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AppGameKit Classic Chat / World Builder - closed ALPHA test

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Santman
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Posted: 17th Nov 2019 10:28 Edited at: 3rd May 2020 20:25
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Hi all. This thread is for the closed alpha of the world builder, to allow direct feedback from the testers around bugs and new features requests.

User guide
The user guide for the most current ALPHA will be in the documentation folder, and maintained here. PDF format for compatability.

Current planned changes (from feedback):
Once this list of changes is complete, version 0.829 will be released. For version 0.830 the option to export will be introduced, along with basic code chunks to allow functionality in users own code.

General
*Redesign main info box - move scupting amount control to scultping menu
*Fix red box when loading a world
*Add recovery when loading fails
*"New world" functionality to be added
*Add options form for new world - different world types / shapes (planned 8*8 square, single chunk, 1*64 chunk layout for platformers) - PARTIAL, CAN NOW SELECT SIDE ON FOR PLATFORMERS
*Fix loading to allow for more than ten names
*Add thumbnail preview to loading screen
*Replace "No image" stock texture with a stock ground texture
*Selectable landscape shaders - default, normal mapped (done), and one that textures automatically based on height
*Visual map of chunks on screen
*Improvements to chunk display to make it more obvious which chunk you are editing
*"Show me how" video window for all functions
*On screen link to help guide at all times
*sample textures split into grouped folders

Game mode
*Exit with escape instead of "G"
*Remember camera position prior to game mode and return to it on exit

Grass editing
*Set default grass tuft image
*Warning when changing layers or exiting and grass not generated
*Warning if no image when generate is pressed
*Move grass base texture to grass menu
BONUS: added option to toggle generation of grass base layer for each layer of grass geometry generated...now grass does not need to have a base colour layer

Landscape editing
*Fix out of date help text
*Reduce speed for editing smaller areas
*Redesign interface and main screen info box
*Smoothing tool - make size scalable
*Undo last action option?
*Rework sculpt tool to visual representation clearer
*Fix bugs in auto moiuntain and add a form for options

Paths
*Fix help text spelling
*Allow fluid drawing across chunks
*Fix preview of brush appearing on multiple chunkcs and being left behind when exting
*Provide a default path image
*Display a grid to make texture seperation more clear

BONUS: Added realtime mini-map to game mode - now you can see the minimap using your own creations in realtime

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fubarpk
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Posted: 18th Nov 2019 06:57
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Just like to give a thumbs up its working great

I did notice when I pressed tab I lost allot of frame rate on my pc but I have things streaming in the background
chewing up resources so its unfair to say that's a problem

I do love the ability to save and load things like particle effects and I see you added fog

The building part worked well and as expected, im not sure if starting with water is necessarily the best thing tho
That's how others do it aswell so that's not really a bone picker, Unless im missing something what is most useful
is a mostly flat land that we can add mountains and lakes rivers etc and the present method if im understanding
correctly how to use the controls its kinda difficult to make a semi flattish land but it may have been that tab thing
il try again later. I was thinking perhaps a load save island feature if that's not too hard to add.

The program works really well and I haven't managed to make it error yet, I also love the fact you have added examples
this is great
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Santman
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Posted: 18th Nov 2019 09:10
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Brilliant, thank you. I'll make a few small changes, then test if updates work.

For flat grounds the trowel tool does that. I'll post some quick tutorial videos tonight.
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Santman
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Posted: 18th Nov 2019 20:12
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What do you mean by island saving? Like the ability to export and import specific chunks?
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fubarpk
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Posted: 18th Nov 2019 20:32
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Quote: "What do you mean by island saving? Like the ability to export and import specific chunks?"

yes

but that's before I learned about the trowel but still could be handy
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Santman
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Posted: 18th Nov 2019 20:54
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It would be easy enough to add, I can do that. I still need to look at importing height maps, which was something asked for before.

