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Geek Culture / 2,200+ NPC's IN ONE ROOM! — Next Gen Object Instancing. Post your thoughts.

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That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 17:31
I recently played a game on the XBox 360 that claimed online it could instance up to 400 unique NPC's instanced up to 2,200 times in one draw.

When I read this I almost laughed. So, to test it out, I went to a friend's house who has an X360 to play the game. THEY WERE RIGHT! There was actually one region in the game, in an underground level, that instanced a good 5,000+ NPC's.

I also noticed there IS NO PS3 VERSION. Why? The X360 has double the output the temp reference and uses DDR3 floats.

Here's a gameplay screenshot.



Post your thoughts.
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 17:51
Yes, well, the PS3 may be powerful but the design is rubbish. What idiots would make the CPU's memory speed so slow it's quicker to reference it through the GPU? Only Sony.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Chris K
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 18:02
That's Dead Rising right?

It's part of an exclusive contract with MS I think...

Dead Rising, Lost Planet + one more...

Anyway PS3 wasn't out when that came out.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Fallout
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 18:10
Yeah, it's pretty spesh. I always wanted to play dead rising, but I'm not a console fan boy and don't own a 360. Can't justify buying one as I don't like enough games on consoles.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 18:16
Yeah but it doesn't beat the crowds in Toca on the PS1 I mean they had several members of the crowd with awesome 2 framed animated alpha mapped single polygon models - nothing beats that!

I don't have any of these consoles and my PC is way out of date, so I need to wait before I can grasp the true awesomeness of new games - besides I'm going to wait for the PS3's to go down in price and grab myself a job before getting up-to-date.

Support the return of Cow-Fishing! Hook up Paris Hilton and die!
Van B
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 18:52
Dead Rising is a great game, and yeah, sometimes there's a freakin crazy amount of enemies, but that screenshot, and the figure of 5,000 NPC's is not convincing - I've never seen anything like the volume of enemies that screenshot shows. If it did, then you'd be dead in about 0.3 seconds!.

It's still a vital game for 360 owners, Fallout, wind in that neck and go spend some money you tight git! - all that zombie pwnage could be yours for less than £300, it's not something your likely to regret if your any sort of zombie fan. The only alternative would be a GameCube and RE4.

Buying a console is not a sign of weakness, personally I get much more of a laugh on XBox Live - I mean you'd loose yourself in GRAW2 and BF2 on Live Fallout, it's just a lot more relaxed than online PC gaming, which frankly bores the teeth out of me most of the time.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 19:13
The only thing with XBox live, is you get weird people mumbling over the mic

Then you get the odd nerdy fight, because some one got killed
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 19:19
Flatout 2's online play rules. On PC, it's completely free and it has voice chat. Sure, it's an old game, but my point is that a similar experience can be found on PC. Combine it with a free service like Steam, and you essentially have Live. Only free.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 19:56
@Van B

Did you see the parking garage underground? There HAS to be a good 3,000+ NPC's down there! I mean, it never ends, you drive and drive and drive and turn and drive and drive and drive and turn. NPC's are all over the place!
Xarshi
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 21:32
dx10 instancing is going to be about 100x crazier,cuz all of that would be only like,a couple of draw calls depending if you wanted to re use zombie meshes.

Hello
zenassem
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 21:48
While I'm impressed by the gfx aspect, does anyone have a link discussing the NPC AI in-depth? Those are the details that I would be most interested in.

Chris K
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 22:23
Here's the design doc for the AI:

- They're zombies.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 22:34
I'm not exactly sure. There isn't much info about the AI out there.

The game website says each zombie has their own unique skeleton along with animations. I just now counted 8 different approaches, 19 different attacks, 14 walking animations, and of course death/injury actions. I'm guessing that their are about 30-50, from the amount of objects you can use as weapons. You can use almost anything as a weapon!

