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FPSC Classic Product Chat / The Future (This concerns everyone here.)

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ZAKU
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 16:43
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While I do not pretend to be The Oracle of these forums,or any particularly insightful person,I have noticed a new (might be old)
trend that has started dominating these forums.
WARNING - [b]This will be an exceptionally long vent,so to save yourself time,especially if you have already decided that whatever I have to say is nonsense,please skip ahead.

Recently these forums have taken a serious turn for the worse,there is a constant negative attitude,not only to FPSC as a Tool,but also to any and all people asking questions or submitting work for discussion.
These Individuals,who should appropriately be named DRAMA QUEENS,besides tearing apart almost everything they see also for some reason seem adamant to announce their imminent departure .(WE DON'T CARE.)
As for attacking the program itself and Going off towards mods etc.
Let me be the first to congratulate everyone at TGC for an exceptioanlly powerful tool.
The reason I refer to it as such is that considering the price everyone here has payed for it sand what you can actually do with it,how can anyone complain about one or two bugs.
(I've actually developed on many Engines,including TGE and A6 and these are more difficult and slightly more bug ridden than anything I've seen using FPSC so far.
Complaining about shortcomings , like the infamous NO LADDER,problem only demostrates shortsighted game design,not a real knack for finding a problem like some people here tend to beleive they have.
If you don't have a ladder,design around it,if you can't save,THINK.There are many ways of skinning a cat.
Regarding the MODS - Thank you,I know that you do your best to govern this circus.(You cannot be expected to give technical support to users and most of us understand this.)
PLEASE REFER TO SUGGESTIONS AT THE END OF POST.

I would like to congratulate users,I know I have not contributed nearly enough myself,for all their various contributions and good - spirited offers.
Suggestions for the future:
Let's all be friends (Kidding LOL)
Let's start doing things as a community ,such as
A monthly competition,one level to be designed and evaluated by a panel of judges.
We could speak to some hosting sites to get the winner each month a free hosting for their demo,Perhaps on the profoundly underrated FPS files site.
A NOOB corner,where newbies can get answers to some simple problems etc.
If we do nothing about the current situation we will destroy something that is worthwile and has a lot of potential.

(Feel free to flame or direct hatemail at
Johnathan@Nanotech.co.za
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 17:03
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Good to see a more positive attitude here, thanks for posting.

I would like to see FPSC stuff in the newsletter, like a level design compo as you say - once things settle down here I imagine things like that should happen, maybe even let people mess with the demo and possibly win a full copy.

For things like that to happen, this place would have to be a bit neater, not so much negative stuff - I mean, if this place was your house would you invite anyone round? - it's far too embarassing right now for publicity to be very effective.

FPSC is getting a makeover, so like a lot of us keep saying, hang in, and we're sure things will improve soon - and if attitudes improve along with FPSC then this will be a different (happier) place altogether.

Aegrescit medendo
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ZAKU
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 17:10
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Thanks for the comments.
I think we can start the level comp in June,I'll ask around and get somewhere to host the files,be warned though we may get more trouble than we expected LOL.
Can we open a level design Competition Sticky?
I agree with being embarrased by the current forum,If people could only understand that if the community does something positive we all benefit in that FPSC will be something to be proud of and we might get a bit more attention.
Discouraging modellers due to the prices of their Model packs doesn't exactly motivate them to do the next one , does it?
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 17:10
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Other than Van most mod steer clear of the the FPSC boards. They are out of hand, so it is time to get some new mods here. See my thread about this elsewhere in this board.

Bite my shiny metal ass
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ZAKU
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 17:15
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That sums up the severity of the problem nicely,I looked around but can't find the other topic.
It would be sad if this were the case.
(Pity the new MODS?)
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Wesker
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 17:38
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I could host the winner of the level design contest :X

:ull's my string:: You're reading me talk!
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ZAKU
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 17:41
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Wesker,thank you,the sizes will most probably be around 40 mb for a single level,and restrictions on downloads etc?
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xplosys
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 18:25
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Quote: "Recently these forums have taken a serious turn for the worse"


I hope your wrong. What I see is a period of transition. In transition, some people change their ways and others leave. I have seen members changing through pressure from other members. I would like to think ( hope ) that we are making changes for the better.

The recent news from admins and mods is most welcome, as is their increased presence. Hopefully, this will calm some of the worry concerning the future of FPSC. We do tend to be a bit impatient.

Until I'm proven wrong, I'm going to go with "taking a turn for the better".