I'm doing some quality of life changes right now, but in the top post I'm going to add some keyboard shortcuts - it occured to me after you "tab" comment.
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fubarpk
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Posted: 20th Nov 2019 13:59 Edited at: 20th Nov 2019 14:43
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Latest Tests
Still having probs with the trowel it may have been the low frame rate I was getting (processes in bg dw)
I couldn't switch to ocean or skymode so I imagine that may have to be implemented yet
But when I switched to game mode and selected first person I got an error saying joystick does not exist
-------which would've been fine had it not go to AGK's click screen to exit
The painting mode works well but when I went to select an image I didn't see one appropriate in its default
path. The generating grass worked tho without a problem

I feel like im picking it to death but truth is the tool is so useful, that when it becomes available im sure the
forum will be filled with requests

PS I do hope there are others out there testing I did notice on facebook people interested in the testing
oh and I just noticed the added tutorials will take a look at them next

EDIT just tried again without my normal bg process's and I peak at about 21FPS the only thing in bg is facebook
opened in the windows 10 default viewer. I think the latest update has caused me some grief with allot of new
invisible bg processes too which wouldn't help. Need a pc cleanup, I miss win 7 cos I could do an image restore
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Santman
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Posted: 20th Nov 2019 18:06
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For now, you are actually - wanted to make sure the auto updating was working first. I have message a couple of other people, but not sure they have seen yet.

Re the sky and ocean menus, they aren't active for now. The trowel tool, double check the video to make sure your usage is correct but the mouse wheel adjusts the height. It shouldn't be too slow though. Where did the default image open? Was it not the root install location?

Frame rate will vary on the system, but the landscape shader is slow. I'll look to optimise it later, but I'm going to add options to change all the shaders, so you can use any of your choice. It also has the abilty to load reduced graphics settings, so for less powerful machines you can load smaller assets which will significantly boost speed, but that's more intended for the game engine rather than the editor, for example of you want to deploy to mobile.

Are you turning reflections on the ocean on?
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fubarpk
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Posted: 20th Nov 2019 20:15 Edited at: 20th Nov 2019 20:19
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Quote: "Where did the default image open?"

It remembered the previous loaded place I looked which was particles .I should've realised

I think the problems im having with the trowel tool might be just me
as I can use the build etc well just when I try and adjust with the scroll wheel it don't seem to work or when I did get it to work wasn't that helpful
I may need a new mouse

Quote: "Are you turning reflections on the ocean on?"

not changing from the default but it looks shiny from the start
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Santman
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Posted: 20th Nov 2019 20:36
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I'll fix it so the height default to the landscape height in the centre of the screen or something, might help.

Well, by default reflections are off.....press 7 and it should looked much better, and hopefully not kill performance. Dont worry, it doesnt save the setting.
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fubarpk
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Posted: 20th Nov 2019 20:57
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Quote: "I'll fix it so the height default to the landscape height in the centre of the screen or something, might help."

I love my mouse wheel and use it for so much the mouse buttons to prob why it wears out but perhaps could have
raise/lower level buttons and perhaps some value there that could be seen

Quote: "Well, by default reflections are off.....press 7 and it should looked much better, and hopefully not kill performance."

just tried clicking that didn't seem to effect performance but didn't have any land during that test so didn't notice much apart
from it jumping up in FPS and then gradually coming back down again

Hopefully some of the others have had a chance to look and share there opinions

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Santman
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Posted: 20th Nov 2019 21:21
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Just sorted the bugs around the joystick error. This is why we have the alpha phase....

There's actually alot more controllable in the background I just haven't opened up yet...editing pressure can be changed to create much smaller or larger changes (I think you can do that now actually with + and -, but the editing pressure is only displayed outside editing mode right now), wave size and speed, coastlien sharpness (smaller, closer waves or further out sweeping waves), assorted "toon" style lighting effects in the shaders....I'm not sure how much to open up to the user.

The test island I'm building up for hte videos - when it's done I will add teh option to download that as a ready made example to play with.

Thank you for all the testing and feedback, it's very helpful.
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JosephB
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Posted: 21st Nov 2019 14:39
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Santman,

Thanks for the opportunity to test. As noted by others, the forum has been a bit slow for several days, so just getting started now. Looks great and much smoother. FPS so far stays around 144. I started a new world and accidently pressed the "Load World" button, but could not determine how to exit from that without loading a saved world or exiting the app.
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Santman
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Posted: 21st Nov 2019 20:02 Edited at: 21st Nov 2019 21:28
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JosephB......yeah, I've not done much with part if the interface yet. In the build up to v 0.9 I want to look at two major features: different world types and model / textures libraries.

For the world types, I want to offer the current 8x8, or 64 in a line for platformer (like the code I posted in another thread), and a single chunk just to function as a placement editor.

For textures and models I want to make it so textures load independently of models and are assigned. Coupled with the tri planar shader already in this would give significant abilities to create complex worlds with smaller numbers of textures.

I'll add an escape button check or something mean time though.

P.s. 144 fps is faster than I get....do you mind me asking what processor and card that is?

