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AppGameKit Classic Chat / App Game Kit V108 Beta 8 - Over 200 New Commands

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Zeerun
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Posted: 8th Oct 2012 18:20 Edited at: 8th Oct 2012 18:20
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This is great news!
Thank you for getting this out for the intel competition!
The only downside for me is I've lost the ability to use my android device for testing as I'm going 3D, so I'm going to need 2 computers to test the multiplayer now, and I'll never truly know how the accelerometer acts for 3D manipulation!

I seek perfection but wear my scars with pride
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Brother
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Posted: 8th Oct 2012 19:07
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Thank you for this beta released!

I am impatient to test it. I discover it just now.

191 new functions ? and 3D management...you work hard at TGC !

Alien or what ?

Best regards

I am not english so xcuse my syntax, grammary or anything else wich could occure some ununderstanding
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Santman
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Posted: 8th Oct 2012 19:28
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Just about to download this now - big thanks to everyone, especially Paul for releasing this....the in app purchasing was the last step that was holding my project from completion so hopefully now I'm set to go.....
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 8th Oct 2012 19:47
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Thanks for the feedback on this first beta guys and gals! I know it's got holes all over but 191 commands was a lot to squeeze in and left no time for 'fresh install' testing at this end. Rest assured beta two will have been give a full test before you get the new files.

The Ultrabook sensor commands are blank for the moment and only really exist within the WinRT platform which was specially designed for the Ultimate Coder Challenge. I do plan to add support for some of these sensors through the 'desktop mode' running Windows 8 so you are armed and ready for the Intel competition (I highly recommend everyone have a go at this one as the prizes are great). Certainly not everything as the commands are much closer to WinRT toys than they are to the layers of complex abstraction needed to give Win32 the same powers.

HTML5 platform will primarily be served through the Freedom-Engine service, and you should be able to drag your media into a free account, cut and paste your code, click Deploy and have yourself an HTML5 version of your app running on our server, free of charge! We do plan some sort of Project Export which allows the HTML5 app to be placed on your own servers (and of course to place them on HTML5 stores such as Google Play), once Freedom-Engine is fully off the tarmac.

As a document, the new template guide is half-baked at best but the intent I think is correct. Maintaining so many templates is a manual and time consuming job for the team, time better served fixing bugs and adding unique content. When the internal team want a template, we always use the interpreter projects as they represent the latest versions of our technology and are highly unlikely to miss any small fixes that might have been made in previous updates.

I can confirm we are almost certainly going to drop MeeGo and Bada from V108 onwards in favour of platforms still supported by the original manufacturers. Playbook still has a following and is still supported by Blackberry and so to shall we.

We will not be releasing new AppGameKit Players until the official V108 update has been released so the only way to get them at the moment is to build them using the 'beta2' files coming this week. We are also pencilling in the addition of the Android platform as well to Beta 2 for those who prefer Google to Apple

Thanks again for your patience, hopefully the 'What's New' section of the Help documentation shows you some of what we've been up to!

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 8th Oct 2012 21:17
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Quote: "The engine has been upgraded from OpenGL 1.4 to OpenGL 2.0 with shaders now running everything instead of the fixed function, so there may be some unexpected changes in there. I checked the depth range 0 to 10000 but unfortunately didn't test negative numbers, since they are technically not supported. "

Do this mean that it runs better on android sandwich also now?

There is a performance upgrade with 2.0 as some devices emulated the older version ?
Or whas it switched the other way?

Android 2.3 , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz , Sony ericson arc 480x854 , 1 ghz
Android 4.0 , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , 1.2 ghz
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bjadams
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Posted: 8th Oct 2012 22:14
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Thanks for the update Lee

the idea of these weekly betas!
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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 03:32
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Any ETA as to when we'll be getting animations to go along with the new 3D commands?

Kravenwolf

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greenlig
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 07:57
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Looking forward to playing with this update. The Facebook and Twitter integration is good, and the 3D will be interesting.

A question: Will vertex manipulation be possible at some stage? I'd love 2D geometric shapes, especially polygons, to be integrated. This will probably be easier with the 3D commands, but I can't see it on the horizon just yet.

Greenlig

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 10:51
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Animation is a must in the near future in my opinion and I'm pretty sure the rest of the team will agree but ETA I don't know sorry.

I would also agree that vertex manipulation is a must.


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Pawprints
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 14:43
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Will the video commands work in Beta 2? Looking forward to being able to build an iOs project as I want to test the facebook commands. I'm also looking forward to seeing how the 3D commands grow to support animation and bone based animation. Also seeing how you can apply specular and bump map textures etc.

