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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK V2 Sneak Peek Demos

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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 13th Sep 2013 23:50 Edited at: 25th Nov 2013 17:40
Hi,

Sneak Peek Videos of AppGameKit V2.

Spine Support NEW!!!


Particles, sounds and shapes


Sprites with Shader & any resolution on desktops


Full Screen Shaders


Render to Image Video



Rick

Financial Director
TGC Team
fog
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 00:02
That looks excellent chaps.

I've no more excuses not to finish mono now....it's only been 7 years since I started

haliop
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 00:05
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 00:07
That looks cool

BatVink
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 00:49
Excellent, demos of AGK2, and fantastic functionality to too

How could this be overshadowed. Well you could be called fog and simply say...

Quote: "I've no more excuses not to finish mono now....it's only been 7 years since I started"


That's fantastic news on top of fantastic news

xCept
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 01:09
A much appreciated new feature! Sure wouldn't mind getting a hold of a beta in early Oct. with only this new feature to play around with as it is very useful for many projects.
easter bunny
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 02:28
looks great, I'm assuming that you can set it from a different camera than the default camera.....
Now I sorta wish I did back AppGameKit v2

Juande
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 14:51
Great!

It can be used with matrix object? And with semi-transparent object? My idea is to use it for water effect.

Do you think this command will be able to use it in Android?

Thanks!
MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 15:31
Another great AppGameKit thread to follow saw this via FB/KS/Email before here

MikeMax
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 21:26
very cool functionnality to create realtime shadows textures also

Thanks TGC
DVader
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Posted: 14th Sep 2013 21:45
This looks nice. Would be cool for a LOD effect possibly All sorts of uses really!

Matty H
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Posted: 15th Sep 2013 17:02 Edited at: 15th Sep 2013 17:06
This feature was pretty high up on my wish list, shadows should soon be possible, if they are not already.

As for LOD, this may not be in TGC's plans but I think you should consider the following, if it's possible for all devices.

Allow us to draw a single object to an image with transparency, also allow us to set the uv of the image we are drawing to, this way we can draw an object to a small section of an image.

I think these features would be enough for users to implement an efficient imposter system. You also need flexible camera commands but I think AppGameKit may already have what is needed.

It may not be possible, but if it is, imposter systems would allow much more detailed environments and only enhance the look of 3D games made with AGK.

EDIT:
This was not possible with DBPro/GDK when I tried, I think transparency was an issue. This is why I had to write Dark Imposters from scratch(DirectX).

wargasmic
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Posted: 16th Sep 2013 18:54 Edited at: 16th Sep 2013 18:56
This looks great.

What features are expected to be in the October beta BTW?

Have I completely missed the opportunity to back V2 to get it cheap and get access to the beta?
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 17th Sep 2013 00:19
Could we see an example on how to use this command to render to a small image and then draw that image to the screen? There were talk about using this command to get around the fillrate problem of Ouya.

I had the idea that this could be used to compensate for overscan on Ouya. Render to an image and then specify the size it will be drawn to the screen at.

Ched80
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 19:28
The shaders look niiiice, but are they only for 3D? I was under the impression 2D shaders would also be developed?

Paul Johnston
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 19:47
Anything you can render to the screen can be modified by full screen shaders, this includes sprites. Notice the print text in the edge detect shader also being modified. I just happen to be using a 3D demo in my testing.
xCept
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 19:58 Edited at: 20th Sep 2013 19:59
This is looking awesome!

QUESTION: Is there any estimate on when in October we will get the first V2 beta with shader/render to image support? I ask because the App Innovation competition is ongoing and I see great value in these new capabilities, but if it won't be released to backers until late October near the end of that competition I'll have to consider other platforms for one project I plan to work on.
Ched80
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 20:14
Ah, cheers for clearing that up Paul. Double thumbs up!

xCept, did you get through to round 2 too? What was your entry?

