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DLL Talk / TGC 2D Pack Ideas

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 03:12
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but how about TEXT OVER SPRITES!

"eureka" - Archimedes
French gui
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 21:04
Quote: "Don't know if this has been mentioned, but how about TEXT OVER SPRITES!
"


Yeah, at least that!!!!

My English is not so good I'm just French
dj chainz
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Posted: 11th Dec 2004 22:38
Is this actually going ahead? And when is pixel-perfect sprite collision going to be available??????????!!!!

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
I also have a blog on how to make a game engine
http://www.dbgame.blogspot.com
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Dec 2004 14:44
Quote: "Don't know if this has been mentioned, but how about TEXT OVER SPRITES!"

There has already been a way found to do this. Use paste sprite with a hidden sprite behind it for collision purposes.


Chenak
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 21:09
That doesnt work, the sprite is pasted behind 3d models, there in lies the problem... if i wanted to create an inventory for example, i would either have to make it from a 3d "plain" which is EXTREMLY annoying because you have to use guess work to place it where you want, on this you can use standard text.. OR use a sprite where you have no way to put text over it apart from using sprite text which is a whole new level of annoyance

sooo yes, if text over sprites was added i would be very very happy, as will a lot of people designing huds.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 05:21 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 13:07
Quote: "That doesnt work, the sprite is pasted behind 3d models, there in lies the problem"


It pastes it in front of the models on my system. Just like it would a sprite.



Chenak
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Posted: 16th Dec 2004 03:13 Edited at: 16th Dec 2004 03:29
hmm so i have to put paste sprite in the loop.. i guess that works.. but its still annoying, theres no reason why text has to be drawn behind normal sprites

edit: thanks by the way, saved me a lot of work
DrakeX
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Posted: 16th Dec 2004 10:49 Edited at: 16th Dec 2004 10:50
"What about photoshop-like blend modes - multiply, overlay, screen, luminosity and colour could be infintely useful to create new FX in 2D games. They run in realtime in most gfx packages - why not in a game?"

actually, that's what the GHOST OBJECT command does - sets the blend mode. there is no GHOST SPRITE command, however. would be nice.

"Do you have any idea when these 2D pack ideas will be put into an upgrade[pack]?"

my guess is "after P6." or, maybe, "when it's done."

"when it's done" means "we have no idea, we forgot to do that; we were hoping you would all forget we promised <insert exotic promise here>"
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 16th Dec 2004 12:15
Someone posted that text over sprite code a little while back. I cannot for the life of me find the post to give them credit though. I think DBP should include an option for text over sprites. I just don't think it should be part of a 2D pack. It should be native to DBP.

Philip 1337
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2004 00:35 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2004 00:36
Animated GIFs should be possible...

Load GIF Image Filename, Image Number, Texture Flag
Set GIF Image Loop On Image Number
Set GIF Image Loop Off Image Number
Set GIF Image Speed Image Number, Speed
Set GIF Image Size Image Number, width, height
Set GIF Image Transparency Image Number, colour value as dword



dj chainz
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 01:43
Quote: "Set GIF Image Transparency Image Number, colour value as dword"

this is a useless command, as GIFs have their own transparency channel.

Also, it would be better if animated GIFs were loaded into the "Animation" command set, rather than as a seperate type. That way there wouldn't have to be more commands.

I would also like a GHOST SPRITE command, as the blend modes would create quite cool, new 2D graphics.

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
I also have a blog on how to make a game engine
http://www.dbgame.blogspot.com
Chris K
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 02:41
Quote: "there is no GHOST SPRITE command, however. would be nice.
"


What's the difference between ghost sprite and set sprite alpha 1, 100 ?
dj chainz
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 04:29
Well, ghosting a sprite would allow different blend modes. If you've used photoshop or any other layer-based pixel editor, you will know that there are many many many ways to apply one image on top of another.

Using an alpha channel is only one - there are other mathematical operations that can create different pictures - "Add, subtract, multiply, screen, overlay" - to name a few.

Search the web to find out more about them, i dont have enought time or effort to list how they work here.

