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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK Studio

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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 5th Feb 2019 23:07
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I think we just need to utilise the version upgrades of OpenGL - what was AppGameKit stuck on?

Vulkhan utilises the latest update on OpenGL infrastructure and is will be always updating.

Im talking gibberish now probably. but keep smiling for the future kings
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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 5th Feb 2019 23:15
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and Im pretty sure TGC has listened to us for Version 2

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/212232?page=24#msg2638170

All in good time folks im sure
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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 5th Feb 2019 23:22 Edited at: 5th Feb 2019 23:27
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But before we go further - just have to make you all realise that the system is made by Paul - a one man band.... not a team of 1000s like Unity/Unreal may have - just 1 person dedicated to AGK.

So something to think about there

I know how difficult it is for any challenge to one project, never mind 9 at once.

This will be the break through for TGC.... AppGameKit compatible... so relax, grab some choculate and an hamlet and sit relax waiting for the moment.

Im sure TGC has realise where Visual Studio went wrong... This will be the next best thing ever Paul did

Well done Paul and TGC.
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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 5th Feb 2019 23:38
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I think we are all frightfully thinking that something going to be taken away from us, like Linux etc.

TGC wouldnt do that - they are a professional company with users as their lifeline of growing...

Stop panicking people.. All will be very good -- luck forward to it....
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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 5th Feb 2019 23:44
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as long as it rebuilds 100,000 mesh sizes in millionth of a second then im good lol - just kidding..

Just wondered if the 100,000 mesh size increases now?

keep it going...
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fubarpk
Retired Moderator
19
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Joined: 11th Jan 2005
Playing: AGK is my friend
Posted: 6th Feb 2019 14:25
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At the end of the day TGC needs to continue to make money in order to keep going
With the binaries taken apart and all the free versions available out there im sure hasn't
helped AppGameKit make money. So I hope they find the new Vulcan version a good money
maker in such a way it still allows development on AppGameKit classic.

Like many I would like discounts on the new version, but if TGC need to make more profits
from AppGameKit I will pay, Once its in a stable and released state. My main worries about the
life of the product. Being a broke solo developer it is hard to stay up to date.

I do feel this is mostly a positive step and I believe it was most probably needed to be
released as a separate version as it A> uses a new engine and B> the loss of funds due to free
versions because of torn apart binaries given for free doesnt help bring the money in
only the customers. You only have to look around on forums not just tgc forums to see
just how many people are using AppGameKit sharp for example and have no intention of paying for it.

fubar
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Lance
21
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Location: Third planet from Sun
Posted: 6th Feb 2019 15:31
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I will support Studio by purchasing it and I hope a lot others will do the same .
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MikeHart
AGK Bronze Backer
21
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 15:39
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fubarpk wrote: " You only have to look around on forums not just tgc forums to see just how many people are using AppGameKit sharp for example and have no intention of paying for it."

I can imagine that this is hurting TGC. But they made the decision, not their user. They decided to allow all these free versions. AppGameKit is a great engine and it is so damn cheap.
Pay for it! If you can't, then there are plenty of free alternatives out there. If you can't pay for it, then it is a hobby for you anyway.

So far what I see about AGKS is... its a new coding editor with a building placement tool they say, a build in media viewer and a new render backend for the AppGameKit players. That is all.


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Rick Nasher
7
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 17:06 Edited at: 6th Feb 2019 17:15
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If the AppGameKit sharp version drew that much attention then I surely hope TGC adds the C# option in the IDE so people can use & buy it.
Those people are already familiar with it and C# is highly popular so might gain lots of revenue, but also has to offer enough surplus value.


So imho ideally in addition to the mentioned features, that new Studio IDE should:
- allow for Tier1(BASIC), Tier2(C++) and Tier3(C#),
- make it compile true executables(if possible to do),
- fall back to OpenGL for compatibility from the launch date (- probably too much too ask I know, but..).

And a few missing crucial things, people been asking for ages about, such as:
- add a asynchronous loading commands,
- add spotlights to the lighting system,
- complete the physics system for vehicles, cloth and fracture,
- include a set of quick billboard system commands (mainly to speed up such operations under Tier1),
- auto texture 3d models,
- improvements for shader users, like accessing object/light matrices in shaders, which apparently saves tons of hassle for lighting and especially shadows.(suggested by GaborD).