Paul Johnston
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 20:33
Quote: "I ask because the App Innovation competition is ongoing and I see great value in these new capabilities"


I can't say exactly when we will be releasing an alpha/beta but I wouldn't recommend using it for production projects as I'm making significant changes to the rendering pipeline that may introduce bugs that will take time to find and fix.
JimHawkins
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 20:57
Am I right, then, in assuming that there will NOT be a new V1 release? Because it seems we're going forward into unknown without fixing the previous known problems. I sincerely hope not, otherwise AppGameKit will remain in a perpetual beta stage.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 22:45
I still have a branch for version 108 so I can update it separately from version 2, but unless 108 has a major bug we want to focus our efforts on version 2.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 22:49
Have you been checking the Google Issue list lately?

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
MikeMax
AGK Academic Backer
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 23:13
FULL SCREEN SHADERS ! Finally !! I WANT IT NOW !!!!


lol

Excellent work Paul
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 04:11
Quote: "Have you been checking the Google Issue list lately?"


Not recently, I see a couple of new issues that have been nailed down and could be fixed but I'm trying to keep my focus on version 2 for the moment. Unless something major comes up beta 19 will be around for a while.
Santman
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Posted: 25th Sep 2013 17:36
Jim, AL

I just want to say I sympathise with you both, and all other users who want agk bugs fixed, but also very much with Paul. I'm not sure of the structure within agk, in terms of who's the boss, who has a boss etc, but I think now they are financially committed to doing v2 because of the kickstarter. Essentially, they have to get it underway or deadlines will come and go and backers could rightfully ask for their money back.

So, here's a thought for those massively better than myself: a long time ago dbpro was getting an overhaul of bug fixes from a talented member of the community (which incidentally never happened either), but perhaps if the agk team are willing, are th bugs something perhaps a community member or two could have a bash at fixing? I suppose it would be akin to making agk v1 partially open source in effect? At the end of the day, what will make you guys money is good quality, successful apps being made with it (I say unity's name EVERYWHERE these days, and I'll be honest I'm probably going to look at it once I finish my current game for anything future), and open source can't hurt that???

Perhaps I'm today wrong, but either way, for better or worse, I think tgc kind of HAVE to do v2 now.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 25th Sep 2013 17:57
I just want to make sure that reported (and verified) bugs are fixed in V2, at least.

Known bugs should have to be dealt with in V2.

I totally support their efforts being put into V2. I just don't want to see know bugs persist.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
Santman
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Posted: 25th Sep 2013 19:26
Oh I wasn't having a go at you or anythin,please dodon't take it that way. I completely agree about the bugs, but I took it for granted they'd be fixed in v2...youve worried me slightly now. Lol.
bjadams
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2013 20:20
known bugs should be eradicated in v2, now there is some extra funding to dedicate some manhours to that
xCept
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Posted: 4th Oct 2013 18:52 Edited at: 4th Oct 2013 18:52
The new video demoing sprite shaders and blend modes looks amazing and opens up so many more opportunities to create really unique and polished apps!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2/posts/618609?ref=email&show_token=1d9e0d623f773d56
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 4th Oct 2013 19:59
2 thumbs up from me for the latest update

The Zoq2
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Posted: 5th Oct 2013 11:33
Shadersupport for 2d is just what I need for my project, glad to see it implemented

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Ched80
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Posted: 28th Oct 2013 21:57
Just seen the last V2 kickstarter email about and particles.

It wasn't obvious to me if the ability to 'pan' a sound was being added? Can someone confirm either way?

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 28th Oct 2013 22:20
Quote: "It wasn't obvious to me if the ability to 'pan' a sound was being added? Can someone confirm either way?"

Nope, no such commands added. But more direct control over individual instances has been added.

Arbrakan
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Posted: 29th Oct 2013 15:35 Edited at: 29th Oct 2013 15:36
I was waiting for the pan command too..

but great news, can't wait to play with all this news stuff.

Paul Johnston
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Posted: 29th Oct 2013 15:39
I'll see if I can do sound panning
Arbrakan
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Posted: 29th Oct 2013 15:53
Thanks Paul !

