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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Business and Marketing your APPS

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SpecTre
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 01:46
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Quote: "I want to do a Kickstarter campaign too, but having to do that video showing what you look like is what has held me back.
The video would have to be rated R for the Horror factor. "


Lol that made me laugh. Well you won't be seeing me, the video clip is a short one of the app in action haha.

You have to look at others examples and you wont believe how rubbish some are!

I have nearly finished perfecting it to hit the confirm button but I am going for quite a modest fee compared to the rest. I have put £1000 in 40 days. You have to account also for their fee and vat if it works!
I don't care if it doesn't though because at least I know I have tried and I am still going hell for leather with the twitter campaign with nearly a thousand followers lol.

I am looking at equipment to release on the App Store, eg a Mac, money to get me through finishing the app and updating the website and other nominal fees to release on every app store, eg Google, Amazon and App Store. Hopefully enough for at least the first year with Apple.
Pledges start at £1 then £2, £5, £10, £50, £100, £500 and £1000 and I have thought about things like getting the app free, digital wallpapers, child's name in the credits, company logos and also child's artwork as a painting to color.
Anyway its nearly ready and will be pressing the confirm button soon so watch this space for failure lol.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 02:44 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2015 02:52
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Quote: "Lol that made me laugh. Well you won't be seeing me, the video clip is a short one of the app in action haha."

It used to be a requirement at Kickstarter.
Your video had to show YOU in person.
You sure it is not required now?
You may get a rejection if so.

Quote: "Pledges start at £1 then £2, £5, £10, £50, £100, £500 and £1000 and I have thought about things like getting the app free, digital wallpapers, child's name in the credits, company logos and also child's artwork as a painting to color."

My original Kickstarter was for a movie, so I have to re-do everything.
Thinking of something...
$3 Game (First 500 Early Birds)
$5 Game (Also limited to 500)
$10 Game + One bonus character (limit 100)
$25 Game + Three bonus Characters (limit 100)
$50 Game + Seven bonus Characters (limit 100)

... but that is just off the top of my head, so it may change.
The idea is to limit the pledges as to create an urgency to pledge.
The above example maxes out at $12,500 with the two lowest priced pledges totaling the goal of $4,000.

I might even add a stupid pledge amount like...
$5,000 Personalized game for redistribution.
In other words, I change the game title, splash screens, and GUI to their supplied images for a custom built APK so they have a version of the game for them to sell as their own for 'unlimited profit potential'. (then they have the marketing headache)


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 03:04
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Well looking at the game video clips it doesn't show any developer in them so you are safe

I might have a mess with the pledge amounts to fine tune but still quite happy with it.
I also see it as a win / win situation if it works or not because you can put links to a lite version of an app already on say Google Store to show how serious you are and that also gets the app about even if don't get the total.

All good advertising for free because you only pay fees out of the total if it works

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 14:04
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Quote: "Well looking at the game video clips it doesn't show any developer in them so you are safe"

It was a requirement as it used to say "you must...", but now it looks as if it is only a suggestion.

Here is what they say now... (first thing on the "Creator Handbook; Your Story" list)

"Use your video and description to do the following:
Introduce yourself and any teammates involved with your project."

Not sure how I can introduce myself in a video other than getting in front of the camera though.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 15:16
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Will let you know when I do this one but nearly all the videos don't show the dev from what I have seen and it's just a general clip about the app. When I was filling out the form you don't have to actually submit a video but they advise it.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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3d point in space
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 19:42 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2015 19:46
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My sister thought of a good idea that will work. Go to stores where they sell androids and put your game on a demo android at a store. Its not illigal eather because they think your a customer.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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JRNTexas
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 21:24 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2015 22:12
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Idea:

I see a lot of requests for App developers, i.e. game developers on the web and on sites like Craig's List. A lot of people have ideas for games but no development skills.

Here, at TGC, AGK2 we have quite a few people with exceptional game development skills (I'm amazed at the quality of AppGameKit games from the developers here).

What if TGC were to certify AGK2 developers much like Microsoft and many other companies certify developers, admins, etc. And maybe certify "game graphic designers" as well. I've seem some great graphics from this group also.

Developers could be certified in other TGC products like GameGuru also.

Then advertised on various boards, web sites that there are "certified" game developers available?

TGC could charge a nominal amount to be tested for certification that would cover the cost of developing the certification and a few extra dollars (US) for advertising and promotion.

The individuals that were certified could also advertise themselves as an "AGK2 Certified Mobile Game Developer".

And maybe even a "Certified AGK2 Mobile Game Development Instructor".

TGC could even come up with a logo for certified developers to use (I'd be happy to work on the logo and even the certification process).

It would definitely help TGC's efforts to sell more product as other developers would be drawn to tools that have certification and that promote certified developers.