With that much ease of use and completeness, people will be persuaded much easier to upgrade or buy it in favor of the competition's stuff(will be hard for people to ignore AppGameKit Studio).
Throw in a discount for people who bought the Visual Editor/Designer(not me) for apparently buyers feel bit let down.

If above conditions are met, or promised to be added later, I think TGC will have a guaranteed winner system at their hands, for it will satisfy pretty much everyone's needs and can go head to head with the competition rather well too.


If not, then.. well might not be the instant hit we all hope for, and which TGC *should* be aiming for.
So come on TGC, show some insight and keep up the good work.
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Lance
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 17:59
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I do miss Dark AI from DBP . Would make life a lot easier for beginners ...
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Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 18:08 Edited at: 6th Feb 2019 18:22
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Quote: "I do feel this is mostly a positive step and I believe it was most probably needed to be
released as a separate version as it A> uses a new engine and B> the loss of funds due to free
versions because of torn apart binaries given for free doesnt help bring the money in
only the customers. You only have to look around on forums not just tgc forums to see
just how many people are using AppGameKit sharp for example and have no intention of paying for it.
"


TGC released the source and both approved and supported the release of the python and c# wrappers. It's not like people went behind thier backs to decompile and reverse engineer any binaries.

TGC chose to make these free.

That said, I have paid purchases of dbclassic, dbpro, agk v2, and DLC / plugins. I would happily pay for agksharp if it were being sold, and I will likely be preording studio when it opens up to do so.

Let's not presume to know anyone's history or intentions behind the legitimately provided flavor of the language they choose to use. Thanks.

And for that matter, for just about every block of agksharp code I have posted, I have also posted it's equivalent implementation in tier 1 code
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
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Ortu
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 18:11
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Quote: " If the AppGameKit sharp version drew that much attention then I surely hope TGC adds the C# option in the IDE so people can use & buy it.
Those people are already familiar with it and C# is highly popular so might gain lots of revenue, but also has to offer enough surplus value."


Here here. There is a huge user base between basic and c++ that they should be tapping into. C#, python, and java are all great cross platform candidates.
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
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Bob Sherman
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 18:24
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I think you should give the people that bought the Visual Editor a free upgrade out of fairness. The Game Creators seem to never finish their software before moving onto something else.
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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 18:43
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@Ortu:
Quote: "Here here. There is a huge user base between basic and c++ that they should be tapping into. C#, python, and java are all great cross platform candidates."


I agree. Ideally they would make studio universal for BASIC, C++, C#, python and java, sort of like MS does. Perhaps they can do that step by step, adding one language at the time.
That would really open up a wide range of potential users/buyers.

- lol in reverse that reads Universal Studio(s)..
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Zigi
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 19:19
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I also would like to see C# and OOP in AGKS but to be honest I don't see TGC care. AGKSharp has not been advertised anywhere on the planet nowhere in the C# game dev community, nowhere on the home page. I don't think TGC ever truly considered to support C# but I honestly believe it would benefit AGKS.

Regarding people decided not to buy AppGameKit because of this free Java, C# and Python versions and it did hurt AGK. To be honest, the gaming industry become extremely competitive. As a result we are getting more and more for free. Unity and Unreal literally compete with each other who can offer more stuff for free and then there is also Godot that nobody mention but should. Godot did come a very long way since the first public release, rapidly developing and with version 3 become very capable.

Today not to share anything for free is suicide. To be honest I just don't know how TGC can survive with their current business strategy which is "develop software->sell->make profit->repeat". It is no longer that simple with so many free options out there like Godot and many others and you can't even say that free is worse in anyways because it is no longer the case. The world has changed even big companies like Microsoft is trying different business strategies and give stuff away for free. Sorry, this is the world we live today and yes, 1 developer or not, low budget or not AGKS and TGC need to compete with these free options out there. So they either come up with something really huge or a business model including a free option something more than a free trial. This is not how the world works anymore. Need to change.