Sph!nx
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2013 21:12
This is awesome, can't wait for the first release. Still, have to dive in the differences... DBP junkie here, but AppGameKit is new for me.

Regards Sph!nx
www.mental-image.net
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 01:55
hey sph!nx...dbp junkie here too. but you may have known that.

something that agk has done for me while learning it is that it has forced me to use functions. (And I now love using them)

I thank TGC for not adding in gosubs...n such as its a very messy way to code and I have learned the value of using multiple code files as well.

If I was to re-write any of my old dbp stuff id probably have an easier time using functions and have it way more organized then before.

My last qmidi studio was with gosubs and all found as 1 code file.
(it sucks trying to make updates to it in that state)


AGK is my favorite programming app now!

Sph!nx
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 15:37
Hey SMD! Good to see you're still around mate!

I always work with functions (and now coroutines). Been avoiding
goto's since the beginning and only use them as loading 'subroutines' for when there is no other way. I don't think I will have problems getting used to AppGameKit, but I do need to do some searches on stuff like "tiers".

I hope AppGameKit will evolve into something like DBP (with all the wonderful support for third party dll's) and stuff.

Regards Sph!nx
www.mental-image.net
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 15:54
Quote: "I hope AppGameKit will evolve into something like DBP (with all the wonderful support for third party dll's) and stuff."

I actually think AppGameKit has surpassed DBP (which I have worked with) in at least one very important way. It actually is usable on multiple platforms. Whereas DBP is only usable in Windows.

And it gives you the option to work in a flavor of Basic (Tier 1) or in C++ (Tier 2). It even 'plays nice' in the Objective C arena.

In Tier 2, you can use just about any external SDK you want. If you can figure out how to tie it in with AGK. AppGameKit handles all of the display and user interface stuff. It would be nice if there were some AppGameKit hooks that could be used to connect things in other SDKs.

I suspect adding the ability to incorporate external DLLs is not likely to happen. That is something that only works in Windows and I think the goal is to try to avoid platform specific stuff as much as possible. I know there are a bunch of platform specific commands. But many of them have generic versions as well.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
Sph!nx
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 16:44
Thanks Ancient Lady,

Is Tier 1 and 2 both possible in one code? I mean, would it be possible to write code in Basic and then mix it with c++... I know basic pretty well and that would be a great way of learning c++ gradually, without completely starting from scratch.

Definitely looking forward for the first release!

Regards Sph!nx
www.mental-image.net
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 17:04
Sorry, you cannot mix Tier 1 and Tier 2 for the AppGameKit stuff.

Tier 1 works as an interpreter of the byte code compiled in the AppGameKit IDE and takes over total control of everything. There really isn't a way to step outside of that from within the compiled byte code.

At least that is my understanding of it. As always, not being one of the people actually involved with the creation of the tool, I could be wrong.

AGK is currently available, no need to wait. The v10819 'beta' release is relatively stable and people have been publishing in iOS and Android with it. And, at $60 USD, it is relatively inexpensive.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
Sph!nx
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 18:55
Thanks for the info, Ancient Lady, much appreciated.

I trust there is enough documentation for me to dive into c++ by the time I get to it. Always felt C++ daunting to begin with but with AppGameKit as a base I figure it will be much easier for me.

I've backed V2 and I'm also working with DBP a lot, so I think I best wait for V2.

Regards Sph!nx
www.mental-image.net
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 19:14
All of the same commands used in Tier 1 are available in Tier 2 (and there are a few commands in Tier 2 that don't appear in Tier 1, at least one that I know of and use, anyway).

The online help pages will show the C++ version for any command. Just click on the 'C++' button in the upper right of the help page and it will show the C++ version.

C++ is case sensitive. So, if you start by testing something in Tier 1 and then want to convert it, you would do well to use the correct case for the command name. Then you can do some copy/paste/edit to convert from Tier 1 to Tier 2.