As far as AI structure goes. I put the disc in my reader, looks like the 2 KB directory file lists AI scripts to be 914 KB each. Or at least they seem to be AI scripts. I know the AI of the zombies is programmed to be slower reaction time than the player, bacause the zombies are supposed to be just, well, zombies. Guessing from the file size of the directory script, I'd guess that 914 KB simple text file has A LOT of information to process. If that is the AI reference file, those zombies have a lot to process.
MikeB
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 22:35
Quote: "Here's the design doc for the AI:

- They're zombies."


Way to crush the childhood dream of "lead designer being the easy job", you're going to have so many 12 year olds crying

E.D.

Call me Mike please
zenassem
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Posted: 21st Jun 2007 23:10 Edited at: 21st Jun 2007 23:17
@ChrisK, I am going to take your response as a bit of sarcasm. Though you are right in I guess that they don't need to be the smartest group of NPC's. But given the fact that they are zombies, I'd still like to research some info on their Hording and Intercommunication processes/systems.

Basically I am interested in...
- Weapons (Do they have them? How many/what types/ranges? Do they use them effectively? (or is it a slaughter fest?) I see an axe in the screenie, and I am assuming that's the player.)
- Cooperative Agents
- Squad Members (Are they all independent? Do they work together? Are there groups and leaders?)
- Pathfinding
- Spatial Reasoning

What techniques are used
Obviously scripting was mentioned, but are some form of these employed as well...
- Finite-State machines
- Fuzzy-State machines
- Messaging Systems (how do they communicate between eachother?)

(Yeah here is where the ZOMBIES profile possibly simplifies things to an extent)
- Personality
- Creativity
- Anticipation
- Conversation
- Motivation
- Squad AI
etc...

I'm interested because I am currently reading up on this topic, and I can't imagine how I would do it for so many entities. Especially how often, these mosules would be called and updated. The only thing I can imagine, is some form of Master/Squad/Promotion type system, with information proliferating to the hordes.

Now if the game is on-line, that adds a whole other contingency to deal with. You don't want the AI or the player jumping ahead of the servers reality. Like I see myself killing an entity, but yet the server reality has him defending and alive a few frames later.

That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 05:40
It's not online.

Zombies
Weapons - Use their animations. There's a good 15 attacks for each zombie.

Co-op - None, unless ambushed.
Groups - Some are independent, others travle in hordes (please see below).

Directions - Follow any character that doesn't seem to be a zombie.


Human Cult (Humans, walking amongst the zombies)
Weapons - Mostly animations.
Co-op - CONSTANT CO-OP with other cultists.
Groups - Packs of 5-15.
Main AI - Considering these are humans, they are a very feared enemy.

Directions - One directs if the player or the "good guys" is spotted, the others follow. They cooperate to try and take down the player.

Player
Weapons - 50+ weapons in game, almost anything can be used.

Giant lipsticks displays to beat them off with, giant teddy bears, gumball machines (to make them trip once again), bats, chairs, benches, various guns, foam blocks, skateboards and various other toys, sporting goods, fire extinguishers and emergency materials, garage tools, vehicles, various lawn tools, fake trees in pots, food items (mostly for health) and of course much much more.
Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 06:42
@zenassem - It's very unlikely that a company would publish details of how they wrote their AI, but good luck finding that info

Try checking out the videos of the game in action from Gamespot or somewhere else--- there's tons of them. You can make out how the enemies react from them.

Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 09:27
Dead rising, i bought it for my 360, it does get about 5,000 in the underground tunnels... Its hard as heck down there, trying to get thru all of them, its easy if you dont break your car plowing thru them all tho

You'll Know When You See It.

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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 10:55
5,000 enemies on screen at once?

Give me a break.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Jess T
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 11:25
It's quite impressive, and I can see that much much more of this will pop up in the future.

The new faster computing and dedicated hardware combined with all the LOD and other trickeries of yester-year should make for some quite immersive worlds

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Manic
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 15:08
Quote: "5,000 enemies on screen at once?

Give me a break."


yeah, Did you stop and count them?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 15:31
4,731 enemies I'll have you know...took me a long time but I managed to count every single one.