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
I also have a blog on how to make a game engine
http://www.dbgame.blogspot.com
Philip 1337
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Posted: 25th Dec 2004 05:52
@dj chainz
Quote: "this is a useless command, as GIFs have their own transparency channel."

Not all GIF files have there "own transparency channel"

Dot Merix
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Posted: 25th Dec 2004 07:15
By the way, i noticed someone said this pack would be free.. From what i've read, you will have to purchase the 2d pack, however.. They will give us the 2d pixel perfect collision part free... Not the additional commands however. That's how i've read into it atleast.



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Atreides
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Posted: 25th Dec 2004 14:45
my only idea : being able to draw image behind 3D objects and in front of them at the same time

The sleeper must awaken !
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 25th Dec 2004 17:09 Edited at: 26th Dec 2004 05:55
Actually you can. Look into the disable object zread command. Though it is picky and not exactly the best way to do it ... it does work until they give us something better. Just remember that the disable object zread gives priority by image numbers. The objects you want drawn behind others need to have the lowest image numbers.

[edit] for better example code. Hold the spacekey to make the plain draw like a normal object. With the spacekey not held it is drawn behind the sphere.



Tapewormz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2005 17:57
A hotspot command would be nice to adjust the hotspot for sprites. Currently, the hotspot for sprites is pixel 0,0 of the sprite or the top-left corner.

In AMOS there was a command that would let you adjust the HOTSPOT as they called it. You could position it anywhere inside or outside the sprite. That would be the coord that the sprite would paste at, rotate at, etc.

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2005 19:43
Wouldn't that be the same as offset sprite? Or am I understanding this HOTSPOT concept incorrectly?

dj chainz
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 06:56
It would as far as I can see, Lost in Thought.

Don't confuse the HOTSPOT here with weblinking hotspots. Those polygonal spots would be very very useful, now I think about it. You could set hotspots to follow sprites - mathmatical collision (better than pixel collision because less memory). Clickable-hotspots on menus, and you could use them in click-and-play games very easily. Hmmmm, seems a very good idea to me. Hope somebody makes some plugin like that. It would be instant 2D power......

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
I also have a blog on how to make a game engine
http://www.dbgame.blogspot.com
heartbone
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Posted: 6th Jan 2005 10:23 Edited at: 6th Jan 2005 10:24
Didn't someone promise "pixel perfect" sprite collision?

Actually sprite collision is "pixel perfect" by definition....
except in DarkBASIC "Professional".

This "pixel perfect" description for normal functionality is ridiculous.

How about calling it what it is, 'correctly implemented sprite collision'?

Could this be the year that this (hard to believe it still exists) problem gets fixed?

Any odds?

Peace, the anti-Bush.
dj chainz
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 00:30
I hope so! Pixel perfect... I mean 'correctly implemented' sprite collision, should be fixed!

If enough people want it, they'll make it. Everyone should vote for it in the "We're collecting your bugs" sticky in the DBPro discussion, as it may be soon that an upgrade-week is planned...

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
I also have a blog on how to make a game engine
http://www.dbgame.blogspot.com
It Wasnt Me
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Posted: 12th Jan 2005 23:03
Correctly implemented sprite collision!

If it was me, I wouldn't know it.
GSX R
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 07:49
Gravity code for sprites and good sprite vs backgound collision.
Cian Rice
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Posted: 1st Mar 2005 22:09
Just thought of something, labeling for internally made 2D objects like boxes, So you would do this :

Rather than:


This would allow for more things like changing the color of 2D Object with ease, and possibly, textureing 2d objects... Just a suggestion...

Why texture 2d objects? Resizing sprites can be annoying if your still learning, and although they are faster and more efficent it would be better for beginners like me if we could texture a box witha gradient so something like health bars could look nicer. But once again just an idea. Give the internally made 2D object commands like the 3D ones!

Have a heart and join my message board.And now my messageboards work again!Woot!
Daris Xiao or Benjy Wright
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Posted: 27th May 2005 00:38 Edited at: 27th May 2005 00:39
A kinda "2d matrix" for old-school RPG's and such would be nice.
Scrollbar system maybe? Pixel perfect collision. Oh! Loading a series of images as a font, so you could print with pretty-pretty letters, if that makes any sense...