I don't know what TGC plan but in my opinion, they should be focusing on a single product only and constantly add new features and stop rewriting the same engine over and over again like they did with FPSC->FPSC X10->FPSCR->GameGuru->GG C++-> GG X11-> GG PBR / DB->DBP->FE->AGK->AGK2 and now AGKS. No other company do this. Most companies still developing the very same tool like 10 years ago and constantly evolving. This is what TGC should also do.
For example, I could totally imagine an AppGameKit and GameGuru marriage in AGKS. TGC should drop GameGurum focus on AGKS only, add the 3d editor to AGKS, add GG content with scripts to AGKS so no coders can use drag 'n drop to make games without coding just like in GG. Share it for free with the option to export to Windows only for commercial use with a splash screen, offer a paid version to also target other platforms without splash screen, offer a source-code license for those who need it and then offer asset packs that also ready scripted and support drag ' drop like in GG and job done. AGKS for everyone, programmers, scripters, no coders, students, teachers on a low budget, studios with big budget. 1 tool for all but different plans and tiers to reach everyone in all corners. This is what AGKS should be.

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PartTimeCoder
AGK Tool Maker
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Location: London UK
Posted: 6th Feb 2019 19:36
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Quote: "The Game Creators seem to never finish their software before moving onto something else."


If the reason the Visual Editor sat in the dark for so long is because it was being replaced with what was promised first time round then I welcome it and say its about dam time, but with TGC's track record and the repeated statement "AGK has not been abandoned" does make me skeptical of the direction this is going to take.
Tier 1 Includes
Timer Include | HashTable Include | INI Include | HealthBar Include

Tier 1 Plugins
Library Plugin | TTS Plugin | Clipboard Plugin | Debug Plugin | SQLite
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janbo
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 20:08 Edited at: 6th Feb 2019 21:04
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It is evolving, they (Paul) never created a whole new engine by himself in the (i guess) short amount of time, he reuses all the old code for sure.
He upgrades OpenGL 2.0 to the Vulkan render pipeline which is probably 20% or even less.
And well I don't care too much about the visual editor stuff, but it sounds like its welcomed a lot nowadays and if done good i'll probably adopt it.
We all hate half baked stuff (wink to TGC).
I imagine the sales dropped a bit over the years, but in SteamSpy/SteamDB the sales look good for AGK.
If it would come as a free patch to "AGK classic" I'm pretty sure everybody would cheer, so not quite sure what to think about the base price. (not for me but to lure more people in )
On the other side if the money is well spend in the Product (well everything else wouldn't make sense) then I'm even happier to invest in AGKS.
I also hope they can lure some people from other engines/languages to AppGameKit as they compete more and more with other engines,
so we get a bigger community and more content, as long as they are so nice like you all guys
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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 20:41
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@Zigi
I agree this may sound like a good idea: focus on one product, AppGameKit Studio and build upon that.
Guess should be possible to configure an editor/studio in preferences in such a way that it's useable for both AGKcoders and GGnon-coders.

Dunno about the whole free bizz model thing and don't think AppGameKit is too expensive. TGC could adopt similar policies, but only once AGKS catches on and most important: is completely finished - no lose ends such as half finished physics and other stuff the competition offers, such as easy prefab in-build networking solutions or add-on's ( Photon Multiplayer Engine would be nice to have as possible add-on )

The add-on's model may be profitable enough too, we simply do not have enough insight to draw conclusions.


BTW: GG evolved nicely, but in comparison to AppGameKit way too slow on my old system(crawls actually) and is Windows only, so may work somewhat different internally and perhaps not as easy to merge the two as suggested.





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psychoanima
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 20:54
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TGC should offer AppGameKit and GG on HumbleBundle. After that to make a nice discount for AppGameKit Studio to existing AppGameKit Classic users.

