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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / You wanted to know what is being done - here it is...

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las6
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Posted: 31st May 2004 11:31
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Quote: "the IDE is one of Pro`s main bugbears"

if that was the case, wouldn't you think TGC would actually do something about it rather than deciding to bug fix the language itself?

That's because there's really nothing wrong about the IDE. It's actually very solid program compared to some of the alternatives. It's also very easy to use and has all the features you actually need. Plus it looks good too.
The main problems here are the people who don't know how to update the IDE. (it's rather easy, there are just 2 patches out there) These people come here bashing the original IDE and this is how everyone seems to think it sucks a lot. But it doesn't.
There are alternatives too, if you want them. Multiple ones that are already at the stages where they can be properly used. I just didn't find any that would have been more suitable for me than the Original IDE. But that's an personal opinion.

So things are going great on the IDE front. I just can't see what on earth people are whining about?


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Mentor
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Posted: 31st May 2004 12:48 Edited at: 31st May 2004 12:56
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@las6 .. I am not "whining" (an emotive term that undermines a valid observation), I am making observations about problems I have had with the IDE, I HAVE updated and it still eats code, throws weird errors in the compiler and insists I am trying to load images that aren`t even mentioned in the source, I switched to Blue IDE not so multitalented but it has autobackup and works well enough (just the odd glitch with the cursor and focus)

@Hamish Mc Haggis .. I never said it was useless, I said/infered it was limiting and didn`t allow several effects that should be possible, as I listed in the example for the invaders tech demo (yeah...sounds contradictory I know, "Invaders" and "Tech demo" )

re: ringbinder
it could display in store well enough, just have a printed wrapper folded around the bundle of pages and shrink wrap em, it should be cheaper than getting the manual bound "properly" anyway, and it`s far more flexible, you can get customised ring binders quite cheap from firms that make promotional goods for example (50p or less each), Dboy780 has a good idea too, you could provide PDF updates and additions for the manual easily enough through the website.

Mentor.

PC1: P4 hyperthreading 3ghz, 1gig mem, 2x160gig hd`s, Nvidia FX5900 gfx, 6 way surround sound, PC2: AMD 1.2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra gfx, stereo 16 bit soundblaster, ups.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 31st May 2004 12:50
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Quote: "A solicitor friend of mine reckoned i had a good case to bring before the trading standards peeps (just read the box and try to code the things it describes)"


Wrong. DBPro specifically has been cleared by Trading Standards recently (within the past 12 months).

Quote: "What is ANAL about people complaining about a product they have bought that doesn't do what it says on the box?"


Your original post presented you as an immature, inexperienced sounding troll with "attitude". That was (and still is) the "anal" part to which I was referring.

Quote: "When you say that only the fixes in the Bug Reports forum will be adressed, does this mean that you not be ( for now at least ) looking into emails that contain Bug reports not posted on the forums? Or have those already been adressed as a result of FPSC, or some other happenings?"


Things will have been fixed as they have been found. SOME emailed issues might have been dealt with, but it would be far safer to assume that when 5.4 is released if your issue wasn't fixed in it, and *isn't* in the bug forum, it ought to be posted there.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 31st May 2004 12:53
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Re: the book - there are special types of glue available to ensure the book stays flat when opened. It doesn't always have to be ring-bound. But we're far away from deciding upon this yet.

Re: the IDE - at the moment we use it exclusively in-house for all of our DBPro code, if it's good enough for us to use day in and day out, it means it is perfectly up to the task for anyone else. We will revisit the IDE at a later date, but not now.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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las6
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Posted: 31st May 2004 15:59
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Quote: "Re: the book - there are special types of glue available to ensure the book stays flat when opened. It doesn't always have to be ring-bound. But we're far away from deciding upon this yet.
"


didn't they teach you anything at school?
The trick is to bend the new book starting from the middle, then 1/4, then 1/8 and go through all these and you'll have a book that stays open. It does kinda ruin the backside of the book, though.

