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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Ouya Adventures

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 12:13
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Rick:
Does this means that Paul now have an Ouya to play with?

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 18:56
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I've uploaded a new Android player to the downloads section that fixes the crash on Ouya and adds controller support to the raw joystick commands. You can also use the Ouya button to exit apps and return to standby. We won't be adding IAP to 108, you will need to have AppGameKit version 2 for that.

There is one small bug I noticed that I'm wondering if anyone else experiences, sometimes when holding down the Ouya button to return to the home screen the home screen freezes and loses its menu forcing me to restart the device. Not sure if it is something I'm doing or if it happens with other apps as well.

You can use the following tier 1 code to test controller support

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 19:07 Edited at: 4th Jul 2013 19:08
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Paul:
I just got my Ouya today, it's downloading games right now (it's already full). So I have only tried 2 games so far. I still need to sort out the 108 collision problem with RTA to try your new player. Have taken a break from coding and getting back is the hard part.

The Ouya button, or menu button, should not be used to exit games in the player as it should be the button to call up the in game menu. This is recommended by Ouya but it's not yet used in all games.

To exit a running game (back to home screen) you should actually double press the Ouya/menu button, but I guess holding it also works.

Very exciting times. Keep up the good work Paul

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 19:42
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Quote: "The Ouya button, or menu button, should not be used to exit games in the player as it should be the button to call up the in game menu"


Good point, I don't think any single button would work then as they are likely to have other uses, so perhaps some combination of buttons all held down together should exit to AppGameKit standby mode?
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 19:56
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well.... im joining the wagon ride aswell and just ordered my ouya today

I cant wait to see what this thing can do....and what I can come up with to develop for it.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 20:14
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Paul:
Like holding both triggers or bumpers while pressing the menu button? That should never happen in a game, not even by accident.

SMD_3D:
If you like indie games you can't go wrong with an Ouya. Or if you want to develop for a console.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 21:21
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Quote: " We won't be adding IAP to 108, you will need to have AppGameKit version 2 for that."


Is there any way we could convince you to change your minds about that, having full Ouya support this early on in the consoles lifetime would make it a lot easier to get into the market before it gets crowded
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 22:32
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Quote: "Is there any way we could convince you to change your minds about that, having full Ouya support this early on in the consoles lifetime would make it a lot easier to get into the market before it gets crowded"


That would be if TGC released it as an early v2 beta. Basically v1 with full Ouya support. Released right after the Kickstarter. That would also make it more interesting for backers that already owns an Ouya or planning to get one soon.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 22:42 Edited at: 4th Jul 2013 22:43
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Indeed, let's hope that's the case.

You could probably add it yourself if you are using T2.
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 00:09
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Quote: "Like holding both triggers or bumpers while pressing the menu button?"


That's a good combo, however when I tried it it appears pressing the Ouya button cancels any other buttons being held down so instead I've gone for holding down both bumpers whilst clicking both analog sticks. I've uploaded a new version to the same place.

Quote: "Is there any way we could convince you to change your minds about that"


Since we promised Ouya as part of the kickstarter it makes sense to deliver on that. A v2 beta after the kickstarter is finished sounds like a plan.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 00:29
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Quote: "I've gone for holding down both bumpers whilst clicking both analog sticks."

That works too

Quote: "A v2 beta after the kickstarter is finished sounds like a plan. "

Sounds great! Make sure Rick promotes this during the Kickstarter, if you are going with it. That would hopefully attract more backers.

I really need to start coding. If I didn't have a stiff neck today, and my Ouya hadn't arrived. I would have had plenty of time to code.

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Jammy
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 02:51 Edited at: 5th Jul 2013 03:05
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I tried your new Android player on my TV stick (MK802IV http://www.cloudsto.com/android-mini-pc-s/rikomagic-quad-core-mk802iv-8gb-flash-bluetooth-dhl-express-shipping-detail.html)

It recognises when joysticks are attached.
It registers getrawjoystickx(i) and getrawjoysticky(i) properly and moves the sprite very smoothly.

However

It recognises my physical keyboard as Joystick 1, but does not recognise any button presses(not really a problem).

It does not recognise any Joystick Button Presses. (after becoming excited when seeing the sprite move, this was a big let-down).