I saw many software developers boosting their sales trough HumbleBundle just before they release a new version of their software.
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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 6th Feb 2019 21:05
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An XBOX, Playstation 4 Add-On would be nice too (at an additional price of course) cause we do have to have developers rights to acheive that
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Kakise
AGK Tool Maker
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 21:25
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I just hope that this new AppGameKit Studio will improve the 3D game making pipeline and the ability to make apps.
PCG Lover
Using AppGameKit Tier 1&2

My creations:

[Tier 1 PLUGIN] Wave Function Collapse for Tier 1
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Bob Sherman
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 23:23
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I remember when this use to be a good company. I bought Darkbasic, Darkbasic Pro, backed AppGameKit, and backed AppGameKit 2. It seems they have had some problems. I live in Australia so $50 becomes $70AU with conversion. I bought the Visual Editor and it basically has been abandoned. It would be nice to have a tilesystem. If they knew they were going to make AppGameKit Studio, it's unethical to release Visual Editor as a money grab and hardly work on it. Kind of a slap in the face. I remember all their promises for AppGameKit 2 that took forever and the 3D pipeline is not at all easy or good to work with. It would be nice if it worked like Darkbasic PRO.
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puzzler2018
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 23:28
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Stop been negative people - im very sure TGC are doing the best they can to develop something that robust and future.... Lets wait and see hey!!!
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puzzler2018
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Posted: 6th Feb 2019 23:36 Edited at: 6th Feb 2019 23:40
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as anyone experienced in other software products what this Vulkhan can really achevie???

Yes - explain

No - Keep it low - cause TGC beleive in it

Dont know - nevermind



LOL

Its a bit like getting a new Toy/Gizmo to play with. Xmas present come agian LMAO - Is there a manual that can buy for it? I love books to read
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puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 6th Feb 2019 23:55 Edited at: 6th Feb 2019 23:56
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Ill let you all decide

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Ortu
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 00:02
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Vulkan is a graphics framework like opengl or direct3d. Using this will likely not change the core agk language much but will definitely change the shaders and possibly shader commands. It may also impact the media / formats required to be used
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
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haliop_New
User Banned
Posted: 7th Feb 2019 03:50 Edited at: 7th Feb 2019 03:52
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found these 2 there are plenty on youtube, this is a unity Test (sorry for publishing something made with unity here but this are 2 good examples about Vulkan.)
btw Vulkan is a new version of actually open gl but its actually not, its like they started there but went to a completely new road with it. I sat for some time now learning it.

some things I learned.
1. much better CPU usage, it enables the device to use its own CPU and threads much better which means less pressure on a single thread.
2. about 10 - 15 percent better electric consumption which means more time to play your games on a mobile device and make the battery last more.
3. it was announced at 2015 as the "new version of open gl" but then the people who made it renamed it.
4. in all the videos I saw on youtube there is about 10 - 15 - 20 percent more FPS.
5. the best part? you can actually put more sprites\ 3d objects in the same scene and still get the same FPS as openGL 2.0 with lesses sprites\objects or greater. more sprites more fun.

two videos made with unity about a very popular game:



and obviously, how can we know for sure without a Doom benchmark on the highest possible display options.
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haliop_New
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 03:53
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you bought me TGC take my money, please.
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Qube_
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 04:24
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Is the new AppGameKit Studio IDE based on Geany?. I ask as currently the AppGameKit IDE on Mac is unusable for retina users so if the new AppGameKit Studio is based on Geany then surely it's going to suffer the same fuzzy and slow performance which makes it a no go purchase for any Mac user. I understand that Paul hasn't been able to pin down the issue yet and it's not his fault but we've been stuck with this issue for months and it's very frustrating as I'm stuck with an older version of AppGameKit, hence the reluctance to shell out cash on a new version. I'd also hate for any new users of AppGameKit Studio to have a fuzzy slow IDE as their first experience.

Another concern is the Vulkan API on Mac. Is this going to be default?. Is AppGameKit Studio going to support the Metal API at some point?. My worry is that Apple may at any time decide that Vulkan to Metal wrappers are banned on the AppStore in a push to promote their oh so precious Metal API. This would lead to developers being left high and dry, especially if Apple get all crappy after dumping OpenGL and move on to more forceful methods of getting developers to use their Metal API.

Although I also use Unity which has native Metal support I really REALLY love AppGameKit and I'd hate to see it be wiped out by Apple's pathetic push for their proprietary API. I know Mac users are in the minority but it's important to me and so I'd like to know what plans / reasoning are in place for the future of AppGameKit and Mac's.

Having said all that I'm having so much fun with AppGameKit that if Windows becomes the only viable coding environment then so be it - nothing will stop me coding
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blink0k
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 06:46 Edited at: 7th Feb 2019 06:48
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I just hope they don't go with those cheesy icons

i would be very cool if all those windows were detachable too
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Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 08:36
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Vulkan is great, BUT!