Quote: "@las6 .. I am not "whining" (an emotive term that undermines a valid observation), I am making observations about problems I have had with the IDE, I HAVE updated and it still eats code, throws weird errors in the compiler and insists I am trying to load images that aren`t even mentioned in the source"


That wasn't aimed personally agains you or anything like that. Just see enough of these. First of all, if it eats code even after updating, have you considered using the save all? save project will only save the project file (.dbpro). You probably say you knew this already, but that can't be because you're still having problems with it. I preordered DBpro and had save issues (2-3 times) when starting out. These were due to the fact that I was just using normal save, not save all. (=my own fault) After that, I haven't haven't lost any code because of the IDE. (and how old is DBpro again...?)

No problems compiling either. Saving frequently also prevents most of the possible file errors that may come up in any program.
As for your image problems, that's definately code problem. The IDE doesn't actually do anything for you. Are you sure you didn't happen to include images to the exe via the ide and then delete them by any chance?

There are only two things that I've noticed. Function folding can act up, but I don't use it anyway. Also, the remove indentation plugin app has stopped from working for some odd reason... re-install might help there. But none of these are showstoppers... far from it.

as for autobackups... well, everytime you compile, it makes a backup. But if you want to have real backups, then try saving out the files with a different name.


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Jess T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 16:11
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Quote: "Things will have been fixed as they have been found. SOME emailed issues might have been dealt with, but it would be far safer to assume that when 5.4 is released if your issue wasn't fixed in it, and *isn't* in the bug forum, it ought to be posted there."


Alrighty, thanks Rich

Jess.


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 31st May 2004 16:48
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@Kale:
Isn't a bit ironic that you wait until TGC makes an anouncement stating the steps that they are now taking to improve DBpro's problems, that you decide to complain about them? lol Makes no sense to me. You are grinding your axe against something that is purely good news to all of us.

Now that I've thought about the veteran's board more, I agree that a purely "elected" member status probably wouldn't work too nice. I don't think a pure "time" based membership would work real well either though. All in all, while the idea *sounds* nice, I don't think it will work all that well. What kind of topics would even be posted there? It would probably be the LAST board that I would want to start a topic in because I wouldn't want to cut my feedback off at the knees.

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zenassem
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Posted: 31st May 2004 17:34
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After reading more of this thread, I can see what TGC is up against. I now understand why it "appears" they are defensive and dismissive.

Even if they announce good news it gets them flogged, by some.

The truth is. Rich could have decided to...
1) Not to announce this.
2) Make it a Read-Only thread.
3) Never check back and let people come to their own conclusion.

There will always be things that "WILL" be worked-on, improved and fixed...
But that shouldn't blind us from the positive things that "ARE" being worked-on, improved, and fixed.


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MikeHart
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Posted: 31st May 2004 18:24 Edited at: 31st May 2004 18:26
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Quote: "If it's too much effort to connect your PC to the Internet for the 2 minutes it will take to activate your copy once, then there is nothing we can do about that."


Rich, did you ever thought about people, who can't connect a notebook to the internet? My Sony Vaio GRT815E doesn't have ISDN, only build in dial up. I have an ISDN connection, so I can't connect it. Even if I take the 2 minute effort you mentioned! And I'm not willing to buy an external ISDN modem just to download a patch. I have another machine for internet connection. So that leaves me out I think.

Thank you for the sacasm in your answer. You really have a great way of dealing with customers. I wish you and your company the best that these kind of dealing with customers doesn't lead to a bankrup or similar things. And please save me from correcting my spell errors. English is not my native language, so you will find errors for sure.
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eat much pie
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Posted: 31st May 2004 18:49
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If you have a computer that connects to the internet, download the patch onto that computer and 'activate' it, then copy the DBPro folder (found in program files) into the notebook (via USB, perhaps). You may also need to copy over some regestry files that are related to DBPro, but shouldn't be too much of a problem if you backup the regestry beforehand.

Hope that helps!

PS. This is just pure speculation

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 31st May 2004 19:58
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And whats wrong with internet sharing ? Or just download and save onto a cd..


