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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / The RTS is back!

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Phaelax
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Posted: 27th May 2006 10:34
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Quote: "Amazing work in a pretty short amount of time!"


Note the date of the first post of this topic. It's been written over many months.


Quote: "One thing I've noticed is if you select multiple units and send them somewhere they bunch together on top of each other, and there's no way to separate them (at least that I could figure out anyhow). Is there a way to keep at least a little distance between the units? "


Press spacebar and it will assign a formation to the selected group. Without any formation assigned, they'll overlap. It can be fixed, but I haven't done it yet. A good thing I should probably add soon though.


Quote: "I think added a zoom feature with the mousewheel would be pretty cool too! Seems that our view is pretty tight, it’d be cool to zoom out to see more of the map. Maybe mousewheel down zooms in and mousewheel up zooms out or something"

Sort of have something like that. Press 'A' or 'Z' to change the camera angle. The camera always points to the same spot, but the buttons raise or lower the camera, thus create a more parrallel or perpendicular view along the terrain.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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McChief
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Posted: 30th May 2006 01:19
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Yep, you're right, that is a nice chunk of time. Regardless though, that's a pretty impressive amount of work you've done on this series of tutorials.

I'll mess around with the formations and the cam angles. I still think a mousewheel zoom would be quite cool though! lol
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Renegade Andy
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Posted: 30th May 2006 14:01
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Any sign of the next chapter, its going to be awesome!

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Phaelax
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Posted: 31st May 2006 03:35
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Given all your posts on terrain help, you haven't finished chapter 1 yet! So what's the rush?

I'll do a short chapter on a minimap at some point.

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Renegade Andy
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Posted: 31st May 2006 20:02
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Actualy i have done a lot of other work for the game around the edges which i know what to do, turns out its the terrain which causes most problems.

Next chapter going ok?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 31st May 2006 21:09
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wish it was. I don't know if somehow i've grabbed old source or what, but things that previously worked aren't working! Walking animation doesn't show, harvesting resources is broken. arghh..... I think I'll have to rewrite the source by following my own tutorial.

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Renegade Andy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2006 01:29
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i can send you it if you are wanting ?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 1st Jun 2006 10:38 Edited at: 1st Jun 2006 11:54
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That's ok, I found my stupid mistake. I changed the character type of what I was using from peasant to soldier. I finally noticed that no animation sequences were set up for soldier characters. Doh!


I'm rewriting the source code, that's when I noticed it. The reason for rewriting is to refamiliarize myself with the project, find/fix any bugs, and optimize. Since this was originally written as I went along, there's bound to be things I could've implemented better.

I've increased loading times and reduced memory needs by using instance objects and changing a few data types used in the UDTs. Like settings variables as words instead of integers where I knew there wouldn't be any negative number or insanely huge numbers. (like an array index perhaps). That'll save a few bytes.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2006 17:44
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I've added a list of links to a few open source rts engines on the first post of this topic.

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Xander
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 00:08
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Great work on the tutorial Phaelax, I think that RTS games are a great way to learn more about programming, as you can start out extremely simple, but keep adding more and more on. The possibilites are limitless.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Renegade Andy
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 14:11
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Yup! Any news on the chapter front!

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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 21:48
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Still revising everything that's already been done. I'll probably build an html version to put up on my site eventually. I know I said I'd have it up by now, but between doing the revisions and rewrites and school finals, its taking longer than expected.

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Renegade Andy
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Posted: 6th Jun 2006 21:30
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Dont worry about it - as long as it arrives soon!

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Rage101
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Posted: 9th Jun 2006 04:55
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Hi Phaelax,

I went through your tutorial on rts and it was very informative,
when I try to run the program I get a compiler error
Constant name FASTSWAP_OFF must also be provided with
a constant value.
I've upgraded DBP to 6.0 would this have anything to do with it?
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lower logic
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Posted: 16th Jun 2006 00:42
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I took a look at the code, and got it to compile without errors in the latest version of DBP after a while of removing the FASTSWAP_OFF/ON thing.

I also added a waypoint ability for the characters. Right click still sends the selected character(s) to the clicked position, but now shift+rightclick adds the position to the character's waypoint array, similar to the starcraft method of giving units waypoint commands. Beside that, characters can now "patrol" between two points. Just selected the character(s) you want to patrol, press the P key, and left click the point the characters should patrol between, also like in starcraft.

The pathfinding was slightly modified so that if the character is unable to go to the assigned position, it will instead try to get as close as possible to the assigned position.

