Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Work in Progress / Newton Wrapper ver1.3 **PREVIEW**

Author
Message
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 19th Nov 2004 16:44 Edited at: 26th Nov 2004 23:06
This is a WIP thread for the next version of the Newton Wrapper for DBPro. Newton itself will be updated soon, and I have been working with a preview version of the new SDK to get the wrapper ready for the new features. Here is a short list of new features in the next version:

CHANGES TO NEWTON ITSELF

New Collision Primitives:
* Sphere now takes 3 values, one for each axis, making elipsoids possible
* Cylinder primitive
* Capsule primitive (cylinder with rounded ends)
* Cone primitive
* Chamfer Cylinder primitive
* Convex Hull primitive (imagine wrapping your 3D object in wrapping paper, this basically does that)

New Vehicle Constraint
this is like the ragdoll system, designed specifically for wheeled-vehicles. The interface is very simple, yet powerful. this makes racing games, tanks, etc. VERY easy!

Raycast System
a new general raycast system, which works for both dynamic and immoble bodies. this makes FPS and other games super easy.

Collision Scaling
You can apply scalar matrices to the Newton collision, changing it's size/shape over time. this feature can be used for special effects like inflating baloons, and for making "slanted" collision shapes. Kind of hard to explain, but very, very cool.

Tunnel Collision Protection
New attribute that protects small and fast-moving bodies from penetrating or "flying through" other bodies. This of course takes more calculation, so the user can turn it on only for bodies that might possibly suffer penetration/flying through other bodies.

New Joints
* Universal joint


CHANGES TO THE WRAPPER

Force system changes: you no longer have to set Forces and Torques manually, there is a new, more intuitive way. the is based on 4 new commands:

NDB_BodyAddForceLocal
NDB_BodyAddForceGlobal

NDB_BodySetForceLocal
NDB_BodySetForceGlobal

you can use these commands to add forces to any body. for example with the local commands, you can add a force that always pushes an object forward, regardless of it's orientation in the world. you can imagine how easy it would be to make helicopters, space ships, etc.

There are also lots of other changes, including an overall simplification of the wrapper, removing confusing commands, and generally making it simpler. this means old code will no longer compile with the new version, but I feel it's worth the change.

NEW DEMOS
8 planned demos, I will add screenshots as I make them...

Demo 01 - Just a Ball
This is an extremely simple demo, showing the basics of setting up Newton, and creating a rigid body.


Demo 02 - Collision Primitives
A demo showing all collision primitive types available. This demo also will feature the ability to drag objects around with the mouse, which intermediate/advanced users can learn from.



Demo 03 - Joint Examples
A demo showing all joint types allowed in Newton. This demo will also feature dragging objects, to show the user how Joints can limit the degrees of freedom for a body.



Demo 04 - Materials and Collision demo
A demo showing how to use Newton`s material features to control how objects interact, and to detect when objects have hit. this demo uses material-influenced sound effects to show the technique, although there are many other uses.



Demo 05 - First Person Shooter Demo FPS DEMO VIDEO
This demo will show Newton in a simple First-person-shooter example. This demo will make use of the RayCast system for shooting bullets, and the Add/SetForce commands for shooting bodies, etc.




Demo 06 - Vehicle Demo VEHICLE VIDEO!!
This will be a simple vehicle demo, showing how to setup a vehicle with the new Newton Vehicle constraint. It will basically be a vehicle on a terrain object, with a few other rigid bodies to interact with.



Demo 07 - Buoyancy Demo
Although already in the wrapper, this will be a detailed example of how to use Buoyancy in Newton, one of the most impressive, but often overlooked features of the engine. The demo will be similar to Demo02, but with a liquid for the ground, rather than a solid ground.




I will update this thread with my progress on the new wrapper until its release. feel free to ask any questions you may have here, or on my Wrapper forum at: http://walaber.proboards23.com/index.cgi

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 19th Nov 2004 20:33
I never realised what Newton was capable of until I read this. looks pretty damn good.

How easy is it for an experienced programmer who's crap at maths?

