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Code Snippets / What is this shape? 3D? 4D?

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 21:56
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Ahh hell PetRat, forgive me. I'm tired of this. Never again will I flame you. May you see many a moon, and while your at it forge a gaming empire and make Bill Gates your bitch!


Later (and hopefully the end of this post.)

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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indi
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 10:55
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lol

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Jetmech
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 02:32
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Time is just like any other axis
left - right
forward - backward
up - down
future - past

heck, you can even see (events?, objects?) along its axis... if I look at a star, Im seeing what it was billions of years ago... Just because we can only percieve to move forward in time doesnt mean it doesnt go both ways!

0d - a point in space with no length,hieght, or width
1d - length
2d - length + hieght
3d - length + width + hieght
4d - length + width + hieght + time

however an object in any dimension could occupy space along any of that dimensions axis's
wich would mean an object in the 4th dimension could occupy space in the past and future at once
however all we would be able to see in the 3d world is the part of the object visible at the time your looking at it.

ie.. put a cube in a 2d world and it would look like a square. ( or a line if your looking at it from within the 2d World)

..... wow, thats deep

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Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 03:59
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Yeah. I agree that time is a dimension, but, is it the fourth one? there could be others..

xxxpetratxxx
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 06:41
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Unforunately we humans suck to the extent that we can only percieve 3 completely. We have an idea of the only other dimension we can percieve which is time. Which brings the grand total to 4. If there's more we're too limited to percieve them. That sucks...

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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gbuilder
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 21:18
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Ok, I'll add something about the 4th Dimension.
Much respect to Einstein but I say the Fourth Dimension is 'Imagination'.

gbuilder.

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 22:04
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Err....not again. Glad to have....your input.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Revolution
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 22:32
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If the 4D is not time then what is it? if our world was only 2d then we would have no idea of the 3rd dimention and we might say that it was time.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 21st Jan 2003 02:01
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Ok ok...this is getting repetitive...After 50+ post about the same subject ignorant post and still popping up. People ask why is time a dimension? Its considered and USED as another axis in higher levels of math and phsyics...theories about it are testable and such. People say "Ok times a dinemsion by how do we know its the 4th? Well why do we call mars the 4th planet from the sun and not the 7th or so on? Because first we KNEW we had 3 dimesions...then our friend Relativity came in and said "HEY time's a dimension....thanks..." So logicially we assigned it the next available opening. Why would we call the first dimension the 6th or whatnot? Its just logical. And for whats it worth Einstein himself said "Imagination is more important than knowledge." But please lets not place humanity on a high-chair and say our imagination is so powerful that we should bump father time off a dimensional axis. Great thought...but after 50+ post on the subject my patience wears thin...

Rock on Revolution!

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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regujka
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2003 21:03
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please send me the shader examples: regulyistvan@hotmail.com

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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 01:11
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actauly time doesnt exist so it cant be a deminsion gravity is the 4th dimension and the fifth is a sort of negative gravity called dark energy which makes up the vacuum of space

Also Known As The Arctic Fox A Warrior Of Treacherous Skills
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 01:17
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each dimension is affected by the one that preceeds it therfore we live in the 5th dimension or so

Also Known As The Arctic Fox A Warrior Of Treacherous Skills
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 03:03
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Ok...this is getting annoying...first what hole did you crawl out of? How stupid or ignorant are you? Did you read the other 50+ post? Time doesn't exist? Really....right....
are you 5 or 6 years old? Gravity is the 5th dimension? Really...no you dumbass..Gravity is the curvature of space...nothing more...READ A HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS BOOK. Gravity is not a dimension axis...oh wait you didn't thing we were talking about...length,width...heigth...look if you have no idea what your talking about then "its better to keep your mouth shut and REMAIN AN IDIOT then open your mouth and remove all doubt." Come on GRavity...a dimension...I dont visually percieve gravity...maybe others do after they smoke some crack. Gravity is refered to as a force because it's effects directly act upon the victim in question. Since when did it become a dimensional axis? Could you please post your resources? Don't say you got it from an acid trip, or some geocitieswebiste...or even Star Trek.(God bless that ol' show)

Look your sorta new here...Sorry if I offended you. Take science and do what ever you will with it. Don't reply unless you have a source...or a brain. Please.

Once again I humbly ask you to forgive me if I have offended you, but understand I meant every word I said.

