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Code Snippets / What is this shape? 3D? 4D?

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Moggie100
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Posted: 5th Jan 2003 23:15
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Look at this, (it should run on DBC and DBP) and tell me how many dimensions this has. (requires no other files)


Rem Project: Megatetahydran
Rem Created: 27/10/02 17:04:35

Rem ***** Main Source File *****

cls
sync on : sync rate 100
backdrop on : color backdrop RGB(0,0,0)

newx=rnd(640)
newy=rnd(480)
newx1=rnd(640)
newy1=rnd(480)
newx2=rnd(640)
newy2=rnd(480)
newx3=rnd(640)
newy3=rnd(480)
newx4=rnd(640)
newx4=rnd(480)

xval=rnd(1)
yval=rnd(1)
xval1=rnd(1)
yval1=rnd(1)
xval2=rnd(1)
yval2=rnd(1)
xval3=rnd(1)
yval3=rnd(1)
xval4=rnd(1)
yval4=rnd(1)

movex=2
movey=2

do
if newx>640
xval=0
endif
if newx480
yval=0
endif
if newy640
xval1=0
endif
if newx1480
yval1=0
endif
if newy1640
xval2=0
endif
if newx2480
yval2=0
endif
if newy2640
xval3=0
endif
if newx3480
yval3=0
endif
if newy3640
xval4=0
endif
if newx4480
yval4=0
endif
if newy4
Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 5th Jan 2003 23:40
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whoops! try again.

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 00:04
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4d? I don't think so. The 4th dimension is time. So to answer your question its 3d.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Darklight
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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 19:35
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Any 3 dimensional representation of a Nth dimensional object such as a hypercube is merely that : A shadow of the original form. Any 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional object is again just a shadow of the original form (see Flatlander Thought Experiment). Technically since this is all on a flat screen, it's no more than 2 dimensions.

When someone actually writes a dll for Darkbasic to project holograms, let me know!! heh

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Moggie100
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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 22:15
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Easily confused - trying again!

Brent_Seraphim - if the 4th dimention is time, then surely any shape exists in 4 dimentions else it doesnt exist at all!

Darklight - Time, therefore anything displayed on a computer screen is in 4 dimentions, since energy is matter, and light=energy=matter so therefore the light from the screen is projecting into the 3rd dimention, and because it exists it occupis the 4th dimention (time) as well, else you wouldnt be able to see it

Anyhoo, here goes again



I have a feeling this aint gonna work either lol, but what the hey

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Moggie100
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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 22:16
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woo! it worked

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 01:22
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Dang Moggie
Yes E=mc Squared. Energy is equal to mass times C(speed of Light) squared. We view things in 3 dimensions. From what I've read The 4th dimension is mainly used to decern when an event takes place. But since everything is unforutnaletly
'relative", so is time. And yeah good point, the screen we see displays in only 2d..height and width. However it can accurately simpulate the 3rd, to an extent. Ah heck...4d. Its 3d but I'm experiencing it in time.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Kensupen
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 07:39
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Well, if you wanna get all technical, it's 2d cause it's on a CRT/LCD. If it existed in "real" space, it would be a changing/morphing 3D shape.

-Kensupen
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cybersamurai
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 07:39
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Yay Discussions on Dimensions of the space time continuem.

1st: a place, (no width or height)
2nd: line (length and width but no height)
3rd: cube (length, width, and height) what that image is
4th: time as brent said (a sequence of events)
5th: 3rd + 4th the dimensions we live in
6th: That of which is not under the constraints of the previous dimensions (complete freedom) *wrote a 2 page poem about that which won an award*
7th: Nothing (which sparks my favorite question "What is nothing?")

just my 2 sense of non sense probally way of the actual topic of this post, but hey, who cares

cybersamurai

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cybersamurai
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 17:05
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Hehe, that shut yall up

Rusty Gears
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 19:43
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all i'm thinking of is what a nice screen saver the pattern would make

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 21:13
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Ok then, answer this ,1 Dimension is X, 2 Dimension is X+Y, 3D is X+Y+Z. Whats 4D? i dont think u understand. A dimension is not time, but an axis of coords'

xxxpetratxxx
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cybersamurai
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 23:31
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Time is a dimension, it can be measured and therefore has dimensions

Rusty Gears
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 23:31
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Well... how the hell can we know what the 4th dimension is? 5th? 6th? 7th? There is no real way to tell.