BatVink
http://biglaugh.co.uk/catalog AMD 3000+ Barton, 512Mb Ram, 120 Gig Drive space, GeForce 5200 FX 128 Mb, Asus A7N8X Mobo.
Terms & Conditions apply
Vues3d on Kalimee
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2004
Location: NYON (SWITZERLAND)
Posted: 19th Nov 2004 20:45
I tried only once to have some experiances with Newton & I was a bit lost...
So, just to ask a silly question... is there somewhere a Tutorial that explains in detail HOW WORKS the Newton... I've seen once the result with regdoll demo & found it really beautiful, but tried to manipulate commands & I've been lost in few minutes...

Guido
http://www.vues3d.com
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 19th Nov 2004 21:32
that vehical stuff looks great

"We make the worst games in the universe."

jwurmz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2003
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: 19th Nov 2004 23:17
newtom is great for programmers with less than perfect math skills (so far, for me anyways). i've managed to implement gravity in my game engine using a mesh terrain and newton primitives.

and yeah, that vehicle stuff does look great!

walaber, can you explain what sort of debugging features will be included in the next release?

keep up the good work; can't wait for the new version

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein
IanG
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 00:25
that looks good - i can see some pretty cool racing demos coming up in the future

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
hmm
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 00:30
i think newton is awesome for programmers even with perfect maths skills, cos it'll take a serious load of work out of programming the way object interact and collide with eachother.
Cant wait! Been very keen on the vehicle module!

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 10:25
Quote: "How easy is it for an experienced programmer who's crap at maths?"


Very easy... Newton takes all of the complicated math out of physics. The only thing that people get hung up on, is that you have to think differently when using Newton in your programs... instead of thinking like a programmer, you need to think like an engineer. What I mean is that you have to think about how something would work in reality, and build it accordingly. This means using reasonable values for mass, size, etc. of course trial and error always works too

Quote: "walaber, can you explain what sort of debugging features will be included in the next release?"

Have a look at the first 2 screenshots, you can see the objects outlined in white- that's the debug feature. it allows you to visualize on-screen the "world according to Newton", basically it shows the location of all the bodies in the world, so you can check if your visual objects are also in the same place, and you don't have any offset issues, etc.

Quote: "that vehical stuff looks great"

Quote: "and yeah, that vehicle stuff does look great!"

Quote: "i can see some pretty cool racing demos coming up in the future"

Quote: "Been very keen on the vehicle module!"





Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Ilya
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 11:20
Are the examples going to be commented a lot?
And will you have a tutorial?
(Tutorials ownz when you get new software(but Newton is an addon...))

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 12:57 Edited at: 20th Nov 2004 13:02
Quote: " Are the examples going to be commented a lot?"

yep, the all-new demos will be much more commented than the ones with the current release.

UPDATE
Here's a short WIP VIDEO of the vehicle... it's not complete yet, but this gives an idea of how it will work!

also updated screenshots, refresh your browser to see the new ones (first post)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Cpt Caveman
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 16:43
That video is awesome, I can't wait
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 18:41
When is it coming out?
PiratSS
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 18:46
2 Words: OMG
IanG
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 19:32
that is so cool - i like the way the suspension works(look at the last jump, when it falls to the floor the body is pushed up) this looks so great

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 19:58
I think the Newton update will be out within a week or two, and I'll probably need another week on top of that to get the wrapper all ready.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 19:58
Christmas present then?
MikeS
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 20th Nov 2004 23:22
You are the man Walaber!



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
hmm
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 21st Nov 2004 00:25
yes...yes he is the man

coincidence? how about pure cosmic convergence!
Nack
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Jul 2003
Location:
Posted: 21st Nov 2004 00:32
WHOA! this looks really good. I like the vehice demo, it so "halo-ly" lol. Cant wait!

IanG
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 21st Nov 2004 02:01
im pissin my self with excitement(not literally)

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
French gui
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th May 2004
Location: France
Posted: 21st Nov 2004 02:59 Edited at: 21st Nov 2004 03:08
Yeah, it's very exiting! Can't wait it!!!
Very cool video!!!
What a pity that FPSC will not use physics...