I have tried a joysick and a joypad. Also I increased the j value for getrawjoystickbuttonstate(i,j) to 32 with no effect.

The joysticks both work in the android operating system and with programs like MAME.

I know this was written specifically for the Ouya, However It is so close to working on these TV sticks too. There may be as many of these sticks sold as Ouya`s as they come from many manufacturers. Hope you will look in to making joystick commands compatible with them too, Even for version 2 of AGK. It does not look as though it would take much and would increase target markets. Might make it work with the Gamestick too.

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Funnell7
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 16:11
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I now have Happy Chick working on the Ouya (minus the occasional crash, reported above). I probably should do something about the screen resolution and I'll also change the controls once Beta 15 is here (current I'm using the D-Pad)... But for now, I have attached the .apk if anyone is interested in giving it a try...

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 19:23
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Quote: "I tried your new Android player on my TV stick MK802IV"


Unless I'm mistaken that doesn't come with a controller? If not which controller are you using with it? The only way we could support it would be to see a LogCat output of each button press matched up with which button was pressed to generate each event.

Quote: "It recognises my physical keyboard as Joystick 1"


I don't have a USB keyboard to test, but if the keyboard is identifying itself as a gamepad then it would be pretty difficult for us to detect that it is a keyboard and not a gamepad.
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 02:22 Edited at: 6th Jul 2013 02:29
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here is an awesome idea!

what if.... (drum roll)

we used our tablets as controllers? has anyone ever played Zelda 4 swords adventures? Now with this new console it should not be very hard to code a game to take advantage of using a touch screen tablet as a control device and even display independent screens from your friends playin as well.

a cool idea is even a card based game where each person can see their hand on their screen.

another cool idea is to have it so the ouya shows the main game... the tablets control it and are able to play transmitted sfx and show character stats.

the possibilities are endless. really...

That's it... im making a mini remake of jaws for nes showcasing such a playmode

Of coarse I will rename the game something else and draw and code it all. Ill post a video when I have it working.

2 player mode using 2 blackberry playbooks as display/controllers using the ouya to operate the main part of game showing main map and where the 2 players are currently at in the sea.

and when you go in the water you will play on the controller /tablet (visually)
this is gunna be fun!!

edit: for those that don't follow... I mean by using Wi-Fi for the communication process.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 10:30
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SMD_3D:
You don't know Jack have a controller app and there's an app available where you can use a phone or tablet as a keyboard for your Ouya. I think both of these use Bluetooth. But as you say, you can do a lot more with Wi-Fi.

P.S.
I believe you are using one of the worst NES games ever made for this...

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 17:10 Edited at: 6th Jul 2013 17:23
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Quote: "You don't know Jack have a controller app and there's an app available where you can use a phone or tablet as a keyboard for your Ouya."

ouch!

a controller app does not posses the ability to show a graphic display on your tablet....any ways it was just an idea. try Zelda 4 swords on game cube and you will know the idea that I speak of.

Secondly...jaws is not too bad of a game. What I plan on doing with it will be different anyways and will have a 2 player mode. Also its an easy small project that I could finish in a week or 2 to test out this idea.

edit: also im not making a controller app... the game would be available to play in many forms (multiplatform) but has the ability to use a tablet as a control device if you have windows or an ouya.

but right... I don't know jack.

hum... "you don't know jack" is that a developer that made a controller app? I may have misread your reply...lol! you may want to type it a tad different future reference.

I cant wait to get my ouya in the mail....probably next week Friday.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 20:07 Edited at: 6th Jul 2013 20:11
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LOL "You don't know Jack" is a well known trivia game, that is also available on Ouya. In fact it is like game 3 on the featured games list. But I guess that's hard to know if you don't have an Ouya yet.

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Jammy
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 05:10
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@ Paul Johnston
Quote: "If not which controller are you using with it"


Any USB joystick or keyboard can be plugged in to its USB port. I use the ones I have used for years (I have had my freestyle since windows 98 and used a version of the Competition Pro since my C64).

Competition-Pro-5000
LogCat output

Microsoft Sidewinder-Freestyle
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sidewinder-Freestyle-Including-Motocross-Madness/dp/B00004VWYM/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1373160742&sr=8-6&keywords=microsoft+freestyle

These are standard PC peripherals.

