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Geek Culture / To Indi, in reguards to his rules post

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Arrow
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:28 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 08:28
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First off, why is the "Elimination of Evil" thread still going? It has broke all but one of the rules you posted.

Secondly and more importantly, aren't you worried that you're making some people a little parnoid? These aren't new rules, they're a good set of gidelines, but I've noticed that some people are starting to act a bit on edge. I mean all due respect, but you've started a few mild flamebaits with Raven, despite all good attentions. I fear people will be afraid to have a counter opinion because they feel they're posts will get deleted or, at worst, they may get banned. I come here to relax, but I'm starting to feel a little constricted. Just my humble opinion (please don't ban me).

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:30 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 08:31
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arrow cmon...that post just popped up give it time!

as for censorship...as long as u dont go about personally attacking people I think it wouldn't be a problem

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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:37
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first off, your welcome to your own opinion as long as it is confined within the rules and guidlines of this forum service.

2ndly Im aloud to have my opinion also and Im human so I may not get along with everyone.

I usually use a lot of reservation also when u think Im flaming.


I havent banned anyone yet and let many things slide until now.

These rules are a guideline yes so you have an idea of what is expected.

I dont have a notepad with ticks against your name itching to ban you if thats what your suggesting.

Just follow the guidlines and you will be welcome to use this service and priveledge.

Everyone now has 3 strikes and theres a few more mods now to keep these things in check.

Ill check that post now, In the future a message saying it was out of order would have made it easier for any mod to address.

a proactive approach to problems would have yielded a better result.
You can make my job harder or you can make this place great to visit.
Thats up to your actions tho.

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Arrow
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:38
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I'm just conserned that someone might feel they can't reply to a post they disagree with without it sounding like a flame. It can be very difficult in some cases to strongly disagree with someone without it sounding like an attack. I want to get rid of all the pointless flames too, but not at the risk of losing anyones voice.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:45
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well we'll just have to see how things pan out...I'm sure rich will get many emails if things aren't going so well

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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:46
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I have all the opportunity to ban raven for his outbursts but do u see him being banned after more than 3 guidline rule breaches.?

No, we try to be patient with everyone.

sometimes tho it goes to far and things have to be put in place.

I think you will find these guidlines are easy to follow and if u have an issue then take it up with the DBS team.

If you feel your hard done by and cant curb your insults/rascim/flames then maybe u should reconsider why you use a forum as tool and a priveledge.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

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Arrow
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 08:59 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 09:00
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I'm not trying to make you job harder, I'm just don't want this place to become dead of conversation. Conflict breads creativity, if people are scare to voice opinions this place will die. I hope the three strikes are big ones, banning someone over one foul word, one slightly too hot comment, and a desagreement with another member will leave a bad taste in our mouths. I also hope that good behavior is taken into account, by the 3 strikes rule, I'ld be banned, despite the fact that I, for the most part, am a pretty mellow guy. I hate the idea of having to watch my step ever time I disagree with someone. I have confedence that you guys will be fair, but is still makes me nervous. I have opinions too, some boardline in ensencity as Raven's, however I try my best not to go overboard, it's just that some people take offence quicker than others.

By the way, that "please don't ban me" was ment as a joke. If I was that worried about being banned I won't have posted at all. I am worried though that people will do just that, we're on the same side, Indi, we both want this forum to be a better place.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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DangYankee
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 09:47 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 09:47
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So long everybody , Indi just deleted my censorship post so I will no longer support darkbasic, I can teach them c++
You can delete my account too indi..

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 09:54
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If your leaving for your post being deleted then bye bye.
No one is making you stick around.


Your still welcome here but its your own issue with cencorship and forum guidlines.

I made it clear to you and answered your questions but u dragged the war into it.Its obvious you dont like the new rules and I wont be telling you otherwise.

Its your life buddy.

I deleted the post because it went off track and you tried to pull it down into a debate that was not going anywhere.

The new guidleines are in place for a reason.
If u cant follow them then no one is holding you to stay.
shoot yourself in the foot anytime you want without our approval.

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DangYankee
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 09:57 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 09:59
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Only the people that read it know the truth..and you erased it. Kinda proved my point. but you will erase this too

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
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large_nostril
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 09:59
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I'm pretty sure you provoked him to do it.

