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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Dark Basic Elite - A Question

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Takis76
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Location: Greece
Posted: 25th Jul 2013 22:27
Quote: "Yea I had to chuckle at this myself. You obviously do not know Lee very well. ..."


Yes I don't know Lee very well? Do you know him very well too?

I know about programming life, but you never start parallel projects if you don't have enough time to work, or hire more programmers.


In my Windows 7 , my DarkBasic doesn't works well and I have a lots of problems even I installed all of these upgrades.
For example I have a strange runtime error 502 image does not exists and image exists.
And other errors with plugins.
All my old source code doesn't compiles and a lots of incompatibilities with plugins versions.

It seems is time to change a languages, my game is on hold for a long time.
And it seems the DarkBasic is abandoned.
I hate all of this stupid mobile tablet iSomething market.

iPad
iPhone
iPod
iThis
iThat
i($#%^#@@#)


In fact I am boring to wait until 2999 AD until FPSCreator Reloaded will finish and AppGameKit Will finish and Freedom Engine will finish and how many other mobile products will finish.

Who among of you here want to have a new version of DarkBasic Pro Elite or fixed the existing one, than playing with AGK. Even if you have pay of it AGAIN.

I believe Lee will make more money to Sell DarkBasic AGAIN for $99 or even for $149 than wait for Pledge.
JamesWalker101
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Posted: 29th Jul 2013 11:54
I didn't even see this thread, so how could about 300 people say their in? Make it on the headline or something, because I think its a great idea, especially
DirectX 11 and Antialiasing.
Clonkex
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Posted: 29th Jul 2013 17:26 Edited at: 29th Jul 2013 17:30
Just so everyone realises, DarkBASIC Elite will probably not be around for at least a year because Lee spending all of his time working on FPSC Reloaded (fpscreloaded.blogspot.com) and Paul is spending his time on AGK.

Lee works by himself in his little cottage in Wales. The Reloaded project is being managed by all of TGC (in particular, Rick Vanner), obviously, but it's being programmed by Lee. Alone. There's no manpower left for DBPro Elite.

Quote: "And it seems the DarkBasic is abandoned."


If you mean DBC, then yes. If you mean, DBPro, then no, I disagree.

Quote: "I hate all of this stupid mobile tablet iSomething market."


So do I!!

Clonkex

Chris Tate
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Posted: 29th Jul 2013 21:29 Edited at: 29th Jul 2013 21:31
The 'iSomething' mobile market has lots of money; plus, your chances of getting it is far more likely than with the top gaming markets.

As painful as it is for me to say....

I think they should focus on one market instead of being the jack of all trades. Every succesful software company, focuses on specialization; some broad, some refined; but I think specializing in mobile games development, FPS games development and general 3D games development all at the same time seems like a bit much.

But it is interesting to see TGC do what they do anyway; something to learn from. Who knows, perhaps there is so great a divided opinion on 'what next'.

Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Jul 2013 04:36
Quote: "The 'iSomething' mobile market has lots of money; plus, your chances of getting it is far more likely than with the top gaming markets."


Oh yes, I know that. I don't so much hate the fact that the mobile market exists, I just don't like what it's doing to other markets. Most companies are trying to convince us that traditional PC gaming is a thing of the past, and it's really not.

I actually intend to release my first game into the mobile market at the same time as the PC one. Hopefully you'll be able to play multiplayer cross-platform, so an Android tablet could play against a Windows PC. Having played SpaceTeam with my brother and sisters and seen how ridiculously fun it was, I know that cross-platform multiplayer is definitely the way to go.

Quote: "I think they should focus on one market instead of being the jack of all trades."


I think TGC is doing very well, considering. I also think that if they take it a step at a time they'll manage, and we'll end up with an AppGameKit that can create 2D and 3D multiplayer cross-platform games easily. It's really cool. As for FPS games, well Lee's the only one doing that, and I think it's well worth it.

Clonkex

Chris Tate
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Posted: 30th Jul 2013 19:22
Yes I did not think about that; cross platform support. The mobile market I guess is by now, out-numbering the console game market.