And it would help the TGC development community and grow it!

AND, I think AGK2 certification on Steam would go over big time.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 23:35 Edited at: 24th Mar 2015 00:02
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Quote: "I see a lot of requests for App developers, i.e. game developers on the web and on sites like Craig's List. A lot of people have ideas for games but no development skills."

I had thought about that after seeing a few of those ads, but from my experience people lacking technical knowledge often have ideas that exceed the limitations of the development environment.
After hearing "we can't do that" a few times, they want to dismiss you as being a qualified developer.
It is frustrating to be considered a failure because of unrealistic expectations, so this can be depressing as well as a headache.

As far as AppGameKit certification goes...
The AGK Developer badge you get here in the forums for releasing an app in one of the major app stores is all I need.
I think the apps you have developed are your credentials, as a published app will probably have more impact on the client than a third party certification.
This is especially true if they are unfamiliar with the people giving the certification, meaning they know who Microsoft and Google are, but they may have never heard of TGC before.
That is why I need to get more of my games up on the Google Play Store, so people can get a better idea of what I can do with AGK.

xGEKKOx is an example of this as he has made over 100 apps, and that landed him a financial partner to found his company according to his LEVEL UP thread.
The word in the grapevine is that he is doing rather well financially with his app sales.
I respect xGEKKOx' s success, and I think we can emulate this success if we follow his advice.
With that said, I need to get back to work on a game.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 00:28
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Hey I have got to the part where I am waiting for bank account details to be verified in kickstarter and you can save your project as you go along.
It has given me this draft link for friends feedback if anyone wants to have a look and see what they think?

Cheers

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1516183818/2030528076?token=7b07b78f

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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3d point in space
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 00:39 Edited at: 24th Mar 2015 00:40
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Quote: "I see a lot of requests for App developers, i.e. game developers on the web and on sites like Craig's List. A lot of people have ideas for games but no development skills."


Well you sometimes got to go to graduate school to get recognized. I am getting my second masters degree in computer science. There are many people here that live separate lives besides making games. Every one that has put input in this discussion is a very good programmer I believe, but that said the market is saturated with apps on the app store. So many people here have to go and get certified with a masters degree of some sorts, or find luck building apps.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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Funnell7
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 11:10
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Quote: "It has given me this draft link for friends feedback if anyone wants to have a look and see what they think?"


Looks good spectrepaul, good luck... I do have a few logistical questions if I may... How do you plan on distributing the 'free' copies for your backers? I assume you will send them the .apk for Android, and a Promo Code for iOS?

Also, for your £10+ backers, you are allowing them to install the app on multiple devices, if I am not mistaken, any purchase from Android/iOS allows you to install it on all your devices anyway. The purchase is at user level, not device level...

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SpecTre
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 13:09
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Quote: "Looks good spectrepaul, good luck"


Thanks for that, just thought it might be worth a shot.

Quote: "I assume you will send them the .apk for Android, and a Promo Code for iOS?"


That's what I was thinking. Every pledger will have an email and it seems you get a report at the end to inform everyone.
The otherside of it though is if I send the .apk they can send it to however they want but can't think of another way to do it.

Quote: "any purchase from Android/iOS allows you to install it on all your devices anyway."


Yes I think you can install on the users devices if they are all Android for example but I was thinking more so they could have it on a mix of devices like Ipad, Kindle Fire and Android so they would get all formats.
Young kids normally get users older devices incase they get broken which they could have the app on however if they are out and about they could have the app on their phone too for the kids to play even if it is IOS or Android.

I still might need to fine tune the pledges though

Thanks for advice.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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JRNTexas
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 19:40 Edited at: 24th Mar 2015 19:48
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On certification.

Quote: "from my experience people lacking technical knowledge often have ideas that exceed the limitations of the development environment."


I have run into this situation also, but it does not define the group. I don't disagree with much of what you have to say, however, I think that certification would benefit everyone, The TGC company, and us, the users of their product.

Here is what I have found, in general;

Yes, there are already too many games and apps in all of the app stores. New apps are released every day that succeed despite the overwhelming odds. Some non-technical people have ideas for games or apps that have the potential to be one of those success stories. If you want to be a freelance mobile game developer, you need to sort through the chaff.

As a general rule, I think most of the developers in the AppGameKit community are hobbyists.

Being a hobbyist is not an indication that someone is less professional.

Some of the best furniture I've ever seen was built by a "hobbyist".

It seems to me, that there is a whole other crowd of developers out there, who are developing games and apps as freelance mobile game developers. I don't believe that this group is well represented in the AppGameKit community. They might be, if, they understood the power of AppGameKit to develop games rapidly.

It's just my personal opinion, but I think a certification system would bring in more of these developers and see the tool used by freelancers to create apps and games.

