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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Creating a Level Editor

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sp3ng
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Posted: 30th Aug 2007 11:52
bump, sry i just couldnt let this awsome thread die down,

hows the editor going, im still working out the best way to use verctors to edit the matix inside a circle (damn maths)


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Sasuke
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Posted: 30th Aug 2007 13:20
I can't take this anymore, I'm dying for this PSU. Shortly after I ordered it I got an email saying it was currently out of stock, so I have to wait even longer. I was going to wait until I got it, then post some of my work but it's taking to long.

Anyway sp3ng, it's good to see your still at it. When you say "im still working out the best way to use vectors to edit the matix inside a circle" does that mean you aready have a method and you want to improve it or you haven't found one yet. I think theres a thread about this, but can't remember where I saw it, I'll have a look around and maybe try out a few things later.
sp3ng
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Posted: 31st Aug 2007 07:17
it means that in my opinion the best way to edit terrain would be via vectors but im just working out how to do that (i guess projecting a vector from the camera onto the terrain height would work for the positioning of the edit circle but i dont know how i would tell which matrix vertices are inside the edit circle)

as for my psu im going to return it before its opened! (i didnt check how many pins it had as this is my first time buying one and i was unaware of that, and i want to be on the safe side)


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Sasuke
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Posted: 31st Aug 2007 16:53
Hmm... could you work out how to get one vertice and do distance check to the next vertice in all direction corresonding to the radius of the circle. Or, say if you had a grid, where each cell was 128x128 then from what ever vertice nearest to the centre of the circle your on you just highlight every 128'th vertice within the circle radius and the same a for the diaginals. It would be something like: CircleRad / Cell(width or height or length across) to get the number of vetices that can be highlighted along the x or z axis not including the centre vertice.

They are two complete guesses by the way, I'm not sure how to do this and I can't test it a the moment. Anyone else got any idea's ?
jason p sage
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Posted: 1st Sep 2007 01:30
Thanx Sasuke! I was just reading my email I downloaded earlier and saw this - and was going to suggest the same thing! (Glad you did... I thought everyone left with school starting and all )

sp3ng
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Posted: 1st Sep 2007 02:46
my holidays are coming up in a couple of weeks, but im leaving early to go to europe

thanks for the hints by the way, i was wondering whether there was a wonderfully complex formula to see whether the verts were inside the co-ordinates of the circle at different areas
never thought of the options you posted


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2007 07:18
Your seriously still waiting for that PSU? Geez , talk about bad luck . Well, I hope you get it soon. We are all hanging on this thread like we used to impatiently wait for the next episode of our favorite tv show to air.
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 04:12
Get your PSU yet man?
Sasuke
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 13:34 Edited at: 11th Sep 2007 02:57
Sorry guys. The remake on my laptop is nearly where I was at on my PC so I'll make a demo or something, just to see where I'm at.

Again, this is not a wip(though as soon as I get my computer I'll make one) for just my project, I was thinking more of a question and answer thing. So here's one:

I've been stuck on this for age's, how would you go about creating scripted events. I know CryEngine 2 Editor uses a macro based event editor but I don't know whats involved in macro's.

One Gui thing, does function look right(sorry for the odd question):
jason p sage
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 14:11
Macro is a loose term - but AFAIK they usually emulate keystrokes and or mouse clicks or click events.... like one way for a macro to work is by coordinates - where macro records x,y and button clicked.

The other way (for mouse anyway) is capturing "New Button Click Event" ...


Having a whole library of "events" or "tasks" (and a way to automate keypresses for text boxes, control focus etc) and assigning defaults to make your app work is the beginning. Being able to associate a "recorded" series of clicks, keypresses etc and assigning it to an event like "New Level" would allow you to go above and beyond the default "New" event - and have that same "click" call "new" followed by a bunch of automated (previously recorded) user input - that could say - enter new level dimensions, set colors, load some texture...

To start something like this you need to really think even oriented - and beable to record events as they happen - including keystrokes - in a way that you can read them back and as you do fire off the events in the "recording" as if the user did it.

This would be sweet - but might be overkill. You may want to make for such a system - and then just make the level editor - and THEN when you have a good terrain editors etc... add enhanced macro functionality. I wouldn't want to see you bogged down figuring macro's when you could be cranking code that loads, saves, and modifies terrain!