If you want fresh underwear in the morning, take it off the night before.
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DangYankee
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:00
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No swearing was involved LN, pretty silly too..

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:03
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yep DY is starting to become a bit of a martyr and an atagonist.

lets hope DangYankee hangs around and does something positive with his DBC DBP experience.

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large_nostril
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:07 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 10:10
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"I deleted the post because it went off track and you tried to pull it down into a debate that was not going anywhere."
Indi, I am in general in support of the new guidlines, but that's not part of them.

Just because a post divigates from it's initial context, doesn't mean it should be deleted.

You may try to set it aside as saying it was turning to a flamebait, but you can't becasue it was due to your relies that it was set in that direction.

And Dang, I did get a chance to read most of you post up until about 10:20.

[-edit-]
Oh yeah, and if you deleted it because you thought it was irelevant or didn't like where it was going, then there is a problem.

If you want fresh underwear in the morning, take it off the night before.
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DangYankee
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:12
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I just didn't agree with him, better watch out..

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:15
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it was deleted because it was becoming a breading ground for assault against the new policies...the same things were being said...and basically they were whining...im behind indi on this one

and I did read the entire post...up to the last one where Indi posted..'this message will now be deleted shortly' or something like that...for reasons stated in this thread

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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:25
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if u have any issues then take them up with DBS.

other than that enjoy your coding and game dev projects.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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DangYankee
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 10:50
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I will and thank you Iam not mad at you, no matter what you may think.

It's not the size of your code but how efficiently you use it!
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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 11:34
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whatever

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darkCorridor
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 12:55
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just to proove your point i wanted to post a reply to here it was only saying i dont agree and i didn't because i like my account

[br]mikey
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 14:11 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 14:19
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Quote: "mediocre to warm flamebaits regardless of intention."


Good job, 'bout time there was some order around here as i'm getting a bit sick of the soap opera going on with certain persons on the boards and finding every thread taken over by their childish bickerings.

If this gets rigorously enforced for now to sort out the current problem then I will give these boards another chance, as things stand i'm very close to saying 'i'll be darned if I want to read another episode of those two children slagging each other off'.

/applaud Indi

EDIT:
I tried to be non-specific but when I read back through the thread it sounded more like I was saying 'ban Raven' and that's not what I meant. I am not taking the side of Simple and Indi, as Indi is so obviously allied with Simple given previous postings and indeed references in this very thread.

Actually I just want an end to the bickering, but given Simples childish and unrelenting pedantacism I think Raven has 'for the most part' acted very maturely, although not without blame. I see nothing in Simples posts but twisted truth and outright slagging off.

If I had to pick a side, and i've tried not to thus far, I would not look favourable upon Simple & Indi.

That said, i'm happy for it just to stop however this happens, and hope that Indi is able to address this issue fairly and without prejudice.

And before you say 'I am not Simples ally'. Think very carefully about the history of this, because for all intents and purposes you have applied your moderation in a very one-sided fashion. That is the image you have cast, whether it is true or not.

And yeah, I am this fed up to post this. I want to read programming threads and talk about computer games, if I got off on watching arguments i'd watch East Enders.

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Simple
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 14:17
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Hmmm ! I'm all for rules etc ... in fact I think this should have happened a long time ago.

I have no problem with the guidline rules you posted ( I don't break those ones ) however.... I'm not too sure about this one ? >>

mediocre to warm flamebaits regardless of intention.

Not that I go out of my way to start flames, But I do sometimes have a GREAT difference of opinion. Especially when someone is just trying to act like the total expert on something, while there may be easier, better and simpler ways to achieve the same goal.

Lets face it... this is how most topics go off track >> one person will do something one way - and another a different way.... then they are in disagreement.

So would this be classed as starting to flame ???

Or does that rule only apply to already existing flamebaits ??

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indi
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 18:04
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I wouldnt worry simple.
There is no sides to this matter.

break the rules enough and you will be asked to leave.

Raven has taken the opportunity to be negative and countless times ive had to pull him up for his vulgar language.

Yet has he banned. no

This is an indication of how tolerate we are compared to other forums.


In another forum if u breathed wrong u would be banned followed by ip hacks and trojan emails for having a different view.

You can thank raven and his attitude for setting these new agendas as well as the countless young men with no moral compass entertaining us with there thoughts and views even if it was an insult.

If you cant live within invisible polite boundaries then we have to set them down as I fear respect is a very lacking quality here.