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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kaleb_zero
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 18:59
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Drawing functions for lines/circles/boxes, etc. were supposidly in the works according to the roadmap found on this page:
http://www.appgamekit.com/platforms-and-features.php

I'm just wondering if there are still plans to include them. Currently, my project has to make use of some creative methods to enable on-screen drawing of lines etc.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 21:11
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The example 3d program doesn't work at all on windows 8. Getting lots of "Failed to load...." messages.

Only works on windows 7. Doesn't compile in windows XP.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 22:39
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The video commands will work for iOS in BETA2 yes, but we're still choosing an API for the Windows integration. No drawing or animation commands in V108 but we will be looking at these for V109. You can mimic drawing with the Sprite and GetImage commands, but I'll leave that for another community member to elaborate on. We moved away from fixed function to shaders in order to create a cleaner code base when we added 3D commands, and also to give us greater control of the 3D content moving forward. With fixed function you are always making a choice. With shader only, you have a single choice with the greatest flexibility. We can create some basic shader pipes, but then you can take it the rest of the way and create any visual effect possible through shaders. I am working on the V108 BETA2 files now, which looks like they will include Mac and Android platforms too, so watch this space!

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 22:41
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Microsoft Windows 8 will only ship with OpenGL 1.1 fixed function drivers by default. You will need to install the latest drivers for your device to get the full OpenGL 2.0 drivers required for the new shader based pipeline. Some older netbooks would also require their OpenGL drivers updating as well.

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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Rich Dersheimer
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Posted: 9th Oct 2012 22:54
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Quote: "Microsoft Windows 8 will only ship with OpenGL 1.1 fixed function drivers by default. You will need to install the latest drivers for your device to get the full OpenGL 2.0 drivers required for the new shader based pipeline. Some older netbooks would also require their OpenGL drivers updating as well."


Does this mean we are back to the "you have to install something extra to run my program" like with DX9c in DBPro? Very disappointing if true. Shame on Microsoft.

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bjadams
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 00:20
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Rich I don't think Windows user will need to install anything extra, just make sure that their graphic card drivers are upto date.

Eventually Nvidia, Intel etc will release updated win8 drivers with ogl 2.0 support
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 02:06
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It's not an ideal scenario as I would prefer every app to work on every fresh install of every platform, but Microsoft seem to have very strange views about OpenGL I am just uploading the BETA2 files now which offer the rest of the iOS files (sorry for B1) and also includes the Android and Mac platforms as well. Bear in mind commands across all four platforms having missing code, but the command set is solid and you should have no trouble compiling and running across the big four. The worst that should happen is that some commands don't do what they are documented to do (rather than crash). We will add help text to those commands where the command is not possible (at the moment) on those platforms, but we're determined to ensure we get as much functionality in every platform for the final V108 release. We will not be adding Playbook to the main V108 update as the code is back at V107 stage and would mean delaying the rest of the platforms quite a bit so expect that one to follow after some additional coding.

Anyhoo, I will leave the file uploading overnight and sort out a link for you all Wednesday AM GMT. Paul is currently looking at video playback for Windows so that's something else to look forward to in Beta 3.

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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xCept
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 02:06
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Quote: "I'm just wondering if there are still plans to include them. Currently, my project has to make use of some creative methods to enable on-screen drawing of lines etc."


Some of the existing documentation (e.g., GetImage) also alludes to these drawing commands that don't yet exist. However, Baxslash put out some nice functions to draw most primitives--perhaps those are the methods you're already now?

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=193433&b=41&msg=2324271#m2324271

Quote: " Does this mean we are back to the "you have to install something extra to run my program" like with DX9c in DBPro? Very disappointing if true. Shame on Microsoft."


Like bjadams said, unless the user hasn't installed the official video drivers (or if they have a very poor on-board card) this shouldn't be a problem.
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Pawprints
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 02:33
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Cheers Lee

I know a number of people including myself had issues with orientation in Xcode. I'm just wondering whether this beta will work out of the box (the xcode template) using iOs 6 and xcode 4.5? Or is it best to stick with Xcode 4.4 (I'm also praying that the iPad camera orientation issue is fixed in this beta too... )

One final question. What is the best video format to use and what will it play ? I'm guessing mp4 is the best option for iOs.

Cheers, and I look forward to building and testing the next beta and I may have to add some 3D effects to my current project just because I can now.

If it's not broken don't keep trying to fix it.
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Rich Dersheimer
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 02:41
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BJ, xCept, in case you missed it the first time...

Quote: "Microsoft Windows 8 will only ship with OpenGL 1.1 fixed function drivers by default. You will need to install the latest drivers for your device to get the full OpenGL 2.0 drivers required for the new shader based pipeline. Some older netbooks would also require their OpenGL drivers updating as well."


