a little out of line...

lazerus
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 16:42
Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 18:41 Edited at: 17th Feb 2011 18:46
Sorry, but it happens. I was tired last night. I wasnt trying to start an argument, its just, when i see a statement like that, well its all fine and dandy, but its not true.

Sorry for going off of the off topic discussion.

Other then the point made in the AUP of , we decide what is inappropriate, i didnt break any rules, and weve all seen it on those donation ads on tv. If you havent, or you are under the age of 12, im sorry, i edited the post and put it in link form. I was just giving a reminder as to, life is life and it doesnt always end up okay.

xilith117
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 19:18
thats perfectly fine and dandy but off topic...also mildly desterbing. its just noone wants to see that. i have seen the commercials and i am over 12 but didn't want to see that nevertheless.

Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 19:45
Sorry. Didnt mean to upset anyone.

xilith117
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 19:57
GRRRRRRRRRR! IM UPSET! haha

Ed at Thoughtwire Software
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 22:29
Kind of Abstract, I'd probably like to see a little more detail on both texture and modelling before I'd vote for it, so far - Great work

3D Modeller
PrimalBeans
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Posted: 17th Feb 2011 22:45
no problem mmoj... i was tired last night too and could have been a little more restrained myself. dont worry about it. Sounds like we all need to start getting more sleep lol.

Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 00:14 Edited at: 18th Feb 2011 00:17
Quote: "The flat surfaces of the stealth design make it unstable and therefore, unflyable. Because of this, it needs a complex fly-by-wire flight control system, just to keep it in the air."


A car steering wheel has no moving parts and thus it is undrivable. Because of this, it needs a complex car body and engine just to keep it moving.

Thank god the designers of these vehicles had the sense to include the components that are necessary to the vehicle's operation...

Edit: lol, sorry, I couldn't help myself. Enough of that discussion.

xilith117
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 01:14
hey! nice sig! i needed a .x exporter for blender! LOL

Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 18th Feb 2011 04:06
blahhhh i got nothin on that. haha.

bruce3371
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Posted: 21st Feb 2011 18:12
Quote: "A car steering wheel has no moving parts and thus it is undrivable."


You can change the shape of a steering wheel as much as you want and it won't change anything. However, just a small change in aerodynamic shape of an aircraft will render it unflyable.

Therefore, that comparison falls flat on its face!

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 21st Feb 2011 20:51 Edited at: 21st Feb 2011 20:55
He was explaining that he didnt understand what about the stealth design made it impossible for it to fly because it obviously can with the help of the rest of its controlling components. Just beacuse it needs a specialized system doesnt mean that its design is unflyable, because it is obvious that it can fly.

Back to the origional discussion: i could say that its obvious that the green blob couldnt fly no matter what kind of 'steering wheel' it has and at least in asthetic terms the stealth at least looks like a flying vehicle. (So did the ship in aliens.) To reiterate its very hard for humans to by into the space craft thing when it looks like some green rocks shooting particles at eachother and thats the entire point of the discussion.

bruce3371
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Posted: 21st Feb 2011 21:47
We were talking about SHAPES of spaceships/aircraft and my point was that the Stealth fighter's SHAPE made it unflyable without its complex control systems. Those systems are hidden, we can't see them, and yet we know the aircraft flies. In the same way, we know that that spaceship flies even though we can't see exactly HOW it flies.

In human terms, that horse-shoe shaped 'Space-Jockey' ship from the film ALIEN (not the military transport from the film ALIENS) could never fly, but with alien technology on board, it obviously could. Even though it looked so obviously alien, it was still clearly a space ship (although, admittedly, we are helped in coming to that conclusion by the film's script).

The point I'm trying to make is this; a model doesn't have to have human aesthetics to explain its function, clever scripting and/or narrative can do just as good a job if not better. We may not be able to see exactly how it flies, we just know that it does.

VoicesDark
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Posted: 21st Feb 2011 22:23
Actually I kinda like it. If I may make one slight suggestion do a google image search for "Organic Spaceships" and also check out the vorlon ships from babylon 5 which were organic. It might help give you some ideas.

the only other suggestion I would make is maybe elongating it a bit or something because the front and back look way too symmetrical unless that was the look you were going for.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 21st Feb 2011 22:31
Suspension of disbelief. If a person looks at something that defies logic, it removes their belief and immersion.