Anyway, the graphic on the screen is a representation of a morphing 3 Dimensional object. It's verticies move in an uncommon way, creating an optical illusion that defy's logic. But it's still 3D.
So there

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 23:34
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and it looks even more unconvincing when you uncomment the lines involving circles.
It is a cool effect though

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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The Darthster
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Posted: 9th Jan 2003 00:11
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Try thinking about multidimensional arrays. Dim dimensions(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8...). They are quite hard to visualise, and code.
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indi
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Posted: 9th Jan 2003 08:23
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u can think of a bookshelf with 5d arrays also

imagine

what shelf
what book
what page
what row
what colum

I made a snippet to demonstrate this on my site.

I have never fathomed anything above the 4th dimension so if someone has a definition of 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 id love to hear it.

String theory or Pringle theory becomes the only two options that the major scientists seem to attach themselves to one or the other.

anything on the screen is a representation of light to mimic 2d or 3d.

light has mass therefore u could prove it hard to identify the 2nd dimension let alone the 1st.

3rd and 4th are tangable but 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th and beyond makes no sense.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 9th Jan 2003 12:30
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ok, i'm officially lost

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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Moggie100
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 18:27
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LOL! I never knew that this post would get like this!

Anyhoo, if time isnt a dimention, then what would you classify it as? I put it under a dimention due to the fact that you can move around in it in 3 dimentions, as is explained below.

1D - if it is possible (in theory) for you to move left+right only, u're in 1D

2D - if it is possible (in theory) for you to move left+right+forwards+backwards only, u're in 2D

3D - if it is possible (in theory) for you to move left, right, forwards, backwards, up, and down only, then u're in 3D

4D - if it possible to move in any direction in any of the above, but cou can actually do it, and see the effect u're in 4D --> Time

Time can be a dimention because you can see any of the lower dimentions from the upper one, ie:

1D can see only 1D
2D can see 1 & 2D
3D can see 1,2 & 3D
4D can.... (u get the idea)

So for us to do anything in 3D we need to be in 4D, therefore proving that no-one can exist (in this universe) in a dimentions lower than 4D, because if you cont exist in time, then u dont exist at all, even if you were to exist everywhere at once, you would not be traveling through time so therefore would not able to acknowlage the existance of yourself, or any other being because thoughs happen in a logical order 1--->2--->3--->etc. for any thought stream to progress you would need to move through time, unless of course if you thoght of everything at once, but even then, that 1 point in space/time, you would exist in the 4th dimention.

ouch, my fingers hurt

also, since hexgear brought it up, it would make a nice screensaver. Now, how the hell do I do that, lol!

Ps. would you beleive this all came origionally from a bit of code for a bouncing ball that I came up with, LOL!

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Moggie100
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 18:37
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oops, hit post too soon lol

Rapcat - the lines for circles are the remmnants from the old bounding ball code, in face if u remove these lines:

------------------------------------
line newx,newy,newx1,newy1
line newx1,newy1,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx3,newy3
line newx1,newy1,newx3,newy3
line newx2,newy2,newx3,newy3
line newx4,newy4,newx,newy
line newx4,newy4,newx1,newy1
line newx4,newy4,newx2,newy2
line newx4,newy4,newx3,newy3
------------------------------------

and unrem the circles u get a screen of bouncing balls

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UberTuba
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 18:58
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Time isn't a dimension, merely an illusion. If time were truly a dimension, it could not be bent, alla time dilation. and it would be possible to travel back in it. Also there are officially 13 dimensions, but that is, in my opinion, a load of s@*$!!!

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 19:43
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LOL, yes Moggie. This is great isn't it? I'm sorry for starting this maddness. We've seen some good discussion on Dimensions. . Just great. Moggie could you repost your code? Thank God we exist in space-time. And darkfluff, your last post holds true,somewhat. Time as explained in today's theories and Einstein is rather fickle isn't it? Darn thing has to be relative..why couldn't it have been politically correct and been the same for everybody regardless if their under the influence of extreme gravity or close to C. However time is defined as a dimension. However a dimension is probably not the best label for it, since it does not really 'flow' or 'move' or exist in a spatial direction.