At this moment AGK2 is in my opinion one of the last easy to use creation programs for OpenGL ES 2.0. That means, I can create apps and games for the OUYA, Raspberry Pi, Low-Spec devices with e.g. Intel Integrated GPUs. Also Settop-Boxes like Amazon FireTV Stick.
Vulkan needs OpenGL ES 3.x compatibility on the hardware side.

So the great thing in Vulkan is better performance, because we can better select between GPU and CPU. But the OS and the chips also need to support that as well.
So no older Android than, I guess, Android 6.0 support.

Great is, that if we use Vulkan, we can use ASTC, a new type of texture-memory compression. So no JPEG or PNG or full Pixel-Images in RAM handling.
At this moment we have only 32 Bits per Pixel for textures. It is a waste of memory. With ASTC integration we could have only ~4 bits per pixel (may vari in quaility) so we could save about 7/8 of the memory in GPU RAM needed.

that could make out of a 4k x 4k texture from 64 MB in RAM only 8 MB. And we could have ASTC files instead of PNG and JPEG, so no decompression needed. That would save a lot of loading time.


The downside is, that it will only work on newer hardware. I guess, the new Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K e.g. supports OpenGL ES 3.1 and so Vulkan. (Geforce 600 and up) But maybe you have a GTX 460 or so, this card supports Microsoft DirectX 11, OpenGL 4.1, but no Vulkan.
Intel GPUs (Intel 6th, Skylake) from 2015.

So yeah, for new projects it is great, and maybe in 3 years all people have upgraded to Vulkan compatible hardware. But for projects in the near future or older projects that target older hardware, I guess, it does not much.

Also AppGameKit is in my opinion for more independent developers. So in this case, the question would be, how to benefit from Vulkan visualy? Higher textures are possible, maybe more complex 3D objects and so on, but is it realistic, to create these complex worlds with AppGameKit?

For that we would also need more multimedia tools like 3D environment placement tools, animation tools and so on. So Vulkan is great, but I hope, that we have a fall back to OpenGL ES 2.0


I tested Unity 3D with OpenGL ES 2.0 and it was terrible. And Godot also only supported OpenGL ES 3.1 in the last release and they are working on a OpenGL ES 2.0 renderer, but it has, from what I read, no good performance at this moment.

So OpenGL ES 2.0 and AGK2 will be my favorite for a while.
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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 10:35 Edited at: 7th Feb 2019 10:38
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Quote: "
I tested Unity 3D with OpenGL ES 2.0 and it was terrible. ...
So OpenGL ES 2.0 and AGK2 will be my favorite for a while."


I can confirm that too. And there are loaaads of machines that are *not* optimum, high-end gaming systems, with users that still like to play(and buy) games every now and then. (one of the reasons quite a few developers use low-end to medium class systems as their dev machine, so they are sure they can run on the widest range possible and reach biggest audience.

The potential customer base to serve has to be as wide as possible for a company to be profitable, unless being backed by huge funding and only doing triple A games.
So having both possibilities would definitely give AppGameKit Studio the edge, if well implemented and maintained.
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janbo
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 11:27 Edited at: 7th Feb 2019 11:29
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I like Vulkan, for me that means more shader.
But as I made my shader pack i actively decided against PBR shader( I made one for test purposes) and realized it doesn't fit to OpenGL 2.0 you also wouldn't be able to create large maps as you need some sort of occlusion culling at least.
(maybe portal culling for Doom Like games)
This is still needed, even with a performance boost from Vulkan.
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 11:53
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Hi all,

Thanks for all the messages. Replies to various points made:

* There seems to be enough users who still want Linux. We will aim to release a version after the initial launch (along with the OpenGL fall back)
* There will not be a 3D scene editor in this first release.
* If Apple stop Vulkan wrapped titles then we'll have to code a native Metal solution. We use AppGameKit for our learn to drive apps so we need those to continue in the market too,
* Exe's will be the same as they are in AppGameKit Classic
* Remember we're running a deep discount in March
* Paul is focused on Vulkan engine work, we also have Preben (GameGuru Loader) as our IDE developer
* I note you points about c# and other wish lists but that's for another day. We can review again once V1 is out.
* The IDE is not based on Geany, it's completely new
* The icons in the screen shot are temporary and being re-designed now.

