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Work in Progress / Newton Wrapper ver1.3 **PREVIEW**

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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:51
Even the second demo (Collision Primitives) looks awesome. I never knew that Newton could handle that many primitives with that much variety in the polygon count for each object. The FPS demo also looks very nice. The falling, bouncing door, the moving blocks, it's really cool.

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walaber
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:52
Quote: " Yeah, pretty much. But unless you really want physics in the game it might not be worth it because movement etc is harder."

If you base your movement of my FPS demo, it's not harder anymore.

Quote: "How did you stop the player bouncing in that demo, Walaber?"

NDB_NewtonMaterialSetDefaultElasticity command.

Quote: "if i was to set the friction between two materials to 100%, would i be able to "climb" up a wall by applying a steady upward thrust to a rigid body whilst it is colliding with the wall?"

I would think so, although the friction would actually "fight" your effort to move upwards if you were slidingg along the wall.

Quote: " How many more days?"

Depends on how much time I have this week... I'm pretty busy with work, but I'll try to get it done asap, I know lots of people are waiting.





Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Final Epsilon
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 08:44
can't wait! ^_^
walaber
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 22:38
update

got stuck at work tonight, which game me some free time to do some really boring stuff on the wrapper: updating the docs.

I have now broken the docs into several pages, as the main html page was like 300kb, since there are well over 200 commands in the wrapper now.

it's now broken up into smaller, easy-to-swallow chunks

I still have to add the Universal Joint docs, and I think a few other functions don't have docs yet, but it's mostly done...

I came up with a good idea for the 4th demo, it's going to be called "materials and collision", and show how to set material settings, and detect collision (which go hand-in-hand in Newton), and I think should be a very useful demo... I hope to work on it tomorrow morning before work

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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jwurmz
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 23:10
200+ commands? good job!

drink plenty of coffee, and forget about sleep

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein
dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 23:37
cant you just release it now then the docs later , id rather have the fun of messing around with it


tiresius
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 23:59
Quote: "I came up with a good idea for the 4th demo, it's going to be called "materials and collision", and show how to set material settings, and detect collision (which go hand-in-hand in Newton), and I think should be a very useful demo..."


Methinks Walaber has a mind-reading device and aimed it at my head. I've started doing material collision testing and haven't run into any problems yet but would like to see how the master handles it.

Three cheers for Walaber!
IanG
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 02:17
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray


hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray
hip hip - hooray

sorry got carried away there, but keep up the good job walaber (hip hip - hooray)

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Jess T
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 10:08
Sweet Walaber

I'll be interested to see the new demo's, as the original ones had me spinning in my chair

Jess.


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walaber
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 10:18
update

I wrote most of the "Materials and Collision" demo this morning, it's working quite well I think. I just need to stick in the collision detection part, and find a few sound effects, and it'll be done.

then it's on to the bouyancy demo, and a little cleanup!
I'm super busy at work this weekend, so I might not get much chance to work on the wrapper.... but it's getting close now... sooooo cloooose

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Physics coder
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 11:07
Cool!!
The vehicles physics are awesome! like Halo 2 quality! I can't even believe this is dbp. It blows my mind! ahh!

Is there a way to make wheels "deflated"?

DBPro driving/racing games are going to be a whole lot more realistic.

I can't wait!

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aristid
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 19:18
looking very much forward to this.
docs and examples - tutorials are VERY important in my opinion.
please assume we are complete dummies - like me -

cheers.
spooky
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 19:59
Looks great! I have upgraded to latest version of NGC but am now torn between doing a game with that or waiting for your product.

Is there still a place for both products? From what I can see, your product does as much as NGC but with added physics.

Boo!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 20:23
I've never used Nuclear Glory, however I've personally found Newton Game Dynamics to be extremely easy to impliment.
If that wasn't good enough, the physics are pretty much on-par with most professional engines; while not giving you the exacting features, almost anything you can do with Renderware-Physics or Havok you can recreate with Newton.

Collision, Material-Based Dynamics, Raycasting, Rag-Doll, etc.. It is very quick and quite versitile.


walaber
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 22:41
A lot of people ask questions about Newton and Nuclear Glory... like "can they be used together", etc... To be honest they are very different libraries... NGC is a well-made collision library, and that's basically it. although it does some automatic-object placement, it's a collision library at heart. it will tell you if things are colliding with each other.

Newton on the other hand is first and foremost a physics library. of course to simulate physics, you must also detect collision, so Newton has it's own, amazing collision detection system... and until now it was directly connected to the physics, so you couldn't use Newton as a simple collision detector.

however, the newest version of Newton allows for you to perform your own collision test, using any shape Newton can handle (primitive vs. primitive, primitive vs. TreeCollision, etc).

so in other words, if you want physics, use Newton, and it'll take care of your collision needs at the same time. however if you're just interested in not walking through walls, NGC is probably more suited to your needs.