I had a look into logcat,
http://developer.android.com/tools/help/logcat.html
It will take a bit of learning. Will get back to you if I figure it out.

AGK already makes use of the USB keyboards and mice I have used flawlessly , except GetKeyboardExists() returns a 0. I just thought it was strange the keyboard was getting recognised as a joystick.

These TV stick devices can be bought for as little as £25.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_5_4?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=android+tv&sprefix=andr%2Caps%2C211

and it seems like a standard android tablet operating system.

Thanks for the interest.

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Tone Dialer
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 08:17
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@ Paul

Is there any chance of getting GetDeviceName() to return 'android-OUYA' instead of just 'android' on this new platform, please.

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fog
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 16:42
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Quote: "Any USB joystick or keyboard can be plugged in to its USB port. I use the ones I have used for years (I have had my freestyle since windows 98 and used a version of the Competition Pro since my C64)."
As on PC, each controller uses a different combination of input registers for sticks and buttons and it's impossible for AppGameKit to support them all.

The one good thing the Ouya does is standardise the controllers.

If you want your game to be playable by everyone, whatever their controller, then it's up to you to include joypad configuration options in you game on any platform that supports multiple controller types.

It's a pain, but there is no easy way around it.

@Paul
Is there a GetControllerName() or equivalent like there was in DBPro? I used that to detect and set-up inputs for common controllers like the XBox360 one myself.

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apocolyp4
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 19:54 Edited at: 8th Jul 2013 20:39
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This weekend I took part in Moly Jam 2013 in Glasgow. From Friday till Sunday I live in Glasgow Caledonian University building the game Acorn Warriors. I used tier 1 AGK. Its the first game I have built from scratch for the Ouya. I was in a 2 person team with me programming the game and some one else who did the game design.

Ive attached the Ouya version of the game to this post.

The game is a 2D platformer where the objective is to kill all the enemies and collect the golden acorn. To kill the enemies you have to stun them by shooting acorns at them. After which you need to smash them over the head. The game can be played by up to 4 players at the same time. If there are more than one player playing then once all the enemies have been killed they need to fight each other to the death to win the golden acorn.

Here is a video of the game running on the Ouya


And here is an Xtream edition running on PC


Here is a couple of images from the game jam of people playing the game.




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RickV
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 21:53
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Great looking game and just love the music!

Make sure this gets onto Ouya store!

Rick

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th Jul 2013 00:06 Edited at: 9th Jul 2013 00:07
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apocolyp4:
That looks really nice

Isn't that music (The Chordettes - Mr. Sandman) copyrighted or something?

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apocolyp4
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Posted: 9th Jul 2013 00:38
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No idea Digital Awakening I don't even like the song but the game designer insisted.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 9th Jul 2013 01:21
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It was 1954, when I'd only just had my first long trousers.

The song is probably well out of copyright. You'd only get sued for the appalling rendition!

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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RickV
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Posted: 9th Jul 2013 10:20
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I thought I was watching a game based on Back to the Future when that music kicked in!






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Lavaflyer
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Posted: 9th Jul 2013 22:46 Edited at: 9th Jul 2013 22:50
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So I'm working on a top down game for ouya which involves driving a vehicle. Currently I'm using this code to move and turn the vehicle with the first ouya joystick:



This works for instantly rotating the vehicle and moving it forward, however I want it to recognize a press left on the joystick as slowly turn up, a press right on the joystick as slowly turn down, a press forward on the joystick as move the way you're facing, and a press backward on the joystick as move in the reverse direction. My question is, what is the best way to achieve this - I know I need to get the x and y of the joystick and set some bounds-like any of the 90 degrees left joystick press registering as a left press and turning up but I dont know how to go about doing this with the x and y components of the joystick. Has anyone ever done anything like this with virtual joysticks cause it would be the same here. thanks!

Also, Paul

Quote: "I've uploaded a new Android player to the downloads section that fixes the crash on Ouya and adds controller support to the raw joystick commands. You can also use the Ouya button to exit apps and return to standby. We won't be adding IAP to 108, you will need to have AppGameKit version 2 for that."


Does this mean your new player doesn't support button presses on ouya controllers like hockeykid's modified player does, cause if so there's no reason for me to switch to the official player, is there? I can live with the few crashes hockeykid's player has.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 20:21 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 20:56
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So, finally installed the AppGameKit player on my Ouya.