Development Director
TGC Team
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bjadams
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 14:18
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Will there still be a T2 C++ option, or will we be stuck with AGK2 Classic?
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haliop_New
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 14:55
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THANKS, RICK! OPENGL FALLBACK SOUNDS AWESOME. ALL CAPITAL CAUSE YOUR ANSWER DID CLARIFY SOME MISUNDERSTOOD THOUGHTS EVERYONE HAD HERE. (and then when I post it says all caps turn it off...) haha
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 15:04
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@bjadams yes, there will still be the standard C++ libs like we have in Classic
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Qube_
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Posted: 7th Feb 2019 18:10
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Quote: "* If Apple stop Vulkan wrapped titles then we'll have to code a native Metal solution. We use AppGameKit for our learn to drive apps so we need those to continue in the market too,
* The IDE is not based on Geany, it's completely new"

Great news, so goodbye to the current Mac retina issues with the IDE and clarity on potential issue for the AppStore... I'm in
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Cybermind
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Posted: 8th Feb 2019 12:50
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Quote: "* There seems to be enough users who still want Linux. We will aim to release a version after the initial launch (along with the OpenGL fall back)"


Awesome I really need that for Pixel Killers - The Showdown as both lobby and game host servers run Linux And OpenGL fall back is also awesome! I really need to support old machines as most of my games look like old pixelated games and people expect to be able to run that on almost anything

I am amazed by what you guys have achieved! I've been around since DBC and DBPro (I still use DBPro for some of my tools), when AGK2 came it was a monumental change for me and my game development dreams I am looking very much forward to AppGameKit S! I have only released two side-projects so far, there are other games waiting that is very far in development. AGK2 has done so much for me, thank you, peeps, at TGC!
13/0
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gerdich
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Posted: 8th Feb 2019 13:57 Edited at: 8th Feb 2019 14:14
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I would like to have Delphi. But I haven't recieved the "AppGameKit Studio Newsletter". I am curious what it is about. (... and the possibility of plugins also for Android and iOS would be wonderful. ... and the HTML5 Version could also be outputed as TypeScript.)
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 8th Feb 2019 15:48
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@gerdich The Newsletters are now available on line here

If you want the newsletter emailed when it's released make sure you have the option ticked in your TGC profile.

Development Director
TGC Team
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Ortu
DBPro Master
16
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Posted: 8th Feb 2019 17:34
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FYI: They posted a sneak peek registration thread top of this board, check it out!
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
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Golelorn
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Posted: 8th Feb 2019 19:36 Edited at: 8th Feb 2019 19:37
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So will this open up Sampler2DArrays, texture arrays, cubemaps,derivative functions, etc for mobile or are we still stuck with ES2.0 limitations? How will we know what shader commands are available to use?
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gerdich
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Posted: 9th Feb 2019 12:56
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@RickV Thank you for the informations. I've ticked the Newsletter and am excited about the coming AGK2 game kit Studio. The money is prepared for March. It is a must have. I hope there will be no difficulties as my previous boughts were through Steam. There must be again an interface for Delphi, as there was with the old AGK.
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Battoad
AGK Developer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2019 14:39
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Hi, I am having a few mixed feelings about AppGameKit S.
I have not been using AGK2 very much for over a year now simply because i didn't feel as though it was going anywhere, and the reason for this is now shown to be AppGameKit S.
Although we have had a good number of free updates to AGK2 and members generally posted their thanks, I could not help noticing that about 80-90%+ of each update was related to fixes, leaving little time and opportunity for new development.

Yes I am excited about a new version, as TGC usually produce something special for major releases, however I do have concerns.

I feel it could be like starting a marathon again, only this time about a mile behind AGK2 and a real possibility that the race could be abandoned again. However clearly AppGameKit S should catch up and overtake but this could take a while. If AppGameKit S develops as slowly as AGK2 did, then this is a real sticking point for me.
AGK2 could still be developed much further, there are quite a few commands only available on certain platforms which makes the cross-platform functionality wanting, and you could spend an age going through the v2 Feature Request thread for commands requested but without any obvious demand, completion or still outstanding indication.