This forum is a priviledge you all share as well as me.

How about you show some respect for the people trying to keep it alive and to manitain it as cleanly as possible.

Try to step outside your own little shell and take on baord other issues we have to cover here.

We have a broad range of age groups so most things will have to stay within a general language bracket.

How about u try to elevate yourself over team slag matches and try not to form an opinion or base yourself on a "side"

Yes it has degraded but its not one persons fault its everyones.

The new guidlines are there to hopefully swing it back into line.

Now naturally there are always thos who thinks its cool or clever to challenge authority.

today I had that exact case from Dang Yankee, he tried everything from martyrism to condescending remarks regarding the new rules.

If u dont like the new rules then consult the DBS team for any grievances you may have.

You can single out people all like who u think is cool and drool.

Not everyone is going to get along in any case.

Try not to get caught up in your own little idealistic utopias about harmony and balance.

In order for us to manage these issues you are all now aware of the 3 strike rule which we dont want to enforce but is there as a precursor to those that forget this place is a priviledge and not your loungeroom.

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 18:26
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Ok, my big mouth shot me in the foot!

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Arrow
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Posted: 13th Apr 2003 22:47 Edited at: 13th Apr 2003 22:48
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It's the pharse "mediocre to warm" has got me worried, it only takes one post to do that. By deleting Yankee's post you only confermed this. Yes, I do want to get rid of flamebaits, but only when they get out of hand. I've seen quite a few post that were "mediocre to warm" that cooled down and turned out to be decent posts. I don't want to have to wonder if a thread I'm interested in is suddenly going to disappear because of someone runnig his mouth off.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 01:08
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also..its possible to delete individual messages..perhaps this would be a better way to control the flames?

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actarus
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 02:02
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You can do that on RGT...Since you're in control over there. j/k

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Simple
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 03:06 Edited at: 14th Apr 2003 03:06
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@PneumaticDryll ... you edited your post, so I'm going to add one.

You added to your post this comment >> ( I see nothing in Simples posts but twisted truth and outright slagging off.)

Yet I see NO twisted truth in any of my posts.

But on the other hand....and to quote you

QUOTE:

For gods sake you two cut it out. I've had enough of your bickering in nigh on every thread and i'm sure others have too. Shut up and get over it.

And my reply was:

PneumaticDryll >> don't read them then... Simple as that

Then YOU tried to twist the truth with this:

You are right I could leave the forums, but I think thats a very rude thing to ask when it's not even me who is acting to the detriment of the community.

And my reply to that:
So where exactly have I asked you to leave the forum ??

I suggest you read my post again.... it's only 7 words after all !! ... not quite sure how you managed to twist them.

So who tries to twist the truth ?? .... and my comment still stands >> if you see a couple of posts made by Raven or myself and you think it's childish bickering... Then DON'T READ IT.

And no one is asking you to pick sides. You have this habbit of trying to put your words into others mouths.

And if you think Indi is applying moderation in a very one-sided, fashion....then I think you are wrong ( again )

I don't use bad language to view my opinions, and I believe that is why some of Ravens posts have been censored/removed.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 03:21
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i hope this thread is deleted, this is all getting very old very fast.

all three of you are being so damn'd childish about everything, you are ALL grownups - its about time you acted your damn'd ages.

Simple keep flaming to the threads it started in, i don't care if your using it as evidence or not ... your attacks have no place here, the same goes to your Pneu - take your own advice mate and keep out of thier affairs.

and indi you're protagonising EXACTLY what your new rules are suppose to be stopping. Lock this thread and keep quiet!

had just about all i can take from all of you damn'd children around here, feel like i'm in a kindergarden surrounded by blasted 5yo's who just wanna throw paste at each other!
it's just about insufferable ... and be lucki i'm not a moderator else i'd of banned all of you for a week for causing such trouble over the past few days.

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Simple
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 04:13
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Veggie... shut up you Hypocrite. And like anyone is going to listen to the likes of you anyway. Thats half ya trouble, you like to act like you are a moderator...just another one of your fantasies I suspect.