Sasuke
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 14:17 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 14:17
Thanks for that but I should of said scripted game events, using a macro based editor to script an event in the game.
Hayer
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 18:28
@Sasuke
How is the map editor going?
Any demos?

feiting shadow
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 18:50
I'm going to release a WIP of a fully functional with slight-bugs map editor. It uses Blue, but it's going to be completely functional for what I'm using it for. I just think newbies could use the source.

Note: I have written three debugged map editors, but I didn't finish. This time I worked on the "large" bugs only, and finished.

It's only one of several parts to a game though. Anyway, look for my post in the WIP section in the next week. (tuesday is my next off day, but I'll try for before that). I wanna make "sets" instead of just one object at a time.

LLRGT omglol
Sasuke
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 19:18 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 19:19
If you've read through, your see the whole PSU issues. But I'm remaking the editor on my laptop and I'll be working on it everyday so I'll put up some pictures and maybe a demo.

And could someone advice me on that code snippent I posted last, I'm not to sure if the returnhandle is handled right.
sp3ng
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 17:39
im thinking of using/buying blueGUI (is it any good?)

you seem to be progressing quite well, as for cryEngines scripted events, in cryEngine 1 you have to make a trigger zone and select the action for the triggered object/character to perform, such as enterVehicle or Destroy


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Inspire
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Posted: 10th Sep 2007 01:22
@ Sasuke:

Can't wait to see screenshots. I cannot help you with the code snippet, though. Sorry.

I am also working on a level editor for an FPS game I'm making, and it's also modeled after CryEngine2. I would like to put up some screenshots, if it isn't rude or considered hijacking.

Sasuke
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Posted: 10th Sep 2007 02:10
As I've said, this is a general Creating a Level Editor thread available to anyone creating a level editor. Please post the screenshots, code problem's, any thing

I'm working like mad to get my level editor up and running again, so new screenshots and info this week.
sp3ng
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 17:25
i havent been able to work on my editor at the moment (due to being in france at the moment) but when i get back i have got a fair bit of work ahead of me from all the features ive planned out while being on holidays, i am going to get blueGUI to make life easier on me, but i have encountered this problem in my planning, and was wondering if anyone else attempting this type of editor has also reallised it (im ashamed to say that i thought of it much later than i should have). because CryEngine sandbox is an editor that runs the engine inside of it, in theory you would need a functioning engine in order to make the editor properly, so this will increase my workload as well, trying to finish the engine i was working on for the editor (ive been mainly concentrating on making the editor not the engine)

i hope this helped anyone who had the swame problem i had with not realising about this issue


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jason p sage
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 18:56
Yup... its definately a fact of life or something you can get by with what I wrote above - But to get WYSIWYG - it SEEMS like your comment is right on and is the dilemma I'm in. I bought T.Ed3 to try to utilize a power tool for making landscapes - and I MAY still get it to work - but seeing how Advanced terrains seem to be the only thing so far giving me what I'm looking for (large terrain - decent frames) I may have to go for the "lower texture detail" and make that the "Way it is" which means - I don't have a good advanced terrain editor (But I can make these with T.Ed kinda) But really the best way I found is old GeoScape - Random - load and look? Random again few tweaks - Load n look? Look Ok? Cool! But this leaving me with not have a way to place static objects, burn shadows etc etc.

LIFE IS NOT FAIR!



Sasuke
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 21:45 Edited at: 21st Sep 2007 21:46
sp3ng, you don't need to make editor that works with the an engine, just make an editor that stores object information, object position, size, texture, shader etc... and with a few functions it can be used in any engine.

jason p sage, couldn't you place statics onto that terrain using intersect object, thats what i've been using, heres a pic:



Note: there not really static, but you get the picture.
jason p sage
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 23:33
SaSuke - Looks Really Nice. Where ya get the folliage media? I like it. Um - Intersect would work I suppose. I was thinking It would be nice to have a way to see the whole deal (level/terrain, move buildings here or there, place plains with stuff on em - like roads or airports, maybe have a way to have multiple terrains (Yup - one on another) Small chunks of detail - on a very broad brush main landscape kinda thing.... The flower stuff/tree stuff - reminds me of the voxel demo and I definately need something along those lines.

Try
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2007 01:04
Wow, nice pic where did you get those textures from?