My English is not so good I'm just French
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 21st Nov 2004 21:45
UPDATE

I started working on the First Person Shooter demo today, look at the first post for some screenshots!

it's working very well, with automatic opening doors, and crates to shoot! the player control is very smooth as well. you can even go up and down stairs with little dififculty.

Everything in the demo is done with Newton: controlling the player (camera), opening/closing the door, shooting the crates, even aligning the bulletholes on the walls!



Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 21st Nov 2004 22:30
Nice.

I once made a FPS example with Newton.

Can you run into the crates and knock them over?
IanG
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 05:54
this looks great cant wait for the release of it

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
dark coder
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 07:58
yes it looks amazing, but for the vehicle demo can you have more than one colliding with eachother?


walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 08:00
yup. it actually feels a lot like Half Life 2 or Doom III, in that running into objects lets you push them around, etc

and since everything is controlled by physics, you can do cool things like stick a box under a door to block it open, etc

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Kohaku
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd May 2004
Location: The not very United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 08:14
Oh wow.

You are not alone.
Mr Underhill
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2003
Location: The Forgotten Worlds...
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 08:43
Quote: "Oh wow."

Agreed. Wow.

Quote: "A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, not 1028.
I mean.... not.. that i.... new that already.... i figured... maybe... CRUD! IM A NERD! -Ion Stream"
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 09:07
UPDATE

I put up a quick video of myself running around in the FPS demo so you can see it in action. I think it's pretty cool

VIDEO DOWNLOAD

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
PiratSS
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 10:33
Wow, that looks really good. can we see the source code to that wonderful game?
DarkSin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Jul 2003
Location: Under your bed
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 10:34
That is just awsome walaber.


walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 12:46
Quote: " yes it looks amazing, but for the vehicle demo can you have more than one colliding with eachother?"

You bet. they collide just like any other body... so racing games are no problem. controlling the AI might take a little finesse, but it's certainly possible.

Quote: " Wow, that looks really good. can we see the source code to that wonderful game?"

The source code to all 8 demos will of course be included with the wrapper, including lots of comments explaining everything.


Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Cpt Caveman
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 13:15
Walaber, are those videos are made with a test version of the original sdk in c++???
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 13:26 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2004 13:30
Quote: "are those videos are made with a test version of the original sdk in c++???"

no, I have a beta tester version of Newton, which I am using to update my wrapper. the screenshots and videos are all from DBPro programs running on my Beta wrapper. you will be able to run/compile these exact demos, as they will come with the Wrapper when it is released (which should be very soon).

so, everything you see is running in DBpro.

QUICK QUESTION
I just realized that my planned demos 04 and 05 are basically the same thing (character control through Newton)... so since I have the FPS demo working so well, I'm thinking about making a different demo for #4...

any ideas?

right now I'm thinking of making a simple demo to show collision detection through Newton (so you can know when one body collides with another), as the current demos don't show how to use this feature.

but if someone has a real-world example demo they'd like to see included, now would be the time to post it, as all of my coding time is spent getting the wrapper ready for release

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
jwurmz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2003
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 13:56
how about the water functions like buoyancy and whatnot. or something to do with gravity zones, like the last wrapper demo with the tornado.

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 14:36
there will be a demo just for buoyancy...

the collision detection system can also be used for "zoning", I think you're right, it'd be a good thing to put in...

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
QuothTheRaven
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 16:02 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2004 17:47
I've been using Nuclear Glory for quite a while now for my first person shooter engine, something that Newton didn't initially look like it would be very helpful for. But after seeing that FPS demo, I'm quite impressed. Rigid bodies that are that dynamic wouldn't be possible at all with NG. I just have some questions before I consider recoding my engine with Newton instead of NG...