Support the return of Cow-Fishing! Hook up Paris Hilton and die!
MikeB
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 18:01
Quote: "4,731 enemies I'll have you know...took me a long time but I managed to count every single one."


Awesome.


Mike B

Call me Mike please
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 18:04 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2007 18:05
Quote: "4,731 enemies I'll have you know...took me a long time but I managed to count every single one."

Wow. You're either a liar or the biggest dork in the world, ever. Either one is bad. If you're joking, please tell me.


Come see the WIP!
That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 18:17
5,000 not on the screen at once, but same map.


VAN B, GO UNDERGROUND IN THE PARKING GARAGE! THE FIRST DRAW SHOULD GIVE YOU A GOOD 2,000+ ENEMIES! NOT JOKING!

NOTE: It's 2,200 enemies on the first draw call. After the first draw call, the game will usually render up to 5,000 in the parking garage level.

Once you go down to the parking garage, I'm sure you'll agree with me.

-That C++ Nerd
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 18:24
Quote: "Wow. You're either a liar or the biggest dork in the world, ever. Either one is bad. If you're joking, please tell me."


Joking of course, I'm sure anyone who reads my posts will realise I don't even own an X-Box 360 - but had you not said anything I'm sure more people would have fallen for it. Anybody else who reads my posts will realise not to take me seriously most of the time.

Support the return of Cow-Fishing! Hook up Paris Hilton and die!
Manic
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 19:45
anyone notice that despite having all those different zombies to choose from, when they took that screen shot the 3 directly behind the player are the exact same one? Its a bit unfortunate really.

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That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 20:18
I noticed that too earlier. Actually there's 7 of them if you look closely. It says online there's 400 variations of 26 zombies.

I only counted 50 variations of 11 zombies. Unless there's something I'm not noticing.

Those game companies!
Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2007 22:02 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2007 22:03
Ok, in that underground tunnels level it's obvious what they did. They give you the illusion there's thousands of zombies, but as soon as you drive out of view of 1, it will get recycled and placed ahead of you again. It's not as if they need 5,000 zombies all individually placed on the map at once. Even if they did that, they will not be taking up resources as they're most likely disabled until they appear in view.

That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2007 22:20
Maybe. But how do you explain the large trail of un-animated zombies left after you've run over them with a car?

I think you're right, the ones that were never destroyed, are destroyed on call and respawn at a different point, but still retains a certain number of zombies.

You're right in a way, that seems to be the only logical way they could have done all that in one draw call.
zenassem
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2007 22:22
@Jeku,

Now that makes sense. And at current is the only way I could imagine it being done. That doesn't mean it' the only way, but It's something I could get my head around. Same principle in creating an endless forest. Now if only I had the game to test what happens to zombies when they leave your view, and how far the radius is in which their location and AI really isn't taken into consideration.

In other words, they get out past a certain radius, and they are either completely dropped by the AI, or the group is frozen and handles as a single point object, with some static data. Then when you come upon that point-space again, the data is exploded and unfolded. Recreating the # of objects. So if you think about it, it's akin to compressing image data like run-length-encoding, and then restoring it when it is needed.

Am I making any sense here?

That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2007 22:28
Yes. That also sounds logical, put in static. That might be the way it's done. It must be!
Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2007 22:29 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2007 22:30
Quote: "Maybe. But how do you explain the large trail of un-animated zombies left after you've run over them with a car?"


What I might do if I were responsible for that, is I would have X number of "alive" zombies, and Y number of "dead" zombies. Once you hit a zombie and it's lifeless, it could be dead--- and you could recycle the dead bodies in much the same way as you would with the alive ones. Hope that's clear. The amount of resources for tracking the coordinates of a dead zombie is really small-- just three floats I assume. Therefore the game will remember where you ran over zombies previously. If you turned around and drove back it would redisplay the dead zombies in their correct locations.

