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Program Announcements / NuclearGlory Collision System --- v2.01 has arrived!

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 4th Jan 2004 09:25
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Most vehicles are relatively rectangular shaped. So, the developer makes 4 sphere objects and places them at each corner of the vehicle. Then, as the vehicle moves, the spheres are kept locked to the corners. After collision is run via RunCollisionPRO() they could do a series of things (depending on what they were trying to accomplish).

You could re-align the vehicle to the new positions of the spheres after they have been updated for collision. The spheres also act as good vehicle tires. Because they give you your contact points with the road so you could do all sorts of cool car physics.

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Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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BatVink
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Posted: 5th Jan 2004 01:38
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aaah...sweet! Saves you working out the angle of the car for hills and the like.

Whoever took my brain...a jokes a joke, but can I have it back now?

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 5th Jan 2004 01:44 Edited at: 5th Jan 2004 01:45
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lol. Yep. You should just have to work out the angles to align the vehicle to the spheres and you're mostly set to go

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CPU
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Posted: 5th Jan 2004 04:19
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ok more questions - i was looking through the include functions for the demo and i was wondering if there was a way to set gravity to act diferently on different objects, example being what if i wanted to do loop the loops i wouldn't want ALL the cars to start flying off the track if i gave my car a negitive gravity to go around the loop, also you said awhile back that there was a "manual" that maped out what every function in the dll did, does this just map out the functions or the dll calls or both? I'm not completely sure i want to get the dll if it makes everything TO automatic, that's why i got darkbasic insted of the 3d gamemaker. well thanks for your help so far.

Cheers,
CPU

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 5th Jan 2004 05:06
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Greetings,

The manual (on our website under the "Tutorials" section) only describes the functions in the include file. (not the ones in the DLL itself)

Much of the automation we did was just a courtesy for users who wanted ease of use.

Some automatic things (gravity, response methods, etc.) could be done just as well using the feedback system in the DLL. It provides a wealth of information about collisions, so if it's not automatic, it's almost always possible that it can be done using the feedback system instead.

So, we're trying to get the best of both worlds.

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Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 7th Jan 2004 01:17 Edited at: 7th Jan 2004 01:19
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I've used the freeware version of the Nuclearglory DLL before the highly upgraded, new and priced version came out. I must say, it was beautiful. The speed was staggering on a compex level, and my character actually reacted to every piece of geometry, something I didn't think was possible outside of BSP collision.

The DLL is about 100-300 frames per second faster on my system than DBP BSP and sliding collision.

Plus it's developed by a friendly bunch of blokes.

And no matter how fast I tried to move, I couldn't run outside of the level via not checking collision with a wall because of too great a movement. I was amazed.

When I get back to using DBP, this is a must. It's pretty much a must for anyone using .3DS or .X objects, you wont find a better substitute anywhere.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 7th Jan 2004 08:30
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Hey, thanks for the post

Do you mind if we use that for a quote on the website? It's too good of a post to not ask lol.

All the best

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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Jan 2004 12:36
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You can have a quote from me, I'm highly impressed by the tool and your service...

Quote: "Bought at midnight, downloaded next morning, a working technical demo of the basics before lunch. Fantastic! As someone with a good programming background, but only 6 months in the world of 3D, I estimate this will save me at least 20 hours on my current car simulation project

Steve Vink
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 7th Jan 2004 14:03
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Sweet, thanks a lot

Glad it's helping you out.

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 7th Jan 2004 18:59
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by all means.
Include the website in my sig if you would. I'd never pass up free advertising.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 7th Jan 2004 23:01
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Thanks a lot to both of you.

@QuothTheRaven
Yep, we'll include your web link. Is there a name you'd like displayed next to the testimonial?

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 10th Jan 2004 02:15
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Andrew Ray

I've been playing around with the demo, and when collision is running with one of my levels I cap out at about 35 FPS, but when collision is off I get around 300 FPS, it used to be very differnet with the non-commercial demo, any ideas?

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 10th Jan 2004 08:40
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Greetings,

Make sure the test environment is the same as you used in the non-commercial version. You might be doing something different and maxing it out.

To get the best performance it's best to break a large level down into chunks and load them up separately. Then the DLL can completely disregard the chunks out of range.

You can also use the "DeActiveObjPRO()" on objects out of range to drop them from the collision list, and that will give a performance boost.

The collision code has been tightened quite a bit over the non-commercial version, so it "should" be considerably faster.