Good Day/Night.

BTW...dark enery is the vacumn of space...Space is a void you dumbarse.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 06:14
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Ok, Indi, I have a request of you. Could you please delete this topic? Unforunately it has been blown way of course. And most of the blame is mine, me and my stubborness. This post is a waste of effort and is not longer useful. And at the same time it has brought my opinion of humanity to a new all time low. Forgive me for adding fuel to the fire and kill this post. Please.

Thank you.

Live long and prosper.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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gbuilder
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 11:16
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Brent,
Try taking a deep breath... You sound like you have Zen..ed yourself.
The Fourth Dimension doesn't have to be Time, but it can be. If you imagine it to be..Hehe

gbuilder

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 17:10
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Hehe, Why thank you....breathing...breathing...
There thats better, I'm gonna go use my 'Imagination'.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 17:45
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I didnt mind petrat saying what he thiught the 4th dimension might be. He was just speculating (or repeating someone elses speculating). Stuff would never get found out if no one had imagination. I think it was also einstein that said "Imagination is more important than knowledge", am I right? Anyway, this post was fun!!

Yum! Yum! Yum! Yum!
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 23:11
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Yeah heh, I touched on the Einstein quote earlier and it's true. Very true. This post has been fun...I guess. Sorta got me in a flame'n mood. I would hope that this post would end soon. Like NOW.

Rock on, Rock off what ever floats yer boat.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 00:31
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ok dushbag i read a NEW physics book what are you a geneass right then einstein said that time doesnt exist a definable existence its only a measurement the rotation of the sun therfore time is only an idea also you said gravity isnt an axis right neither is time queer oh you dont visualy percieve gravity nither do u percieve time and the first 2 dimensions oh and the vacuum of space is a void ok all space contains matter or a force so obviosly the only vacuum u touch is used for !@#$%^&*() so you didnt offend me u wrote b4 u thought and made yourself look like an ass so get a grip READ A DAMN PHYSICS JOURNAL YOUR SO 100 YEAR BEHIND i love science whoooo

Also Known As The Arctic Fox A Warrior Of Treacherous Skills
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 02:13
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Yes!! Flamebait! hmm this is tasty.
Where to begin..considering everything you wrote is jumbled..Where typing with one hand or something? Maybe you shouldn't be surfing stuff like that. Anyway back to subject at hand.

1. Could by any chance retype that stuff? What book is this? Perhaps you could provide a quote. Where did the thing about "only a measurement the rotation of the sun" come from? Yes time is only an idea. Its a word, dumbarse. Words serve as the proxy for an idea.

2. In your third line of Jumbo mess(no better word to describe it) you said "Gravity isnt an axis right neither is time queer oh you don't bisualy perieve gravity nither do u percieve time." Where argeeing with me that gravity is not a dimension? Or not? I can't really tell. And we percieve time. Very slowly off course. Have you ever heard of Time Dilation? Its been proven. So if time doesn't exist how can they prove it? Einstein himself put forth the idea of Time Dilation, so how can he say Time doesn't exist?

3. Space is not a void. Well I will give it to you, to are right all space contains either matter or a force(Gravity...yeah Gravity is a force..not a dimension, dumbarse)

Well your message was quite an expierence, to say the least. Tell what where you smoking or surfing? Oh come on...in your last message you said the 5th dimension was negative gravity or dark energy. Negative gravity is extrememly hypothecical. It would need exotic matter to exist. And well, Scienctist have never encountered it before. I'm glad there's people like you in the world. Makes life interesting and humerous. Anyway you never gave me your age or a source...tsk tsk..I think your 7, 5-6 is too generous. I hope I have offended you more, because at this rate this post will pass the 100 mark! All because of your ignorance

Grow up.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 04:25
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where did rotation around the sun come from you ask well if you wernt so busy being a dumbass youd realize the basic priciple of the idea time, time is a measure of how far the planet has revolved around the sun. and time is not an axis nether is gravity this is correct but this would destroy both theories so u must first understand you are thinking in terms of the game programing dimensions not scientific this what im refering to. oh my ignorance calm yourself and read how Stupid u sound. oh and half what make has missing words and repeats so dont complain ass.also im lost at first u said space is a void now u say it isnt get your ideas straight.the book i read was a damn high school physics book so i dont give a shit what its name is. and you think im 7 what are you 60 living with old theorys get wit the times gramps welcome to present. i do agree this post is useless the guy who made it was the real dumbass and i enjoy arguement with you you seem to stick with your ideas you'd be a good debater.