EDIT: the word noce at the start of this post was an auto correct on my phone. Fixed now.
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JosephB
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Posted: 21st Nov 2019 23:33
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Santman,

I have an i5-4670k CPU @ 3.4 GHz with 16 Gigs. My graphics card is a GeForce GTX 1070 with 8 gigs.

Not sure I was supposed to do this, but I loaded a prior world, which loaded fine. I used the auto mountain and that worked fine. I tried to paint some grass, but as it was processing I received the following error:
The System locked up and I pressed a key to exit.

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Santman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2019 08:55 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2019 08:56
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That's strange. Couple of quick questions:

Was the density set to 1?
Had you filled the entire chunk with grass?
Had you used the fix seams tool after building a mountain (that can leaves gaps at chunk joints sometimes)?
Had you drawn any paths?

The error suggests that the size of the grass area exceeded the memblock. In AppGameKit the maximum memory block size is actually too small for an entire chunk to be filled with density 1 grass, but you should just get a message saying that not all grass could be rendered, it should protect against a crash.
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JosephB
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2019 16:19
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Answers follow questions:

Was the density set to 1? I did not set/change density, so density would be whatever the default is.

Had you filled the entire chunk with grass? No. Actually, just a looping small area.

Had you used the fix seams tool after building a mountain (that can leaves gaps at chunk joints sometimes)? No. The grass was not placed on the mountain.

Had you drawn any paths? Some paths had been drawn previously on the loaded file, but none around the grass painting and none during the time I tested the grass.

I hope this helps.
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Santman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2019 19:12
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Ah, that does make sense.....it sounds like I missed a scaling variable on reloading the paths map. I think where its failing is in checking if a path exists where the grass is being drawn.
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Santman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2019 22:17 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2019 22:22
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I've uploaded a new version tonight, with a few fixes - all listed in the word doc included.

I've also activated the tri-planar shader for objects (I actually forgot I turned this off), so this should now work. What this does, effectively, is calculate the texture 3 times from different angles, then merge them to display the best result for the model; this let's you assign a basic tiled texture to an object but for it to tile and appear almost normal when they overlap. In the pic below, it's the exact same texture on both sets of overlapping cacti, but the ones on the right has tri-planar active so the seam is virtually invisible. Try using the flat road section in the demo - if you place multiple peices together overlapping each other and activate tri-planar texturing on them all....they should look like one single object.



JosephB, I can't replicate your error at all, no matter how hard I try. I think I know what's going wrong, I just don't know why it went wrong. I'll keep looking, but I think in the next build I'll add a function to save a more detailed debug file if the exact circumstance you encountered happens.

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Santman
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Posted: 24th Nov 2019 20:09
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Been a busy weekend so thought I'd show a little sneak peek of the next significant feature for the world builder: texture libraries.

Now instead of being restricted to having a single texture named the same as an object in a folder, the World Builder will allow you to build a custom library of textures that you can freely use across many objects. Combined with the tri planar shader, this allows anyone to quickly add rocks, trees, platforms, walls...anything that doesn't need complex texturing without the need to mess about with UV mapping. Again, all the work is done in the background to make sure images are a power of two etc, so you can quickly add untextured elements, throw a texture on them, then build complex areas. You could even use it as a sort of real time texture editor by adding a texture to an object, seeing what it looks like, making changes then reloading the texture to see it update.

This also means that "chunks", or even entire levels, can have specific texture sets that load in to make the most of memory.



Once this is finished the next stage will be to add a similar feature for models and then the ability to add custom shaders of your own. All this should be out with the Alpha next weekend.

I will awrn though: this update fundamentally changes how imaging works and though I have done my best to code a convertor into the next build, you may find some anomolies. Turns out some of my images are numbered through my assigning them, and some through AGK...and I started at 1000000 before I knew AppGameKit also started there. This update should largely fix all these issues as texture numbering moves to AppGameKit allocations.
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JosephB
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Posted: 6th Dec 2019 19:19
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Santman,

I somewhat recreated the error by starting the app, then raising the chunk, creating an auto-mountain, then loading a saved file and finally trying to paint some grass on the loaded chunk. I received the following error:

I hope you can follow what I did.

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Santman
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Posted: 6th Dec 2019 23:31
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Hmmm. Thanks for that Joseph, I'll try and recreate it. The function to create a new world while an edited one is loaded doesnt exist yet - when I set it up it kept crashing to desktop and I couldn't figure out why at the time so disabled it for later review.