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 02:39
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Or a laplink cable? Or a parallel connection cable? Even a serial cable would work. Online activation/updates is becoming a way of life. But perhaps we'll run a survey for this in the next newsletter, if the numbers are high enough we'll look into it further.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
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las6
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 09:39
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Quote: "Rich, did you ever thought about people, who can't connect a notebook to the internet? My Sony Vaio GRT815E doesn't have ISDN, only build in dial up."


then why don't you use the dial up? At least around here, all you need to do is plug in the phone line and dial a number... you will have to pay for the phone bills, but 2 mins is such short time that it won't really affect anything.
it also prolly has a network connection that you can use. Just visit a friend with adsl connection (via router) and plug your comp to that... it's a laptop, after all.
Or just simply connect the two comps and share the internet access just like TCA and Rich suggested. There are lots of options for you.


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Bangla
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:10
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I'm a little dumbfounded by this "Online activation/update" thing and think it needs to be explained in detail, maybe in a separate thread for those not able to have a connection at home.

I, for example, live in the middle of the woods, with no hope of a decent connection. At work I have a good connection, although I can't install programs on my computer there (company policy) so I can't download --> install --> copy to disk Flash-memory and bring on home.

What I need (and some others without connection-capabilities) are a list of possible solitions on how to upgrade without a internet-connection which does not include installing on multiple machines and bring on home on CD's/other media. This list would be best if it came from the TGC-crew alone, since they know best how their patches work.

And if downloading/installing on another comp, copy the updated files/DBP-directory is the only way to do it, then please make a sticky on the forum where it explaines, in easy-to-follow-steps, just how you do it.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:19
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Quote: "I, for example, live in the middle of the woods, with no hope of a decent connection"

But, you can get a connection though?


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Bangla
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:33 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 13:55
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Quote: "But, you can get a connection though?"


Yes and no. It's hard to belive, but the house doesn't even have a simple telephone-connection.
I'm using a mobile to phone out but even then I haveto drive about 2 miles to get a connection to a station. Technically I could buy a portable and a model-setup for my mobile, install DBP on the portable, download the patch via the mobile and copy the updated version to the other machine, but I don't really think that's realistic.

I'm feeding my Internet-craving at work on a 10Mbit, but with no "easy to download"-patches I can tranfer via CD,disk or memory-stick to my home; I'm probably done for.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 14:03 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 14:04
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Quote: "Yes and no. It's hard to belive, but the house doesn't even have a simple telephone-connection."

You are in a bad way then...

Quote: "but with no "easy to download"-patches I can tranfer via CD,disk or memory-stick to my home; I'm probably done for."

I doubt you'll be able to do any copying/pasting or whatever, so it sounds like you are...
However, with the correct mobile, you should be able to use it as a modem...


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DMXtra
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 14:15
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Quote: "
The thing about DBPro that really sets me on fire is the fact i loved DBC and it was really my first exposure to 3D graphics and game programming and having wrote a few games and tech demos that featured lots of 'special' effects i recommended the new up and coming DBPro to lots of people in the online community i was involved in, telling them that this language is all they would ever need and having used DBC they agreed. When DBPro finally dropped i lost a lot of respect from these guys who all shelled out cash! It wouldn't of been half as bad if the support had been there (and not the racket that was DBDN). Looking back on this makes me so mad.
"


So you are upset because you recommended a product that you never tried and only thought that would be good from the looks of things and opened your big fat mouth on how its so awesome and it came out with bugs.

Well dude I don't mean to flame you, but arn't too bright to be doing something like this. You should have waited until you downloaded the demo and tried it for yourself.

In real life you always need to check something out first before making yourself look like a jackass.

None of this has been a scam, your only saying that because you looked like a jackass and currently posting like one and thats why you are so bitter.

You made a mistake, so deal with it. So those guys don't respect you. So what? Nobody respects me so I move on. I don't let that dictate my life.

I don't get bitter but try to improve the process. To do what I can to be pro-active to make things better. Through bug reports or other ways of communication.

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Nemo
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 15:00
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Hi there.

Well this is mighty isn't it? I was feeling on the verge of moving to another language and this info has literally pulled me back from the brink.

Ok its just words right now but I can’t even begin to describe how much this news affects my development plans.