EDIT: 'correctly implemented sprite collision' (In DBPro, why isn't it there already?)

Daris Xiao - Phonetic: Daris Shiao. aka: Benjy Wright.
1Ghz P3 - 512mb RAM - ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256mb Video
dj chainz
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Posted: 27th May 2005 01:17
Talk about reviving an old thread...

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
http://www.redsparkstudios.co.uk
Daris Xiao or Benjy Wright
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Posted: 27th May 2005 01:52
Oh... woah. didn't realize it was so old... lol.

Daris Xiao - Phonetic: Daris Shiao. aka: Benjy Wright.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 28th May 2005 05:30
It's a sticky!


Keaz
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 10:11
Yeah, the Gif as an animation thing is already in DBPro now.
What about the text over sprite thing? You can do the custom font thing with sprites already. But it would be easier built in, but you would need to be able to change the kerning or just default it to the width of the images used.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Xolatron old
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Posted: 30th Jul 2005 16:35
How about separating the string commands from the 2D ones, so that using functions like 'mid$(' don't force DirectX 2D to come into play?

With the string commands lumped in with BASIC2D and DISPLAY, it is impossible to make a simple app that will open a file and replace one word with another, without using the DirectX called by 2D.

-Xol

Neophyte
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 02:22
So is this still going to happen or not?
Hell Dragon
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 04:26 Edited at: 1st Nov 2005 01:35
(sorry for the off-topic)

when the 2DEP will be release?

Dot Merix
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Posted: 12th Nov 2005 08:13
This is taking quite awhile without anyone mentioning why it's taking so long... I'm very interested in knowing if there's any plans with this, dates would be greatly appreciated.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.01Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Bartman
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 06:32
Personally, I am astounded that DBPro has been 'tweaked' all the way to udgrade 5.9 and it still can't do Pixel perfect sprite collisions.

WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING? How can you have the gall to call the thing DB Professional.

AMOS Pro was able to do pixel perfect sprite collisions from V1.0 back in 1992/3?

Pixel Perfect Sprite Collisions isn't just a want or a need. It's a bare faced basic human right (for us bedroom programmers). Until Dark Basic can do an honest job of Sprite Collision detection I refuse to acknowledge it as a Professional product.

(PS. I love Dark Basic to bits.... you see I scald you because I love you so much and I want you to grow up to be the best you can be!)
Freddix
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 13:55
@Obiwan : I must remind you that Amiga and Atari has a COPro called "Blitter" hardware that calculate collision itself it's not a software based solution in AmosPro

If someone really want a "pixel perfect" collision for Sprites, I have a small routine I did that use 2 memblock to store the sprite image and calculate the collision. It's far to be the faster method but, it work. (until TGC release the official one for DarkBASIC Professional ) Contact me at freddbprojects@wanadoo.fr

@Daris Xiao or Benjy Wright : The bitmap font support will be available in the DarkBASIC Professional "extends" plugin I've made and that may be available in TGC website soonly

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
Bartman
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 01:54
Yes the AMIGA did do pixel perfect sprite collisions in hardware. However, I am still amazed that the AMIGA had a clock speed of a little over 7Mhz but todays 2/3Ghz processors still can't hide the work required to accomplish a pixel comparison of two images without us humans with a visual cortex clock speed of 30/40 fps noticing it.
So, DBPro might have to work a bit harder for what I/we want from it - but it's not like I'ts gonna be payed overtime for it's efforts, let's make it sweat!


Which leads me to another command for the 2D wish-lisht.

How about a command that can compare two bitmaps and report if they are identical or different.

This will be useful for:
~ Home grown sprite collision tests.
~ Movement detection tests for the Web Camera image support also comming soon to DBPro.
DaveC9000
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 02:37 Edited at: 24th Feb 2006 03:54
Okay I have a good idea, but it may be hard to explain.

I did this in C# once, and it looks fantastic if you do it right. I called them dynamically resized images. Check out the included image as I will refer to the numbered sections as I try to explain.