This, in turn, would give us (you & me) a larger community to draw from and give greater financial support for the AppGameKit team. Making the product even better for hobbyists. And ensuring the long-term viability of TGC and AGK.

- As a side note, I've been using TGC tools since close to the beginning of the company. I still have one of the original Dark Basic CDs. I started using DB to rapidly create a 3D flight testing program for a major US computer firm.

I think that Lee & crew have done a great job by making great decisions about the direction of their products. I love the AGK2 development environment and the job that has been done with that product.
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SpecTre
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 20:37
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@Funnell7, I have changed the rewards/pledges now which I think explain better and are priced more evenly and realistically to try and obtain the total so just waiting for confirmation on account now and button will be pressed

@JRNTexas, there are some interesting concepts there. Regarding those that can't code and have good ideas, you are very true with that wording. You only have to look at Game Designers on AAA titles that only work on concept, design and story but don't code.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 22:41
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Quote: "It has given me this draft link for friends feedback if anyone wants to have a look and see what they think?"

Okay friend.

2) Not sure about getting nothing for 2 when I can get the game for 4, so maybe this could be a limited early bird , even for 3 maybe.

4) Cool, getting the game for 4 sounds good.

5) Not sure about this one. Seems like this could be the 4 reward. I would scratch this one and add the pinups to 4, or scratch 4 and leave this.

10) As already mentioned, this reward isn't hitting on much. I would make the 50 pledge for credits at this 10 level or maybe 15.

50) Make this the same reward as 100 having the user images. 100 seems too pricey for that and this 50 at a 30 limit would be the same as scratching the 100 level.

100) scratch and move user image reward to 50 and increase 50's limit to avoid revenue loss.

Good luck with the 500 and 1000 pledge levels.
Anyway, just my thoughts and nothing more than suggestions.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 24th Mar 2015 23:49
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@CE wise words as always and I have modified again which should be better now.
I have to be a bit carefull with the kids images in the game, it is a fine balance between price, amount in game at lower price and this making a lot of poor pictures for paying customers in the app stores later when app finished so I have made cheaper and few more but not too low
I have also changed name in lights and company sponsor prices.
To be honest I just put the 500 and 1000 in there knowing they won't sell however might as well make the most of it so brought the price down and added to the number of them.

Now ready to press the confirm button when get the all clear, it seems to take a while to confirm bank. Must be something to do with US company and me in UK as had to provide IBAN account number which is international bank account number

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 02:40 Edited at: 25th Mar 2015 02:44
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Quote: "I have to be a bit carefull with the kids images in the game, it is a fine balance between price, amount in game at lower price and this making a lot of poor pictures for paying customers in the app stores later when app finished so I have made cheaper and few more but not too low "

I think if they (future app purchasers) know before hand that the images were created by kids, then they would have no problem with the quality.
(it's foda kidz man, it's foda kidz)

This looks good.
You should reach your goal with no problem with the Twitter network you have set up already.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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SpecTre
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 03:11
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Quote: "(it's foda kidz man, it's foda kidz) "


Yes you probably right and I can write in the app description about Kickstarter and how kids took part

Quote: "This looks good.
You should reach your goal with no problem with the Twitter network you have set up already."


Thanks, worked hard on it but not expecting it to if it does then it will be great and I will have reached my ultimate goal which I have said all along that AppGameKit will have to pay for itself regarding releasing on other app stores

Paint Pot is quite a simple easy to use app for little ones but I can honestly say I have put 200% effort into it. I will be glad to get onto next project in my educational apps but I fancy doing a fun game app for a break first
Something with score challenges in hehe

I will probably come back to Paint Pot at some point though and add what I wanted to in the first place which would be a kids art and drawing part to it so not just color but draw too. Get a few other projects done first

The twitter won't stop pinging on my phone lol, I have over 1000 followers now!!! and have also started Tumblr as well as the Facebook page so don't think I can do much more for marketing yet!

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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SpecTre
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 15:42 Edited at: 25th Mar 2015 15:47
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Regarding app stores, most of us release on the Google Play Store with a few on IOS if they have a Mac and can afford the $99 a year to release on there, however don't forget Amazon.

My little kids app Paint Pot has had 48 downloads in total on the Google Play Store and I wasn't going to bother uploading to Amazon however I am glad I did now with these results since release.



Interestingly I live in the UK and on Amazon I have a lot more downloads in the US

I have also now updated the Amazon listing with a video clip and full translations to all the languages so will see if it makes a difference.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 16:40
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Hmmmm, i've read some things in this post that someone could give up after reading!!

YOU DON'T NEED TO BE GRADUATE to reach success!!!
I'm the proof.
I done 3 of 5 years at university and now i'm happy i leaved it...
Well in other country university can be good for job, but coding is not university. University is theory!!