Cheers,
-Try
sp3ng
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2007 18:14
technically you dont need an engine, but to acheive the sandbox editing style of watching scripted sequences in the editor you would (such as setting an object to blow up when you walk into a trigger box, in cryEngine editor, you can navigate the camera into the trigger box and watch the object explode)


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Sasuke
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 12:40 Edited at: 30th Sep 2007 12:42
WOOHOOOOOOOOO I've got a PSU finally, I even got a free fan and a letter saying sorry for the wait, sweet. I'm going on holiday for a bit and I'm taking my computer with me so if there an net connection availible there I'll post some pics and vids. It's going to be a freerunning(Parkour) holiday and were staying in my friends house. I've appeared in a video with the local team MKPK awhile ago.

jason p sage and Try, I'm using the images as placeholders until I'm able to create somthing similar, I usually get them from games, you just need to extract the content. All file I use I put a "ph_" at the beginning of the file name just in case. All of the grass planes move in the wind direction but standard rotation isn't the best for this. I need to be able to move the vertices for good movemoment, that way I can move only the top verts and keep the others locked in there position.

A problem at the moment is that "object in screen" and" object visible" are bugged, so I get a low frame rate. Hopefully this will be sorted in the update.

If anyone interested, heres the vid(This was there first main vid and they had only been doing parkor for a short time.). I only appear a few times and I'm the one that has an orange bob marley top on and black trousers(and that gap I did was six and a half meters, you can't see it well at the camera angle).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mS1ZL6GAWE
jason p sage
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 18:02
Nice video man! Impressive - you and your friends!
Jason

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 22:18
Yea man, very nice =] What the heck is the exercise routine for you guys?
Game pro
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 23:15
Wow, nice work sasuke. With a little work you can turn this into an awesome level editor! Hmm, I'll be the person who provides suggestions on what to add. Will you be able to export the levels as darkbasic pro code? I really need a level editor that is capable of that. Thanks!

Also,

[Quote]
First of all you need a gui plug-in like a blueGUI or this free one
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=97660&b=8

Then you need to create the gui and link the buttons to extensive usage of rotate, position and load object commands. All in all I'd say it will take you at least 2 weeks making it from scratch.
[/Quote]
Sweet, I didn't know someone made a free WIN GUI for DBPRO. Thanks for posting that!

I have nothing to say to the likes of you.
Inspire
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Posted: 4th Oct 2007 04:27 Edited at: 4th Oct 2007 04:28
This is my level editor...

If you're wondering about the name (which I am unfortunately drawing attention to now), it's just a placeholder. I used a thesaurus, looking for a good name, and that's the best I could find.

Not a ton of functionality yet. Just basic object placement and a randomized terrain, and a half finished particle editor (that's what that big black button is on the toolbar, my failed attempt at transparency).





Sid Sinister
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Posted: 4th Oct 2007 06:27
Very nice, I like it. I like the name too =]
jason p sage
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Posted: 4th Oct 2007 13:53
And I like how you have very "easy to read" window controls on the right, with a sizable view port/work area.

You mentioned object placement - does your export file have the positions, RGBA (a=alpha), rotation, scale etc? In short... so you can recreate what you make in your editor in DBpro/DarkGDK programs pretty readily?

T.Ed3 also allows you to play with the FOG settings and camera settings - for no reason other than "try it" and then "Save it" so your game or whatever can load and then set the cam and fog like you saved it in your level - also the same with water height and color.

I think this project is starting to look nice! Keep it up!

Inspire
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 00:49 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 00:51
Quote: "Very nice, I like it. I like the name too =]"


Thanks man.

Quote: "You mentioned object placement - does your export file have the positions, RGBA (a=alpha), rotation, scale etc? In short... so you can recreate what you make in your editor in DBpro/DarkGDK programs pretty readily?"


No exporting yet...don't really have the time to do all that yet. I haven't worked on this since September, due to a competition I'm entering. After November 22nd, I will be working on this alot, and that's first on my list.

Why would I need RGBA in my export file?

jason p sage
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 03:19
Quote: "Why would I need RGBA in my export file?"
Well - RGB for Objects that don't have texture - (I see why this might not be important) BUT - RGB for Light Emissive, and Diffuse settings.

Alpha - in T.Ed is 1.0 or less. Whatever but - if its 1 (I think of it as 100%) than the object is not transparent. If less - then it becomes more transparent as you get less a number for alpha. Additionally - if you are tailoring this towards DBPro/DBC/DarkGDK - you may consider having settings for Transparanecy directly, object light, object diffuse, Ghosted or not, alpha values for the alpha settings which make stuff see through also, along with the texture flags.