Normally if you take an image like the section 1 and resize it to a larger size you would get a blury mess like section 2. A better way to resize it would be to define four points within the image (such as the dots in section 3), which you could use along with the corners to define nine regions (shown in 3 and 4). The regions are extracted from the original image then resized in different ways. Section 4 shows the regions as colors. The green regions are not resized at all, as they are the corners. The red regions are scaled vertically, but not horizontally. The blue regions, in turn, are scaled horizontally but not vertically. The center is scaled both vertically and horizontally. You then take these six sections and paste them to an image (or the screen directly) to reassemble the image. You would end up with something like section 5. You could turn this concept into a dynamic resize command that would run like this:

Scale Image Dynamic TopLeft,TopRight,BottomLeft,BottomRight,newWidth,NewHeight

where Topleft, TopRight, BottomLeft, and BottomRight are the four required anchor points entered like texture coordinates.

This method works great for ui images. I've even made a whole ui using just that tiny red image there.

I hope that made sense. It would be great if you could put something like that in the plugin, as I haven't tried to convert my code do DBPro yet.

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DaveC9000
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Posted: 24th Feb 2006 02:38
Okay wrong image...let me try that again.

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Freddix
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Posted: 25th Feb 2006 13:03 Edited at: 25th Feb 2006 13:11
@Obiwan : I can include that kind of command in an update for Extends plugin but that kind of commands can be slow, especially if bitmaps are bigs.(I take the liberty to ask that kind of things because Rich said me that no 2D packs are actually planed to be released by TGC (maybe later but no actually ) )

@DaveC9000 : If you want, you can send me the code and I'll try to convert it to TPC plugin

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
dj chainz
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 22:12
@Obiwan : I just made such a command in a plugin, tis quite fast. 20 800x600 checks in 1235ms @ 1.7ghz. It is MUCH faster when there is a change (It cycles through each image 200 pixel gaps, 100pixel gaps and then checks the entire thing.) This is probably going to be part of a red spark studios dll pack thing, so you can't have it yet...

I am the lead programmer at red spark studios
http://www.redsparkstudios.co.uk
Duffer
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Posted: 4th Apr 2006 21:23
@ All & Richard - so, looking at the threads as a whole - is there anything approaching a pixel perfect collision dll for DBPro yet>? and what is the verdict of the TGC on the 2D Add On Pack content...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Sergey K
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Posted: 19th Apr 2006 01:50
how about making new format for images (just like DBO for objects)
.DBI format (DarkBasic Image)
where you can save lots of images togeather and only dbp will be able to load it to make it more secure and stuff..
also, pixel perfect will be v. nice if that format will support

MyNewSite:http://gogetax.com
Forums(About BLO and more):http://gogetax.com/forum
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 2nd May 2006 06:41 Edited at: 2nd May 2006 06:44
Why not vector sprite collision? That is, define a filled vector shape that recieves the collision instead of the actual sprite pixels on screen. It would be faaaast.

Whether or not that's done, I think that normal, optional pixel perfect sprite collision should be included. I use memblock code to do it just fine, but I don't see what that can't be included. Just add a new command, use at your own risk of slowing crap down. Pixel sprite collision is simply not going to be fast, but many of the purely 2D commands aren't anyway.

Here's how I use it...
Quote: "if sprite visible(gumps(gump).sprites) then if sprite collision(arrows(game.arrow).hotspot,gumps(gump).sprites) then if pixelcol(arrows(game.arrow).hotspot,gumps(gump).sprites) "


My mouse hotspot is 1x1. I only perform that collision if the sprite is visible and if the sprite bounding box has collided with the hotspot. Very fast and very useful.