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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 04:41
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I Do Hope we dont remain enemies id see you are a strong foe and would be a useful ally. But i do say you come on a bit strong as you have not remembered the american motto, sorta no not realy anyway, everone is intitled to theyre own opinion that is your opinion i respect that. this my opinion respect it and stay off the spank mon. neither can be denied use your imagination be open minded when dealing with others opinions.

Also Known As The Arctic Fox A Warrior Of Treacherous Skills
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 05:43
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Hmmm...interesting. You've brought forth many a good point.
I have been refering to 'scienctific' dimensions and not game dimensions.(After all the victim...I'm mean players only gonna see 2..or 3..but thats a different bag of tea all together. I understand that everybody has an opinion. You have your 2 cents, and I have my 2 cents. And this is the right place to argue It wouldn't bother me a bit if this topic just...died. But we could by all means continue our agruement and just not curse each other as much. Hows that sound? Please understand, I'm not in the least bit angry with you. As far as I'm concerned your a fellow DB programmer. It's hard to get angry at a blue box with text in it. So perhaps we could get off the topic of Dimensions and the like. I'm 17 and have a bad habit of reading too damn much. And u?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 18:58
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i agree im 16, not 7, and your right this topic should just die. besides isnt it more fun to laugh at the people who want a team of 5 modelers 7 programmers and 10 concept artist. i to have an issue with this i also argue alot which get me in trouble alot.victims, good name for them *hahaha

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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 19:01
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let bygons be bygons, whatever a bygon is, and turn our sites to the team request board.muhahahahahaaha

Also Known As The Arctic Fox A Warrior Of Treacherous Skills
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Iki Holygoat
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 14:41
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LOL..... Brent_Seraphim .... great guy...

Well Ive been programming db and stoped a while back to go to uni.... still read these forums now and then... well i saw this and just had to register so that i could reply

Good discussion going on thats what i like to see...

Id just like to point my point across

Well here i goes:
Now you all seem to argue over the 4th dimension... well i don't see why... Now a dimension is just a thing.... the dimensions are just a list... so who cares if you call which which!

not much sence

Ie the 3d dimension etc was just called that because it'd make it simpler to relate to them... but in theory the 1st dimension could be x,y,x
the 2nd x,y
and the 3rd, x

see what i mean? im not too good at explaining things... specially when im hungover :S


anyways so if you go by THE list that scientists agree on then the 4th is time

also as a foot note... some scientist guy ages ago said that there were 7 dimensions or something... the rest of the scientific community basically said he was wrong...

The guy lost his job and everything... then a few years later when this equation wouldn't work, the scientists said "Wait! What if there are 7 dimensions!", and the equation worked! (think it was 7 anyways :S) and so that poor guy had been right all along, and proven so by the very people who said he was wrong!

Thats when they started going on about shhet shaped universe, and donut, and strings and it all got confusing :S

As I said... completely agree with Brent_Seraphim, good man!

Iki Holygoat

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 23:42
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Lol thanks for the vote of confindence. It was much needing since I have been taking quite a beating fromt the 'left side'. But its all give and take, and still rather entertaining

Thanks

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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IanM
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 23:56
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I don't really want to get into the argument, but I do know conclusively the number of dimensions.



See! Absolute proof!
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Skyone
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 02:59
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Brent_Seraphim posted:
God Bless you SKYONE! **Bows respectfully**

Heh....

-Skyone
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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 16:37
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I reckon a 'bygon' exists in only the forth dimension.......just kiddind

xxxpetratxxx
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 20:33
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firstly on the behalf of Arraying data, they are just as commonly know as elements.

However the nature of being know as a dimension actually spans from the words itself which means "pertaining or belonging to within a sequence"

as for the 4D within Programming and Shapes go, the 4th is a derivitive of Time (and btw 5th is Space, 6th is Sub or Reaction Space)

the 4D in a shape is actually based upon the vector set of time, or rather "speed" ... this means the next demension of shape is the movement of it based within the shape itself. I.E. the Vector of the points, which comes from a Velocity and Direction

but then again i'm sure some of you here already knew that - and might've answered it (i was too lazy to read all of that)

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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PiratSS
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I say it's 2D

Because anything on your monitor is 2D. Unless u got the New 3D monitor(20000$) or you have 3D Googles(Er.. HOw do you spell that?)