Does Newton have a raycast function? (Just wondering how you place the bullet holes) Can I just make a rigid body ellipsoid for my main character and have him run around my .X levels with gravity? I use Nuclear Glory's Y Hit Normal command to tell if the character is standing on anything so I can program my own gravity based on acceleration, is something like that possible with Newton? And would it be difficult to create moving platforms and dynamically rotating .X objects etc etc? Also, is it easy to link a rigid body to a .X object easily?

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to see if Newton is really what I'm looking for for building my FPS engine.

walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 16:23
Quote: "Can I just make a rigid body ellipsoid for my main character and have him run around my .X levels with gravity?"

That's almost exactly what my demo is!

Newton has a raycast function that is new with this upcoming release, which I used for bullets, and bulletholes (it returns collision normal).

Moving platforms / etc. are only limited by your imagination- they are definately possible, and actually quite easy. if you want to convert your game to Newton, please wait for this next release, and then start a thread on my forum, and I and the other users will definately be able to help you.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
PiratSS
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 16:39
Walaber, stop making me so happy
The Nerd
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2004
Location: Denmark
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 20:42
Walaber how long did it take you to make the dll for the car psyciscs?

did you used : visual c++ 6.0 to make the dll`s in??


and by the way this look awsome !


Waggames

wanna join Waggames?
then visit our site at : http://www.freewebs.com/waggames
my old forum name was: The Nerd
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 21:27
Newton SDK 1.3 was released .. DBPs can't be far behind heh


walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 21:44
well Raven beat me to it... the update to Newton has been officially released. I spent the last 2 hours putting in the new Universal Joint.

for those waiting, here's a list of things that need to be done before I release wrapper version 1.30:

* Test Universal Joint
* Fix joint friction problem...
* Add docs for several functions including universal joint
* Make the remaining 3 demos
* go over the chagelog and keywords files a few more times

... and then I can release. it looks like a lot, but the demos will be simple, and the docs while time-consuming, are very important.

I hope to have a release by/before December.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
The Nerd
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2004
Location: Denmark
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 21:48
Walaber how long did it take you to make the dll for the car psyciscs?

did you used : visual c++ 6.0 to make the dll`s in??


and by the way this look awsome !


Waggames

wanna join Waggames?
then visit our site at : http://www.freewebs.com/waggames
my old forum name was: The Nerd
walaber
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 21:52
Quote: " Walaber how long did it take you to make the dll for the car psyciscs?"

I did not make the physics system, I simply made an available physics DLL ([url]www.newtondynamics.com[/url]) work with DBPro .

but I've been working on the wrapper for several months, updating it as Newton gets updated. this upcoming release is a HUGE one, with lots of new features.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
Iain
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 22:04
It looks great Walaber, i am using Nuclearglory at the moment for my colllision and raycasting, if i use your newton wrapper instead does it do all the same things as NuclearGlory for collision.
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 22:53
Yeah, pretty much. But unless you really want physics in the game it might not be worth it because movement etc is harder.

How did you stop the player bouncing in that demo, Walaber? That was the main problem I had. Also, if you run into a wall when falling do you grip it and fall slower?
IanG
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 01:10
this looks so great - i cant wait for the wrapper to be released, im more excited than ever (but i was more excited when halo 2 came out)

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
jwurmz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2003
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 02:15
walaber:
(along the lines of chris k's question)
if i was to set the friction between two materials to 100%, would i be able to "climb" up a wall by applying a steady upward thrust to a rigid body whilst it is colliding with the wall?
(if this is unclear, let me know and i'll whip up a diagram)

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 06:20
Quote: "How did you stop the player bouncing in that demo, Walaber? That was the main problem I had. Also, if you run into a wall when falling do you grip it and fall slower"


That is down to materials 'bounce' value.
As for the gripping, you would have to do that yourself. It would be simple to do; just check if collision is going on with a surface when jumping, that would be the fastest way.. then simple reduce the materials weight to compensate. This said, in order to stop platforms from above doing the same then you'd have to raycast above to make sure that isn't where the collision is bound from.


Ilya
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 06:45
How many more days?
1?
2?
5?

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-23 03:17:33
Your offset time is: 2024-11-23 03:17:33