BTW 13? Holy &$%# Could you list those bad boys for us?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 19:46
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Wait I didn't start this...I said time first but you....Moggie....you said 4d....

:icks up Phaser and takes aim::

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Revolution
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 19:46
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Time is a dimension, is is just u can only go fawards through it. Think of it like a one way street, you can only go fawards unless u brake the law. this is the same for time but the law of the universe is a lot harder to brake.
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k0shi
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:24
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there is a new program out now, i was going to make and patent. i forgot what its called, but if you have ever seen 1 of those 3d books or watch a 3d movie with those glasses that make everything 3d you know what im talking about , they now have it so that comp game can become 3d also its so cool almost life like.

What you give is what you get.
.....:::<>-<K0shi>-<>:::.....
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k0shi
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:35
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its a $100 but i think its worth it

What you give is what you get.
.....:::<>-<K0shi>-<>:::.....
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Bogboy2000
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:41
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4D is not time

1D a location, e.g. on the x axis
2D a flat object, e.g. a sprite on a screen
3D an object with width, height, and depth e.g. a cube
4D (hard to explain)...

objects in 4D have similar objects touching each of their sides.

so you have a cube in the middle with six other cubes touching each side (fairly simple).

it gets complicated when each of the six secondary objects are touching each others sides as well.

just imagin that each letter is a cube because you can't draw cubes on a forum and it would be in practice impossible to draw them correctly, but not in theory

A B C D E F G

each face of A is touching each face of B,C,D,E,F,G,H and I
each face of B is touching each face of A,C,D,E,F,G,H and I
each face of C is touching each face of A,B,D,E,F,G,H and I

and so on

this makes for an object which is rathar difficult to draw
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Bogboy2000
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:42
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sorry thats

each face of A is touching each face of B,C,D,E,F,and G
each face of B is touching each face of A,C,D,E,F,and G
each face of C is touching each face of A,B,D,E,F,and G
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 21:42
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Um...BogBoy...have you every seen a "4d Modelling package" or something? Do have the slightest idea about what we were discussing?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Bogboy2000
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 12:23
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nope i've never seen a 4D modeling pakage because 4D objects are too complicated to draw, a 4D object could not exist in time and space but 4D is an object and not time

yup i know what your discussing!

what 4D is spawned from Moggie100s code snippet
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 17:08
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Riigggghhhhtttt... ... ... ....

Anyway Moggie could you post that code again?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Moggie100
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 17:44
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Brent_Seraphim - sure here it is

The origional:



The 'bouncing ball' variation on it



And here's a little something that uses the bouncing code



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MattIsFun
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 20:08
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Time can be measured in dimensions. Computer programs always move forward along the "time axis" because we really have no point to them moving backwards and humans have no control as of yet over movement in the 4th dimension.

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rapscaLLion
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How the hell can you know what the 4th, 5th etc dimensions are? How can we know they exist? If all the previous dimensions deal with geometry, WHY would time be the 4th?
There is no way to prove any of it.

Alex Wanuch
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 21:53
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Chill my friend. The idea that Time is the forth dimension comes from Einsteins theories of Relativity and his Theory of Special Relativity. He invisioned time not as a axis but as a way to record an event, he also labeled it as a dimension becasue it can speed up, slow down..or stop completely depending upon an entities mass, speed or it's proximity to a strong gravitational object. In to your question "How can we know they exist? things Einstein proposed such as gravity not being a force but a displacement of space it's self, were at first thought of as been insane. Later they were proven. His theories of what happens when one approaches relavilistic speeds(anything near the speed of light) were thought insane because he proposed the time-dilation effect and that time was completely relative. These things are hard to swallow and even harder to believe. However they have been proven. Just the other day scienctis proved another piece of Einsteins theory. They proved (it was in the news section of yahoo.com) that the effects of gravity travel at the speed of light. And to answer your other question "If all the previous dimensions deal with geometry, WHY would time be the 4th?" why you ask....because thats the way its been for about 80 years since we've had the Theory of Relativity. Just because its the first time you have heard of this 4th dimension doesnt mean you should question it out of ignorance. I am not insulting you. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Everybody is ignorant of something, everybody.
Here a few sites you might want to look into