@zenassem - Yes you're right, there's many ways you could tackle something like this. These kinds of logic puzzles are one of the reasons why I would give anything to get into the AI field in the game industry

Zombie 20
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2007 23:00
-ahem- zombie fan

Dead Rising was one of the best games i played on the 360 before we saw the red ring of doom, along with that came lost planet and viva pinata. Now the game that dissapointed the crap out of me, Gears of War. I think they should have recalled and took another six months on it, I was terribly mad and dissapointed at the short story, the failed attempts to make Marcus Fenix a badass and the easy to see sequel as well as the miss of our giant creature friend which has been promised to us in the sequel. I mean, the boss fight was hard on the upper difficulties but come on it happened so fast and I just was not pulled in as I know Epic could have pieced a better opener for their amazing shooter.

Phew..sorry about the rant, I couldn't help it. Anyway, Dead Rising=Frank West=Photo Journalist turned Zombie Destroyer=ASWEOME!!!

Zombie (TheMoaningKiller)

Van B
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 16:11
That's what I've been trying to say Jeku - there's absolutely no engine on this earth that could handle 5000 enemies at once, not even something as simple as a zombie.

I'm not disputing the fact that there's a shedload of them in the underground section, it's damn impressive down there - but it's not handling 5000 zombies at once, not by a long chalk.

That's why it's zombies in this game in the first place - you simply wouldn't get that amount of enemy in another genre of game, the zombies only need to wander around unless they get close to the player, otherwise they're just, well zombies avoiding each other. Once one of them is out of view the engine could simply reuse them closer to the player, nobody would really notice because there's so many of em, as opposed to a FPS game where respawning enemies near the player is very much frowned upon.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Fallout
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 16:41 Edited at: 25th Jun 2007 16:44
Yeah, my zombie simulator which was the bare minimum of AI code could only really handle 5000 zombies at once. Now, I dont know how an AMD4000+ cpu compares to an XBox360 CPU, nor how much less efficient DBP code sitting on windows is, compared to the Dead Rising engine, but either way, there's no way 5000 zombies could be intelligently processed.

Edit: @Van - Btw, on the console front. I really don't play enough games to warrant buying a console. And the games are so much more expensive. Just not enough of a game fan to justify that expenditure, especially with all the other expensive hobbies I've picked up recently. Racing cars, motor bikes, remote control planes .... on my wage!!!


Van B
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 17:02
Hehe I got a 360 yesterday (another one, giving my other one to my bro for his b-day now) with a HDD, wireless controller... £50!

Right place right time, the place and time is right about when some chav is being thrown out of their flat and they have no money and are forced to sell their possessions in order to live . I'd feel slightly guilty if it wasn't a chav, he named the price and I chewed his hand off.

I know what you mean about the expense, but if you get lucky and find a 360 going cheap, well I don't think you'd be disappointed with the online FPS action available to Live subscribers.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Fallout
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 17:14 Edited at: 25th Jun 2007 17:15
Quote: "I don't think you'd be disappointed with the online FPS action available to Live subscribers"


Yes I would! Goddamit! I would! I loathe FPSs on consoles with a passion. Well, not the console itself, but the input device. Just can't compare a gamepad to a mouse, and as an old skool PC FPSer, it's very hard to adjust to the gamepad. And it feels a bit pointless. I liken it to being let into a play ground with loads of cool toys, but you have to severe your limbs in order to play them.

For me, console controllers are great for platformers, beat 'em ups, and sports games. They're ok for racing games, but obviously a wheel is better. But they're rubbish for FPS games when compared to the mouse.

However!!!!! If someone was flogging a 360 for £50, I would indeed buy it, but would assume it was stolen goods!