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Arrow
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 07:10
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Hey, knock it off you two, can you even exist in the same thread for a minute without flaming each other? Jeeze, I started this thread so we could all understand how Indi plans to moderate the Forums and now you two turned it into a flamefest. I feel like I'm in a portest that is becoming a riot. If you two don't settle down the higher up will start cracking down much harder than they allready are. Every time you post in the same tread it's the same old crap. One of you two sayes something that can be taken morte than one way and the other takes the wrong and insults the other, starting another flamebait. Can't you two at least try NOT to insult someone in your postes?

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 11:14 Edited at: 14th Apr 2003 11:14
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Carefull Arrow - I said something similar as quoted by Simple above - he's now launching his onslaught against myself as evidenced above.

My advise to you Arrow is remove your post and stay out of it, i've avoided replying in that original thread and have nothing more to say to Simple directly because I know he'll only do what he has done above.

This is supposed to be a community about DB and making games, not his personal slagging arena where you suddenly have to stop a thread because it's been hijacked by the worlds worst written soap opera.

It's now him or me, and as Simple has moderator friendship in Indi, and continues to launch his unrelenting childish bickering but now at me also - i'm leaving these forums.

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indi
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 11:19
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Im trying to be objective here. I hope everyone can get past this few days of insults and differences of opinion.

I hope Simple tones it down also, the rift between raven and simple has been around for a while and Ive never found a way to interject or to prevent a flaming up without taking a side.

I hope we can all move along and not shoot ourselves int he foot over a few differences of opinion.

Im open to suggestions if u want to help me make this place better for all.

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indi
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 11:28
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btw who do i bill for the waisted day of moral teaching

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 11:37
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Him! *pointing to Shadow Robert, who just left the building*

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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Simple
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 13:54
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PneumaticDryll >> you attacked me first << .... I've never had a run in with you before, until that attack by you in another topic. So lay off me and stop twisting the truth, and I won't retaliate.

Arrow >> yeah, you're right ( SORRY )

Indi >> Again.. it's not your fault. The rift between us has been around for a long time and I'm sure we just make your job here harder... I'll try and tone it down. It's just that when I read some of his "i'm the total expert crap, so only listen to me rubbish" I find it hard to not say something.

Veggie >> Erm, Nothing !

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indi
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 14:28
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thanks mate, thanks for the effort

I dont like to have to interject with these problematic misinformation posts.
It waists my time and yours and doesnt acheive anything.

I know raven is a +3 like or -3 hate personality and misinformation can steer people the wrong way but in time if they are smart enough they will try all methods presented to them and see which result is correct.

Amongst all that EGO i do some good in him just barely so we know hes not pure evil.

Thnakyou everyone for making the new guidlines easy to setup

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 15:13
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Hehe, how did I miss all this action!

Nice Job Indi and the other mods, it's been too easy flame here for too long, maybe this will curb it into something more entertaining, I mean we can still have a laugh, just no personal comments. There's nothing funnier than a good dissing, especially if the victim see's the funny side and strikes back with something better.

We can't be mature and grown-up all the time! - but there's no reason why we can't be cival.


Van-B
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darkCorridor
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 15:26
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Indi to be honest it sounds to me like you could be causing a flame with out knowing it. Here we are talking about keeping nasty comments etc. out of it well the you are.
Quote: "Amongst all that EGO i do..."

Im sorry but im all for the new rules as long as EVERYONE uses them including the moderators. Its genrally plain Hypocritical what your doing your telling everyone to grow up but to me when i read your post i genrally only saw it as plain childish.

[br]mikey
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Simple
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 15:46 Edited at: 15th Apr 2003 01:36
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Yeah, I know what you mean Van

Even this topics started out as a normal discussion... and my first post was just a normal one refering to the subject in hand ( until PneumaticDryll ) came in and edited his post.

Yet everytime there is a topic which seems to have turned towards a flame.... people don't read how they got started in the first place. They just see the name "Simple" or "Raven" and think we were the one's that started it.

But I see half the people who are moaning about the flames are also the ones who have either started the flame or have been involved in feeding the flame. Some of them seem to forget that they were sometimes the ones who started them in the first place.

This topic being no different.

I suggest that before you all point the finger, you check who started the flame in the first place ( so you can point your finger in the right direction ) instead of just the direction which best suits you.

I here some people saying they want to leave the forum ( I don't think that you do ) I think you're just threatening too in the hope that the Mods will do what you want.

Cos if you really wanted to leave then you would just go, and not post about it and hang around to see how much sympathy you get.