One the other hand, one of my beliefs is for PC games to be creative; utilizing the versatility and systematic nature of the PC, they cannot go wrong with FPSC reloaded; but us Dark BASIC professional users don't seem to have much to look forward to any time soon. Maybe our time to leap for joy will come some day.

Clonkex
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Posted: 31st Jul 2013 16:11
Quote: "us Dark BASIC professional users don't seem to have much to look forward to any time soon. Maybe our time to leap for joy will come some day."


I'm also a DBPro user. I was a DBPro user long before AppGameKit existed. I still use it a lot; indeed, if you're not making a game that particularly needs to be cross-platform, DBPro is pretty much the perfect platform on which to develop.

And you do have something to look forward to. As Lee builds Reloaded, he sometimes has to make changes to DBPro. He's updated the compiler to compile MUCH faster. I'm pretty sure he's also added his "Instance Stamp" system (a kind of batching) into DBPro itself. All these updates will be released to the public sometime (I'm not sure when, though....I'll pester Lee about it). And the fact that Lee's using BlitzTerrain and needed to update it to allow vertex-level access to the data may mean we get the update as well.

Clonkex

SamKM
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Posted: 31st Jul 2013 19:57
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Lee said the super-fast compiler wouldn't be a free update
Chris Tate
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Posted: 31st Jul 2013 23:21
That sounds good.

Nabz_32x
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Posted: 31st Jul 2013 23:24
fingers crossed.

I hope DBPro gets back to being a fully supported and fairly priced game programming tool.

Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Aug 2013 03:17
Quote: "I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Lee said the super-fast compiler wouldn't be a free update"


Oh, I can't remember. Yeah he might have....I'm pretty sure he was just turning it over in his mind, though, so nothing hard to go on.

Quote: "fingers crossed."


Me too

Clonkex

Marvey
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 15:27
Well, again i am so disapointed with TGC team... first AppGameKit and fpscreator... this is really disapointed.. seems darkbasicpro is allways behind everything.. i am still using it, allwyas with a hope dbp will be upgraded but seems again we will never know if they will upgrade it or not, there is allways comments telling "dbp is not dead, will be upgrade" but seems just lies... we are at 2013 with a long time waiting for upgrades, and the question is? will be really updated or not???? when??? in 2020?? come on.. why the TGC just tell us the project is dead, so we can move on and leave dbpro... i have thinked to leave dbp already so many times allways with a hope... but looking at this posts is strange TGC team dont say a word.. allways the same atitude from this company.. just say there is no future for dbp we stop losing our time here!!
Mobiius
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 17:04
There's not going to be an update to dbp for the foreseeable future. They're working on AGK2 And FPSC reloaded.

KISTech
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 21:17
I sometimes wonder if TGC shouldn't take a step back and develop an environment where you can program in DarkBASIC anything you want, but have a module that provides FPSC functionality, and separate modules to give the ability to port those programs to other platforms. (Android, iOS, etc..)

It would consolidate the focus to a single product, and provide support to all of the various needs of the community and different markets without causing everyone to have to wait years for an update. An update to the core, updates all.

Just a thought...
Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 01:08
I'm looking forward to the morning, when I check the interwebs to find DarkBASIC Elite finally has a Kickstarter ^_^

If we all start to save one dollar a day from today, I wonder what DarkBASIC Elite Kickstarter tier we could afford to purchase on release?

Help build an online DarkBASIC Professional help archive.
DarkBasic Help Wikia
Marvey
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 03:15
yeah yeah... just save your dollar with a software where you got suport and updates... dbp was funny but is time to move on and find another companie to work with.
GIDustin
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 05:50
@Marvey,

You realize that DBPro is being worked on right now, don't you? Read Lee's blog on FPSC:R. In his last post he added LOD commands. It isn't much, but he is upgrading DBPro in the process of making FPSC:R, and then we can all hope he continues the momentum afterwards.