Using Newton takes a slightly different approach from some standard game programming conventions, so for those not used to thinking about their game in physical terms, it can be hard to get used to. I personally can't imagine any other way anymore

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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jwurmz
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 23:50
i agree... NGC was excellent for collisions, but now that i have used newton and experienced it's power:
Quote: ""I personally can't imagine any other way anymore""


keep up the good work!

ETA?

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein
walaber
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 08:29
UPDATE

I finished the "Materials and Collision" demo today, it's simple, but I think will help a lot of users understand the cool material features of Newton. screenshots have been added to the first post, as well as here for those lazy



Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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jwurmz
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:18
walaber: quick question on hinge joints - what type of values can vector 2 have in it when you create a hinge and set the pin direction; can i, for instance, use values other than 1 for the pin direction? i'm trying to rotate a hinge so that it isn't restricted to being parallel with one of three axis's (axes? axees?... axen?).
any advice?

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein
walaber
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 12:33
it can be any direction at all, but the length of the vector you supply MUST = 1.0. this is called a "unit vector".

the easiest way, is to setup the vector how you like, and then call the NDB_NormalizeVector command (which is in the upcoming version), which will take any vector and make it into a unit vector.

for the time being, you can just divide each part by the length of the vector (see Philip's vector tutorial for more details)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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jwurmz
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 14:09 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 14:26
hmmm, i did some testing. when constructing hinges, i am able to pass vector 1 and 2 values like so:

NDB_SetVector 1, xpos-10, ypos-10, zpos
NDB_SetVector 2, 10, 5, 0

are the xyz values in vector 2 used for vector length? i don't quite understand. what seems to happen (with the above code) is that the hinge becomes responsive on the x and y axes, and the x axis has twice as much play as the y axis. no matter what values are in vector 2 when i create a hinge, the "hinging" is a result of the ratio of the active axes.

here's an example:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_download.php?i=442746
the hinge on the left had:
NDB_SetVector 2, 10, 5, 0
the hinge on the right had:
NDB_SetVector 2, 5, 10, 0
...when i ran this simulation. you see how on the left the hinge the hinge rotates about the x axis and the z axis (but twice as much) and on the right it rotates moreso on the y axis than the x axis. the "10, 5, 0" could just as well have been "20, 5, 0" because the result is a ratio of the active axes. in your help file, it says
Quote: "Before calling this command you must fill temp vector 1 with the position of the joint in global space. You must also fill temp vector 2 with the direction of the pin."
and i look at your demo05 code from the current release and you have
Quote: "NDB_SetVector 2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0"
which makes the hinge aligned with the z axis. i just don't get what type of variables those are in vector 2 on construction. can you help me understand?

(maybe i should have taken physics 101)

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein

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Physics coder
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 15:57
Quote: "i just don't get what type of variables those are in vector 2 on construction. can you help me understand?"


There are three variables, one for each axis. So in "NDB_SetVector 2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0" the x axis is 0, the y axis is 0, and the z-axis is 1.

The variables are the x-y-z direction of the hinge, they are not angles or a position or a length or anything else.

Quote: " it can be any direction at all, but the length of the vector you supply MUST = 1.0. this is called a "unit vector"."

That means x^2+y^2+z^2 should be 1 (from the pythagorean theorem, a^2=b^2+c^2, except now it's 3D, so it's a^2=b^2+c^2+d^2). You can just pass a vector whatever x,y,z values you want, and then normalize the vector(with the normalize vector command) and then you can use it as a unit vector.

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walaber
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 17:43
for example, say that you wanted a pin that pointed up and left at a 45 degree angle (let's forget about the Z axis for now). the easiest way to describe that, is like this:

NDB_SetVector 2, -1.0, 1.0, 0.0

this would describe a point that is 1 unit up, and 1 unit to the left, which makes a 45 degree angle. however, common sense will tell you that if you walk 1 meter forward and 1 meter left, the distance between where you are now and where you started is more than 1 meter (even if you walk the diagonal). this is the problem. Newton wants the direction along the diagonal to be of length 1.0. In the next wrapper, you can solve this by calling the NDB_NormalizeVector command.

basically, with Joints, you are saying to Newton "make a joint which will rotate around a pin, that's pointing in this direction".

you signify the direction with a "unit vector", which is a simple way to signify a direction in 3D. again, look at Phillip's vector tutorial for even more detailed examples.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 11:15 Edited at: 26th Nov 2004 11:16
UPDATE: DEMO PREVIEW DOWNLOAD

Some users on my Newton forum discovered that I had these demos up on my website, in the "misc" directory. since they got to play them, I figured I'd let everyone else have a chance.

so feel free to DOWNLOAD AND PLAY the current demos (not including the materials demo above)... this is a slightly outdated version of the demos, there have been some changes, especially to the vehicle demo, but you can give them a try and see how they work for now.

The wrapper itself will be available soon, and you'll all be able to see the source code for all of the demos, and use the new features for yourselves!