I also made the characters affect each other's path (so a moving character will now go around the others, instead of through them.). However, characters will still go through each other if they both land on the same square at the same time.

A basic sort of fog of war was also added.

Basic functionality for another player was added. Right now you start with 6 guys, and if you move north, far enough to uncover the fog of war, you will see six idle guys of player 1 (you are player 0).

Health bars are drawn above each character, though since you cannot attack/be attacked, they aren't useful yet.

You can download it and post what you think about the additions.

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 24th Jun 2006 01:36 Edited at: 24th Jun 2006 03:08
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Lower Logic,

That is a great addition to an already solid base. This will make development of my Open Source Transformers RTS even easier. Naturally you two will be credited. (Phaelex and Lower Logic)

Oh yeah, and some C&C:
`Fog of War needs to be better done, slows down fps (63-26), just doesn't please the eye aesthetically.
`Health Bars don't really show up (if you move the camera ahead of the moving selected units you can see moving helathbars but not above the units by default.

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lower logic
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Posted: 24th Jun 2006 10:27 Edited at: 25th Jun 2006 22:48
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Yeah I need to think of a better way to do fog of war. Right now the idea I have is to use memblocks and an image, and make the scouted parts of the image transparent, and the fogged parts solid. It's most likely much faster, than a slow matrix being updated each frame, and it could look more like fog.

Edit:
I implemented the image/memblock fog of war, and it wasn't any faster. Right now I'm working on optimizing the path finding (so each unit doesn't keep asking for a path to the target every time it reaches the next step. I'm also going to do the fog of war a bit differently and see how that goes. Other things being added: A follow ability for units. You can tell any unit to follow any other unit; a Mini map.

Edit2:
Here's the latest version.
Updates:
Added "follow" ability to characters. To tell a character to follow another, click on the character you want the selected character(s) to follow. Works with waypoints - so if there is a waypoint after the current character/follow waypoint, it will walk to the character, and then go to the next waypoint. You can even make a chain of people by telling A to follow B, B to follow C, etc.

Made fog of war faster. Now uses memblock/image version. Right now the only bug is character 0 doesn't get to explore. The fogofwar just ignores him, and I need to figure out how to fix it (the loop is "for char=0 to max_character_amount" so it *should* be working now, but doesn't ;P).

Added minimap. Just note that it uses a second camera, and somehow it's able to cut the frame rate in half, down to 30-35. You can enable(disable) the minimap cam by uncommenting(commenting) the "make camera 1" line. Without the minimap cam, it runs around 70-85 on my computer.

Worked on the pathfinding a lot. Now it will only ask for its path to its target once. This sped it up a bit. If it's in follow mode and the target and final tile get too far apart it will ask for a new path. I basically rewrote parts of the code, so now when a character needs a path, .need_path is set to 1, also, it doesn't rely on tempx = -1 for anything. Hopefully it will make sense. I'll add some comments some time so it makes more sense.

Another part of the path finding that was updates is characters won't go through other moving characters, so characters should never collide, however they still do if you try really hard and go crazy with the mouse.

Gathering is working again. Right now there's 1 weird bug but hopefully it can be fixed soon.

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Syncaidius
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Posted: 26th Jun 2006 00:22
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there is another bug where you click outside the north or south edge of the map with more than one unit selected, you get an array error saying that the array does not exist or is out of bounds.

Working on 2 projects: A Free Map/World Editor and my RTS game
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Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Jun 2006 01:08
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FOW I haven't found a solid method for it yet.

I've almost finished rewriting the code, just a small bug with pathfinding that recently showed up.

Quote: " also, it doesn't rely on tempx = -1 for anything"

i've gotten rid of that as well.

Quote: "Worked on the pathfinding a lot. Now it will only ask for its path to its target once"

The reason I had it find the path everytime it reached a new tile is because the map is dynamic and could change. (player sets up a new building or soemthing) I suppose that map won't change to often and I could probably just set a flag for characters to find a new path whenever there's a "map changed" event. Would definately improve overall game speed and free up some clock cycles.

I'm also trying to work out "nearest" target. If a target is blocked, characters will get as close to it as they can instead. I can't remember if I got that finished or not.


I know this is taking longer for the updates than I stated, but things came up. (summer break, so i took a break. new roommate moved in)

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lower logic
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2006 01:27 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2006 12:56
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This version has some improvements in the fog of war (enemies hide when the area gets fogged up again). Also, a memblock minimap has been added. This minimap is faster than the camera minimap and the dot minimap. Also, units on the minimap are drawn in the right colors. Right now you are the blue army and the other computer is the red army, but you can only see the colors on the minimap right now.