Anyway, you are losing time on apps that will never sell.
Sorry if this time i'm rude, but you are talking always about the same thing.

The way is :
1) Do more app
2) Take the money from the 1st app that is able to sell enough
3) Invest those money PAYING advertise for the app that sell more
4) Abandon ANDROID!!!!!
5) Abandon ANDROID!!!!

If you are doing this kind of conversation here, the reason is that you want to earn much more or you don't earn at all.
So if someone will tell me "i'm hobbyist", he is telling lie!!

You want to market the app???
So get your money, sell your car, sell your bycicle and invest.

Or have some patience to wait the day you will hook a good app.

Ah, don't forget...
Don't do app ike press here, press there or 15 Tile Slide ...........
Do a good game or invent a new kind of game.
Don't look that also i have 15 Tile Slide e press here or press there, because i have too much app... in fact if 1 earn 1$ from all app in a day, i got 100$.

But i have 300 In app Purchase and 100 iAD.
Every day i do 80000 download and 1M access to the server...

Ah, USE A SERVER!!!!!!!
You must use a server!!!
Rent a good dedicated server, you can start for 39$ and track all your app and secure them against hacker.

You don't know how many of your app on ANDROID are downloaded and cracked out of market.
This is why you don't see the download on Amazon or others.

You need the server!!!

Sorry if i was rude, i like all of you, but some times you cry too much!!

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CJB
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 17:33
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@ SpectrePaul - This is a great thread! - Don't lose heart if you don't get replies straight away, remember most of us are hobby coders (for now at least )

I published my first game on the Play store recently (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.uzmadesign.snowman&hl=en_GB)and it went in at number 228 for the keyword "Snowman" on my device. I had a few downloads and fantastic reviews from people here (THANK YOU!) and the Mrs shared the link on her FaceBook page with friends/family which gained a few more downloads. After approx one week, the game moved up to position 107, then some nice person gave it a 1 star rating with no comment! (Why leave 1 star but no comment??? ) and it has now dropped to position 241. Ouch!

Things I would do if I had the free time:
* Publish an update to give better graphics, sounds, and bonus for fast spins (allowing snow-ball attack against opponents snowman)
* Create gameplay vid to upload to youtube
* Create Facebook / Twitter for it
* Create other language versions
* Publish to more platforms / stores

@SP> Perhaps you could add a list of stores to the top post? i.e. Google Play (https://play.google.com/apps/publish/)
Amazon (https://developer.amazon.com/public/support/submitting-your-app/tech-docs/submitting-your-app)
Flexindie (flexindie.com)
Vodafone Emerging markets (https://developer.vodafone.com/publish/)

I'm sure there are lots of available outlets. It would be good to see a comprehensive list maintained somewhere!

V2 T1 (Mostly)
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SpecTre
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 19:47
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@Gekko
I agree with a lot that you say and your input is valued to help in this post as you have already done it and made a name for yourself having lots of downloads.

I am not sure about the University approach as a blanket rule not being needed. I agree you do not need to go to university to make it as there are plenty who haven't, you need passion, drive and a lot of commitment to go on, however university is still a good option to do as it can greatly enhance what you can achieve and could also land you the dream job too.

I do consider myself a hobby coder now, however I still want my apps to do well. This is a pride thing for me and also because my slant is a bit different as I am doing educational apps for kids. I know these won't sell as much as a good game but I am passionate about the kids software as I used to be a professional coder in the 90's working for a software company called Prisma Software.
Unfortunately I didn't carry it on as I got married and had kids, house and mortgage and I think this is the difference. If I was younger with no commitments then I may sell the car etc and make a good go at it, however when you have all the commitments it is for me too late to do this. I couldn't just leave my well paid job to follow a dream, however I still want my apps to do well and maybe make enough spare money to buy a MAC and then release on the App Store.

I say spare money though as if I wanted to I could go out now and buy a MAC and pay the licence fee for Apple but I couldn't justify the expense for my hobby when there are other more important things like kids driving lessons, cars and university to fund for kids lol
So yes for me it is a hobby but a passionate one

Regarding your approach, I think you are right with your method for advertising and doing lots of apps then finding what sells and don't waste time. You are a good success story of AppGameKit and I think the Apple App Store is really the key. They may charge more for the licence to upload apps but they do seem more secure, professional and maybe the search method is better than Google Store.
Google Store is rubbish when searching for an app, you type something in and a million other apps come up which don't even have anything to do with the name you typed.

Well I have only had AppGameKit a couple of months and still have to release the paid for version of my app yet but my goal is to get AppGameKit to pay for itself and earn enough to get a MAC and then work on Apple Store no matter how long it takes

Quote: "Sorry if i was rude, i like all of you, but some times you cry too much!!"