I agree with the kickstarter. I pledged FPSC:R just for the DBPro updates, and would gladly pledge for an official update.
Marvey
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 15:38
GIDustin well if that is true this are good news, because right now i dont know what is true or not, i read already info about dbp will not be updated or there is no future date to update dbp... if you are telling will be update this are good news and i am waiting to spend some money again on dbpro.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 16:07
The modified DBPRO engine which is powering FPSC reloaded is an internal engine and Lee has not decided yet whether to release it
in public. So there is no much hope for DBPro. AppGameKit is the only game
engine they will be focusing on in coming days.
Marvey
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 02:53 Edited at: 14th Aug 2013 02:57
seems so...
Marvey
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 02:54
Nuclearbasic engine will be my future friend for sure.
Leonid
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 03:27
I need a Basic without DirectX, ActiveX, .NET, Framework and 3D absolutly too, but which works with some similar (DX's, .NET's) dlls required in my program. I need 2D like in Foton Basic (Language known also as Sax Basic) (use search). Sprites Collision must work like in DBC (better for special buttons). You can sell optionally some things like Printer worker (like Dark Ink), Sound card worker.

Game Factory in Russia is a cul-desac. It will be better to make useful and thinny well shaped program for one purpose.

What I always trying to do. - To find the way, Bill Gates still did not found in his MS Office, and patent it earlier him.
(To be a Sharlock Holmes before Micro-ft Holmes).
Juggernaut
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 17:26
Quote: "Nuclearbasic engine will be my future friend for sure."


Unfortunately it is in a state where users are starving for update, bug fixes, terrain feature and officially released complete documentation.
GreenDixy
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Posted: 15th Aug 2013 09:33
Even thoe people say it is dated, I probably wont ever stop using dbpro. There is so much that can be done with it on a normal level and plugins.

======================================
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Aug 2013 14:39
That's my opinion too.



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Marvey
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Posted: 15th Aug 2013 17:20
Thats true you can still play with it, and use it for many things.. but try to do big enviroments with it, and then you will see the engine needs a big update... in my case i use dpro just for architecture.. and need to work with big enviroments, thats why i request updates to the engine.
Mage
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Posted: 17th Aug 2013 06:58
I want to buy DB Elite.

Juggernaut
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Posted: 17th Aug 2013 21:34
Quote: "I want to buy DB Elite."


Let it first be on sale at -least
GIDustin
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Posted: 20th Aug 2013 17:33 Edited at: 20th Aug 2013 17:34
Last we heard from anyone at TGC: link
Quote: "DarkBASIC Elite hasn't been taken off the table, and is still under consideration. However AppGameKit v2 and FPS Creator Reloaded have taken top priority."


Perhaps we should start some sort of list features we would like to see from the product, so that when Lee finishes FPSC:R, he would have a full list of what we would expect to see from DB Elite. I read some of the lists already in this thread, and many were very vague. If you tell Lee to "enhance the shaders", how will he know what you mean by that? Here is my list so far.

Latest DirectX, but keep support for 9.0c (Windows XP cannot use 10+. It would be unpleasant for DBPro, which ran primarily on XP for years, to one day stop running on XP altogether.)
Faster Multi-Core Compiling
Smarter, More Efficient, Compiler (See second post of this thread)
Building-in Modules as Core Commands (including Sparky's Collision)
Don't break older DLL files. Some authors are no longer around to make updated versions (Cloggy, Aaron Miller, Diggsey, IanM apparently...)
Easier way to detect DirectX memory flushes (and possibly recover from them?)
Allow us to flag a project to require administrator rights to run on Windows Vista+ (So it doesn't just fail when trying to write to private folders)
Create new versions (or modify the old versions) of all "loop" commands (while, repeat, do) to not do "windows subroutines" after every loop.
OpenGL Support for porting to Max/Linux?
Embedded icons don't lose higher resolution versions used in Windows 7+
Fix the currently reported bugs, especially those in the Your 3 Most Annoying Bugs thread.

We can only hope that when he finished FPSC:R, we see another kickstarter project for DB Elite.
Marvey
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 01:52 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2013 01:58
GIDustin i must say you have there many nice points, i agree with them... the truth is i dont have much expectation from the TGC... many years passed since i start with this litle nice tool but with all this years what i learn is they are just looking for ways to make money and i can undeerstand that, but dpbro was completly forgoten by the creators.. they have others priorities..did you saw the date this post was created? one year ago.. and till now we have no serious proofs they will work again on it... is allways nice to see guys like you giving ideas to improve/fix the engine.. but the truth is we can´t really expect nothing, only the time will show.. but if such happen is just because they lost the interest on the others projects or they didn´t win the money they were expecting.. so dbpro users have just one litle comment from them without any date or a serious comment that dbpro will be for real update.. till such thing happen you probabily will wait some years if happens.
Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 19:58
I wish this thread gets locked. At least that's attainable.