Come see the WIP!
Freddix
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Posted: 11th May 2006 10:59 Edited at: 11th May 2006 11:46
duffer : if you want my "perfect pixel collisions" that work only on sprites that are : unfiltered + not stretched + not rotated, send me an e-mail

@Cash : I've done a "perfect pixel collisions" in a 2 times checking function. It firstly check if sprites rounding boxes collide. if it's the case, you have 2 choices :
1 / Fatest detect collision and return 1 when a collision pixel is detected
2 / Slower ( but good for Operation Wolf style game ) count the amount of pixels that collide.
of course, the collision type is choosen by a flag in the function

I've incorporated my system in my plugin Extends to gain some speed up :p having the command in TPC plugin


I've checked speed with my system.
On my Athlon XP 2800+ (2.0Ghz) + Radeon 9600 Pro 256Mb AGP
I get these results with 2 sprites.
Sprite 1 : 32x16 pixels
Sprite 2 : 32x32 pîxels

DarkBasic Professional CODE :
Pixel Collision Only : 1911 fps
Pixel Collision + Pixel Count : 677 fps
PlugIN Extends (PureBasic ) :
Pixel Collision Only : 2149 fps
Pixel Collision + Pixel Count : 1685 fps

I think my system is fast enough for Shoot'em'up games :p

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
Bartman
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Posted: 12th May 2006 05:25
@Freddix :
- What is your Extends PlugIN?
- Does it contain other functions as well as the sprite collisions?
- Where or how can I get ahold of it to use myself?


Plus. A tip for anyone using this type of function with a stretched or rotated sprite.
All you need to do is save each of the stretched/rotated image(s) before the game starts. This has to be done before the game starts because if you try to do it on-the-fly your image will invariably have been drawn over some kind of backdrop which obviously shouldn't be saved as part of the stretched/rotated image.
Saving the image before the game starts gives you the oportunity to stretch/rotate the image, paste it onto a blank screen then save the new stretched/rotated image(s).
The reason for this is that the function uses the ORIGINAL sprite image in the collision test and not the stretched or rotated image you see on the screen.

PS. Thanks for the great work on helping us all with pixel collisions Freddix.
Freddix
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Posted: 13th May 2006 15:20
@Bartman : Extends is a DarkBASIC Professional's TPC Plugin Developped in PureBASIC. This plugin contain many function.here is the Extends WIP post :
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=68778&b=8.
It may be released by TGC at the same period than PhysX plugin.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
Bartman
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 09:37
What? We have to pay an extra AUS$45 for the extends plugin to make Dark Basic Pro, PROFESSIONAL!

For me, it's an extra AUS$45 just to get Pixel Perfect Sprite Collisions? - That's all I want/need from the Extends plugin.

Isn't Pixel Perfect Sprite Collisions something that should have been a feature of Dark Basic PROFESSIONAL from the start, not something you have to pay an extra FORTY FIVE bucks for!

Na! I'm dirty about this TGC. Pixel Perfect Sprite Collisions should have been a part of the 6.x upgrade, not a way to slug us for another bunch of $$$$ for something DBPro should natively support. Shame. Shame. Shame.
Bartman
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 10:15
Hey Freddix,

No disrespect meant to you, and no negativity meant towards your excellent extends plugin which contains many commands obviously wanted and needed by other users.

I am just dirty that the TGC DBPro upgrade 6.x does not finally fix the issue of Pixel Perfect Sprite Collisions. After all it is called Dark Basic PROFESSIONAL!

Cudos to you Freddix, for coming up with a solution to the issue of Pixel Perfect Sprite Collision Detection, and I urge anyone who can't live without it at the moment to buy your Plugin. Personally, I just can't justify it at the moment for the one command I needed (money problems) but that's just me.
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 19:07
you know, it is a really complex work to achive to do perfect pixel collision with DirectX9.0+ because Sprites are now 3D objects (and no more 2D stuffs)
I implemented a solution that is 100% with no rotation/scaling and approx 99% perfect with rotation/scaling cos I must recalculate each pixel of the sprite for collisions and fpu are not perfect (with single precision mode).
TGC didn't implemented perfect pixel collision because it was too complex to achieve it with 100% acurate for all cases. I did a "rescue" solution that is not the most fast but that work.

I understand that you are unhappy with the fact that DarkBASIC Professional does not cnotain "perfect pixel collision" from itw own but, if you try to understand how the video card and DirectX9 works, you'll understand why TGC didn't implemented it from the beginning.

Now, if you are only interested by this command, I understand that you mustn't buy the plugin. Cos the plugin is not only sprite collision.
at beginning, sprite collision wasn't planed in eXtends but, I managed to make a small good routine for that so, I decided to include it for the benefit of eXtends users

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

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