My touchstone in this area is my dear old dad, 70 years old, who loves to play bookworm. But he has zero patience with anything that doesn't work "out of the box" and updating his video drivers is not something he knows how to do.

And he is not going to install Chrome or Firefox just to see a program I write in Freedom Engine.

Luckily, he probably won't be getting a Windows 8 computer any time soon.

dersheimer.com
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Hodgey
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 04:01
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It could pose a problem when it comes to app validation as well. Intel and Microsoft might be expecting apps to run on OpenGL 1.1. Let's hope they catch up to OpenGL 2.0 quickly.

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lilpissywilly
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 12:10
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Loaded the app I'm working on into 108 and the compiler just crashes every time I try to compile. Reverted to 107

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BatVink
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 13:17
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I spent 5 minutes updating my Intel HD drivers and everything worked fine again. The new driver was dated November 2010, so I imagine most people are up to date.

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Santman
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 13:58
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I just wanted to second bjadams in saying thanks for releasing the updates more frequent and keeping us informed. I primarily use android, but I've no issue in betas being released for short periods that don't support anything - at least then we know what's coming and can plan accordingly. Would love to see the regular beta updates keep coming.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 14:30
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The Beta 2 files are now in your TGC Product Files area which fixes the iOS issue and also adds Android and Mac platforms to the build. We're hoping this is the final command set for V108 and it's now a case of fleshing out some of the commands on various platforms to bring them in line with each other.

I take your point about OpenGL and 'out of the box' compatibility, and I will be championing this requirements within the team. We needed a shader engine to secure the best technology for our visual aspirations, but if the lack of OpenGL 1.1 support is disruptive then we can look at resolving this for Windows (i.e. legacy fall-back).

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 15:01
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I thought I posted here...

Thank you lee, looking forward to BETA 3... I shall continue to work in DBP until AppGameKit gets on some stable grounds with 3D... I just want to say I am not so overly concerned about animated 3D objects right now.. just get the engine up to scratch I want to build environments for now... oh and VIDEO!!!

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risecreature
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 20:54
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I would like to see 2 commands, both for 3D:
SetObjectDepth, for mixing 2D sprites with 3D objects;
CreateObjectTriangle, to create basic geometry structure.
My project works well with new BETA, excluding some issue with CloneSprite command, but I solved this one.
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Space Dream Studios
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 22:22 Edited at: 10th Oct 2012 22:50
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Was able to compile the iOS player, great! Tried the first person 3D demo on my iPhone4... is working, but only 10 FPS
OK, on iPad3 it runs with 50 FPS.

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Brother
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 22:38
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Ouch...Too bad...

My Mobile Intel 945 Express Chipset does not support OpenGL 2.0
and obviously there is no driver to make it evoluate.

So AppGameKit is limited to v1074 for me. I already had error message with v1076 each time i try to run a program. Somebody from AppGameKit team said there will not have this message anymore in folowing version.

But in fact now with v1082 there are several OpenGL error message and compiler crash...Was it a political promise ?

I am not english so xcuse my syntax, grammary or anything else wich could occure some ununderstanding
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 22:38
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I got the iOS player working (on my iOS 5.1 iPod Touch and iOS 6.0 iPad 2) and was able to run the 3D-FirstPersonExample. But it took a long time to display. But it ran. Cool demo. On the iPod it only ran about 10fps. On the iPad it blazed at about 60fps.

I made sure that the app names and bundle identifier were different for the v1076 and v1082 Players, so I have both on my iPod.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Rich Dersheimer
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 22:48
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Somehow I've lost my provisioning profile since the last time I tried a compile on my Mac. The iOS player runs my v1082 player, and plays a spinning 3D globe with no trouble, but I can't put the player on my iPads until I get this provisioning mess figured out.

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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 23:45
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Well, not much luck with compiling any VS 2010 solutions for v1082. This link shows what happened when I created a Windows T2 template.

A couple of posts up from that I describe the problem with just trying to compile the windows player.

Some things are still missing for a Windows build.

Tomorrow I'll give the Android build a try.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Pieter11
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Posted: 10th Oct 2012 23:55
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Where can I find the latest android player with ads support? Which version of AppGameKit with which version of android player do i need to have. I can get the ads displaying to work on windows with my account but not on android running any player..

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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 00:22
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maybe we were asking too much by wanting t2 templates. i mean, even opensource sdks have proper working templates and examples, but anyway...

but i thought that the Player templates would work! How can we build t2 project files from Player templates that don't even compile as is?!!
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 01:13
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The iOS one is okay. The Windows one appears to be missing some libraries, or assumes that we have some of the core stuff used by AppGameKit developers installed.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 05:26
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Maybe I'm just imagining things, but compile times seems to be greatly increased. Can anyone else confirm?