Crazy Grandpa
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 18:35
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if i was a mod...

i would clean up these forums a bit.

also, it hasnt been recently, its been like this for almost a year, since fpsc hit store shelves. it is about time that these forums follow stricter guidlines.

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KeithC
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 18:41
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If the level design competition turns into anything, I may be persuaded to offer up my WWII Pack as a prize.

I agree with VanB, it's nice to see something positive for a change.

-Keith


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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 18:43
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level design compo? I'll throw in E.C.S. pro too!

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ZAKU
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 18:54
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That's great,check out the thread in models and media and lets get things rolling.
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soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 19:01 Edited at: 3rd May 2006 19:03
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Monthly compo sounds good, might even be tempted to have a go if I can find the time to get the hang of FPSC.

EDIT:: If you're still looking for any hosting I've got 250mb going unused right now. It's not much but if you ever need it just yell.

I AM A MORON
and won't change my sig until I get off my oversized behind and finish a project.
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Wesker
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 19:38
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Yeah let's keep the file size under 40mb not really due to contrainst but to make it more of a challenge to the competitors, and I have 100gb of bandwidth so I think it should be enough for this competition.

:ull's my string:: You're reading me talk!
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uman
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 20:07
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If you'd have been here as long as I have you would know that the forum has in fact gone through numerous transitions and is in a better condition at the moment than any time perhaps since V1 release which kinda opened the jack in the box somewhat.

Things before V1 were a little more serious perhaps and the forum slowly returns to that status.

Unfortuneately we lost some good memebrs along the way.

There are certainly not enough serious threads about actual gamemaking and problem solving or game design issue which enlighten other users with actual answers which could make their game making experiences more pleasurable, but that will change and things will improve as FPSC and the users understanding and achievements with it progress futher.

At least hopefully so.

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K Jah
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 20:53
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You could use http://www.filefront.com to host the files and then post the winners/competitors on a page on the FPSC website.
I also think that maybe the amount of posts that a user has to have approved should be improved, this would probably lessen the amount spammers/flamers on the forums.

K-Jah

>>http://kwgamestudios.proboards62.com Forum<<

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KeithC
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 21:02
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I don't think increasing the amount of time/posts would be a great idea. I almost left the forums before becoming a full member because of the extensive wait time (2 weeks for me). It got pretty frustrating on my end.

-Keith


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Essal
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 21:25
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Well spokan ZAKU.
Probably wont join the lvl competition, but thats because I'd rather do more stuff for the community.
but I do have one thing to say:
When I told the Forum that I was leaving for a while, that was because people where asking me up on some of my offers, so I wanted to inform them that I would not be there. not to get any pitty or anything.

Killer Snails are Good-------------------
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Just One Old Man
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 21:35
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I like the idea of a cleanup here, and of the competition. Might help get this place back on track.

I haven't talked to KeithC about it yet, but Ozark Games would be glad to host the competition files. We have just set up a download area for specific purposes like this. Though there isn't much there yet, you can check it out at:

http://www.ozarkgames.com/pafiledb/pafiledb.php

I think it would work well for this. Also, we would be happy to create an FPSC folder on the site to host a page describing what this is all about and directing the user to the download area (there could also be direct download links on the page). I'm sure one of the users here would be willing to create the page. If multiple pages were required it wouldn't be a problem.

I'd also offer creation of a board on the OG forums for this, but I think it would work better kept here. We're absolutely not trying to take any traffic away from TGC, but having the pages and file downloads at OG would be a cleaner way to do it than filefront or the other download sites.

We have 500GB/month of bandwidth, so it wouldn't be an issue, and many of the users here have downloaded files from OG at one time or another, so you know what you're getting.

Just an offer because we'd like to see things get better here too. No problem if people would rather do something else.

/JOOM

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ZAKU
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Posted: 3rd May 2006 22:16
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Thanks
I think with you and a couple of other all providing hosting fro the comp we should get a better response.
Thanks for the offer,we'll defintely do it that way.
Now we need some entrants.
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Just One Old Man
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Posted: 4th May 2006 00:29
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Sounds like it would be a fun thing to do, but if we end up hosting it I don't think we'll play. Besides, I already have a copy of KeithC's pack.

If we get at least a minimum number of people involved, it won't take long to get everything set up. Somebody will have to come up with rules, etc., and we'll have to hear back from people. Could be just the thing to get everyone off the flame/slam/slap thing.

So, who's interested???