Van B
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 17:29
You get used to it - I mean I'm just as fast on the 360 as I am on a mouse, I actually got a good laser mouse for FPS games but that didn't make much difference, but these days I'm used to analogue strafing and clicking the analogue to zoom in on my kill. See that's where the PC and console debate falls down, there's that damn digital strafing on PC's, with consoles your strafe is analogue and is half your aim!. You have to master aiming with the right analogue but making the vital adjustments with the strafe. I'm only OK at PC shooters though, I must admit that I mostly play consoles games these days.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Lazlazlaz 1
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 17:56
going back up the thread a bit

zenassem - check out Assassins Creed and its crowd AI

Currently working on an un-named 2D Space RPG based on the Firefly/Serenity universe
That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 18:28
I don't think I'll wind up buying a next gen console unless they drop to $200. I'd rather just keep re-building my computer more and more.
zenassem
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 21:48
Lazlazlaz 1, Thx, i'll take a look at it. I remember reading about it in a few issues of EGM.

zenassem
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Well I have been reading up on LOD AI, and given the fact that these are zombies eliminates a large percentage of the load we would normally have to contend with for an NPC.

If they weren't zombies, no one would give credence to NPC characters on a kamikaze mission, stepping over piles of dead bodies on there patrol. Also the animations frames can be tweaked without it being spotted so easily, and zombies tend to move in a jerky, simplisitic animation to begin with. So basically we are dealing with a large amount of entities with a One-Track mind!

Now what I have been reading about LOD AI seems to coincide wiht my intuition on the topic, but also defines more ranges, and tweak parameters. So here's a basic list of LOD

Off screen and faraway/close. Characters in this categroy are completely nonexistent to the player. When he's not seen, don't run his AI at all, because he's not influencing anything. You might want to continue playing his sound occasionally if he's close to the players location, but not if there is a selaed door between the player and him.

Very Far Off. A character in this LOD would be visible as a pixel or two. Stnad still. The view distance is so far tha even moving the character is unecessary because it will only translate to a few pixels worth of movement.

Far Off. Characters are now visible as solid colors, and possibly shapes, but no real detail yet. You can tell a monster from a humanois, and tell a truck from a car. Slide the character (don't animate, pathfind, or avoid, just slide) occasionally back and forth in a straight line. This will give the illusion of activity in the worls, without all the work.

Medium. This distance would be your true area of sight, determined more by the camera angles use in your game, as well as the depth fog starts to clear. A good distance mught be somewhere areoun 40 and 70 yards. For this disatance just run the regular AI becuase this guy isn't performing expsensive calcs.

Close. Anything closer than medium is considered close. Run the normal AI but adjust the update frequency level. The closer the character is to the player the higher the update freq.

Interaction The character is interacting with the player in some way. At this level, everything is on, and the AI is updating at the highest frequency level that it needs to make intelligent decisions.


Freq update and Load balancing. For characters within the human players immediate area, AI decisions might be updated very frequently, upwards of 10-30 times per second. For off screen elements, this might fall to a figure of 2-5 timpes per second or less. Nonessential behaviors (eye candy) can be reduced to not updating at all, if need be.

When setting up these schedules, try to load balance your update calls, so that you're not updating ALL of a SPECIFIC TYPE OF LOD level 3 every 15 game loops or ticks. Rather, offset their starting update time, so that each individual unit still only updates every 15 ticks, but only a few units of that type update each tick.

That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 04:14
I have seen that done in games before, you can tell. I saw in one game when NPC's run, their arms don't even move, just their legs. In this game, it could be a number of possibilities.

The AI system for every game is different.

Oh well, hopefully this will get locked as well.

-That C++ Nerd
zenassem
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 05:55
Just out of curiosity, why do you want this to get locked? I think it has provided great discussion. I'm still amazed by the AI, as the even the distibuted LOD AI, I think i can implement would be only on par as what was done in the original Half-life. (I remember seeing entities move behind glass well before I got up to them, and scientists working on equipment. I still wonder how close I could get to 2,200-5,000.

BTW, here's another thing I just learned. If you are going to have something akin to scientists working on a equipment, give them a clear path between their equipment (makes it easier) and movment through an AI Script, and play a different animation at each station to give the illusion of working.

But if you want the thread to die, i'll let it.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 09:44
no no no no..keep it up zen, i love talking about ai and specs. Please continue becasue as soon as I have something of value to contribute i will.