I myself will try to restrain from getting involved in the PERSONAL side of posts.... But that doesn't mean that I won't post a different side to the subjet.

So all we can do from here is see how it all go's .... and for all those who want to see things settle down, well I'll try... lets see about the rest of you.

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

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indi
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 16:27
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guys its either your ID or EGO thats the scientific term for them.


I grow tired of snide remarks suggesting im causing this with inuendo.

I dont like raven personally but I can see that he works hard sometimes to help people and has just as many rights as the next person even tho he has stretched the line I think you know where im coming from.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Kentaree
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 16:35
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Wouldnt it be ultimately wise to lock this thread while its still no flamebait one, because that would kind of defeat the whole point of all this.

Whatever I did I didn't do it!
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Arrow
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 17:23
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The flamebait tag has it's purpose, it should be used in cases where mild to meduim flaming is sperractic but at the same time decent to good info has been posted. Deleting or locking posts should be a last resort. I see no reason to lock this thread now, the flames have stopped and soon it'll drift to the botom of the page.

Simple> People warn they might leave as to show the disapprovale for the currant situation. When you told PneumaticDryll to not read the post, it can be taken as to not read them all. Despite how the flames get started, it's who contenues them that's the problem. It's a problem that we all feel the effect of, one simply can't skip over a flame since it highjacks the whole thread.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 23:49
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This thread not flaimbait !?

I wish for Simples last few posts to be removed please moderator, in accordance with the new regulations and a 1st strike given. Actually I want him banned and here's why:

Strike me too for all I care, i'm not co-habitating a forum when myself and more famously another user is taking this kind of codswollop from another 'cummunity' member.

You know a good few years back now the BBC had to make a very strong point that the soap East Enders was not what we now call a fly-on-the-wall documentary, and that it was just fiction because the actress who played the evil 'Dot' or Dorothy Cotton was getting too much hate mail and death threats.

Thankfully the British people finally cottoned on (no pun intended) to the concept of evil characters on television... Although the script writers also dramatically changed her character and she's now one of the better liked hangers-on to the show.

I think there is a lesson for Simple in this. You need to realise this is a forum about DarkBASIC. It is not a rants forum, there are forums you can go to and argue anything you like - they can be quite enjoyable and great places to debate anything contraversial, politically sensitive or just let off steam by having a go at people - the DB forums are not such a place but for some reason you, Simple, come here to let off steam by insulting other community members.

You say I attacked you, what I actually did (and you have quoted it above) was ask - in a very blunt way - for the bickering to stop.

I did not point a gun at you when I did so. I made a request.

Since then you have turned the target of your attention on to myself. This has to stop also.

I don't give a flying fig whether you like me or not, but after this thread I will not stand for being threadjacked and belittled and take your snide remarkes in every thread like you have done to Raven.

Because your history with Raven has already proven that you cannot help yourself but to do this, I have no option but to ask the moderators to ban you or take the difficult decision to leave this forum myself.

It is a very sad state of affairs, but I will not be subjected to the Simple-treatment in the way that Raven has. I want closure on this and I want it sealed shut, one of us has to go or for Simple to have a labotamy, the decision is now out of my hands.

Andy Igoe
Pneumatic Dryll

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 23:51
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PS: With regards to the EDIT I did it immediately after my first post - in the interim your post appeared.

I did this because I had more to say after reading back through the message and thought it would be neater to edit rather than have a new message.

What is even sader, is that I have to explain this to you.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 00:29
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f***** hell another argument, who would have thunk it.

2ghz, ati radeon mobility 32mb DDR, 30gb, 256mb DDR ram, Win Xp

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 00:34
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... hey maww, the young 'uns is fighting agein!

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Simple
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Apr 2003 01:34
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LOL !!

Now you're getting Ridiculous.

I'm not going to quote what you said again ( as it's all written above ) plain as day. Even highlighted it in bold so it stands out for you.

It all boils down to the FACT that it was you who twisted the remarks, NOT me. ( maybe this is why you want those post removed ) ? I don't know, neither do I care really.

But anyways... correcting what you thought I said is hardly a bannable offence is it ??

This is my last post in this topic... so now you can talk about the BBC and Dot Cotton all ya like !!

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 01:47
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Uhm, whats Dot Cotton?

Whatever I did I didn't do it!
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Van B
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 01:55
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:-s You wanted to see....

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