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ZAKU
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Posted: 4th May 2006 00:46
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@Essal,thanks,Inever meant you,your one of the guys actively contributing to the forum.
I'll start things off,I have a small uninteresting level.
Obviously I'm not eligible for anty prizes but it may serve to kick things off.
Where do I upload it to?
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 5th May 2006 05:15
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I think that maybe people's views are a bit skewed. I'm still relatively new to the forums and I've found them really welcoming. People offer me constructive critism and help.
But there's a difference. I've read all the documentation, and before I ask for help or free stuff I always try and do it myself. I dont think people are neccessarily hostile or negative, I think experienced users just resent being asked for help from people who have made no effort to try something for themselves.
I mean, why make a weapon FPSC ready for someone, if it means that person will never learn how to do it for themselves?

I fully agree that there are a stupid number of posts asking for things that have either been asked before, or looking for solutions to problems answered in the manual (or just by common sense). So perhaps the answer is not to flame and discourage, but just to ignore these posts. If someone recieves no help, they might just try and work it out for themselves.

anyway, that's my view. Nice work with the competition ZAKU, sorry for being suspicious in the other post, I hadn't seen this one!!

"Guns for show, knives for a pro."
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Mr Love
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Posted: 5th May 2006 05:38
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Or why not a top 5 list with the five best games at the moment, and there all forum members can vote for the best games! It wourld be cool if this "toplist" wourld be at the welcome site. I think that a list of this kind shourld go on forever and why not a small prize to this weeks or months winner? Just an idea.....


Menu Extreme! The answer to Your save & load problem...
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Just One Old Man
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Posted: 5th May 2006 05:41
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ZAKU, were you asking me about uploading? I thought you were talking to Essal, but thought I'd better check. Let me know...

Butter fingers, I agree mostly, but I've mentioned here and at other forums before that sometimes a new user just doesn't know what to search for, or look for in the manual. I'm always reminded of the "individual" who walks into the auto parts store and asks for a 710 cap to replace one they'd lost off their engine. The counter person thought the individual was nuts till the individual finally wrote it down and the counter person happened to read it upside down.

If you know exactly what you're looking for, there's no excuse for not using the search or looking in the manual, but if all you know is that you want to make the thingamajig change the properties of the dohicky when you click on the whichamabob, it gets harder. And more frustrating.

Then again, how do you know who really needs to ask, and who's just being lazy? Oh well...

So, what's the word on the competition, anybody interested in doing something more productive with the forums?

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Just One Old Man
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Posted: 5th May 2006 05:42
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Mr Love, that's a good idea too. Or maybe the five best levels?

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ZAKU
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Posted: 5th May 2006 12:05
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One old,
Yes I was asking about uploading.
Post the uploads so we can get started.
We can always have the best five list once the first entries start coming in.
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KeithC
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Posted: 5th May 2006 14:47
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I like the "best of" idea as well. You've got my Pack, and Tim's ECS as prizes so far....how about it, Sinistar?

-Keith


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ZAKU
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Posted: 5th May 2006 15:04
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Please post the prizes pack info into the showcase thread,I'm busy finalizing the rules etc and I'll also sponsor anything on the site to te value of $10
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dennisb
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Posted: 5th May 2006 15:27
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I am new to the forum too, and like butter fingers, am having a good experience with it. I find the people here quite helpful. I think the people with some hostility are just a few. But no one has flamed me or anything, I have just seen that in some threads. But really it is not so bad. I don't think the forum is something to be embarrassed of.

Dennis The Frogman
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Just One Old Man
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Posted: 5th May 2006 21:16
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ZAKU, had a lot to do at work, just getting back to this. I'll set up the web folder and get the upload information on here tonight.

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jaba
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Posted: 5th May 2006 22:35
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what am i noticing? alot of the negative people arent posting in here in this thread. For the author of this thread, your post says alot about what needs to change especially the attitudes of the people here new people like myself need help and not flames. Now I see alot of ignorant people on these forums and most i'll bet are kids or teenagers. They go through a stage where they think there safe behind the computer screen, but there not

Im in my 20's and i'm horrifie by the rudeness of people on the internet, this is why I want there to be more about the internet in schools to teach kids what can actually happen if they piss the rong person off

As of these forums we just got to ignore what people say when there fighting a senceless battle in cyberspace its senceless.

Now I myself can't spell the best byt I can get my point across just fine, I never finished high school, nor collage and can't spell perfectly, but when you flame a person for spelling something rong or just because there posts arent perfect ?

