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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / - DBPro Coding Challenges -

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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 02:01 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 02:03
well with the new vertex commands, you could crudely reset the object's origin, making some rotational stuff easier.

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Ric
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 02:25
Hey - that's great Nick! It looks totally real, too. Played with it for ages making different shapes and spinning it round! I like the smoothness of it too that comes from the curve angles. Definitely a game in there somewhere - hitting balls around, or even fighting against another robot arm thing, taking swipes at each other!

The keyboard was just as a suggestion - your method is actually really good.

RiiDii
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 02:41 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 08:28
Okay, not to be completely outdone, here's a start.

Use the a,s,f,g and z,x,c,v keys to control the respective fingers (if you use your left hand) with left mouseclick to move up and right mouseclick to move down.



Edit: Added a "thumb" controled using b & space keys. Also can rotate and wave the hand using the mouse (just move it).

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 04:23
Nice one Riidii!! Wonder what could be done with that... Hmm..

Cheers for the comments on mine guys.. I have been playing with my website a bit today. I have updated it so the start dates of every compo so far are there. If any are wrong, please let me know. I have also changed the code display to use an IFRAME so when someone does some code with a 300 character long line it doesn't get broken mid-command or extend the page to a 2mile horizontal one It sits neatly in an internal frame with its own scrolling.. Check is out here

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Keaz
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 07:59 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 08:02
Sorry, but with my other current projects I didn't have time to work on this one. I was looking for a board game to use a robotic arm to control the pieces but I couldn't find one that was open source. Maybe I'll try the next challenge.

@Nick Nice site. Very professional looking.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Ric
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 08:29
Nice one Rii - also trying to think of a use, other than for making rude hand gestures! Looks good though.

@ Nick: how about adding a little league table to the site - maybe give people a bit more incentive to take part? (Rii and me are joint top, both on 4 wins - just incidentally! )

RiiDii
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 08:36 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 08:37
Quote: "other than for making rude hand gestures!"


Rude hand getures? I would have never thought of that!

Besides the obvious - I was thinking of trying out some of my newest invention - a vertex-based collision system. What I want to do is an arm with this hand on it and you try to pick up the ball. The fingers and hand would actually each "collide" with the ball and keep from going through the ball. Then the ball also would react accordingly with very basic gravity (y=y+1 style gravity). The object would be to pick up the ball. Not really a game, but more of a demo.

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 09:09 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 09:13
Riidii - that sounds like an excelent idea!!

And as for the leaderboard, Great idea, Ric.. I have two options for that.. I could make it so people sign up and get their code "attached" to their username, or I could just make a user profile seperate to the main users. The later would be easier for me to maintain as when new users sign up, I dont have to make sure they are memebers of my site

As for my robotic arm game - here it is in all its glory.



AIM:
Tidy up the floor you messy... arm.. thing... The bigger the box you put away, the more points!

HOW ON EARTH?!
* Mouse roller to select rotary joint
* Left mouse button (held) + up and down to pivot the joint. EXCEPT the first vertical joint, move left and right to turn the "crane" around.
* Right mouse button picks up a crate if the end tip is touching it. Use the "crane cam" at the top to help. If you are holding a crate, right mouse button releases it. It must fall into the home box (the bigger (and, in fact, ONLY) blue one)

Think thats about it... There is no time limit (YET)... I cant decide whether to do it in say 60 seconds, or maybe 30 + 10s per box?!

Opinions?!

When is the deadline?!

EDIT:
Screenshot:


My Website:

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KimoSabi
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 09:22
Wow!!! thats awesome I would say 40s and 15s per box cause it is hard to do fast

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RiiDii
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 11:35
Pretty fun Nick! Great work as always! I got box stuck inside the blue box and couldn't get it out. I figured out how to avoid that, but I also got frustrated trying to get it out and decided it wasn't possible.

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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RiiDii
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 16:43
It's still a wip, but here's the progress so far. Added more joints for the fingers controled by q,w,e,& r. Also, using the wip Vertex-Based Collision (VBC) (okay, it's really ray-casting), I've added a ball that the hand can pick up. It's not stable and will fall through the hand easily. My next phase of the VBC is to maybe do some average return of the vertex collisions, which should return a point fairly close to the center if the collisions are on opposite sides of the sphere. Using this result to base the ball's reaction to multple simultaneous collisions should allow the ball to move further if collisions are on one side, and much-much less if collisions are on opposite sides.



"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Keaz
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 02:14 Edited at: 29th Jun 2005 02:16
Wow, I didn't realize these challenges could be this complex. I might have to go back to the little leagues for a moment or two.
BTW Nice, work Rii keep the progress coming along I would make a good way to do dynamic grip of things like weapons in a game..