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 11th Jan 2004 01:46 Edited at: 11th Jan 2004 02:33
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Ah, I tried it with a different level, and I get a cool 300 fps. It's like the collision system isn't even running, it's so smooth.

I've been playing with it some more, and it runs very respectably with level chunks of about 7000 polygons or less. I had a level that was upwards of 10k, which was causing the slowdown. That was a level I made before I had any idea how to model. So far, so good!

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CPU
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 00:43
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@NucularGlory - do you think you could also make a list of functions that JUST use the dll calls and some comments about what each one does? I'de like to have a list like that so it would be easer to make my own functions that do what i want etc... but i will say that i'm probably going to get the full version and I know it helps collision like nothing else. thanks for your input so far.

cheers,
CPU

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 01:11
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@QuothTheRaven - Good to hear it

@CPU
The functions in the include file are very parallel to the direct DLL calls. The big purpose behind the include file is that it allows us to change stuff as we update the system without effecting the front end code. If we did it as a normal direct plugin we lose that benefit and it makes updating a lot harder.

Maybe the only place of real interest would be in the RunCollisionPRO() function. If you look at that function in the include file, you'll find that it resets the pointer for the "active stack".

The "active stack" is a list of currently active objects being tested for collision - When you call DeActiveObjPRO() for an object it removes the object from this stack, hence making the RunCollisionPRO() function operate faster with the more objects you de-activate.

Next, it runs through all of the objects in this "active stack" and passes all of their positions to the collision system. (This allows the system to determine where an object moved to)

After all the objects' positions are updated, then it calls the DLL function to update collision for all active objects.

Next, it resets the "active stack" pointer again.

Then it runs through and fetches the 'current' (as they are in DLL memory) positions of all active objects and positions them using the DBPro function 'position object'.

This effectively makes collision work between DLL memory and DBPro memory.

Currently, I don't have a real big demand for documenting all of the direct DLL functions, so it's not on the task list. But, if you have any specific questions regarding direct DLL calls I'd be glad to help explain them to you

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Slayer
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 01:49
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Hi I wont to buy this, but a few things to ask.

1) can you make it to were you could add collision to
x and z cords on your own.

2) sence this is a dll its going to be faster then your own collision
systom in darkbasic pro.

3) can you pick a objects limb like a leag arm ect...

I dont know how to spell
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 02:00 Edited at: 13th Jan 2004 02:01
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Quote: "1) can you make it to were you could add collision to x and z cords on your own."


The collision system doesn't do collision on a 'per coordinate' basis, so no.

Quote: "2) sence this is a dll its going to be faster then your own collision systom in darkbasic pro."


I assume your asking about the speed of the DLL compared to custom-coded collision routines in DBPro? This varies based precision and a set of other factors. We've attempted to get the best of both speed and precision.

Quote: "3) can you pick a objects limb like a leag arm ect..."

No. The DLL doesn't have direct memory access to DB object data. So, attempting to track limbs would be both painstaking and buggy. This may change with the DBPro U6 release.

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Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 02:03 Edited at: 13th Jan 2004 02:04
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[Edit] beaten

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Slayer
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 02:13
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one more thing.

what about bullits. When the bullit hits you could put a texture there, but can you put a object there. so you could put something
like smoke were the bullit hits?

I dont know how to spell
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 02:50
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@BatVink - Haha, I really do appreciate your help

@Slayer -
Yes, the feedback commands give you the world contact points of the hit. So you can put textures, smoke, shrapnel, and whatever else you want there.

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Slayer
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 03:59
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Thats very good. The things is thow what if I just wont bullits and
no collision. I dont wont to do extra processing. Is there a way to
do just one thing?

I dont wont to be all asking to much but It would be good to know these things.

Thanks

I dont know how to spell
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 09:38
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Quote: "The things is thow what if I just wont bullits and
no collision"


Quote: "The "active stack" is a list of currently active objects being tested for collision - When you call DeActiveObjPRO() for an object it removes the object from this stack, hence making the RunCollisionPRO() function operate faster with the more objects you de-activate.
"


Or setting the response to RESP_NONE will allow collision detection without repositioning the objects. But RESP_StICK but be better for bullets, then you can use it's position to place your explosion/splat/cartoon-styly KAPOW

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 11:06 Edited at: 13th Jan 2004 11:06
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Quote: "Is there a way to do just one thing? "


Yes, the system is designed to give you a lot of control. When using the ray-cast command you can test specific objects or groups of objects of the same type (just test against enemies for instance).