Change should be upon here,

ps: One thing that could change is the waiting we need to spend ive ben here for a week and cant post without approval

MayNeed to Grimsom things up a lil
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K Jah
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Posted: 6th May 2006 02:17 Edited at: 6th May 2006 02:23
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Post approval is essential, if it was any shorter I'd bet we'd be flooded by hordes of noobs all crying gimme gimme gimme, with no please or thankyou, just "this is carp, you sock" (Intentional). What's a few weeks of waitng compared to years of free posting. Once you're in, you're in. Give yourself a pat on the back and tell yourself it was worth the wait. Because it will be.

Hell yeah it's annoying but everone goes through it. This process was implemented for a reason. It sould not go away.

KW

EDIT: Rather than double post:
Could it be possible that FPSC is being completely re-designed from the ground up using C++ or something? To me this would explain the release of the source code as it would no longer be neccessary.

Sorry about off topic.

>>http://kwgamestudios.proboards62.com Forum<<

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code master
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Posted: 6th May 2006 04:37
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Seeing as how TGC is updating DBP, that dosn't semm likely. If I were them, I'd just rewrite 100% in DBP.

"I don't bite her, i just slobber on her" "I remember things as well as a retarded goldfish, who just swam through the chicago river"

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Steve J
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Posted: 6th May 2006 04:56
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ZAKU, I would be happy to help you with the level competetion, and have 6 gigs of free storage un-used right now. I also can code in php, and do web design. I will email you tonight setting up a proposal. Finally order to chaos.

Evil Mods keep erasing my below 600x120 sig...
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 6th May 2006 14:12
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ZAKU, well spoken! Let's all try to make this place a more pleasant place to visit.

I totally love FPSC. I do own a number of game engines and I like them, but FPSC is much more user friendly and effecient. It has been a long time since I created a game, but with FPSC I did get some new inspiration and was able to finally finish my long wanted project.

Started the game in 2 different engines before trying it in FPSC. The other engines couldn't deliver, the bugs killed the game. Those engines also do cost a lot more then FPSC.

Then I came accross FPSC and bought it for a completely different project, but in the end decided to give it a try for the game also. The result is a finished game at last! FPSC may have shortcomings and bugs, but once you get to know the engine and find workarounds for the bugs, then nothing stands in the way of creating a game.

FPSC rocks, now we only need the forum to rock also. But I'm glad some mods have taken interest in this forum again and banned some people who were anooying all of us. I'm sure this place can be a nice place to visit if we all try!

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Tom0001
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Posted: 7th May 2006 01:40
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Pah, if I was a mod this board would change quite a lot and for the BETTER.

Tom

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FredP
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Posted: 7th May 2006 23:15
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The word "dictator" comes to mind...
Just kidding,Tom.

FLa
Where you can find my demo:http://www.savefile.com/files/6970524
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Lucifer
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Posted: 7th May 2006 23:21
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Quote: "Those engines also do cost a lot more then FPSC."


did you try torque? it is cheap and good

juice is made from oranges....

http://whatishl.ytmnd.com/ so friggin funny!
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th May 2006 00:21
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No didn't try it... played with the demo over year back and liked it, but didn't like the license at that time. I've noticed they've changed it by now.

But two things have stopped me from buying Torque. The engine is presented kind of confusing at times. With the recent changes to the website it's getting better, but still. If you really want a good overview of what you're buying, you need to read a lot of info and follow and dig up lot of links.

Secondly models or should I say lack of models. As a lot of you may know by now, I can model, but I don't do characters at all. FPSC and other engines come with a good selection of characters. Torque lacks them.... big time.

So, I'll stick with FPSC and if I want to move on to something else, I'll most likely give DBPro a try.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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FredP
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Posted: 8th May 2006 00:32
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I'm sticking with FPSC.I am going to point-and-click my way to immortality...