http://www.bartleby.com/173/

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/General_relativity.html

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/GenRelativity.html

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/relativity.html

Ok enough...I've said my piece. Anybody can say "How can we know for sure?!" well we can't see the wind, but we can feel it's effects and study it. So Moggie..damn fine job on some whacko coding, you should ask more question like this its makes for some fun discussion and mabye a lilbit' of flamebait. I now don a flame-retardent jumpsuit and await the flames.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Bogboy2000
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 21:57
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OK i'll lay it out strait

for most people there are 4 dimentions, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th(being time)

in mathematics, however, there can be infinate number of dimentions with 4D as an object, like i said erlier, wich leave time as X dimention because it could be any thing

finaly, when physasists look at all the visible matter in the universe i.e. stars and plnets, they decided that there is not enough matter to allow the univers to act in the way it does.

One solution to this is "Dark matter" which is there but you can't see it.

Another solution is, is that there are super strings (don't ask, cos i don't know enough to tell), which would require another dimention to exist in i.e. the 4th dimention
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 22:03
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D*mn Straight

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Bogboy2000
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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 22:12
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absolutly, (just about)

sorry that was as strait as i could get it
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Moggie100
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 00:55
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And the post goes on..................

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.
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Moggie100
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Posted: 13th Jan 2003 01:01
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AHA!

Something has just come to me!

(no not in a dream, fool.)

Considering that time is the 4th dimention then.....

THIS POST EXISTS IN 4D!

Just a thought.

O and btw.

If we keep this up, at this rate, this post will soon rival the "I'm listening to" post in general

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.
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Benjamin
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I have 1 theory so stop F*ck*ing saying that the 4th dimension is time!!

Firstly, we know about these dimensions:
1) Left, right (Y)
2) Left, right, up, down, (Y,X)
3) Left, right, up, down, forward, backward, (X,Y,Z)

[/u]Theory about the 4th:[/u]
Each dimension allows movement on a certaint axis.

Maybe the 4th dimension allows moving between wether the object is being there or not. Visibility, fading, ghost..!

Now some people say that ghosts are 4D because they can move through objects, and when they want they can touch them. Now, perhaps the 4th dimension is like visibilty, it controls how much something is there. Much like a 'Ghost on' and (Ghost off). This is more of a 'Slider' than an axis but could still be the 4th dimension.

Time is not a dimension, it is like...well it cant be explained. Lets see what this universe is made of:

Matter+Dimensions (things that are controled by each dimension)
Time (?)
Non-Matter/Anti-Matter (4D?)

So thats how I think it is. But then, just because you cant see something, is it there or not?...

Now, a non-matter cant be made of dimensions, because it doesnt exist. Time cant be made of dimensions, because it doesnt exist.

Time can be recorded, but only at our pace. If you say that the 4th dimension is time, then you are wrong.

Maybe the 4th dimension controls the others..
........

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 02:23
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xxxpetratxxx: Your last post was too sweet to pass up I about died laughing..OMG...breath. How ignorant are you? Go back up to my other post and READ. And just remember Mr. "So thats how I think it is" LOL, in your case thinking could be deadly! Go outside and scream with all your might "THE SKY IS GREEN!" maybe one day it will just go Poof! Until then don't talk if you have no idea what your talking about. Please...but we all need a laugh here and there. Anyway go read! Learn! ...graduate High School...
And dont make unintelligable conjecture about subjects you can't comprehend!


Ok, sorry...I gave blood earlier today...and I'm rather moody. Forgive me Petrat...I needed that. Flame me if you wish. Throw more "The whole scientific community is wrong, why? becasue I say so!" at me...sorry I'm going off again.
*Breaths deeply* ....*Breaths Deeply*
Good Night/Day and forgive me if I've offended you.
Perhaps we should just use this as an attempt to flame each other?
So whats up?