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 21:17
Er, why?



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 22:04 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2013 22:09
I am guessing people are annoying Mobiius.

And I am getting a little bored of the same conversation since...

Wait, I know what we can do

Let us play an idea game....yaaay

Come on, do not be boring... join in. Die boredom, die.

Feature Idea Game


Let us discuss our most coveted features for DB-Elite

How to play

Each page in this thread has 50 designated posts. Each page is to be designated to one feature under discussion.

To propose the feature for the next page, simply post what feature you would like to discuss in the page to follow.

With the remaining 17 or so posts left, vote for the next discussion. The highest vote wins; with any draw designating the votes level as a multi-topic page discussion. Votes to roll over if no clear winner is established.

Once designated, we discuss why we want the feature and why it is essential. When the page is complete, TGC can print that off for reference. Then a new vote commences for the additional page to follow.

A page for votes, then a page for collaborative thoughts on one request, then a page again for votes, and again a page for collaborative thoughts on another request. votes, 50

Come on, you know it makes sense
Yay

I vote for the first page discussion to be about; ~DLL compilation. Windows applications can assemble DLLs dynamically. Allow DB-Elite to compile DLLs so applications can be modular, organized into interdependent parts; instead of jamming everything into one sardine can; waiting for long compiles.

What's your vote????????????????????????

Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2013 23:57
I vote for locking the thread. I'm tired of a thread reminding us that there will be no improvements to dbpro in the near future. As good as agk is, it doesn't replace dbpro (and is not intended to) but I know I'd like to create more advanced games for windows that agk is incapable.

Adrian
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 15:30
Quote: "I vote for locking the thread. I'm tired of a thread reminding us that there will be no improvements to dbpro in the near future. As good as agk is, it doesn't replace dbpro (and is not intended to) but I know I'd like to create more advanced games for windows that agk is incapable."


I agree. They can't even be bothered to sort out the bugs in the old code, let alone making a new version.

I understand that Blitz Terrain has been incorporated into the Reloaded project and we may get it in DBPro as an update someday.
Well I already have it installed on my machine and I don't think that installing an old extension (great though it is) really counts as an upgrade.

DBPro is dead.

Saying that you might get an update one day, maybe, perhaps, simply isn't good enough.
Look at the 3 most annoying bugs thread: That was started on 10th Jan 2012 and I don't see anyone falling over themselves to sort that out, and how long before that was the last fix?
I recall one when Windows 7 wouldn't allow DBPro to compile programs - they HAD to fix that one, but nothing since.

Shame on them for allowing such a great program to die the way it has - slowly, bleeding to death.

Is the FPS_Reloaded project going to sell that many units anyway?
Is there really a market for people using a game-construction kit to make "games"?
Are there any really good games made with it anyway? I certainly don't know of any. From what I've seen, they look pretty crappy to me.
Some of the demos from the Reloaded version don't look bad, but I could probably do a lot of that using plug-ins anyway.

The thing is, if you piss off the people who use the language to make the games, they'll go and learn something else eventually. There's plenty of choices out there, and most of them have better support than DBPro, which, as far as I can tell, is no longer supported in any way and anything that's written saying that there will be updates coming is simply not true.
Once people start to move away from DBPro - they will never return again as the investment of learning a new system will simply prevent that.

Surely they could get one programmer, even if it's part time, to work on DBPro - or are they simply so small that they can't afford even that?

Quote: "Unfortunately it is in a state where users are starving for update, bug fixes, terrain feature and officially released complete documentation. "
No different to Dark Basic then, but at least there's more chance of an upgrade.
Mage
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 17:36
What ever happened to that 20 Bugs list thread? Didn't they pick out the 20 bugs they were going to fix and announce they had someone working on it?