All I can say is that my attitude had become so negative recently that I began to resent dbpro and was loosing interest in my project. I am now full of hope and ideas once more and having read this post when I arrived in work this morning, I have been watching the clock all day. I know this makes time pass slower but I am once again in the grip of development fever and I NEED to get home.

Thanks TGC for making my Day.

In the future we will not spank the monkey, the monkey will spank us.
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Bangla
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 15:12
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Quote: "You are in a bad way then..."

Living quiet and peacefully by the lake with lots of beutiful scenery certainly has it's drawbacks sometimes.

But I'm not throwing in the towel just yet. Rich mentioned something about a poll about the updates in the next letter that sounded good. I'll just hold my thumbs until then.

But there should be a backup-plan for those that's in the same position as me. Granted, there might be few of us with no internet-connection, but never the less it would be nice to see a feasible solution to this problem. I was planning to buy the extra terrain-features when they got available but with a onlineupdate-plan I can't get them.
I hope they make all future updates you can buy, available as "regular" downloads.

Of course a online-updater is very good for those with a Internet-connection, no doubt about it, but even games that features a online-updater can be patched with a regular downloadable installer. What is the reason TGA chooses to switch their upgrade-routine? What was bad with the ones they had and what will improve with the new one?

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eat much pie
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 15:15 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 15:18
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@ Bangla:

Here's what you've got to do: Take your PC into work (cleverly disguised as a lunchbox), then get onto the roof of your building. Climb through the ventilation shafts until you get above a free workstation. Tie yourself to the shaft and lower yourself onto the workstation, avoiding the deadly laser beams and defeating the ninjas as you go. Then, eat your lunch, afterwhich you'll have remembered why that sandwhich had been so hard. Strut up to the front door and make a speech in a loud, booming voice, announcing your vendeta against the staff (especially the cafeteria staff) and laugh in a malevolent fashion as you jump into your getaway-car and zoom off into the distance. Once you've done this a few times, your employers will take you to an asylum, where there's an ISDN connectin by the side of your friend, Bill, who tells you to burn things.

Alternatively, perhaps some sort of USB pen drive is in order (ie. activate the software straight from the USB pen, so no software is installed onto the computer itself).

Although method 2 seems easier, my experience in the matter tells me to advise you to use method 1.

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Bangla
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 15:27 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 15:39
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@eat much pie:
I think TGA should include that post in their new helpfiles under the tab: "Trouble downloading updates?" so you could easily remind yourself why you don't have the latest patch, by just a flick on the F1-button. "Oh, yeah, that's right - I haven't been locked up just yet, that's what's wrong!"

In any case, although I must say method 1 has it's obvious uses; could you please elaborate on the USB Pen as I have one, but the office lacks ventilation-shafts.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:02
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I wouldn't worry about it too much Bangla .... This sort of thing is exactly why people "crack" software and "give" it away on peer to peer software. If the right person is affended by this you will have your updates and DBP for free anlong with the updates.

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eat much pie
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:03 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 16:05
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I may be wrong, but I think you can run programs directly off of a USB pen, so install DBPro onto the USB pen (using the installation CD and your home computer).

Then, take the pen into work and plug it in. Download the patch and apply it to the DBPro IDE and compiler, then run the activation software directly from the USB pen. Once it's been activated, take the pen home and copy and paste the files into the program directory (ie. Crogram Files).

Although, this assumes that programs can be run from a USB pen.

I still prefer method 1...

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:22
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Great Idea eat much pie unless they change some registries during activation as you said method 1 seems to be his best bet until someone rips it and gives it away.

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Bangla
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:43
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@eat much pie:
Although the thought of method 1 is much alluring (as it is daring and bold) I'm still considering method 2. But as Lost in Thought said; I think the registers changes (the "put the CD in after 500 compilations"-routine comes into mind) but maybe it'll work anyway?

What we need is to get a TGC-member to give a thumbs up or down on out train of though on the USB-Pen-idea. But for now I'll be content with sitting and waiting for a word from the developers who knows what to do.

@Lost in Thought:
Somehow I got a feeling DBP will never be hacked. But that's just a feeling.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 18:48
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Quote: "If the right person is affended by this you will have your updates and DBP for free anlong with the updates."