First off, it takes for ever to send apps through the wifi to the Ouya. It's blazingly fast on my phone. Connecting an ethernet cable makes the download as fast as on my phone.

And then the FPS is horrible! On my phone I get a constant 60 FPS, on Ouya I get 34-37 FPS. And my phone is a Galaxy S2, which I believe have worse hardware than the Ouya's Tegra 3. Anybody else experienced this or know why it happens?

Is there any way to detect when the menu button is pressed?

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xCept
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 23:46
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I don't have a Ouya, but have read from many developers that it can have pretty poor graphical performance (20-30 FPS) on many apps.

i.e.,

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420878,00.asp

Quote: "What really disturbed us, though, was the graphics test results. The Ouya scored only 38.6fps on the relatively low-stress Nenamark 2 graphics benchmark. On GLBenchmark 2.5 HQ, which comes closer to console-quality graphics, it crawled along at 11 fps. That GLBenchmark test stresses most mobile processors right now, but many of them are able to muster 20 or 30 fps. The flagship Samsung Galaxy S 4, for instance, can score 39 fps on the GLBenchmark test and hits the 60fps vsync limit on Nenamark, as do many other current high-end smartphones."
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 00:29
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My game isn't exactly graphically taxing. My 2 year old phone runs it at a constant 60 fps (capped) but my Ouya can't even display the start screen at 60.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 10:24
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I was thinking. Have anyone tried AppGameKit on a Tegra 3 device? I seem to recall mentions of speed problems on Tegra devices. I could be completely wrong on this.

I'll see how much time I have to run speed tests today.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 11:02 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 11:02
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Here's a simple but effective speed test.

Laptop: 30 FPS
Galaxy S2: 32 FPS
Ouya: 3 FPS

That's a huge difference between my 2 year old phone and a 1 year old hardware (Tegra 3). Only 10% in power when displaying colored sprites. As far as I can tell the Tegra 3 CPU is a faster version of what I got in my S2 but the GPUs are different. I am using 108.15 with the latest player on both phone and Ouya.



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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 11:33
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I think that when TGC did the early 3d tests, the Tegra devices performed well from far away, but if you got close enough to fill the entire screen with objects, the FPS dropped. It was a problem with fillrate I believe. That was 3d though and 2d might not be affected. (even though as far as I know 2d is 3d behind the scenes)
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 12:05
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I wonder how much that does combined with the Ouya's high resolution. I don't know why they've done it but the Ouya runs at 1080p. That's 5.4 times the resolution of my phone.

I ran the above code on my PC in 800x480. Running 1080p full screen gives me about half the FPS.

On Ouya:
All sprites off screen is 52 FPS
All sprites hidden is 57 FPS

I have no idea how fast the Ouya is with no sprites as it is capped to 60.

BTW, 1000 visible sprites on screen is 25 FPS. If you spread them out you get 27 FPS.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 12:24 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 12:26
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Have you tried setting a lower virtual resolution, or does AppGameKit still draw in 1080p?

You can also use the benchmarking commands to see where the bottleneck is
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 12:31
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Smaller sprites draws faster. Seems like 1/4 the size is 3 times as fast.

I am using the code below to fill the screen with 1000 sprites (double what I need to cover the screen), the same size as in my game. I get 50 FPS. Now increasing it to 4000 sprites (~3000 off screen) gives me 48 FPS. So, off screen sprites are not a problem.
Now doubling the amount of sprites on screen to 2000 almost halves the FPS to 27.

Turning the transparency off for these sprites is a huge boost. 4000 sprites on screen at 47 FPS! Gonna check the RTA code and see if I am using all sprites with transparency on, if so I can earn some FPS here.



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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 12:37 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 12:37
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I am already running at a virtual resolution of 200x120. Now if I do 4x the virtual resolution and 4x the sprite size, I get the exact same FPS.

Thanks for the tip on the benchmarking commands

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 15:30 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 15:31
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So, with using non transparent sprites as much as possible I think I can get RTA to run at 40-50 FPS. The game requires 40-60 transparent tiles on screen in levels.

A full screen transparent sprite eats 10+ FPS. I'll see what I can do with optimizations, but I might skip the cave light effect on Ouya. That uses one really large transparent sprite.