I also have another demo I made from a beta version of the SDK that you might find interesting. it's a set of gears made entirely with Newton, that mesh and rotate properly, using no tricks or cheats, just applying torque to the gears. DOWNLOAD HERE
screenshot:




Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Eric T
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 11:27
Heh, can't stop playing with the vehicle demo, reminds me of the warthog (RVB- looks more like a puma to me ) on halo. FPS demo was fin a for a few, jumping around into them boxes and watching them fall... weeeeeeeeeeeeee

Bleh, I've just given up on trying to think up signatures.
MikeS
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 11:42
As of now I've only tried V0.7 of the Newton wrapper. My has this come a long way. For my next project, I'm definitly using Newton for both collision and physics.

Bravo Walaber, the demoes were great. Can't wait to see more!



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Ilya
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 13:18
C'mon, download faster...

And is a clock possible with Newton?
(The circular ones that point to the time)

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
Ilya
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 13:49
I like the car demo the best, but can the car be easier to control(if I made something)?

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
walaber
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 23:05
UPDATE

I finished the buoyancy demo today. screenshots:



almost ready to release!! I might have enough time tomorrow to get it ready, but no promises

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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PiratSS
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 23:42
Very nice gear demo! Ran smoothly here
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 00:59
Dont mean to sound really thick.. but people keep saying how good the car demo was.. Have they just seen the vids? Or is there a downloadable demo?

Iain
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 01:26 Edited at: 27th Nov 2004 01:26
There is a downloadable demo go up a few posts.
dark coder
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 01:36 Edited at: 27th Nov 2004 02:27
the car demo just illegal op`s me but the rest work, i like the fps demo shows what can be accomplished for good games to come, hl2 here we come!, well eventually

the collision is really fast providing you dont have hundreds of colliding objects so it would suite my next games made in dbp very nicely, good job walaber


IanG
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 02:16
awsome

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walaber
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 10:40
this morning I got a lot of work done on the new Rigid Body Designer tool... it should be a really useful tool for making very accurate collision for your 3D models.

getting closer and closer to release...

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Ilya
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 10:51
Why are the bullet holes in the FPS double-faced(I might be wrong)?
(I shot a hole in a corner of the stairs and it was a double-faced plain.
Wouldn't a single-faced plain work better?

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
Kohaku
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 13:50
Wow walaber, after testing all of those demo's, I have to say that I am seriously impressed.

You are not alone.
Iain
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 20:48
I want it now, lol
David T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 21:08
I am extremely impressed with the fps demo and the possibilities of using it.

Once I get merc2 finished, my next project could be an fps slash puzzler, with lots of intricate problems to solve using newtoms physics

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Iain
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 21:11
Me and my brother are working on a new FPS now and cant wait to get the Newton physics wrapper, we have lots of ideas of where we want to use it in the game.
walaber
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 22:27
it's really encouraging to hear how excited everyone is to use the wrapper.

to be honest, I'm looking forward to just playing around with Newton myself, once I get the wrapper all done.

things left to do:
1) write demo #1 (the simplest demo)
2) add some missing docs
3) do a final check on the keywords file
4) release!!

the only problem is that I won't really have any time until next week, I'm basically working this entire weekend + Mon + Tues. it's a very busy time at work.

I'll do my best to get it out relatively soon...



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Nack
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 00:55
WoW...everytime i see this post, becoming more and more speechless lol. ITs reallly impressive. HOpe u release it soon!

walaber
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 01:28
update

got stuck at work tonight (it's 2:30am here), I can't go home because the trains stop running between midnight-5am in Tokyo.

had a little free time and luckily I had my docs files, so I whipped up the docs for the universal joint. I think the docs are pretty much ready now, except for about 2 functions I realized I need to add.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Chris K
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 01:46
Just a question, does NDB_BodySetTorque set the turning force? I can't get it to work.
gbuilder
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 02:43
The third-person or Character demo will be of interest to me.
I wonder if Newtons will effect the way we do animation. Characters will fall and bounce, crumple etc. perhaps removing the need for some animation sequences.

gbuilder.

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blanky
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 02:55
Bloody hell....

I need that thing...

Mr Underhill
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 03:41 Edited at: 28th Nov 2004 03:43
We wants it...we needs it...must have...the Precious!

Quote: "A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, not 1028.
I mean.... not.. that i.... new that already.... i figured... maybe... CRUD! IM A NERD! -Ion Stream"

I feel your pain, man. Wait...pain?!
walaber
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Posted: 28th Nov 2004 10:02
NDB_BodySetTorque in the current release will only work if you have set a flag of ",2< or ",3" on the NDB_NewtonBodySetForceAndTorqueCallback command.

note- this has been changed on the new version, and is MUCH simpler!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 00:57 Edited at: 29th Nov 2004 00:58
Walaber you the DADDY

How come this thread aint sticky?


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
IanG
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 01:14
should be really

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David T
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 02:13
We're cutting down on the stickies, if every single useful thing got stickied we'd end up with a board full of stickies

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