I would like to hope that the AppGameKit S command base is regularly added to and yes fixes are essential, however the current ratio is not good. Maybe TGC could advise if it has this area covered.

One final point, I hope that AppGameKit S and exported apps will be 64 bit as a default, does anyone use 32 bit these days?
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Resourceful
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Posted: 9th Feb 2019 16:32
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The one Image I have seen of "AppGameKit S."
look like the tool I need in making what I need in far less time

the projects I have created with it AGK2 I would not have been able to as easily with anything else
I know AGK2 is being worked on with additions and fixes as it would be with all program that does similar things.

I've found AGK2 the quickest way to get my end goal

saying that

"AppGameKIt S." would help me pushing things where I need them to be
I for one want to get a copy as soon as it comes out

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Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
17
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Posted: 9th Feb 2019 17:24
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@Battoad

32 Bit is needed for older projects and older hardware. Also there are PCs out there e.g. in the government in Germany with Intel i3 and 8 GB RAM, but with only Windows 7 32 Bit Version, because they are not able to test, if all 32 Bit software would also run on 64 Bit Windows as well.
Also many PCs in schools are about 8 years old and may have only 2 GB of RAM or have 32 Bit OSes

Also Raspbian is 32 Bit because of older Rasberry Pis with ARMv6 and ARMv7

Also Google allows games to deliver updates till 2021 with 32 Bit updates. So yes, we need 64 Bit binaries, but we also need the option to create 32 bit binaries as well.
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janbo
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Posted: 10th Feb 2019 12:35 Edited at: 10th Feb 2019 12:38
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Quote: "I feel it could be like starting a marathon again"

Yeah you could think that, but they using the current AppGameKit souce code and building on top of it.
My concern is that, as the product is getting bigger, i.e visual editor and stuff, you also need to maintain more, which could lead to a slow down in features again. (its a feature in itself, right )
But even with all my concerns Im actually pretty positive about it, as AppGameKit classic worked for me all the time, so I think they do the same job with this product.
I only I try to raise the bar
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Zigi
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Posted: 10th Feb 2019 15:14 Edited at: 10th Feb 2019 15:46
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Quote: "My concern is that, as the product is getting bigger, i.e visual editor and stuff, you also need to maintain more"

This is what concerns me too. TGC normally do outsource bits to 3rd party freelancers, often these projects also the personal projects of 3rd party and TGC only offer to publish it like they did with the Visual Editor, VR and GGLoader and was also considering with the Java, C# and Python versions if there would have been a baby boom in the community, Since Rick confirmed the developer of GGLoader working on the IDE, it makes me wondering if this IDE is going to be official or just an other community project TGC going to publish in which case there is a HUGE chance it may not going to end well simply because it won't be maintained along with the core too long.

I'm also trying to be positive about this because AppGameKit the core product is rock solid but TGC did break it reputation in my eyes with some of the abandoned projects they have sold in the past. FPSC X10, X-QUAD Editor, Dark Shader, many DBP plugins. and most recently AppGameKit Visual Editor. But I could even mention GameGuru. It has not been abandoned but they did not take it in to the direction they promised...
I just don't get it what was the point of the newsletter if the release is months away and they showcase nothing from it and don't do any survey what we want it to be like. I believe TGC got a marketing person on board, maybe it is some sort of marketing strategy to drive us crazy with lack of showcase so then we buy it in March just to see what direction AppGameKit is going. if that is true at all AGKS is going to be the "next" version to replace AGK2 and not just an "alternative" version we can choose. This is basically what they did with FPSC and FPSC X10. X10 was only an alternative that didn't worked out and it have been abandoned after and they were continue developing FPSC and not FPSC X10. The same can happen very likely to AGKS and AGK2 and this is what I am worry about the most when I try to make the decision to buy this in March or not.

Now they only select 100 lucky guy to try it next week, I hope that 100 person who get to try it next week (or when they get to try it) will be allowed to share some sneak peek, first impression videos about it and at least 1 of them will.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 10th Feb 2019 20:01
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TGC is struggling with its products, when you see Steam is like they are begging for a dollar. Boys,just do the damn thing right, build in front,code in the back. a code-only app dosnt have much future today.
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