Chris Tate
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 18:49 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2013 18:53
I just do not think that list was organized effectively; who could tell which were the top 3 bugs in that thread?

I wouldn't feel comfortable myself working with such a messy list of wishes and gibberish.

The fact that very little effort was made to produce a clear and well arranged list shows a lack of interest on our part.

If we want them to spend many months giving us what we want, why can't we spend a few days compiling a clearly defined list of what we want; with source code to demonstrate the issues in discussion.

Yes there are bug reports, but how do we justify giving a damn about Dark Basic Elite if we do not bother to discuss the bugs collectively progessively in a professional and orderly manner?
Consensus! Not Jimmy's troublesome afternoon.

It is not like there are an army of TGC developers out there; if there were we would be talking about XBox One support and Shader Model 5.

We should support the concept a bit more ourselves; demonstrating interest and maybe even starting our own bug fixing campaign; code if you can, donate if you can; but the fact of the matter is only one or two people would bother to help anyway... Yet you expect TGC to believe that you want it.

Just my impression

GIDustin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 19:26
@Chris Tate,

I agree with you. First off though, anyone who doesn't want to keep getting emails about this thread should probably unsubscribe from it. As long as this thread remains open, there is a small glimmer of hope that an update will be made. Once you lock it, that hope is gone. I would rather not give up until I hear definitively from TGC either way. I am usually a pessimist, I really want to see DBPro updated, so I am hanging on to this.

DBPro's code is all on Google Code (https://code.google.com/p/darkbasicpro/) so we could not only find bugs, detail the problem with projects that showcase the bug, but also offer the fix as well.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 19:49
GIDustin I agree with you.

Quote: "DBPro's code is all on Google Code"


I've never worked out how to use that - I expect to see some sort of heirarchy of source code files but instead just see folder names such svn, branches, trunk and not much else. How and where are you supposed to enter these mysterious svn commands - and what do you see when you do?

I'm sure the code could have been made available in a more accessible way - The TGC Forum would have been the obvious choice. I feel I'm missing something "obvious" here.



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GIDustin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 20:01
@GG,

At the link I provided, click Source, then Browse. In the nav pane, click Trunk, then Darkbasicpro, then the SDK folder, followed by the Shared folder. I think most of the actual code is in there.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 20:20
That's what I mean. When I click on Darkbasicpro nothing happens, no sub-directories, just nothing.

I've just noticed that there is a small yellow warning in the bottom left hand corner of the window saying Error on page. Could that be related? If so, what can I do about it? I'm using IE8 on this machine if that is relevant.



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GIDustin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 20:35
It seems to all be javascript. You could check to see if your security settings allow javascripts to be run. I am personally running Google Chrome instead of IE. Here is the entire thing in a zip.

Attachments

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Adrian
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 21:02 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2013 21:02
Quote: "What ever happened to that 20 Bugs list thread? Didn't they pick out the 20 bugs they were going to fix and announce they had someone working on it?
"


This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's the "oh, we'll fix it one day" attitude that is starting to annoy me. Fix the bugs one at a time and release that fix, get feedback and see if it really works, or does it destroy something else, then move on to the next one.

Quote: " who could tell which were the top 3 bugs in that thread?"

Who cares? Just pick one and fix it. Every bug fixed would be a step towards "finishing" DBPro.
If I can't have the Elite version, at least give me a version without the huge number of bugs (which have been pointed out in these very forum. How hard can it be? They have all been discovered, documented (often with code to show exactly what the error is and how to recreate it) and presented on the Bug Hunt page of this very forum.

Quote: " so we could not only find bugs, detail the problem with projects that showcase the bug, but also offer the fix as well. "


Right, we should buy or download DBPro (I bought mine), use it until we find bugs, submit a bug report - with code so it can be recreated, then delve into the actual DBPro source code (learning C++ first of course) to fix it, and then release that fix into the community?
No Thanks.

Quote: "DBPro's code is all on Google Code (https://code.google.com/p/darkbasicpro/)"

I had a look on this page. I had a look at the "Issues" page too. It has 6 items on there (one of those isn't even a bug report.)
I think this shows how likely we are to get a new upgrade.