A human player would look at it and wonder where the defining features are, things we recognise vehicles by - a propulsion system, a noticeable front and back, and almost always, wings.

The X-Wing from Star Wars, the Saber from Halo: Reach, and many other spaceships besides all have wings, when they serve no purpose in a vacuum. Yet these are iconic visions of space flight in an enlightened society.

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 21st Feb 2011 23:36
... ok. Agreed but at the same time the major point is: it would be quite a strecth in script or narative to explain that a green rock is a flying vessel especially to a human who has pre existing understanding of what is flying objects might look like. Let alone the model itself isnt intreguing or pleasing to look at.

bruce3371
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2011 00:43
Quote: "If a person looks at something that defies logic, it removes their belief and immersion."


Which person?! When I see an object that 'defies logic' I like to use my imagination in coming up with ideas about how it might work. I think sometimes games and films give us too much information, thus removing the need to use our imaginations and, consequently, reduces our immersion in the game/film. On the other hand, some have become successful by doing the exact opposite. A case in point; In Half-Life, Gordon Freeman has no voice and never speaks, this is so that we can connect with the character better by imagining for ourselves what he might say and sound like.

Quote: "The X-Wing from Star Wars, the Saber from Halo: Reach"


Both of which are human ships, so of course they're going to have human design features!

Quote: "many other spaceships besides all have wings"


And many others don't! Just take a look at Babylon 5, where even some of the human ships don't have wings, e.g. the Agamemnon!

Quote: "it would be quite a strecth in script or narative to explain that a green rock is a flying vessel"


How so, when Alien managed to explain that a horse shoe was a flying vessel?!!

VoicesDark made a good point about the organic ships in Babylon 5; in which a space ship shaped like a sea anemonea managed to fly! (I'm referring to the Shadow vessels).

IMO Science Fiction is supposed to feed our imaginations, it doesn't need to force feed us information about how something should or shouldn't work.

VoicesDark
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2011 00:46
And just look atthe ship from the series Lexx that was on sci-fi
3Bit
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2011 01:00
Doesn't look good in my opinion, could use alot of work.

3Bit
xilith117
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 16:33
thanks guys!some of these have helped.
@VoicesDark- ill look those up.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 27th Feb 2011 01:17
Quote: "Both of which are human ships, so of course they're going to have human design features!"










It's a convention.

Quote: "When I see an object that 'defies logic' I like to use my imagination in coming up with ideas about how it might work."


Fair enough, but still, if it were to be in game, the player would have no clue of what it is, how to operate or combat it, etc.

I personally hate cobbled together scifi, where they build anything and just file it under future tech as a catch all solution. I like games like Mass Effect, because it's imaginative, but the tech actually makes sense in principle.

bruce3371
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Posted: 27th Feb 2011 04:45
Quote: "It's a convention."








If it's a convention, then it's a convention that's been broken time and time again by the likes of Babylon 5, Star Trek, Alien etc. Which then begs the question; If it's been broken so many times, is it then no longer the convention?

Quote: "the player would have no clue of what it is, how to operate or combat it, etc."


Again, nothing that clever scripting and/or narrative can't overcome.

PrimalBeans
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Posted: 27th Feb 2011 09:00
I fail to see how these designs can be compared to our friend xilith117's design... one thing that your missing in his design and in these is that there is an obvious theme that works with these designs.. I bet you anything that the people who made aliens didnt just create a ship in 2 min and say hey this will work... we'll just make a obvious piece of dialog to explain this piece of shirt... Im thinking that it had a bit more planning and general art know how behind it. Not to be rude but the very author jumped ship quite a while ago... (hopefully to practice and come back with something better.) Its ok to admit that its crap. THis will have to be my last post here... i cant stand the thought of this debate lasting too much longer... lol.

BTW Bruce your definately entitled to your opinion and if you really think that this is as far as he needs to go to perfect his modeling skill then your entitled to that.

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