And, with the collision definitions, you still get the high level of control with being able to define which objects should collide and how.

Have you tried the trial version? It is identical to the commercial version only with the "time-out" feature, so you can fully test it out for yourself. Just look near the bottom of our website.

Website link below

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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Jan 2004 13:35
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Quote: "When using the ray-cast command you can test specific objects or groups of objects of the same type (just test against enemies for instance)."


Thinks out loud...
Sounds good. You could test against enemies every loop, but for less critical objects, such as walls, you could test a different group every n cycles. So for example, you could put your non-critical collisions into 5 groups, and reduce the collision checking timeframe by a factor of 5. Or you could put your map zones into different groups and check only the nearest zones.

Must find the time to check the demos that came with it!

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CPU
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Posted: 15th Jan 2004 22:29 Edited at: 15th Jan 2004 22:31
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Nucularglory - How would you suggest setting up a collision routine with your dll that would allow me to do things like loop the loops and things like that for multiple players and AI's?

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 15th Jan 2004 22:46
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Greetings,

Most of that gets into proper physics calculations and such (so your cars have force in the proper direction to prevent falling off the track). The collision is really just responsible to keep you from going through things, lol.

For cars and loop-da-loops, I would say to put a collision sphere at each tire of the car. Sets all of the tires of all the cars to collide with each other (so the cars will collide) and set the tires of the cars to collide with the track as well.

With long vehicle the "sphere for each tire" thing wouldn't work, as objects would pass through the body of your vehicle. (in between the tires)

Once we get all dynamic mesh support in you could also set the tires to collide with the body's of other cars (although this could be slower then tire-2-tire testing but more accurate).

Hope that helps.

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Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 01:03
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I'm still trying to get my head around the collision spheres on the tyres "thing".

Would you glue them? create them as limbs? Is there any special way to ensure they don't go off in different directions?

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 01:26
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If you were to create DB sphere primitives, glue them to the corners of the car, and define them with a spherical collision shape (in the collision system), then it should work.

You just have to remember to keep the frame of the vehicle locked to these spheres after collision occurs. This may require you to re-adjust the spheres so they don't get knocked out of position too.

Just gotta play with it some

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CPU
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 22:28
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ok i was looking through the demo functions and i couldn't seem to find where you set the gravity, is there currently a way to set gravity(like to 0 so i could implement my own gravity ) or is that somting comming?

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 16th Jan 2004 23:15
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The default object gravity is set to 0. You can by all means use your own gravity and the DLL will prevent you from going through objects.

A gravity command was added just as a "helper" function, not a requirement. In fact, the built-in gravity just moves the object downward at a constant rate, and then collision is handled automatically just as it would if you used your own gravity.

Try looking in our docs here:
http://www.nuclearglory.com/tutorials/NGColl/201/DBPro/

The command is: SetObjGravityPRO()

Again, it's just a helper function. I actually tried to remove the command (as it falls into physics), but then I received a bunch of "hey! where's the gravity!?" emails... so, it was put back in, lol.

You can really move your objects any way you want to. A downward force for gravity just made sense for FPS style games.

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Mnemonix
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Hi Nuclear glory, i have been experimenting with the .dll and it is most promising. I was wondering if i have one object hit another. Can i make the second object move away from the first?. Im a noob btw...

Watch this space if you like getting bored...
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?gf=irc <<Visit the chat!.;
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Jan 2004 23:09 Edited at: 19th Jan 2004 23:10
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Yes, you could make the other object move, but it would have to be done in your own DB code once collision is detected. Take a look at the DLL feedback commands in the reference manual:

http://www.nuclearglory.com/tutorials/NGColl/201/DBPro/

Look at the command [/b]CountCollisionsPRO()[/b] and under. They allow you to retrieve data about collisions once they occur. Then, you can use that feedback to custom code your own object movement once things collide.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 21:27
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Woo, I ordered and then 5 seconds later i get the download link.

Excellent product
Excellent customer service
Excellent delivery .

I hope i can use it to its full potential. WD NuclearGlory

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 22:04
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Thank you.

Would you be kind enough to let me use your post above as a testimonial on our website? I would be much obliged. Also, do you have a name and/or website you would like displayed next to it?

All the best.

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Mnemonix
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Thank you, you are welcome to display my testimonial. You can call me Andrew Thompson and my website is http://www.logicstudios.net.

Btw, if you ever get chance, drop into the irc chat sometime so me and some of the pros can get a chance to quiz you about the dll.