We're going to be cycling the update system with every release, so old "cracks" will work for that upgrade only (i.e. a 5.4 crack will stop working for 5.5, etc). So if you're the kind of lamer that needs a crack to use the upgrade because you didn't validate an original copy, then at least this will cause you some grief as you wait for a new crack to appear (by which time we'll have most likely released a newer upgrade).

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 19:17 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 19:22
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Bangla - Don't you have a friend who would let you use their computer for downloading the update? I'm sure your work isn't the only place for miles around with a decent connection (correct me if I'm wrong ).

EDIT

Although coming to think of it, it would be a hassle to do that every upgrade.

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Jess T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:10
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Quote: "Somehow I got a feeling DBP will never be hacked"


Bah, you can't say that about anything these days unfortunatly
Security just keeps getting passed

@TGC,
Maybe a "no activation needed" patch could be released but kept to the team, and sent out to those that specifically request it, and can provide evidence that they own a legitamate copy of DBP, and can provide reasoning why they cannot activate it online. - Just a thought

Jess.


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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 21:55
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Rich-> That's the spirit . I remember a few games that were so buggy patches kept coming out for them, and each new patch upgraded or changed the protection system so the cracks kept going out of date. Annoying people into doing things the legit way works surprisingly well in my experience .

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:22
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It doesn't affect me either way. I have a legal copy of DBP and an internet connection. Updating will not be a problem. I was just stating what will happen. If ALL versions of windows can be cracked why not DBP. Or should microsoft contact you guys for assistance in this matter? I am just trying to say that some people (possibly more than you think) will not be able to do this internet activation on each patch and all of them will probably want their money back. So why not try and help both them and yourselves out by trying to see both sides of the coin. Possibly an activation file or something that can only be used once.

Quote: ""So if you're the kind of lamer that needs a crack to use the upgrade because you didn't validate an original copy""

I don't call not being able to get (least not economically) an internet connection for the specific computer that DBP will be run on being lame for having to find their own way to get the updates that they paid for. If I couldn't get a connection for my computer I would do what I had to do to get the updates. Not because I wanted to but because I like DBP that much and I paid for it. I'm just saying I feel sorry for those guys/gals.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 04:45
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Quote: "I am just trying to say that some people (possibly more than you think)"


We'll see what the survey says - there is as much chance of it being less than you think as there is it of it being more than we think.

We have other ways of activating a copy of DBP planned on paper that might work if the percentage is high enough. Your mistaken for thinking it's only an anti-piracy measure - that isn't why we built it, it's just a nice side-effect.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 06:16
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Well I personally think (other than the online activation) that what you have set as future plans is very good. I am looking forward to it. I just hope this new activation works out for everyone. I don't want to see anyone miss out on DBP just because of this. I have another question though that may help this somewhat. Will future buyers of DBP get the updates when they get their CD's or will they have to download and activate the software and updates? This could be another alterative for people who may dislike the activation and are thinking of buying DBP. They could wait till it is very stable and then buy it.

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zenassem
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 07:55 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 08:04
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Don't tick Rich off. Look at his avatar. He can control your mind.

I believe I heard some insider information that Rich is working on "Retina Scan" activation program. It happened to be just a nice side-effect of the webcam code. Don't believe me? Just look at that avatar.

<Zen trembles with fear>
Just feeling humorous today, hope it's not too disruptive. If so, I'll knock it off.

I disagree with activation in general, but if TGC decides it necessary, I sadly admit that I like their software enough to comply. For better or worse it seems to be the way things are going. I can only hope that TGC looks at every angle before implementing this. I have faith (of course it doesn't effect my salary) that a large portion of the user-base here is legit.

Rich, Have you done a water-mark survey, or any other method to gauge the amount of illegitimate users there are? Not that you need to give out the results, just wondering if there was a study. Usually fairly priced software suffers less from piracy.

BTW Rich, Finally read your profile. Never knew you were a Commodore User. Belated congrats on your wedding!