Quote: "I'm sure the code could have been made available in a more accessible way - The TGC Forum would have been the obvious choice. I feel I'm missing something "obvious" here.
"


I agree, it's not easy to locate the source. You have to know C++ (or some version of C) to even understand it, (and if you know C++ to the extent that you could modify the DBPro source code, you probably wouldn't need to use it in the 1st place anyway.) - and what happens if you DO spot the bug. If I fix it myself - how would YOU get a working version? For all I know all of these bugs have been fixed already but no one has released the fix. Who knows?

We definitely need some sort of indication from TGC as to exactly what the roadmap is for DBPro.
Simply ignoring us and sticking their heads in the sand is just annoying people - the very people who bought the product in the 1st place.
Ortu
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 21:22 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2013 21:28
Quote: "I'm sure the code could have been made available in a more accessible way - The TGC Forum would have been the obvious choice. I feel I'm missing something "obvious" here. "


Quote: "and what happens if you DO spot the bug. If I fix it myself - how would YOU get a working version? "


having it on google code through svn allows users to commit updates to it, releasing it here would just create individual unlinked copies outside of the version control. by commiting to a central repository, the updates become available to all.

To work with svn, you need a client, tortoisesvn is a popular one http://sourceforge.net/projects/tortoisesvn/

But does it blend?
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
15
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 21:49 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2013 21:50
Quote: "Who cares? Just pick one and fix it. Every bug fixed would be a step towards "finishing" DBPro. "


Pick one? Which one? Have you seen the source code? If it was as easy as you make it sound, why would they need to ask for the top three issues? Why would there be a delay?? Would it not it be beneficial to the company's financial prospects to slap together updates every week if were possible?

You do not even know yourself which bug is the most problematic on a grand scale; why spend the year fixing bugs which are not?

Quote: "If I can't have the Elite version, at least give me a version without the huge number of bugs"


Precisely why we need to arrange it.
Quote: "
I'm sure the code could have been made available in a more accessible way"


It took me a while to figure out how to get the code on my hard-drive, let alone compile it;

The first thing that needs to happen is for there to be a clear procedure for accessing it, compiling it and updating it.

GIDustin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 21:49
Quote: "having it on google code through svn allows users to commit updates to it, releasing it here would just create individual unlinked copies outside of the version control. by commiting to a central repository, the updates become available to all."


Exactly. I only posted that zip for those who can't view the svn. If any changes are to be made, it should be on the SVN.

@Adrian: I can tell you are frustrated, as are alot of people. When support is dropped for something that you use very often, it gets aggravating when you discover a bug and are helpless to fix it. I just chased Cloggy to twitter and had him dig up source code that he hasn't touched in 4 years just so I could re-make his DBPro plugin and fix an issue myself. If DarkBasic programmers are known for anything, it is finding a way around the limitations that we are given.

When TGC decided to update FPS Creator, they didn't do it "one bug at a time" but instead a complete rewrite which is still in progress today. I wouldn't be surprised if after they are finished with that, they shift their attention back to DarkBasic, primarily because without DarkBasic, there would be no FPS Creator. I bet you could fit every TGC employee into a single Subaru, so I am not surprised that they can only work on one project at a time. Plus, if DarkBasic is as broken as most people seem to think, fixing the bugs would be like putting a new coat of paint on your covered wagon. Perhaps they planned a complete rewrite the entire time but wanted to get Reloaded done first.

All I am saying is that if you don't want to be a part of the solution, at least try not to be part of the problem.

</rant>
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 23:26
Quote: "Exactly. I only posted that zip for those who can't view the svn. If any changes are to be made, it should be on the SVN."


right, I was mostly addressing those not familiar with svn, and those that don't understand why the source was released in the way it was.

imo the language has simply been outpaced by the tehnology. dx11 is considerably different from dx9 and really any significant improvements to the language will require a complete rewriteand at this point for TGC, I dont think the cost vs benefit weighs out.

reading through all the things asked for in DBElite here in this thread, it seems that people are essentially wanting a new Unity/UDK built on a BASIC language, and it's just not going to happen for a wide variety of reasons.

honestly, i feel that DB is a fantastic introductory language for learning and beginners, i would recommend it to anyone looking for a place to start and this is an aspect which will hold true indefinately regardless of the pace of techology or the lack of active support. i see no need for DB to be more than it is, by the time a user becomes proficient enough in the language to properly make use of all these requested features, they have enough foundational understanding of programming to move to a more standard language which is better able to support advanced usage and features.