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
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Ric
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 02:32
@ Nick: Great stuff! Hard at first, as Kimo says, so maybe you should have the time allowed starting high, and getting less for each box? Or perhaps instead of a clock you have to beat, perhaps the blocks could gradually fade away or something? Loads of variations in fact, using your crane - I could imagine having a game where each level was a different task - like building a tower of blocks within a certain time limit - or knocking skittles over - or catching falling objects - or even stick a gun on the end and play target practice ..... oops - getting carried away!

@ Rii - couldn't get it do actually lift the ball up - seemed to go through it. Reminds me of those pick up the cuddly toy games with the mechanical arm!

Might have ago at this challenge myself tonight. By the way, I think I set the deadline for next Tuesday - one week to go.

Ric
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 09:00
OK - here's my work in progress:



I borrowed Nick's idea for controlling the limbs - mouse wheel to change the selected limb, and then click and drag to move them around.

Just a demo at the moment - no real purpose to it!

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 09:03
nice ric - i like it! Could make a cool slapping game Hehe..

Its a shame the cylinders like having hollow ends :-(

I haven't had time to do anything to mine tonight..

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RiiDii
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 09:17 Edited at: 29th Jun 2005 09:17
Cool Ric! I was using it as a shovel / scoop to dig up the binary dirt.

Quote: "Its a shame the cylinders like having hollow ends "

You can just make your own cylinder object with sphere's at the ends to close them off. Flatten the spheres to make flat-ended cylinders.

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 09:25
cunning!

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Ric
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 01:44
As cunning as a fox who's just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University. Actually, I might add cones on the end of the fingers to make it really claw-like.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 01:58
I didn't know Blackadder likes DBPro..

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RiiDii
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 19:02
Okay! I am jazzed! This is an accomplishment for me! I am learning vectors and I have a decent start on my VBC now. Give this a try. More of a demo than a game. But it should work (although, when the limbs can move (mouse button is pressed), it seems the collision doesn't work. Hmmm...). You can also lift the ball up from underneath using the center of the hand, and if you offset it a little bit, the ball will actually "roll off" the hand! Okay, maybe I'm too excited about this... here's the code. Thoughts? Comments?



Next steps...
Add some friction between the ball and the hand so the ball moves with the hand easier.
See if I can get the hand not to pass through the ball so easily (give the ball some substance).
See if I can solve the mysterious collision-not-working-when-pressing-the-mouse-button issue.

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 19:51
I couldn't get any collisions working between my arm and the floor (in DBP that is.. In reality, the arm-floor collisions process is working flawlessly... otherwise I'd be knackered if I fell over!!)

Unfortunately, I wont have a chance to check that code for a while. I'm busy tonight and probably tomorrow night and then away for the weekend :-(

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RiiDii
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 03:29 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 03:30
Friction added. The ball is less bouncy and a little more substancial. Still no luck with the hand-to-ball collision (ball-to-hand is working great!). Also no luck with the mouseclick issue. But you should definately be able to pick up the ball. If your pc can handle it, go in and change the rows & cols in the Make_Collision_Object() function call (8 seems to work well). Also increase the accuracy in the Check_Collision function call.

Added some remarks to explain what's going on (a little bit).

Overall, you should be able to pick up the ball and move it around. If you can increase the settings and still get a good frame rate, try lifting the ball up by the top of the hand and let it roll towards the fingers. The ball should fairly realistically slide between the fingers and "roll" away from the hand, which gives me an idea for a game (based on a real-life game).



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Ric
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 09:49
Still not working for me - the hand and fingers seem to move fine, but it doesn't affect the ball in any way - perhaps I'm doing something wrong .......

RiiDii
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 11:10 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 13:37
It's a little tough to get the height right since there is no shadow. What happens when you "squash" the ball? It should pop-up or move to the side. But I gather from your comment it's not. I'll add a "shadow" to help align things better.

Edit: Okay, here's the shadow. I also added another feature to help with frame-rate vs. accuracy. I will be working on getting the limbs to detect collisions with the sphere and the "floor" next.

Edit2: Added beginning of hand-to-sphere collision detection. If you try to "crush" the sphere in the hand, the fingers will stop. There is some overlap due to the accuracy vs. speed factor, but you should notice that the hand won't close completely if the ball is inside it. If you have some spare fps, you change the accuracy setting for the limbs and it should work even better. Also made a few other minor improvements. 1) Mousewheel will pitch the hand.