I don't think you were rude, just passionate about it and I think your input is very valued here as we all need advice and help that's why I started the post

Can you explain the server side of things you mention. What do you do there?

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
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SpecTre
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Posted: 25th Mar 2015 20:45 Edited at: 25th Mar 2015 20:51
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@CJB
thanks for your comments, I decided to have another go at this thread as mentioned previously and I am pleased how everyone is getting on board and it seems there is an interest for this area after all.

Hopefully it will continue with everyone giving advice and helping each other when needed. I will try my best to put things on that I find along the way anyway and will update the top post with things people think useful

Regarding your game Snowman it is very frustrating someone giving low stars without any comments, how can they expect improvements if they don't comment what they are not happy with. Hopefully soon you will have more to knock that one down a bit
Don't know if it would let you put a reply up to say email you so you can try to assist but not sure if you can if they have put a comment on there first.

You have a lot of good ideas for updating your app.
I have stopped coding my app for the time being as I need to do more pictures but unfortunately can't get on my PC at the minute and am just using the tablet to write this but I decided to do all the Facebook, Twitter thing to get an interest before going with the paid version.
I know kids educational stuff won't make the same downloads but for me getting towards 150 downloads in a month is quite good and I am passionate about doing this even though I still count it as a hobby.
I think sometimes I get too passionate about stuff hence the bit of a moan halfway through the thread lol

Quote: "Perhaps you could add a list of stores to the top post?"


Good idea and done
If anyone else knows of any they think are good and want up let me know on here and I will add. This includes Windows etc.
If you can put the site on here as a link I can add it to the top easier.

I have modified the top post too, I am not bothering putting apps needing assistance as people can still do this by looking in the gallery now its working and keeping a check on the showcase posts.

Maybe if we keep at this thread it could be quite useful and it could get sticky by a mod

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SpecTre
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Well I have got the bank account verified and have just clicked the button to launch the Kickstarter project!

The link is here if anybody would like to help

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1516183818/paint-pot-kids-coloring-book

It is quite exciting and although it took a bit of time and effort to complete, I think it is worth doing and you should have a go yourself.

At the end of the day what have you got to lose

I will put a section at the top of the post for live AppGameKit kickstarter projects so if you do one let me know on here and I will add it to the top.

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Hei Spectre congratulation for the kickstart approved, i will go to it after i complete this post...

Well, i understand your point of view, if i look at family and children (that i don't have yet), but i know what you mean.

For you i have a suggestion, big suggestion...
Pass to Apple, Kid Apps sell big on Apple Store, in fact many times i thought to develop one.
If you need help or we want try 1 app together, you can pass me the Tier 1 code and i will be proud to publish in c++ for you and give you the earnings taking only a little part for me.

The point i wanted to say in the previous post is that on Apple Store new apps are taken more in consideration than the oldest. In fact if you update an app regularly they care if you go up and try to feature you in some country...
For example i don't mind if my "CB Radio Box" is top seller in Guatemala, Filippine, or other strange country, the important thing is it download 30 times a day because it cost 5$.

The most time when i don't work on an app, i look the store to see in which country i can be a top seller, in this way i get code pieces of my old apps and put all together to create a new one with more features.

In this moment i'm working on my last big project... i'm coding "Wozz Up" a secure chat, just like skype and wickr and whatsapp fused together but with more features.
I just spent this night to code the Push Notifications, and after 6 hours of work now they are perfect.
In this way i will add Push Notification in all my future apps, and why not, if i have to update some old (and i have to update all to delete facebook) i will add the new code.

As now i have a partner that is spending much money in advertise, i'm working the double, to cover his money, this is the next level. Earn just like we was 10 peoples, even if we are 2 (well 1, me).
We need it fast because i want to hire new programmers and 3D graphic designers, also cause i want to go to sea in summer, i can't do all by myself, i need some vacancy sometimes ahahaha.

Anyway, about the server...
You need a dedicated machine with some services on it, run it in PHP or Python doesn't matter, but you need it to track all.
I track when a user launch for the first time the app, how many times he play, how much he spend, if he is trying to crack the in app, if it is hacking the app sniffing the packets and resending them, how much i'm earning in real time, the ID of the device (that i create by myself), visits, and all you can imagine i can track.

Now, think....
I started with Street Karate Fighter, a clone of "International Karate +" from C64...
When i released it i done 60$ in a day, but what that game was missing?
Multiplayer!!!
In fact when a user read a game is multiplayer, he download it if compared to another without...
So i added multiplayer in all my games.

The games that can't be in multiplayer, no, i don't start them, or i start them only if i can complete them in a week.

Start to think what you can do in a week....
Hmmm i can do an "Hanged" game with words, so come on let's do it and add multiplayer.
Hmmm i can do a tetris (i called it "Duotris" from the C64) and added it the multiplayer.
And so on, all done in a week.