I also added middle mouse button functionality. Also, if you hold both the left and right mouse buttons, you can change the camera's y angle and the height of the camera. Support for different y angles of the camera has been added for the camera movement. Also, everything is really fast (I'm getting 100+ FPS).

I'm going to need to fork off to a different thread as you're also working on code. (Edit: And I bet you're tired of me posting a mod in your thread, so this will be the last post about the mod)

The way I've handled dynamic environments is I don't put moving characters into the search map array, but on each step check to see if the next one has become blocked (ie another character has dynamically moved onto the step, or is just about to move on to the step), and if so, regenerate a new path for that specific character.

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Syncaidius
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 11:09
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On the last release I got an FPS of 60-67, now i get an FPS of 78-84, so the changes u've made have really improved the performance.

Great work!

Working on 2 projects: A Free Map/World Editor and my RTS game
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General Reed
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 01:12
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Quote: "And no, age of empires 2 is the best rts! (or the first red alert)"


ROME TOTAL WAR is the best rts!!!!!!!!!!1

AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1GB ram, Geforce 6600 GTX, 250GB HDD
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Fneep
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 12:07 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 12:52
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Medieval II : Total War will be the best

When life gives you lemons, make orange juice. Then sit back, drink the orange juice, and wonder how the f**k you made orange juice out of lemons.
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lower logic
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 15:21 Edited at: 13th Jul 2006 19:37
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@Phaelax - I was just searching google, trying to figure why your name sounded sort of familiar, as it was bugging me for a few days, and I thought it might have been the old RGT forums, so I pulled up the cache to some dusty RGT forums pages, and you were there. Back then I was CyberLuke. I don't suppose you still have a copy of my Sphere game or BattleTanks game? Hah. Now I wonder where The Masked Coder, TDK Man, and lots of other people are nowadays.

Oh and to keep this thread on topic, any idea when the RTS update will be out?
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Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 21:28
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I remember the name cyberluke. If I recall, you wrote some rigid collision thingy (cubes falling on a matrix) just before you said you were leaving. TDK pops up on here on occasion, and i think masked coder might be under a different name now but im not sure. What's left of the original ppl (very few) have gone to Coders Turf which took over after monkeynuts, which took over after llrgt which took over after rgt which took.......

Quote: "Oh and to keep this thread on topic, any idea when the RTS update will be out? "

well the paint challenge got me sidetracked for a bit, but hopefully I can start back on it this weekend. I'm pretty busy for this week.

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Wolf Dreamer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 19:16
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Will attacking be done the same as resource harvesting?

Instead of a tree, you click on an enemy unit. Just as trees run out of wood, you taking one unit for each hit, the enemy losses life with each hit. Of course the enemy can move away if some crazy guy starts chopping it down, or fight back.

Or will you do something more complicated? Have it check stats to see how much damage each unit can do to other types of units, any weapons or armor upgrades that player has, etc.

With Professor Mark Overmars Game Maker when we wanted characters to notice each other and attack, we'd just have another object which was a big invisible circle centered on each object, and when it collided with any enemy unit, it caused the unit it was centered around to attack them. Is that the best method with Dark Basic Pro?

When your group is attacking an enemy, if that enemy takes off and runs past many others, do they continue to persue? What if a unit closer attacks them? Obviously they can't stop their attack and switch to another unit when it attacks them, or having archers or other range attacks around them would cause them to run back and forth, while their enemy slaughtered them.

Perhaps if current target is out of a certain range, and closer target attacks, then go for it? I think that would work best.



the last sane human being in a world gone mad
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Wolf Dreamer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 19:27
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http://www.teamxtcgames.com/rts_tutorial_001.htm
Quote: "
if mousex()>screen width()-10 then inc camx#,scrollspeed
if mousex()<10 then dec camx#,scrollspeed
if mousey()<10 then inc camz#,scrollspeed
if mousey()>screen height()-10 then dec camz#,scrollspeed

This code will check if the mouses position is within 10 pixels from the four edges of the screen and will change the camera's position by the scrollspeed value.
"


Being able to scroll around with the mouse would be a good feature to have. These guys have an example on how to do that.

--
I also remember someone posting an example on how to handle the countdown thing for buildings building units. Ha! The buildings are building construction bots, that will construct building bots. Sorry, just something that fell out of my head.

Can't remember where its at though.