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Skyone
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 05:40
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the 4th dimension is time,

Code of the Week: Moving an object back.
If Downkey()=1 then Move object x,-10
x=Object Number
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 06:06
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God Bless you SKYONE! **Bows respectfully**

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 19:50
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I found this site while doing a project on the 4th dimension for school...

http://www.alkaline.org/4thdim/

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 17th Jan 2003 19:59
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The 4th dimension isnt necceceraly time. It depends how you are looking at it. The 4th dimension is only a name, nature hasnt named it 'the 4th dimension', nor has nature named it 'time', some people could argue that time is something that you eat with eggs and they could be correct - "what's in a name, for a rose by any other name would smell as sweet", romeo and juliet (something along those lines anyway). The 4th dimension can also be another spatial dimension like the 1st 2nd and 3rd. In the '4th dimension' you would be able to travel 3 ways (x,y,z and w axis), just like in 2d you can only travel 2 ways (x and y). Most of you should know this from working with db and programming. I think it was einstein that said time was the 4th dimension or someone like that, because he believed that it too was a spatial dimension because things change over time aswell as moving through space or something like that.

Oh well, enough with the science lesson, the 4th dimension can be time or another spatial one, it depends what you like to call them, (the 4th dimension in arabic probably means f**k all).

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 01:42
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LoL interesting.It was Einstein that said that yes. Thanks for bring intelligent remarks and not saying..."So thats how I think it is". So I wonder if this is sharpening our DB skillz in some way?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 03:10
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Hamish McHaggis is the closest ive seen to getting the truth correct...

Anyway, im glad you found my post funny, I just wish u were mature enough to know what i was talking about.

'enculler!' if thats how you spell it. well thats how you say it! DONT FUCKING ARGUE WITH MY FRENCH TOO!!

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 05:27
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I'm not here to argue about your French, I'm here to laugh.
Well lets see what our friend Petrat (fitting) said:

"Maybe the 4th dimension allows moving between wether the object is being there or not. Visibility, fading, ghost.."

Hmmm interesting...ghost have their own dimension.Sweet!...
thats just lame...

"Time is not a dimension, it is like...well it cant be explained"

First...um where have you been for the past 80 years? Listen to Skyone...and if you can't explain it...don't try.
That might have been rather harsh; Time itself is rather hard to fathom 'bottled down' to physics use. I don't think anyone could come up with a defintion that couldn't be contested in some way..so here's one from the dictionary:

A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.
An interval separating two points on this continuum; a duration:

These came from : [url]www.dictionary.com[/url]


"Matter+Dimensions (things that are controled by each dimension)
Time (?)
Non-Matter/Anti-Matter (4D?)"

Now if you really want to get technical, Dimensions are a human concept and we exist in absolute nothingness. Time (?)
...you said it didn't exist in the next sentence...

"So thats how I think it is. But then, just because you cant see something, is it there or not?..."

Thinking could be deadly watch out!!! The last sentence works both ways bub

"Non-Matter/Anti-Matter (4D?)"

Ok wtf? Non-matter? Its either Energy or Matter...Anti-matter(4d?)... Ok anti-matter(4d?)??..Guess your trying to tie that back to the invisible ghost thing right? WRONG! Antimatter is perfectly legal buddy. Scienctist have created it in labs. All Anti-matter is is matter with 'the' opposite charge of normal matter. Like a negative proton.

And Mchaggis spoke many a true **thanks him**
"the 4th dimension can be time or another spatial one"

Yep yep...Just like our x and y's, so much in fact the "time variable" can be precieved as zero or infinity.
Anywayz back to me making fun of everything Pet Rat has said.

"Maybe the 4th dimension controls the others.."

Consistency. Please. Great thought...Might as well go ahead and call Time a dimension cuz its value changes...0-Infintiy... But if you want to believe the sky is green and Time controlls the others...errrr right.


Well I hope you have enjoy my last post Pet Rat. I do sincerly await your next rebuttal. And I do ask you please.
go to yahoo.com and type in "relativity' or something of that nature and read. I listed a few really good url's earlier. I not here to force science on you. do with it what you will. Ok I've said my piece and I plan not to respond after your rebuttal Petrat. (I shouldn't need to anyway....Seeing as of late). So Good Morning/Night.

Live long and prosper

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 19:33
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Ok. Well, im glad that someome laughed at that coz I know that its a lot of crap but...well.....its not mine
This programmer says it on his one of his webpages. its something like www.rw100.net/4D.php

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
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