Tier 1 is pretty good for fast prototyping, since it all flows procedurally. It allows you to call Sync() anywhere to update user or device inputs (like touches, keyboard, tilts, http processing, etc.).

But in Tier 2, while calling agk::Sync(); will always update the display, the user/device inputs are only updated once per app::Loop() iteration and you must call agk::Sync() at least once in there (usually as the last command).

Because of this restriction, any time that you want to do something until something else happens (like the user clicks on something), you probably need to use a state machine like setup. I have a very complete tutorial on that that I just haven't had the time to break up into the needed files. The single file for it is just too long for the help system.

I think I did post some simple examples of how to do it elsewhere in this forum.

That is probably the only major difference between using Tier 1 and Tier 2.

One of the great benefits of Tier 2 is that you can use all the standard library classes like std::string (for string handling) and std::list (for doing lists). And you can use object oriented programming, which can be very useful.

Another very nice feature in C++ is being able to use the MS Visual Studio debugger to help find where issues show up. AppGameKit V2 is supposed to have a debugger for Tier 1. But it is not here, yet.

My current WIP, between the actual app and the level editor, uses 160 files (about 80 .cpp/.h pairs).

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
Sph!nx
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 20:16
Great, I already use a single sync call in DBP so that's nothing new to get used to and I never deviate from lower/upper cases in my code, so that should be no problem.

So, If I understand right, it's basically writing different variations of the same commands and I'm guessing some syntax and function differences, correct?

Instead of libraries AppGameKit Tier 2 uses 'SDK's. I can compare them to dll libraries like DBP uses, but the code is not kept in dll, but compiled with your program, correct?

Thanks for answering all my n00b questions, much appreciated!

Regards Sph!nx
www.mental-image.net
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 20:42
The same exact commands are used, with this difference:
1. add 'agk::' at the start of the command
2. add ';' after the closing parenthesis (basic "end of code line" indicator in C++)

And, as in all C++ coding, you really want to use the correct variable/constant value type in command calls. Tier 1 lets you get away with passing integer values to commands that expect floating point. It quietly fixes it for you. When you compile in VS, it will complain every time you don't use the correct type. It will still mostly work, you will mostly just get warnings. But it is not impossible that if you do too much of that, the behavior won't be what you expect.

And I am always happy to help anyone, new or not, if I have the time.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
Alien Menace
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Posted: 28th Nov 2013 19:08 Edited at: 28th Nov 2013 19:09
Not to go off-topic here but Rick, these demos are sweet! Can't wait to start playing around with this stuff!

Apps published: 4
Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Dec 2013 10:00 Edited at: 28th Dec 2013 12:13
Ah, I remember when I first went from DBPro to C++! All those years ago....well, only about 2, but it feels like much longer

The biggest difference between DBPro and C++ is that C++ is far, far stricter. If you want to use a variable in DBPro, you can just start using it. In C++ you have to declare it first, which is basically saying, "Ok computer, I want to you to find a bit of empty memory and reserve it for my variable". DBPro technically does the same thing, but it's done automatically and you don't have to know what's going on. Like this:

DBPro



C++



You'll probably notice several differences between the two there, most likely that strings are somewhat more complicated. I've gotta finish this post now, but I'll just say that this tutorial is a great beginner's tutorial and is also brilliant as a reference

Clonkex

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Posted: 28th Dec 2013 10:47
Don't you mean "int life = 42"

I also made the switch from AppGameKit T1 to T2 about 1.5 years ago and im glad I did. Even though it might be annoying having to declare everything at first, having the compiler tell you when you misspelled a variable and it not assuming that variable is 0 is so helpful.

My main issue with C++ when I started was how easy it is to mess something up which leads to a crash, memory leak or a variable getting the wrong value. It's hard at first but once you learn it, you have so much more potential to do cool things with it.



Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Clonkex
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Posted: 29th Dec 2013 04:06
Quote: "Don't you mean "int life = 42""


Indeed I did, thanks

I was kinda rushing it because Dad and my brother were waiting for me to come and watch Elysium (which was a really good movie)

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