Buildings should be simple enough to add I think. Click on a building object, buttons with pictures on them appear on the screen, choose what you want, check resources, countdown for it, create new unit, etc.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 19:48
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The attacking will be similar, but a little more advanced. It has to worry about units running away and deciding what action to take. Ignore it, chase it, or whatever. You could have it chase to a certain point or for a certain amount of time.

I had mouse scrolling at one point in the DBC version I think, its no big deal just a 30s job.

Quote: "I also remember someone posting an example on how to handle the countdown thing for buildings building units"

That would be me probably. I have a snippet on the previous page demostrating how to build units from a building over time, along with using a queue.

Quote: "we'd just have another object which was a big invisible circle centered on each object, and when it collided with any enemy unit, it caused the unit it was centered around to attack them. Is that the best method with Dark Basic Pro?"

This invisible circle would just be a radius value for the character. You're just comparing the distance between an enemy and character to see if its within this "attack" radius. (or sight or alert radius)

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sith lord
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 18:58
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wer is the update.
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Penguin Boy
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Posted: 13th Aug 2006 05:16
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im confused about the 2d -> 3d coordinates function.

if i print the movex# and movez# they dont seem to be the real world coordinates. Am i using the wrong varibles?

God you're ugly...
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Whisper Wind
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 08:43 Edited at: 16th Aug 2006 08:45
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Hello, just found this thread and I've been thinking about trying my hand at an rts. However, I think the biggest part of writing an rts will be the pathfinding ai and movement code. As such, I've been wondering if you could share your algorithm or thoughts on the problem. A pathing system would probably include things such as:

1. Using A* or some other algorithm to find the optimium path when the user clicks to send a unit somewhere. Should be heavily optimized.

2. Implementing good movement code to move a unit along the calculated path, while at the same time avoiding collisions with other units which may or may not also be moving. Its this part that is really scaring me. If you consider 20 or so units all moving around in the same place, you need a really complicated algorithm in order to readjust all of their paths so that they do not pass right through each other. And this all needs to happen quickly in real time. Also, if the path is long, buildings could be built in the way before the unit finishes the path.

3. Implementing groups and formation code so that a group of units stays together, and when ordered to move to one point, all of the units take a similar path and do not diverge before meeting back up.

Example of difficult problem

Group of units:

o o o o
o o o
o o o o

Wall with a small opening (Edit: imagine a slightly bigger opening, the site doesn't seem to like spaces in your post):

---- -------------


Now, how do get that group of units through that small opening without them all colliding and passing through each other at that point? Seems a bit difficult. Any thoughts?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 17th Aug 2006 04:27
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If you read the tutorial (download it from the first post) I incorporate IanM's A* pathfinding library into the game.

Quote: "Also, if the path is long, buildings could be built in the way before the unit finishes the path. "

In the case of a dynamic map, as most RTS games are, you need to continue to search the path at least every time you reach a new grid location.

Quote: "Implementing groups and formation code "

This too is shown in the tutorial.

Quote: "how do get that group of units through that small opening without them all colliding "

If the pathfinding is implemented correctly, the units should automatically fall in line. I haven't actually bothered about unit collision yet, but I should have that in the updated release.



Quote: "if i print the movex# and movez# they dont seem to be the real world coordinates. Am i using the wrong varibles?"

you sure are, the coordinates you want are in targetX# and targetZ#.



Quote: "wer is the update. "

The tutorial update is still coming, but in the rewrite I messed something up with the pathfinding, so now its broken. (figures) Soon as I figure out what I missed the rest should be simple.

Would you guys prefer the tutorial was online instead of a Word document? I just finished redesigning my website and was considering turning all my tutorials into online resources.

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lower logic
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Posted: 17th Aug 2006 19:02
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Quote: "Now, how do get that group of units through that small opening without them all colliding and passing through each other at that point?"

Some research papers and AI Game Programming Wisdom 3 describe a cooperative path-finding algorithm. In this algorithm multiple units find paths through space-time that do not collide with each other. This sort of algorithm would be worth looking at as a possible solution if you have a lot of units in small spaces, or where normal paths tend to collide frequently. Here is a link with more details on the algorithm, it looks like it is straight out of AI Game Programming Wisdom 3: http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~silver/research/publications/files/cooperative-aiwisdom.pdf
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Bug Man
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 00:19 Edited at: 13th Apr 2007 04:17
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thats 1 awesome TUTORIAL

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Whisper Wind
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 08:05
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Thanks for responding, Phaelax. I probably should have read the tutorial first, sorry.

Quote: "In the case of a dynamic map, as most RTS games are, you need to continue to search the path at least every time you reach a new grid location."