Those app will get you upper, and will make you buy a Mac Mini in 2 months.

Now think, i have about 35 slot machines, that do very much...
How to get those slots work like a real casino?
You need a server, that calculate the payout and send to the app only the results.
In this way you can't be hacked and the game is just like the users want, so online, multiplayer and real.

Look how many users i have now on "The Book"...


This is the power of a server.
You want to do a communication service?
Ok you need a server.

You want to do a "Basic" for iPad like my "GG Basic", you need a server because i shared on the server the codes the programmers do and they can use it to store.

Those are only some example, but i do all with the server, i miss only to eat and drink ahuahuahu....
Remember i talk about a SOCKET server in loop just as a service on linux, not a web page.

Now i have 25 server services on and i coded a load balancing to manage all the 10K users that are concurrency connecting on the machine. Really hard, but after 4 years of updates i reached a great level.

Finally, i understand the hobby, but please boys, if you wanna do it only for hobby, work for me, do a really basic code, i don't mind of the graphic, just send me millions apps... send the code to me and i will pay you more than you can earn on Android. If it is an hobby i think is better for all, don't you think?

And i'm not talking about 10/20$ but more than i saw until now on the forum for Android apps.

Ah, i wanna add a thing...
If you are very curious to see how my apps goes in the world, use AppAnnie.com (well you will not find all my apps cause i'm transferring them to the company account step by step), but you can see that i'm not this top seller you imagine. So, not top seller earn much, and TOP SELLER????

There is where i want to arrive!!



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SpecTre
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Great post Gekko and thanks for the info and offer in making an app together.
I might take you up on that sometime

I quite fancy coding on the Mac but all my equipment is Windows/Linux based. The App store is probably one of the best around and the equipment like IPads and IPhone are designed with specific screen sizes etc none of this multi size screens and specs of Android.

I haven't really looked at too many apps on the App Store for the simple reason of not having any Apple equipment.
I will have to start having a look around to check it while I don't have access to my PC but it is interesting that kids apps do well on there.

Your info on server set up etc is interesing and it sounds like you have the system spot on.

If people start taking you up on your offer to release software then I think you would be well on your way to being a software publishing company

I am quite excited about the kickstarter so will see where it goes, can't stop looking at the screen for backers lol
I have 2 at the minute

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xCept
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I quit my steady day job in the computer industry three years ago to pursue full-time app development. The hardest part of being self-employed is the burden of taxes and total responsibility to pay for things like insurance. I went from paying $15/mo. for health insurance to paying over $300, and self employment taxes can hit hard. At least in the US, a good rule of thumb is to set aside one-third of your income to cover taxes (so net profit of a $1.00 app sale is really about $0.45 after Google/Apple/IRS take their cut). Google and Apple generally send you 1099 forms at the end of the year, but even if they don't you still legally have to report all of that income to the IRS. Now whenever I get paid from Google or Apple I have my accounts set up to auto-deduct 34% which, in turn, is put toward quarterly tax estimates that I send to the IRS. The app world is really unpredictable and income can vary greatly month-to-month.

I was fortunate enough to win three consecutive worldwide app competitions sponsored by Intel over the course of a year, where they did some case studies etc. and I got to demo some stuff at their largest conference last fall in California, which also helped in networking. I've done some non-competition contract work as well with them, but my main focus remains my own apps including several in development.

I really don't do much on social network sites, and have never personally promoted any of my apps to my friends. I let the traffic come organically, typically through word-of-mouth by other users sharing media and info across social networks themselves. In the early days, I paid a lot of money to a few "video review" sites and found it was completely worthless. Basically almost all of their followers and subscribers are bots and the video itself didn't receive more than a dozen or so hits, and cost over $300! It doesn't hurt to submit PR releases but I also can't say that helped drive any new traffic to my apps.

The majority of my app revenue comes from ads. I originally only had a paid version of my most popular app, but two years later I added a free ad-supported one and my revenue shot up exponentially. I have yet to do much with in-app purchases, I simply have free and then full versions often as separate apps, with the full one being restriction-free. A very basic version I created for Android a couple years ago has also proven quite popular, to the point where I plan to redo it this year since iOS has been my main target until now. Although the iOS app is my main source of income, Admob ads actually bring in a lot more money for me than iAds.

Good luck!
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SpecTre
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Posted: 26th Mar 2015 16:23
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@xCept, interesting that most of your revenue comes from ads instead of paid apps and in-app purchases and that you also got it right with Google

The tax area is a biggie and one area which nobody would think about. I have added some links to UK gov sites for tax and small business areas and have left it open to put other links in there too if anyone knows of any useful ones. I will split into sections for countries.