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las6
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:54 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 12:55
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[rant]
on one hand I think the activation is a great thing. Cos that way, I can proof that I've bought DBpro and perhaps be entitled to some extras. But that's the only good thing I can see about it. Copy protection system are always pain in the ass.
I'd hate to be the kid who'll get DBpro as a christmas present but cannot update because he doesn't have a internet connection. (although, 1/4 of the people in Finland have somekind of broadband connection)

But that's just what happened to me with music cd's. One of the first "mainstream" music cd's that got the cactus data protection system was the Natalie Imbruglia's White Lilies Island album and guess what? It crashed my computer multiple times when I tried to play it. The thing was, I didn't have any other means to play it. When I did finally get it open so that it wouldn't crash my computer, all I got was a crappy mp3 player instead of the cd contains. Geesh. Of course, few days later I found the instructions on how to beat that specific copy protection system. And I did so.. just to burn myself a copy that I can actually listen to!
[/rant]

p.s is there a way to make the font size smaller for off-topic rants like this?


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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 13:17
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Im a right in saying, if two friends went halves in DBpro because they couldnt afford to buy their own copies. With activation only one can use it, or if two brothers got it as a joint Christmas present and they both had their own computers, only one could activate it. Therefore 2 extra copies would have to be bought. I've got my own copy so I dont really care but there could be some young up and coming programmers that could miss out because their families aren't too rich I hope Ive misread it and am completely wrong, please tell me I am.
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DarkPhear
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 00:42
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I'm a little worried because I use 2 computers to develop, and that's something I'm not disposed to change.
The rest is good news, things looks very promising.
Thank u very much TGC.

Cleber de Mattos Casali, game programmer.
DarkPhear is a full freeware RPG developed by me. You can download it and some game demos for free at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
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zenassem
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 05:11 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2004 05:17
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Elemenop & Darkphear,

On the first page Rich stated.

Quote: "You can activate as many PCs as you like, there is no restriction. They *will* need to have an Internet connection though at the point at which they are activated - after that point you can disconnect them again. There isn't a "manual" work around for this, sorry - but the internet connection isn't something that needs to be always available - just when you activate.- Rich Davey"


So, unless I missed one of his posts I think that you'll be ok. The one caveat, was that each machine needs to be connected to the internet. Or, at least one would PC need to have an internet connection, and then use one of many methods to move it over to the second PC.

I hope this eases your mind. And to my knowledge Rich has not said otherwise.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 11:27
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I take it that each machine will need to be connected to the internet when starting the activation process - there wont be any files to move/copy or whatever.


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Bangla
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 12:08
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@zenassem & The Coding Area:
If that's true, I might as well throw in the towel then.
Might I even be so bold as to say that, with the new update/activation-system, "offliners" are not edgiable to the further development for DBP?

If I was schizo I'd turn to myself and say: - "Well... that's just to bad for you! Boho!" *waiting eagerly for result of poll*

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Mentor
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 12:36
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why the hell do we need online activation for a little bit of software like Pro?, am I missing something here?, like I can install lightwave or some multi thousand pound app with no problems from then on in, but install a £50 hobbyist language and you get a harder time than if you tried to merge Longhorn and Linux with OsX to run Amiga software, seems a bit silly, why not just provide a user id with each disk?, like the Blitz BUID for example, no id..no update, seems pretty foolproof, if someone was passing their DBSC (Dark Basic Security Code) around then you know who it is and it`s pretty easy to spot the guy who keeps downloading with code d45jds456jfthy678 3185 times a week, then you just block that user for good, just for example, I do a lot of writing on the other machine, and that has no net connection, not even a modem, what am I supposed to do?, buy a modem and wire it in just to activate DB?, there will be plenty of users who don`t or can`t activate online, just cos Microbrain do it doesn`t mean everyone has to.

Mentor.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 12:48
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Quote: "why not just provide a user id with each disk"

Because it would be easy to find out the equations to create the ID and then create your own. However, to get around that a database of all allocated IDs would need to be stored and then checked against those used during downloading, and prevent any that aren't in the list from downloading.
The other problem is the expense that this sort of thing creates.

Quote: "what am I supposed to do?"

Simple, create an internet sharing system...

Quote: "just cos Microbrain do it doesn`t mean everyone has to.
"

Its the best way - no need to enter any long numbers (unless your reactivating), quick, less prone to errors, each computer's code is unqiue and not easy to crack. Its the way forward...