Anyhow, It's not 4D and not even 3D.

Kings are Rulers... Rulers are 30 cm... Still think you are a man?!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 02:35
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ITS 3D GOD-DAMMIT

xxxpetratxxx
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PiratSS
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 05:48
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In reply to IanM,

you see, the DIM command can hold up to 5 values.

so dim a(1,2,3,4,5) will work, 1-6 won't.

I never knew about this!

Men are Kings... Kings are Rulers... Rulers are 30 cm... Still think you are a man?!
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IanM
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 20:32
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In DBPro, it's limited to 9. The error message I get is 'Only 9 dimensions allowed at line 1'. It just happens to be wrong according to latest theory.

*Sigh* I have this deformed sense of humour you see
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 20:54
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lol ... compared to my brother your humours pretty normal

i think it was only 5 dimension in Standard wasn't it?

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 22:24
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I'm not sure time is a dimension because it's only a scalar property since it only goes in 1 direction. Unless you're a time traveler. I've heard that the 4th dimension is a real spatial dimension just like the first 3, we just can't see it.

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 23:30
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I'm rather eager to see this post die...ZomBfied, my friend, your on a large list of people who "Aren't sure".(Just read the last 70 post and their point is argued. However to get back to this post ORGINAL question, I would have to say the image would have to be 2D. The image in all sincere appearance is 3 dimensional, but it exist on a flat screen. In the same sense Artist (My self included) use shading and prespective to give the impression of reality or the inculsion of the 3rd Dimension in our artwork. But it's fake. The sheet of paper I drew on has no 'rea' depth, neither does the computer screen, its faked.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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IanM
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 17:59
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But surely that means the image is 3 dimensional. It has width and height - classic 2d, plus it exists in time.

PS. Please don't take this post seriously - I'm just yanking your chain.
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bugsquish
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Lets face it chaps, not only is time NOT the 4th dimention, but time technically is NOTHING. Not an entity of any kind. Time is simply a concept invented by humans to keep track of motion within the universe.

Think about it, without motion in the universe time would be meaningless. The only reason we can even measure time is because of CONSTANTS in the motion percieved by humans (namely orbital patters).

You might say without time there would be no motion. I think it's more accurate to say without motion there would be no time. And I hereby declare the 4th dimention to be MOTION.

IMHO
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IanM
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 13:29
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Of course, 100 years of Science must bow to your wisdom...
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Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 14:10
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LOL? I AGREE

xxxpetratxxx
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 17:17
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Lol...Why does this keep happening? I get itchy when things like this happen for the 8th time. Well I agree with IanM,
100 years of Science and expiremention, lets not forget proven physics, must bow down to your opinion. RRRIIIGGGHHHTTT, Ok time to get back to flamin. Ok Bugsquish, the change I have in my pocket is worth more than your humble opinion( Or mine for that matter). Motion is movement, or displacement if you will. And lets face it, Any word is an idea, merely a thought. They serve as a proxy for a preconcieved Idea. Time is the word we use for the passage of events. And Time won its place as a dimension when people proved the Time Dilation affect, that is the Time being competely relative to a victim in respect to the observer. Would you like me to scan the page out of my Physics book? (I've got the book in my car, and the scanner, its a cheap one mind u got it from tigerdirect.com, is at the office.)


Well Chaps, sorry I had to be an @%!@%#@ about it. I seem to meet all sorts of strange people on these forums.
Best Wishes Bugsquish.

**Bows respectfully to Petrat, and IanM**
Aye yes Bygones are bygones

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Moggie100
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 19:35
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I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY LONGER! ALL THESE VOICES IN MY POST!

But no-one gets that joke

Anyhoo, after reading all 93 posts, (and getting a headache in some cases) I have come to a conclusion:

We're all just guessing beyond the 3rd dimention! - its as simple as that, so until a 4th, 5th or n'th dimentional being comes to visit somebody to prove that they exist, we cant prove anything.