I still use DBpro regularly because it is fun, quick to implement, and often requires some creative thinking to work around its limits and i enjoy such problem solving, however i also understand the problems and limits it comes with, and instead of wishing and waiting and making little progress, I've spread my attention to many other languages and I'm a better coder because of it. even my DB code improved as a result of picking up other languages.

bug fixes would be great, but obviously are not a TGC priority, and while I would certainly buy DBElite, I dont know that it is something that is needed, we may just need to reassess our concept of the purpose pf DBPro: as with most BASIC languages, it shouldnt really be intended to serve as a be all end all language, but rather to serve as an introduction, and DB does this very well.

But does it blend?
Stig Design Stig Magne
18
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2006
Location: Norway
Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 23:46
i whud back it No Mather what i love dbpro starting to get hang on it
from other tools i have seen&tested dbpro seems best for me atleast

**StigDesign** cheap 3D Modell Pack`s And Music at www.StigDesign.com
soon other aplication`s Software`s Game`s
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 23rd Aug 2013 23:50
@GIDustin

Thanks for the info and zip file. I've just checked the link on my other machine and everything works fine so there's a difference between the two machines - probably the Java thing you mentioned. I'll look into it - one day.



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Chris Tate
DBPro Master
15
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 24th Aug 2013 00:38 Edited at: 24th Aug 2013 01:18
Quote: " we may just need to reassess our concept of the purpose pf DBPro: as with most BASIC languages, it shouldnt really be intended to serve as a be all end all language, but rather to serve as an introduction, and DB does this very well."


Quote: "I dont know that it is something that is needed, we may just need to reassess our concept of the purpose pf DBPro"


Ok, this is speaking for yourself; I disagree with this so much, it hurts; oo I am getting a headache;.. I most certainly think it is really really necessary for the major bugs to be fixed. OK I use the thing at least 6 hours per day every day of the week, so the bugs are in my face, so I suppose that is the difference between us.

I do not think they called it DarkBASIC -Professional- if they intended it to be an introduction to games development; there are plenty of similar solutions used to make and SELL video-games; not learn elementary computer science. In other words, the DLVA driving school tutor DVD I purchased was not made by someone learning how to program with DarkBASIC Learning school.

But do see your point about it not being the be all end all language; no language is the be all end all language! That is why we call them languages; they are dialectical syntax orchestrated to fulfill different needs according to those who make use of them, not to be superior in all areas. This reminds me of the propaganda that a VB.Net application is inferior to a C# .Net application.

I too use many languages; and in my opinion, DBP is favourite for high level programming; low level programming comes in the form of plugins.

DBP is a c++ based Direct X wrapper library featuring a BASIC compiler for people comfortable with BASIC, and Dark GDK for people comfortable with C++.

I doubt you feel it is introductory because of the 'BASIC' prefix, as is the prefix for Visual Basic; but being introductory?? A language containing windows registry functions, raw memory manipulation, shaders, vectors and physics could be called introductory? It's like saying XNA is introductory

I'm not comparing DarkBASIC to C++, I am differentiating them as tools with particular benefits; one being decades older, larger, maturer and supported by the corporations.

Quote: " by the time a user becomes proficient enough in the language to properly make use of all these requested features, they have enough foundational understanding of programming to move to a more standard language which is better able to support advanced usage and features."


The only reason I will not answer why I disagree with this claim in full is because it is not worth writing a novel, no time at the moment.

Let's just say that DarkBASIC is a C++ library hooked to a compiler that can make use of what ever feature, upgrade, API, technology or advancement C++ receives in the form of Direct X and the operating system, and leave it as that for my reason for disagreeing with the above claim. If it were true, I wonder why they used DarkBASIC to build FPS Creator, and not raw C++, are they not professional?

gahhh!? - [edit]Chris jumped on his head and woke up in hospital[/edit]

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