Sean

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Santman
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 13:09
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I'm going to play with the new beta tonight, but I'd guess that compiling time would largely depend on the system doing the compiling. I have a quite extensive project that uses most of the old features in some form or another, and compiling takes less than a second, but that's on a 2.3 quad core AMD. I suppose it would also depend on "coding efficency" to a degree - the more code you compile, the longer it'll take. TBH compiling speed doesn't concern me, so long as it works. Lol.
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Zeerun
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 13:59
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Quote: "TBH compiling speed doesn't concern me"




Couldn't resist

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MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 14:50
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Zeerun haha also Nanaki!

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 16:04
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I finaly tried the beta, and the 3d commands seem to work good from my little testing. But there is one thing im worried about. With sprites, you could write ID = CreateSprite() to give an ID to the sprite automaticaly. But that dosn't seem to work with any of the 3d commands. Is it intended or is it just a bug. This feature was one of my favorites when going from DBP to AppGameKit so it would be a shame to see it go.

Also, the "Compile,run,broadcast" button (F5) dosn't seem to work. It compiles but when it get's to broadcasting it stops, and has to be aborted. and it dosn't seem to ever run the program. Which is a bit anoying...
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Ranietz
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 16:35
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Are there any examples on how to use the new shader command? I haven't used shaders before so I don't know how to use them.
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Mobiius
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 17:35
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When I ran the demo I got all black objects. The ball appeared white, and the background was that light blue colour, but no objects were lit.

Also, When I clicked "Compile,run,broadcast" it failed to run for me too. I had to compile, then run.

Fresh install of windows 7 x64 Enterprise, running the new beta.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 17:51
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If you were trying to broadcast, what were you broadcasting to? Did you build a new v1082 Player for your iOS or Android device? (I was able to create an iOS one, I haven't tried the Android one yet.)

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Mobiius
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 18:40
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If that was directed at me, then no players. Windows only.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 18:49
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Mobiius, yes it was directed at you, sorry, should have been explicit.

Don't use the 'Compile,run,broadcast' button if you don't mean to broadcast. I would bet that the IDE actually is looking for a response from the Player and if it doesn't find one, it hangs. There is some back and forth between the IDE and the Player during the app load.

Also, if you need to compile before running, use the Compile button and then the Run button. In theory, the Run button will also compile. But it doesn't always and using it that way caused the v1076 IDE to hang sometimes.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 21:43
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Quote: "Also, the "Compile,run,broadcast" button (F5) dosn't seem to work. It compiles but when it get's to broadcasting it stops, and has to be aborted."


Go to :

AGK/IDE/Compiler/interpreters

right-click Windows.exe and "unblock"

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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Oct 2012 23:45
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I have found in Beta 1 and Beta 2, that if you try to do a compare between non-compatible variables, you do not get a suitable syntax error. The program fails to compile with a nonsensical negative number. I only found out what the error was by reverting to 1076 and compiling there.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 12th Oct 2012 01:53
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It may get worse before it gets better folks I have been reliably informed by my team that we should have called this an Alpha and it was cruel and unusual for me to give you a version with this many holes in. If you're not ready to leap over these monstrous gaps, I will tweet when we are officially at a 'real' beta, i.e. all commands have code and all platforms running as expected.

I was just so excited about 3D I wanted to share the joy. Thanks for the feedback so far and it does sound like we might have to look again at bringing OpenGL 1.1 back to the party in some form if more community members agree this is important for 'out of the box' scenarios.

The 3D example is pretty intense with nearly 10,000 polygons in the scene, all of which are being rendered with an intense per-pixel shader. The final 3D example for the product will be something a little more friendly to regular devices. The reason this one was used was to create an intense test to measure the relative speed on various devices. In real applications, you would probably switch off per-pixel lighting for the first few generations of iOS device and leave the feature optional for higher performing hardware.

I will be back in the saddle next week and will compile a list of things to check before Beta 3 is released. If anyone feels some of the feedback needs more flesh so I can quickly reproduce and resolve (mainly for issues that did not exist in V107 and now exist in V108) then I can stomp through them quite quickly when the time comes.

Hogging the awesome since 1999
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 12th Oct 2012 09:24
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updated my graphics card driver and 3D example now works on XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8. Well done TGC, I can't wait to try out all the 3D commands and test on MAC.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 12th Oct 2012 09:41 Edited at: 12th Oct 2012 09:42
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Just tested on a virtual MAC (running on the AppGameKit Player) and get the error 'Unknown Instruction 1049 at line 15' which I think is pointing to the LoadObject command. Does anyone else get this error?
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