I'm not sure about this, but it seems to me that if you pathed every time you reached a new grid location, it would be far too slow. Imagine a hundred units pathing every second! A bit ridiculous it seems, but then again I've never tried it.

Quote: "If the pathfinding is implemented correctly, the units should automatically fall in line. I haven't actually bothered about unit collision yet, but I should have that in the updated release."


In my opinion this is actually one of the most difficult part of writing an a rts (although who am I to say, I've never made one!). Therefore, I will be very interseted in seeing the solution when you do complete it!

lower logic:
Thanks for the tutorial, it looks great!

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 11:12
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i have done an internal counter for each unit with an array to tell the unit to only use map and search after an certain amount of cycles and it works like an charm.
it almost uses no cpu resources compared to the old one at every cycle.
the screenie shows 21 units moving and using map and search at the same time with this method.

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wildbill
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 17:53
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CM 3 Deg your game looks really cool. It just has a certain fun look about it.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Sep 2006 10:21
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I bet everyone who's reading this now thought that I posted an update when they saw this thread has changed. Nope, sorry, not yet.

Because I'll be making this tutorial online now, I wanted to convert the document now before I wrote anything else in Word. Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm on page 10 of 22 and should be finished with the rewrite tomorrow and have it up online. This rewrite is nothing more than what's already available in the document, so don't get too excited just yet.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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Syncaidius
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Posted: 13th Sep 2006 21:19
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Just a suggestion for the next version/tutorial of this RTS project:

You could add RiiDii's RTS formation code into the project and maybe my RTS Camera Rotation and zoom. I know you already know about both Phaelax, but here are the links anyway (for quickness on your side):

RiiDii's formations code:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=88408&b=6

My RTS camera code:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=88953&b=6

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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 01:37
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The scope of the tutorial is to cover basics. I have a basic camera system and demonstrate some formations with a simple method to easily add more. More advanced systems are to be left up to the user. I'm trying to teach (and learn myself) and not trying to provide a completely pro engine. So i'm afraid I wont be adding those snippets in, but I assure you it has nothing to do with their quality.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 04:00
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Here's the tutorial online.
http://cca-software.com/index.php?page=tutorials/rts/rts1

The link will also be added to the first post of this thread as well.

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Syncaidius
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 13:57 Edited at: 14th Sep 2006 13:58
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Quote: "So i'm afraid I wont be adding those snippets in, but I assure you it has nothing to do with their quality."


Its ok.

As for Your RTS tutorial, I've already learnt a lot about Pathfinding from your tutorial. It's give me the inspiration i needed to get working on some decent Pathfinding for my own RTS.

Hope you manage to get the tutorial finished, it's great so far!

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slicer 4 ever
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 23:22
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i find the hardest part of trying to create an rts is keeping the speed up to about 45-60 fps which is why mine is corrently abandoned but i'll check these to help me=-)

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bosskeith
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ahh that is too bad slicer, because the human eye can only percieve a new image every 50 milliseconds (1000/50) or 20 times a second therefore anything stable over 25 FPS is sufficient.

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slicer 4 ever
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Posted: 12th Nov 2006 10:38 Edited at: 12th Nov 2006 10:40
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hmm well mine seems to stabalize out at 30 fps i was thinking of adding something to all my speed calculations like: speed + screen fps()/60 which means when my rts hit's 30 fps which it usually does after i begin building stuff it should make everything still look the same hmm maybe i'll attempt to continue progress if you want i could post up what i've done for mine

edit: also i was wondering is it a good idea to have your objects to load in when you build them? as that's my method for building things unfortuantly i haven't had a chance to check these with my school work

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lower logic
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 21:10
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Quote: "also i was wondering is it a good idea to have your objects to load in when you build them?"


It's better to load all the media before hand and then make instances or clones each time you want another version of it in the game because loading objects from the hard drive can be quite slow, so its better to do it when the game loads.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 04:41
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That's where multi-thread support would really come in handy.

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steel gollum
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 18:37
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can anyone please just give me the code for moving my player around by clicking using a 3d mouse. I don't want have to highlight my character every time.
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Zombie 20
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phaelax- great job on this, i love it. i'm using the dbc version. can't wait to move up to pro with this tut. Keep up the good work.

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Hayer
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Posted: 21st May 2007 10:19
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Nice, looks like im to late... The site is down..

Want me to host ur tutorail so u just have to pay for a domain?

Need webspace for your game?
Contact me at cpu1400@msn.com or msn (peder.husom@broadpark.no)!
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