Note: On my pc, I am getting about 90 fps when not moving the fingers and about 50 fps when the fingers are moving. I know on my pc at work, the FPS would be crawling. Adjust (decrease) the accuracy values to increase the FPS as needed.



"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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RiiDii
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 14:09 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 04:10
Here's a screenshot. I can't figure why it wouldn't work Ric.



"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Ric
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 03:49 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 03:50
Hmmm - no joy. Hand and fingers just move straight through the ball, as shown:



I'm not meant to be pressing a certain key or button to lift, am I?

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RiiDii
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 04:08 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 04:12
Quote: "I'm not meant to be pressing a certain key or button to lift, am I?"

Just up and down arrows. You've got all that down. Earlier version would have had problems with holding a mouse button down, but not now. Hmmm.. That's odd. Anyone else having problems?

Edit: Notes: I don't have any dll's or plugins or wrappers. I am using 5.8. And it works on both my pc at home and at work.

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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RiiDii
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 04:41
Run this code Ric. It will help narrow down the problem a bit. The bottom value, "Collisions" tells how many registered collisions+1 occured during all checks with the object. The value should be 1 if there are no collisions. Please post the value during a collision like in your example above.

For everyone; this is the latest update and is smoother with some improvement on the Frame Rate. I've used averaging over several frames to generate new positions for the sphere to smooth out the movement and allow the collision checks per frame to drop considerably.



"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 05:44
Rii, hate to say it but I only get collision as 1.. Cant move the ball at all, I only pass throught it.

I have 5.8, not extra DLL's...

I was doing 1300FPS.. I tried limiting it to 200, no difference (except it was more controllable ).

I couldn't make the hand close, though. I roll the mouse wheel and the hand rotates. Up/Down move the hand up and down.. Am I missing something?

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RiiDii
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 06:50 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 07:21
Well, that does narrow it down. The high FPS indicates it's not cycling through the verticies for some reason. Can one of you run this? I made a modification that might be causing the problem. Please post the number of verticies displayed. Should be 450. Thanks.



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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 08:55
LMAO.. SHOULD be 450... I got -1

Haha.. Thats quite funny in a WHAT THE..?! kinda way...

For reference, I'm running:
Athlon 2500+ Barton
1Gb DDR 333 RAM
Gigabyte 6800GT nVidia

Why would the same code do different things on different PC's but the same compiler?!

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RiiDii
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 12:18 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 12:20
Quote: "Why would the same code do different things on different PC's but the same compiler?! "


Okay - this is probably the problem, though like you said, "Why...?"

If you run this simple code, you should see the number 36 printed.

3 points per vertex, 2 verticies per side, 6 sides: 3x2x6=36



And just for good measure, try this one too.



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Ric
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 00:08
First one says 36, second one says 0. Is that right?

RiiDii
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 01:47
No. Both should say 36. That's some kind of bug then I guess. It works on both my pc at home and my pc at work.

I will have to use the limb version, but I have to figure out how to rotate it. I want to have a central point in space - which could be at any coordinates. Then I want to have a second point that is not at the first point. If I rotate the central point, I want to be able to move the second point relative to that rotation. And I want to do it with trig. I've been working on it for a few days now - and it's got me stumped. Any suggestions or links?

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RiiDii
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 01:52 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 01:53
And thanks Ric and Nick. This should work then. It's a bandage for now.



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RiiDii
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 18:29
Here's some of the work I've been doing to help wrap my brain around 3D Geometry. It's only a start and the Z rotation axis isn't used at this point. It shows that you need to calculate the x/z distance first. Then you would use the result (distance) to calculate the x-axis angle.

Anyway, I'd thought I'd share incase anyone else is interested.



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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 18:53
r2d2, try sending Ric a compiled version and see if the problem persists.

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RiiDii
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:51
Good idea Phaelax. I'll make my guess that it won't work, but it will be interesting to find out for sure.

I assume that means it worked for you Phaelax?

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Ric
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 04:44 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 04:45
It doesn't execute (the file you sent me) - but the error messages may shed some light on the matter -

"could not find file: d3dx9_24.dll"
"could not load file: 2: DBProCameraDebug.dll"

.... which makes me think - what version of DBPro/DirectX are you running? I think I'm on the most recent of each.

Anyway, the version you posted above ('bandaged version' - not sure what you mean by that) works fine - most impressed.

Not quite sure I understand what you're trying to do with the rotation - by 'second object', do you mean the camera?

RiiDii
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 04:53 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 05:01
I think this was the file name of the last version of DirectX I installed (per the 5.8 upgrade instructions).
Feb2005_MDX_x86.MSI

And of course, using DBPro 1.058 (aka 5.8).