I don't know what else beyond graphics I can optimize for more speed. But I'll do some more testing. I am really glad I didn't try for parallax backgrounds, those would slow it down to a crawl.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 16:04
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Quote: " I am really glad I didn't try for parallax backgrounds, those would slow it down to a crawl."


Perhaps I should avoid those aswell. One thing you could try is making the background gradient thing a 1xheight image and then stretch it sideways. If the performanace hit is with drawing big images...
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 16:44
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Quote: "1xheight image and then stretch it sideways"

It is already stretched. I tried it non stretched but had the same FPS. Turning off transparency for the background got me about 10 FPS. Turning it off completely got me another 10 FPS. It's scary that a single sprite taking up the entire screen requires so much power.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 16:53
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That sounds like the same issue as the fillrate that TGC experienced
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 17:28
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Yeah, and I get the feeling that a lower resolution would have been great. It's not like it needs 1080p, 720p is more than enough.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 17:36
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Do you have a 720p screen that you could test how much better the performance is?
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 18:46
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Quote: "Do you have a 720p screen that you could test how much better the performance is?"

No, and I don't think that would make a difference. My guess is that Ouya would still output 1080p. I would hope that they can make a software update to support 720p as well. Then you can use your TV to scale that up.

According to Futuremark the Ouya gets way higher scores than my phone:
Ouya Galaxy S2

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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 15th Jul 2013 00:05
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From my testing, Ouya can only handle 6 full screen sprites with transparency turned off at 60FPS. With transparency on I get 55 FPS with only 2 full screen sprites.

BTW, how much power is spent clearing the backbuffer by AppGameKit every frame? I use full screen sprites for backgrounds so I don't need to clear the backbuffer (AFAIK). But I can't find any method of turning this off. It's part of the swap() command. BTW, using Render2DFront() and swap() instead of sync() doesn't make it run faster.

I wonder if there's anything TGC can do to get more power out of Ouya?

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fog
21
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Joined: 5th Oct 2003
Location: Newcastle, England
Posted: 15th Jul 2013 01:30
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Quote: "No, and I don't think that would make a difference. My guess is that Ouya would still output 1080p. I would hope that they can make a software update to support 720p as well. Then you can use your TV to scale that up."

Yeah from the OUYA docs it seems the res is always 1080p and then scaled to match your display.

Given the OUYA hardware isn't cutting edge it's not a huge surprise if it struggles to match an average mobile device with a much smaller res screen.

Quote: "All applications are provided with a 1080p virtual display for their output. This virtual display is then rendered to the screen in an appropriate manner. This may include downscaling the 1080p display to 720p where the screen does not support 1080p, or to 480p if a screen does not report it supports 720p or 1080p via an HDMI connection."

https://devs.ouya.tv/developers/docs/setup

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Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
22
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Joined: 16th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Jul 2013 17:00
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I was surprised to learn the Ouya tries to render at 1080p, even the XBox 360 doesn't do that. For AppGameKit version 2 we are adding a render to image command, so in theory you could do all your rendering at 720 (or lower) to an image and then put that image on a full screen sprite for the final 1080 render.
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 15th Jul 2013 17:57
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Paul:
That sounds great. I only need to render 200x120 so that should be really fast I guess?

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Zeerun
AGK Developer
19
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Joined: 28th Aug 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Jul 2013 19:32
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Quote: "So I'm working on a top down game for ouya which involves driving a vehicle. Currently I'm using this code to move and turn the vehicle with the first ouya joystick:

+ Code Snippet

This works for instantly rotating the vehicle and moving it forward, however I want it to recognize a press left on the joystick as slowly turn up, a press right on the joystick as slowly turn down, a press forward on the joystick as move the way you're facing, and a press backward on the joystick as move in the reverse direction. My question is, what is the best way to achieve this - I know I need to get the x and y of the joystick and set some bounds-like any of the 90 degrees left joystick press registering as a left press and turning up but I dont know how to go about doing this with the x and y components of the joystick. Has anyone ever done anything like this with virtual joysticks cause it would be the same here. thanks!

Also, Paul
"


baxslash helped me out loads with this, check out this thread http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=200261&b=41

First AppGameKit app out of the door: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=206698&b=48
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