This sort of experience will be a huge benefit to all of us I think.

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xGEKKOx
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Yes Spectre, i fought with a lady that published kid apps in the wrong category (casino/dice) for months before surpass her.
I hate when developers use the wrong category to grow up and apple don't reject their binary!!!!!!!
Ahhhhhhhhh, and they rejected my new slot because the reviewer is a completely stupid!!!!

Anyway, xCept is right. Well imagine Italy where all tax amount is 68% ahahaahha...
This is why we have the company in Spain.

1/5 of my revenue comes from iAD too, but is much variable based on the bid and the ad currently in a country.

Lately i tried to advertise my Sphinx Slot in USA, wow, it costed me 120$ CPA for 1 click ahuaahuahu.
It done 1M impressions, with 10000 taps, but charged on 1 conversion 120$ ahuahuhua.
This is why in US the CPC Bid is too high, and HOLY COW... is there someone offering 200$ CPA??????
Maybe Candy Crash, my god!!! Impossible to grow up if you don't invest a bag of money.

But the day i will invest 100000$ for an app will come too.
The important is that you cover this money with iAD integrated and in app purchase

Well is hard but not impossible

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Polaraul
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Old news, but those active in the Android market may see this as an opportunity, or yet another hurdle to overcome!

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/26/google-starts-testing-mobile-app-ads-in-the-google-play-store/

http://www.polaraul.com
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SpecTre
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Posted: 27th Mar 2015 16:28
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Quote: "Yes Spectre, i fought with a lady that published kid apps in the wrong category (casino/dice)"


Will have to make sure put my app in correct section when finally get an app on there!

Kickstarter not doing bad so far 6% on second day
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1516183818/paint-pot-kids-coloring-book

Quote: "Old news, but those active in the Android market may see this as an opportunity, or yet another hurdle to overcome!"


Looks like it is another great marketing tool for the BIG players to get the smaller fry lower down the ranks even further.

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Posted: 28th Mar 2015 00:10
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You can find some useful information about alternative markets on my blog:
blog.naplandgames.com
One of our most useful resources for getting app coverage has been this:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/207278/Game_Developer_Help_List_rallies_industry_vets_to_aid_rookie_devs.php
We get a fair amount of coverage for our apps, but they don't lead to a lot of downloads. You need organic exposure on the market via ASO. Sensor Tower and App Annie are helpful with that, but it is a difficult struggle.

Majority of our downloads come from paid ad campaigns and cross-promo between our apps and other dev's apps. Chartboost is what we've used for both of these.

One key point is that you need a lot of apps. You need to saturate the market in your own way and cross-promote between your apps. Second key point is that marketing will take as much if not more of your time than it takes you to develop. Third key point is you need to make an app that is financial viable: it costs a minimum of $0.50USD to obtain a user so you need to have ARPU of higher than that. The best way to do that is with consumable IAP. Although, the model brought forth by Crossy Road is showing a different possible trend. Always examine the money making apps. They can be hard to find because many apps out there may be popular but making no money. And it's not necessarily about the genre of the app (though casino style games seem to rake in the cash), it's more about the monetization model.

Cheers and good luck to all! Make lots of quality games

Napland Games - Sudoku In Space - Wordspionage - dFenz Facebook
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SpecTre
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Posted: 28th Mar 2015 02:06
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@Naphier,

Some interesting reads there that I have stuck into the top post, I inparticular like your blog which really goes into detail on marketing other app stores

Nice post.



To any Mods or anyone who can make it happen. This thread is really starting to come together and has a lot of useful information on it with quite a lot of views in a short period of time now.
Is there any chance this could become sticky with the others at the top.
Thanks

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CJB
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Posted: 30th Mar 2015 11:08
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I'd like to see TGC create a game store. I'd like to think they can earn out of our success too!

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@CJB Could be an idea, like their own app store where they take a % of the sales and would also be another area of income which they don't have already.
This could also extend to GameGuru created games because I can't see many places where these games could be sold and they already have the asset store so this type of system could work.
I am sure Gameguru fans would like somewhere to sell their creations also

TGC Store ---- ?

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Just been having a look at this site as recommended by BatVink and I must say I am really impressed with it.
It contains pretty much anything from gfx and sounds to videos etc.

I am going to use it to get a promo video for Paint Pot done as it is really good price wise also.

I will also add this link to the top of the page with other useful info.

https://fiverr.com/

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Ok I have been checking the Fiverr website and looked at the promo videos for presentation clips etc.
I did a bit of a search and noticed a lot use the same gfx.

So I checked youtube and came across this site which is the software that a lot of people seem to use.

Looks good.

http://www.powtoon.com/

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@all mods any thoughts on making this thread sticky?

I have been adding useful content to the first post which I and others think are good resources and I personally think this is the only thread like it on here.