Watch this space if you like getting bored...
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 21st Jan 2004 16:38
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Thanks. I'm not sure that I'll be stopping by, I'm quite busy lately

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Mnemonix
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, no worries

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spooky
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2004 15:47
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Just purchased! Within seconds I had confirmation email. Few more seconds later and had everything downloaded. Now to rewrite my game using it...

Boo!
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QuothTheRaven
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Hey...I'm working on crouching, and I'm having some problems. When you uncrouch, it sets your radius back to your full height, but I have no idea how to stop you from uncrouching if there's something above your head...any ideas?

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 04:52
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@spooky
Great to hear it

@QuothTheRaven
You could use the ray cast command and shoot a ray upwards from the crouch position. If there's an obstacle within a certain distance then keep the player crouched.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 07:48
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Quote: "The collision system doesn't do collision on a 'per coordinate' basis, so no."


That's just not true, at least, directly, here's my code in dealing with this



now you can do cool stuff like this:


The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Software Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dbsgroup/
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 16:06
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lol. Yes, the collision system works on all 3 axis.

The statement:
Quote: "The collision system doesn't do collision on a 'per coordinate' basis"


meant that (internally) it doesn't work on one axis at a time to get the result for all 3 axis. It runs one set of math calculations and comes up with all 3 results in a single pass.

The person who asked the question was asking if a particular axis could be shut off in the DLL to only work certain axis. The answer was "no" because it gets all 3 results at once and turning off any axis (given numerous situations) would break the collision.

However, as you demonstrated, you could force it to work across only certain axis. Although, this would more than likely create unwanted results.

Hope that clears it up.

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bitJericho
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oh i see, i misread

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Software Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dbsgroup/
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Marthik
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i am just wondering how your bullet collision works, if it just creates a line from the player to target, or can an accrecy thing be made so less accuret guns draw a less striaght/direct line or what ever.
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 02:14 Edited at: 29th Jan 2004 02:14
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The laser-sight example in the demo allows you to define the start and end points of a 3D line. Then it tells you the precise intersect data for that line with the closest object it hits.

You can cast the ray (3D line) in any direction and it will give you your precise intersect data. You cannot make the ray anything but straight.

For gun accuracy, you could change the end point position of the ray based on the accuracy error of the gun. That would probably be the best way to get the effect you're after.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 06:02
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NG:
I started testing out your dll today and so far I'm impressed. I'm working on a tactical action shooter and I had loads of problems with BSPs so I was directed to your site. I will continue the testing and I will also see what U6 brings, maybe they both combined is the best solution. I may have to part with $15 soon

Damn I'm impressed with that laser sight angled to follow the mesh as well as the moving platform Not even all of today's game engines allow objects to stand on top of moving objects.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 07:03
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Thanks for the comments. I hope you find it to be useful.

Yes, the U6 release should be pretty cool. It's suppose to bring some functionality that will allow us to integrate the DLL tighter with DBPro. So it will increase speed and performance for our plugin (after we update the plugin for U6).

To get the best performance from the DLL for large/complex worlds, it's best to break the world down into chunks and load the chunks up separately. Then the DLL will internally skip the chunks out of range and won't have to run through the triangles, etc...

To get the highest performance level use the DeActivateObjPro() command to shut off collision for objects that don't need to be tested (IE: Objects out of range)

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 07:15
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NG:
Sounds good =) I have heard of some other features that may come in handy.

I'm currently testing out a tile based system to make maps. I've been having varying speed results due to amount of objects/polys and maybe a bug in DBP, so I'm testing out what is a good balance.

So the DeActivateObjPro() and ActivateObjPro() commands are fast enough to earn speed by using them? Maybe I'll code something to utilize them. It's a bit dificult when the game features longer distances so I can't just turn them off on distance. And checking objects to turn on and off would require some power as well.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 29th Jan 2004 08:04 Edited at: 29th Jan 2004 08:07
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Quote: "So the DeActivateObjPro() and ActivateObjPro() commands are fast enough to earn speed by using them? "


Definitely. They are very fast and don't require internal resorting or anything. So... no matter the amount of objects in the system the commands will execute at the same speed.

And... when an object is deactivated, it removes it from the collision list and increases the collision speed in all areas.

For something like tile based games it would probably be best to deactivate tiles that are a good bit out of range and let the system deal with the other tiles automatically. (it'll skip any active tiles that are out of range of the object movement)

You're doing it the right way. Just test it out and find what works best.

All the best on your project.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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