This Sunday I'll be putting out a fairly large update that changes texture and object handling to make using it as a scene editor for objects much more powerful, I'll see if I can recreate the issue to fix it before then.
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Santman
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Posted: 9th Dec 2019 00:34
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That's the newest version of the Alpha live online - for those with the launcher it should automatically update at next launch.

I will do a short tutorial on how objects worj now, but essentially you have to now create an image library for the world using the new menu option, then these textures become available to the objects. This means that any old worlds will load now with objects without textures, but if you add these to the image library then they can be quickly assigned to models. Sorry if this is a an inconvenience, however this is a fundamental change to how the builder handles texturing objects and will be a one off.
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DannyD
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Posted: 9th Dec 2019 01:50 Edited at: 9th Dec 2019 01:52
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Hi Santman

Cant get it to load or save ...
Folllowing Error keep popup.

Think it missing a AppGameKit World Builder Folder, and some files maybe



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Santman
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Posted: 9th Dec 2019 02:17 Edited at: 9th Dec 2019 02:19
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Hi DannyD.

I've just messaged you - you need to save something first, there are no sample worlds with it yet - as I do the tutorials I am building a small sample that will eventually come with it. If saving isn't working either, try going into you my docs folders then create a folder called "AGK World Builder", then inside that create a folder called "Worlds".

It should create it on saving, but I'll double check in case I missed something.

EDIT: maybe try creating a folder inside that Worlds folder too.....it may be the command to get the first folder name that's failing, so as a temp fix try just making any folder name up.

Has anyone else come across this?
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DannyD
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Posted: 9th Dec 2019 09:58
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Try to Save, Some error.

Create the "AGK World Builder" and Worlds Folder Manually in users\admin\documents , and then it save .


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JosephB
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Posted: 9th Dec 2019 16:51
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I have not yet had any issues saving or loading.
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Santman
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Posted: 9th Dec 2019 17:04
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Jospeh, did you test it months ago on its earlier form? If so its Highly possible you already had that folder structure set up.

I'll fix it to catch that though - need to work on the file browser a bit more anyway.
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DannyD
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Posted: 10th Dec 2019 01:04 Edited at: 10th Dec 2019 01:07
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Hey Santman

Getting more and more impressed about the AppGameKit World builder.

I might pickup 2 bugs (Pardon me if it had been mentioned before.. join the group little late :-(
See attached Image

To recreate ... follow these Steps
1st.
* Create land
* Texture ground using paint mode
* Paint some grass (But dont click "Generate Grass" Button
* Generate/Test the game
---- Grass show as white (Looks like snow) which is actually cool, but "No grass"

* Go Back and click Generate Grass
* Generate/test the game again
---- Now you can see the "grey" is still showing under the generated grass

2nd .
"Speak to Jade by the Farm House" banner show on the right of screen

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Santman
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Posted: 10th Dec 2019 10:50 Edited at: 11th Dec 2019 23:08
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Hi Danny.

In the grass point, have you set a texture for the grass base? If you watch the tutorial video, how the grass works is you set a texture for the grass model, but also a base texture (a simple green or something). Then what happens is when you draw the grass shape, it will render the base texture where you drew, the idea being you then get a grass texture under the grass model itself. The grey suggests this base texture isn't set?

For point 2, that's because the missions from a test game scenario are still active, but I will remove them.
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DannyD
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Posted: 11th Dec 2019 01:54
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Hi Santman.
Ok, I'll watch the video again. I havnt select any Base Image
Thanks
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JosephB
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Posted: 11th Dec 2019 17:16
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Santman,

Yes, the file structure was set up during the previous testing.
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Santman
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So the next update I am removing all the game related elements to bring it back to more of a scene editor.

What other areas should I focus on tidying up?
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Santman
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Posted: 17th Dec 2019 16:45
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Looking for a few more ALPHA testers if anyone is interested....
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Golelorn
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Hey bud, I can help out. I have a few days off. Would love to help you out in your project.
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pamercomov
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hi sandman i have sent a private
using AppGameKit V2 tier 1
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Santman
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Bit of a delay on the next ALPHA I'm afraid.....having some issues with AppGameKit and how it allocates object numbers when assigned via a variable.

Hopefully it will be out not long after Christmas.
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Santman
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Hi all.

Been a slog, however I have now made ALPHA 0.820 live. There's lots of changes in this one, and although existing worlds should load in, textures will be missing and will need to be added from scratch again. I would advise testing from a newly built world in this one. This is the last fundamental change planned though, so all newly created worlds should be fine moving forward.