FLa
Where you can find my demo:http://www.savefile.com/files/6970524
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ZAKU
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Posted: 9th May 2006 11:24
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Well Guys,after trying to get everything organized and announcing the Comp in the Showcase thread,I judge the response to be slightly LESS than friendly. LOL
It seems that instead of jumping at the opportunity,everyone was more concerned about my status as a regular user and not a MOD and the fact that I could not possibly be trusted.
Well,all good intentions aside,does this prove my initial point?
So,any ideas?
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FredP
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Posted: 9th May 2006 14:47
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There are several reasons that I didn't enter my level in the competition.
I had a level I was going to enter but this is what I believe you said the rules were:
WW2 level.My level is a modernday/horror level and that is the type of game I am working on.At this point I can't shift my focus in that direction.I was going to wait until next month but then...
Only free media or media you made yourself.My level includes stuff from Gravematter as well as the new sprite pack that I just added.So I couldn't enter this level anyway.
I have the first game I made.It is WWIIish and is all stock media because I used the demo to make it.I can enter it if you want.
I think the contest is a good idea.Just because you didn't get very many posts does not mean nobody is interested.For some reason that just the way these forums work.Don't get discouraged.I have an idea for a prize I might be able to put up for the winner.If that happens I won't enter my game.It is one level,BTW.

FLa
Where you can find my demo:http://www.savefile.com/files/6970524
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th May 2006 17:03 Edited at: 9th May 2006 17:25
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My pack would be a good prize for a WW2 level competition (assuming the winner didn't already have it )

EDIT: I've posted over in your showcase thread.

-Keith


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uman
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Posted: 9th May 2006 18:44
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Ive been working on the same couple of levels since before EA was released and have not finished one level yet. I adjudge the work to be not worthy as yet for entering any kind of comeptition or anything else of that nature - otherwise I would support your competition maybe.

Its been some time since I even posted in my own screen shot thread.

Hopefully I will make better progress the rest of this year.

Good luck with the competition.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th May 2006 20:07
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I'm not entering the compo either. Why?

WW2 doesn't excite me at all and I don't see the reason for the media restriction at all.

Media is part of a good level. A competition limited to the stock media only is very much delimiting the artistic freedom and inspiration needed for a a good level.

Since we've got to enter an exe, I don't see why the limit is enforced.

I'm sure we could all enter the competition with stock media, but you already lost my interest in the compo altogether. I love seeing custom media and stock media mixed with custom media. Seeing another stock media fpsc level or screenshot doesn't exite me anymore.

By limiting media and theme you've ruled out a lot of potential participaters imo.

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KeithC
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Posted: 9th May 2006 20:23
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What's to keep this competition from evolving over time? There's nothing wrong with a defined theme each month (they do the same thing in the 3 Dimensional Chat section). If WW2 isn't your thing, and you're already dead-set against even trying; then wait for the next competition.

As it says in the other thread, we may start this off by having everyone enter a .FPM file (since it will all be stock models). There's nothing to say that things won't change for the next one. Hell, we could even have a competition that is based on custom work; that would be nice to check out.

Not everyone is going to enter for various reasons, and that's fine. But (like I said in Showcase), this may be a last-ditch effort for someof us here to revive this forum. I don't think limiting it to stock media will limit 'artistic freedom' at all. I've seen some mediocre levels, and some outstanding levels done with stock media.

This competition has to start somewhere, and this is the best way to enable everyone to participate.

-Keith


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uman
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Posted: 9th May 2006 20:54
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Personally I dont use much stock media and dont make WW2 levels either so its not relevant to me anyway I guess.
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FredP
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Posted: 9th May 2006 21:16
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I think by limiting the media he is trying to keep the cometition fair.As I said before the type and media restrictions mean I can't enter what I was going to before but I might be able to enter something else.Maybe we sould let the winner of each contest pick the next contest,themes,restrictions,etc.
This is something we can do and I think as a communtiy we should support this.My understanding is that there are some cool prizes,too.
Zaku,keep on with the contest.I am behind you 100%.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th May 2006 21:36
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I understand the bit about the fairness, but there's a whole other issue also.

This post is about the future..... if we really want to give this forum and FPSC a much brighter future, we need to put a challenge before people and show the world out there what we can do and fpsc is really able to achieve.

Looking at the showcase forum one very quickly gets the impression that FPSC always produces the same kind of output. Now TGC is running the screenshot compo and the result is marvelous, people are really in for a good challenge there and are creating some awesome screenshots.

The TGC compo challences people to go to the max and create something outstanding. This compo should do the same, allow us to create some stunning levels showing that FPSC can get beyond the common stuff.

Let's just face it, most of us will not create a seperate level for a compo, we'll use what we have. Again look at the screenshot compo, most people use what they have and the difference between using stock media to put together a quick level for the compo and originality is starting to show very clearly..... The people who enter the stunning stuff are simply just entering screenshots of their current projects..... project we haven't even seen announced.

I'm in for a challenge, I believe a lot of us are, but do give us a real challenge and help FPSC rise above the common.

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