Yours Programmingly

Mog - Lord of the Post

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.
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IanM
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 19:44
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Heh, Sorry mate, I just couldn't let such a popular subject die

A good book to read for the layman (and for those who are interested) is 'The Elegant Universe' by Brian Greene. I start getting the headaches around page 34.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 20:44
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I'm with IanM, this post is eclipsing 100!
BTW I might have to get that book, sound interesting, the first time I read a book dealing with relativity was when I Was about 12 I guess. I found "Relativity for Young Reads" or something along those lines at the library. I'll have to give that book a try

And how the heck do you make those faces? The only ones I can get are those smiley ones! ARGH! And Moggie I completely agree, except anything above the 4th( input winking smiley face).

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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IanM
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2003 21:08
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The book is about string theory at it was in 2000, so it covers relativity and quantum theory first. All using explanations and diagrams without any equations. Page 34 is just over a third of the way through the relativity stuff.

By the time you get to the end of chapter 3, you'll understand (maybe) :
1) Why time is a dimension
2) Why nothing can go faster than light
3) What time dilation is and why it occurs
4) Why things get shorter as they go faster
5) Why things get more massive as they go faster
6) WHat a real headache is like

And then you start on quantun theory...


As for the smileys, these ones I know work
is ; )
is : (
is : D

These ones may
:S is : S
:/ is : /

and just as a test /\.

These are probably others knowing rich
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bugsquish
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 12:17
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LOL

did you notice we are saying the same thing BRENT?

Quote: "Motion is movement, or displacement if you will."
Undisputed, and it is this very REAL feature of the universe that gives us a basis for measuring "time" thanks to constants such as orbital patterns and later, light speed.

Quote: "And lets face it, Any word is an idea, merely a thought. They serve as a proxy for a preconcieved Idea. Time is the word we use for the passage of events."

Again, this is exactly what I was saying Time is a concept that exists only in the minds of humans. The same for dimensions. we know from programming that dimensions (arrays) neednt be specifically related to 3D space or time, or be limited to any number of dimensions. 3 dimensions just so happen to be a handy concept for measuring 3D space, hence why humans have difficulty imagining more than 3 because they try to apply it in a spacial sense which doesnt work.

Quote: "And Time won its place as a dimension when people proved the Time Dilation affect, that is the Time being competely relative to a victim in respect to the observer."
If time dilation is so overwhelmingly proven, then why is the scientific community still divided over the issue? "All motions may be accelerated and retarded, but the flowing of absolute time is liable to no change," said Isaac Newton. Did you know that all so-called evidence thought to confirm Einstein's time dilation, in fact only confirm Newton's law that motion can be changed, but time is still absolute? I reccomend that you check out "Time Dilation: A Challenge to Einstein's Special Relativity" by John Doan. There is more than one side to every story. You don't know everything cos u read a book when u were 12 .

And best wishes Brent
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IanM
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 15:31
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Hmm, I've searched for John Doan on google, and I find a lot of self publicising (and the funniest imaginary conversation with Einstein).

Anyway,
Proof of time dilation : http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae433.cfm
Check out the second paragraph - or read it all : http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php?articleId=43
A simple (!) explanation relativity, and loads of other stuff : http://home.xnet.com/~raydbias
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 01:37
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Bugsquish its great you took my last post maturely You've earned my respect.

My main point of my last post may have been perhaps hidden. I was responding to your last sentence:

"And I hereby declare the 4th dimention to be MOTION."

Motion is displacement, not a dimension. Motion is deffined by dimensions, it is self is not one. And I'm 'the stuff' because I read a book at 12, I've read everything I could get my hands on about physics, space, relativity and such, the main source being the 'blessed interent. I looked for John Doan and I cant find crap on him, not a thing, I did find alot of Music by a guy by that name though. And for the oddest reason I dont see Time Dilation as an opposition to special relativity, mainly because Einstein himself proposed the idea, and it was predicted by his calculations. So really in all sincerity do not see such a book being possible. BTW IanM could you send me the links to his site(s)?


Well good ol Sir Issac Newton said that? He was a grand ol' guy but he's lil off. Well... Aristotle said the Earth was in the Center of the universe!! Beat that! Screw Modern science, Aristotle said so! Understand Newton was ahead of his time, but not our time. We have the technolojy to test things and prove things, he did not. The time dilation effect has been proven. Would you like me to scan a page from my Physics book to show you? (If I do it'll have to be tomorrow).

But I can't wait your rebuttal, as your mature about it, with a twist of humor. Most people raddle of comptelely wacko things...like the 4th dimension is negative gravity!!!!!ARGH!

Very Best Wishes

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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