This one focussed on the scene editor aspect and has laid the ground work for rapid production of object based scenes, with the start of some useful placement tools to come.

NOTE: loading a level over an existing one will still cause alot of issues, and probably kill it; I'll work on this soon.

Enjoy - would love to hear all feedback and suggestions to make it easier to use. More tutorials will follow.
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JosephB
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Posted: 27th Dec 2019 16:24
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Santman,

Significant visual change at start--asks to load or start new world. If I select a new world, then starts that world in grid mode without ocean view, but easy to select the ocean view. Also, when I start sculpting or painting the "mouse-over" help information for the main menu items no longer shows. The mouse-over information just shows what the currently selected menu item does, such as while in grass mode, the mouse-over shows only "Left click to draw vegetation areas onto the landscape. Shift and left click to erase." when I mouse-over the other main menu items. I save the world and then when I reload after quitting the app, the world loads just showing the grid view. I must select the show ocean tick mark again.
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Santman
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Posted: 27th Dec 2019 18:57
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Hi JosephB.

The help text vanishes? I never noticed that, I'll have a look.

For the ocean, that's just a quick toggle for now until I do the full ocean menu, but they are more view options. Would you want these saved with the main world? Obviously in the final build you will be able export it with or without the ocean regardless of the view.
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fubarpk
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Posted: 28th Dec 2019 02:24 Edited at: 28th Dec 2019 09:16
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Thanks for the update Santman
I like the grid by default that made it much easier to create a land
Ive only had a quick play this time but plan again to give it a good go later

EditThe trowl tool works so much better now not sure what you changed
to improve that or if im getting hang of it but before I found it too slow with the
sea on for editing changes but now im managing.

just so you have knowledge on what im using it on
an intel core I5 6500 quadcore @3.2ghz
8 gb ram and 2gb nvidia video ram cant remember model
MerryChristmas Everyone
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Santman
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Posted: 28th Dec 2019 13:21
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Hey Fubarpk.

Glad it's working easier now. Lots changed - listened to your feedback so now the ocean starts just above the default landscape height, where as before it was quite a bit above it.

Still need to fix the bug that stops the default texture from displaying, but if you paint any chunk the default texture will show up that makes editing even easier. Hopefully I'll sort that tonight.
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Santman
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Posted: 29th Dec 2019 04:11
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JosephB

That should be the help text back now. And, for now, the view settings for the ocean and grid will save with the application but not the world....so if you set the grid to a specific size or configuration, it will restore to that when you next load the world builder.

Let me know if it does not work as expected now.
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Santman
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Posted: 29th Dec 2019 17:23
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Woohoo....we now have height map importing fully functional.

Say hello to the UK and Ireland....


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fubarpk
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Posted: 29th Dec 2019 17:40 Edited at: 29th Dec 2019 17:41
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Awesome santman cant wait to try that out (was going to suggest but thought youd done so much to it)
MerryChristmas Everyone
fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk
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Santman
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Posted: 29th Dec 2019 17:51
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Suggest away.....as well as the height maps theres a bunch of new tools for model placement to make it easier.

Open to all ideas though.
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fubarpk
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Posted: 29th Dec 2019 18:53
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Will it have an easy export to agk option with code in final release
as getting the personal settings etc across could be a bit timely
MerryChristmas Everyone
fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk
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Santman
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Posted: 29th Dec 2019 18:55 Edited at: 30th Dec 2019 09:53
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Roadmap in the full post.....the final version will have a stock program for AppGameKit that will handle loading etc when you pass it a name.

The rest will be up to users though.

EDIT: Just realised that the roadmap wasnt clear....yes, an AppGameKit function that handles all loading will be supplied, so you'll just need to pass a couple of variables in to load anything created with this.

Unsure if what to do with the NPC path creation etc.....is this even something anyone is interested in?
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Santman
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2020 00:49
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Hi all.

I've just put out a small update which makes moving objects when they are snapped to the grid easier.

Not sure who, if anyone, is actually finding this useful or still playing with it but there won't be anymore significant updates for a little while now.
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fubarpk
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Posted: 7th Jan 2020 23:05 Edited at: 7th Jan 2020 23:07
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Just went to try the world builder and received this error (please see attached file)

it may just be a firewall thing but never had the problem before it could be that maybe I don't have files there
MerryChristmas Everyone
fubarpk on Itch...………...https://fubarpk.itch.io/
fubarpk on googleplay..https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=fubarpk

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