It is also getting more difficult to keep a check on it near the top because of all the debugger posts which are appearing.

I think it would be a good idea for a mod to start a post for debugger questions where they can all be stored as it is starting to get swamped with them.

Cheers

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Envato is a great site for all kinds of resources and its quite cheap too.
I recently got 5 licence free images for $1 each which is awesome when other sites were charging $30 plus for one!!

http://market.envato.com/

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@Spectrepaul I use Envato quite a lot, and the prices there are very reasonable. The only issue I have though, and even Envato authors have raised this, is the prohibitive cost of extended licenses. If you don't intend to directly charge for your apps though, Envato is a great resource

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Been a while since this thread has had a post, so just wanted to chip in with an overlooked resource, which is DeviantArt.

There is a category there for User Interface/Games Design which is where I post screenshots of my releases, and it usually results in downloads.

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SpecTre
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@Polaraul good call there will have a look into it and add it to the top when I get a chance. Been really busy with the Kickstarter project, really exhausting work perfecting the page and tweeting etc but it is coming to an end soon.
Don't think it is going to be successful by a long shot but it has gained me a lot of downloads of the Lite version with good feedback.

I wasn't aware about the Deviant Art showcasing games design, put a few url posts on here to have a look at your pages

Would help if this page was sticky because I think it is quite an important part of AppGameKit and the thread is easily pushed down because of all the debugger .12 and .13 questions at the minute.

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I think the Kickstarter was pretty successful though in getting people to the Lite version, and all good experience for the future

As for a few of my pages on DA

http://polarauled.deviantart.com/art/Avatar-Maker-Chibi-Edition-527827017
http://polarauled.deviantart.com/art/Avatar-Maker-Pirates-Edition-525450374

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Quote: "I think the Kickstarter was pretty successful though in getting people to the Lite version, and all good experience for the future "


Yes I said at the start all round it would be a win/win if it was successful or not which has proved the case with the downloads and exposure to the Lite App.

I have put the 2 links to the top of the thread as an example

That Chibi Edition passed me by, well done.

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Just a quick tip if people are not sure about signing up to designed for families app on the Google Store. You need a privacy policy stored somewhere on your web site and then put the URL link in the description on your Google Developer account.

Obviously this is handy for me with doing educational apps but just take a look at my URL link here as it doesn't have to be anything complicated as I just got accepted.

Thought this might help as I was a bit lost at first with this and had to do a good search for ideas and some are really long complicated things!

http://leap.my-free.website/about

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Yes i have it too for Apple.

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Very useful info so far in this thread, I had another question though that I haven't been able to find much on so hopefully some people here with experience publishing can comment.

I wish I had the time/funds to localize my game to more languages but unfortunately I don't right now, maybe in the future. I'm wondering though, should I restrict the distribution of my game to just the ones I can support now or not bother and go for everything? Are there any potential drawbacks to publishing non-localized versions everywhere?

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." -Abraham Lincoln
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CJB
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@Doz I'd guess the only drawback is you will probably get bad feedback from users if their shiny new download isn't in their language.

Something I'd like to know more about:

There's a whole bunch of old c64 games I'd love to have a crack at re-making with AppGameKit (Anyone remember RedMax, Clumsy Colin's Action Biker, Beach-Head, 180, and Caverns of Sillahc to name a few?).

I have noticed quite a few re-make type games being made / published (like Street Karate Fighter (IK+ remake), Manic Miner remake, PONG etc.) and wonder what legal issues to expect in terms of Copyright. Should you contact the original developer / publisher first? Is it okay to do if it is published as a freebee? Can a remake be considered your own work if you change the graphics and sounds enough? etc. Would love to hear if anyone has run into copyright problems who can offer some dos and don'ts. Thanks!

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Posted: 7th May 2015 17:28 Edited at: 7th May 2015 17:29
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Hi CJB,

for all the remake i done, i had some issue, but all solved.
Usually they are based on names.

What you have to do is go to the copyright database and check if it is on the name or the graphic.
Old games usually have it on the name and logo. Usually i chose the games where the company is out.

For example, when i published my 2nd game (after Street Karate Fighter)
i called it Arkanold (ARKANOLD with the L that seems the I in caps) but some months after
apple asked me to change it on request by Taito.

When i published iPong Online (a multiplayer pong) i was contacted by Atari, that explained me
that the word Pong can't be used at all. Wow. So i called it Ping Pong Online.

Of course after name change, the selling crashed down, so i added advertising making the apps free.
Only the Karate is selling much.

Now i'm also coding "Boulder Dash" from C64, and i'm studying how to name it.

Anyway, usually they will always contact you, and you do what they want, so no problem finally.

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Impetus73
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Name it: Doulder Bash ?

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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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