That looks like a DBPro error. I'm not too worried about it as the vision is to use limbs anyway, which is the version that works.

By "bandaged version" I mean the fix was a temporary fix, not meant to be my final fix.

On the rotating question, when looking at verticies, they are always offset of the base 0,0,0 coordinates and the base 0,0,0 axis rotation. Basically, I want to be able to return the world coordinates of a particular vertex based on the object's and limb's world position and world axis rotation.

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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 05:21 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 05:26
I don't think you are using the final version of 5.8. The beta versions of 5.8 produced exes that needed the extra dll. The final version should not need it.

Make sure you have the version from the dbpro upgrade page http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=upgrade_5_8

Easiest way to tell is the size of the exes. The last code snippit you posted compiles to a 9.58Mb exe. If you are not using the latest version the exe will be smaller because lots of the directx stuff is in the d3dx9_24.dll dll.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 05:35
Worked for me - but I think I have that wierd install of DX9.0c.blah.blah.blah that microsoft released because they cant organised a drunkard dance in a brewery full of drunk dancers....

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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 15:42
Quote: "I assume that means it worked for you Phaelax?"


the collision worked for me, yes.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 18:42
I wish I had more time to compete in these challenges I really do.. I enjoy them thoroughly, but alas I barely have any time to check my mail - let alone do work in DBP or any programming in general :-(

Are there only 3 entries for this compo? We need to raise the profile a bit - maybe people will join in when the TGC competition has ended?

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Ric
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 02:11 Edited at: 6th Jul 2005 02:11
O.k.- I do believe it is deadline day. Only 3 entries, and one of those was mine, the challenge setter, so it boils down to Rii and Nick. Both really good entries, and difficult to chose between them. Rii's has a lot of potential, and pretty cool collision physics. Nick's has the added fun factor of a minigame, looks stylish, and has a nice control system. In the end, the winner, by a very narrow margin, is:



So, roll on the next challenge. And in fear of being the only entrant, perhaps we should think up some ideas for raising the profile of these challenges, as Nick suggested. Perhaps a short article for the newsletter? Any other ideas?

RiiDii
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 03:28
Okay - this challenge should be more fun than anything else. So here's my thoughts. It should be easy (limitations on the physics, ai, encryptions, or whatever). It should be fun (something at least a few people should be able to agree on as "fun"). So I am thinking...

Create 3D Interactive Space Scene.

And by interactive, I simply mean there is some method of flying around and checking everything out. No collision needed. The 'scoring' should be on cool looks alone. Physics and AI and what-not can be added, but will not impact the score. Looking for visuals only.

Some idea's: Space stations, planets, comets, asteroids, nebuli (nebulas?), space ships, stars, warp speed, low altitude orbit, etc.

Feedback (before setting the challenge)?

"Droids don't rip your arms off when they lose." -H. Solo
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 08:23
So basically, you mean a cool visual effect type tech demo?

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Ric
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 08:52
I like the sound of this one. Space demo thing. Lots of scope.

Need to drum up some interest from the rest of the community though - how about the winner gets a free trip to NASA?

RiiDii
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 12:28 Edited at: 6th Jul 2005 14:51
Quote: "So basically, you mean a cool visual effect type tech demo?"

Ummm... yeah... that's what I mean!

Okay: Challenge = Space Tech Demo
(or STD for short )

Give it two weeks again Ric? I'll let you give the official start off.

Edit: And here is the Robot Hand with Dmitry's help. The hand shouldn't close all the way if the ball is inside (though you can "squish" the ball through the hand still by pressing against the floor or boundries). The FPS should be better now. And the collision is a lot more accurate.



PS. Nick, I personally think you really should have won. This challenge wasn't so much about physics (imo) as it was about cool robotics. In that respect, your's is by far the winner. But being selfish, I didn't turn down the win either.

Edit2:
Quote: "how about the winner gets a free trip to NASA?"

And I suppose the challenge setter pays for it?

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Ric
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Posted: 7th Jul 2005 02:04 Edited at: 7th Jul 2005 06:31
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--- Challenge 21 ---

Challenge: Program an S.T.D. (Space Tech Demo)
Deadline: 2 weeks - Wednesday 20th July, or sooner if your S.T.D. is of a serious nature.
Challenge Setter: RiiDii
Prize: Trip to NASA (travel, accomodation, admittance fees, spending money not included in prize)

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p.s.
Quote: " This challenge wasn't so much about physics (imo) as it was about cool robotics"


Robot=machine=mechanics=physics. QED.

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