Oh wait one more thing. Ai can sometimes scare me and even now as a programmer I've obtained a new level of realization on what we coders can manipulate. Today we have the technology to create whole "worlds" or segements of worlds that are filled with living breathing human beings or creatures, namely the mmo offline. Giving into this new power of creation has made me a little afraid of what the future holds as now we can create a squad of soldiers to react on their own and respond to your orders on a dime, as the same goes for the enemy ai. I know i'm jumping around a lot so please forgive me as I will reach my point eventually. With this extroidinary power we hold, why can we not create more realistic horror simulations? We can now code realistic physics with some of the best shaders i've ever seen, digital music and hd and blue ray capablities, i guess what i'm saying is, why don't we scare the crap out of people. *No worries, i'm heading back to ai in a sec* What i'm so curious about is why people don't use ai to their potential? For example, why not have a group signal to others 2 rooms away to light a beacon signalling others to come and outflank you and then break through the wall in front of you. Anyway..

All i'm saying is we have the tech so why dont' we maximize it and create as much realism for our players as possible. Phew..I'm sorry Zen I think I went off topic there. Well if i did, i'm tired for one and I hope somebody keeps the topic going. This is just my two cents.

Zombie (TheMoaningKiller)

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 10:29
I've planned out something similar for my next project in DBP, to a lesser extent. Instancing is very powerful if used correctly.

It is possible, if planned correctly, to create a room full of enemies in which many of them are instanced. Say you establish a ratio of 5 to 1. For every 1 real model there are 5 instanced models. The models must share animation and texture. They don't share scale or rotation. So, separate AI can control every enemy to an extent.

In Geisha House, for example, characters are represented by boxes. The animated character that you see is just slapped onto the box when it becomes visible. Using this model, I could create a system that dynamically creates and allocates the correct ratio of cloned and instanced objects and use them on the appropriate boxes. It would limit the AI, but for an unintelligent enemy en masse it would work out just fine. As any parent enemy died, you'd just reallocate that model to another enemy that had an instanced model in the first place. You'd keep going until all you had were the original enemies, then nothing.

The thing with this system is that you couldn't share death animations. In the system that I planned I won't use death animations at all, I'll use Dark Physics + exploding debris. Some of the debris will be animated, like twitching legs and such.

The end product will be a game with lots of swarming enemies. They'll naturally tend to act in clusters, the size of which depends on the ratio and how I program it. I won't be able to get close to the number of zombies in that game, but it will have much more action going on than the standard DBP game that we're used to.


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Fallout
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 11:48 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 11:49
Will be interesting to do a tech test on instanced objects. When I made that quick zombie sim, I started off with unique objects, and then switched to instance objects. There was a substantial increase, but not the huge increase I'd expected. I think when animations etc. are in play, it'll be more significant as more calculations are being removed by instancing, but I wouldn't expect it to be hugely faster as DBP doesn't (I'm assuming) have half of the optimisations you'll see in game engines designed with instancing in mind.


Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 11:54 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 11:57
That's very true. I wouldn't try to push more than maybe 150-200 enemies on screen at once at any given time. I think that's plenty though if the game is made right.

One thing that I use instanced animations for is static animals, like birds, bats, and fish. They don't do anything but move around as decoration anyway. Having them instanced looks great and makes the system load nominal, especially compared to unique objects.

The load on DBP has a lot to do with the file size and the number of limbs. Some models are huge, like 3mb, with tons and tons of limbs. Every limb is a separate draw call (I've seen models with 10 fingers and 10 toes, come on now), and DBP doesn't handle huge models well at all. I've got a little alien robot model that just looks fantastic and weighs in at 300kb with all the right animations. That guy would be just right for such a thing.


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That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 18:01
I noticed that as well. I think FPSC users have also noticed that. In FPS Creator, if the dynamic character is 1 MB, you can easily have 4-5 of them in a room, with slight framerate decrease. But when models are 4 MB, forget it. I saw one character that was 5 MB! 1 guy per room!

In DBP, it's basically the same story. But DarkBASICPro seems to be a able to handle characters easier. I sometimes get surprised at the AI, for what a small program as that can do.

I can't wait to play Geisha House.

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