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 16:33
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Quote: "why not just provide a user id with each disk?"


If only that were possible - but we're a little bit past the time to do that now don't you think?!!

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zenassem
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 18:13
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As Rich pointed out, there are many ways to network two computers. Although common, having an Ethernet NIC+router is not the only way. I believe Rich provided some examples.

Her are some more...
If you have *1* computer [PC 1] with a NIC+broadand and you *Don't* have a router:
If the second computer[PC 2] has a NIC:
Use a crossover cable (NUll MODEM). <peer to peer>. You can either $buy$ a crossover cable or you can turn an existig cat5 (straight throught) by cutting off one end, and swapping the (Orange & Orange/White) with (Green & Green/White) wires. Then crimping on a new RG45 end. Though if this was the case you probably would just connect the second computer to the cable/dsl modem or broadband switch.

If the [PC 2] computer *doesn't* have a nic:
but both computers have a Modem. Use a Null modem (crossover) between the two modems.

[c]Use the Serial (null modem cable) or Parallel port. Or if you have a laplink cable and [PC 2 is a laptop].

[d]Without knowing all the details I can't really say which other methods(some have been mentioned in this thread) will work, but a few that might.
- Thumb/pen/jump drive.
- USB external HD. PDA -> IR port, serial connection.
- Remove [PC 2's] HD, configure the jumper to be a slave, and configure the jumper on [PC 1's] HD to Master. Connect HD1 to HD2 via multiple socketed IDE cable (most PC's IDE cables come with at least 2 interfaces on the ribbon).

Please Note: I'm sure I made some mistakes in this post. I am just trying to offer ideas for methods that might help some people. I am also going form memory of the contents of many posts in this thread (I don't feel like reading the whole thing again), so I might be wrong in how the activation takes place. I believe that Rich said that it would be possible to copy over files somewhere. A little confusing because then I would imagine that you could just burn them to a CD to transfer. So I may indeed be missing something

If I am wrong, ***please be kind*** in letting me know. I don't profess to know TGC's activation scheme.

=====================================================================
My final suggestions/comments:
- It obviously too late, but the updates/and patches page should have been on a secure page that requires a login. (or for people who have forum membership a link to the latest updates could be provided in their user profile area). This way once a *USER* activated his/her product, they can download the patches freely. This makes sense since TGC is not intending on limiting the install ala Microsoft 1 machine per purchased Disc. Of course it introduces the possiblity that people will send the updates to others, but for the target number,based on sound statistics for this type o software / price/ usership/ that I believe TGC is expecting to activate, this method would have made the most sense. There will always be people who will try to cheat the system, and as such this is entered into the formula when trying to analyze authentic sales VS. distributed copies.

- Possibly TGC could implement a system that anyone who purchased or purchases from their site can automatically be authenticated. eg. Put a link to a secure page from the Users profile page. But this is unlikely. I think TGC is comfortable with the fact that most of their customers will have some form of internet connection for 1 PC or more. So that's what they are going to primarily address. And from a Business stand point that makes sense.

- Can't remeber whether or not I was forced to, but I needed to authenticate my version of LightWave to download patches, upgrades, free stuff. I think it's just the original off the CD install that doesn't require activation.

- I hope that this isn't going to extend into each and every product, enhancement, expansion in the TGC product line.


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Mussi
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 22:17
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I got a totaly unrelated question but it might be the best place to ask this as Rich is watching this thread .

why aren't there any get object ptr like commands? is this impossible or something? would be really handy if it was possible .



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zenassem
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 22:22
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Mussi, You can use pointers is DBpro, as well as pointers to Memblocks. Though I would start a new thread for this question.


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Mussi
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 23:03
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Quote: "Mussi, You can use pointers is DBpro, as well as pointers to Memblocks."


I know, but that has nothing to do with the question



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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 23:09
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Quote: "why aren't there any get object ptr like commands? is this impossible or something? would be really handy if it was possible "

Various bits like that will (hopefully) be added later...


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Mussi
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 23:35
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that would be so nice



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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 00:09
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Indeed...


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