Basically - all the properties you can set for an object could in theory be part of the "Parameters" for each object you place in the scene - but with defaults that make sense so you only have to change em if you want - don't forget scale... Oh... It would be cool to put in sparky colision info - like a collision group number, and the default on or off - and maybe a setting to say if to "setup" in sparky as simple or complex object and if complex , howmany faces.

In short - the more you put in the editor - the easier it is to write a generic loader routine that pretty much can do it all - this leave a lot of the work to INSIDE the ditor - versus under the hood in your code editor - at least for making levels or whatever.

I'm basically writing a loader for Ted3 which seems to be more BlitzBasic spercific but I'm getting pretty good WysiWyg now - that is it looks like it does in the editor for the most part - but its lacking some of the object placement things I mentioned above - or should I say they aren't missing - I WISH they were there? anyway .. another neat thing is that the export file has a SOURCE list of all the objects in the scene - but then has another list of where you placed the instances (copies etc) and the coords - if there was one more flag - instance or clone - it would be even more ideal - but it does have a place to put custom text in each instance's parameters - so I can put in weird stuiff like that.

Hope you can make some progress with it. Terrain editors are fun to write I'd imagine.

Inspire
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 03:46
Quote: "f you are tailoring this towards DBPro/DBC/DarkGDK - you may consider having settings for Transparanecy directly, object light, object diffuse, Ghosted or not, alpha values for the alpha settings which make stuff see through also, along with the texture flags."


Yeah, I agree. I'm putting other things like physics settings, sounds, and material for bulletholes and what to use for explosions.

Quote: "Hope you can make some progress with it. Terrain editors are fun to write I'd imagine."


A real pain if you don't know how to do them yet...I have ideas, but I'm probably just going to have really plain matrix editing, and just model the terrain separately.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 04:54
Sasuke, how did you make that nice menu system? I'm stumped lol. It doesn't look like any of the free ones and I heard you saying your trying to do this without paying for anything so it's not BlueGUI. Or did you give in and buy it .
DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 02:16
How's the project going. Like Sid Sinister said that is a nice GUI how did you make it I am using sprite but it gets really annoying.

I keep runing nowhere fast!
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 04:54
Oh hell no, second page? What ever! This stays on the first. Any updates sasuke? And you never got back to us on what you used to make that awesome GUI.
DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 01:57 Edited at: 19th Oct 2007 01:58
Did he give up or is he just to busy making it to tell us?

edit:
spelling

I keep runing nowhere fast!
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 02:34
No, I know sasuke didn't give up. I bet he's just having a wholebunchoffun (one word) on his freerunning holiday and doesn't have access to a computer =]

Meanwhile, any updates on other people's level editor?

Any idea of what he used for his GUI?

I'm most likely going to be making my own editor here shortly, which is why I am inquiring about the GUI. I need a way to place objects and plants and I'm not sure plant/object maps are the best way to go about it. Maybe you guys could help me out before I decide to make a thread about it.

Picture an RPG like FFX (10) and FFXII (12) (More like FFXII because the terrain maps are larger) and then tell me how you would load the level objects such as plants/buildings. I was thinking about plant/object maps but seriously? I don't think it would get the result I want for the amount of hassle I want. I think plant maps would be more for games like oblivion right?

The trick here is that I'm using Advanced Terrain. Otherwise I would completely make this level and have all the objects placed in some sort of level editor.

What do you guys think?
da power pwnerer
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 02:45
I'm pretty sure Sasuke made his toolbar out of images and sprites


http://Freewebs.com/noobisoft
Come to Noobisoft's website today!
jason p sage
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 03:26
Sid - There are a few approaches. Have you seen the Quasi-Voxel Demo? It uses a "Plant map" Via "Bitmap" and dynamically recycles a bunch of Grass Objects, bushs, flowers, and as you move around they just fill in dynamically - recycling the objects - Works awesome. HOWEVER - for a tree - the problem with this method is if you walk by a tree... say you remember it was near the road's corner... and then come back - that tree might not be there exactly again. This is why its perfect for Grass and stuff you can "walk on/through" were the same object type is repeated - say a cornfield.

Note - this method uses video Ram though if you work off the bitmap itself. I think doing whatever is necessary to put it in a memblock and delete the source image/bitmap would be best to conserve video ram.

For Placing Trees, buildings etc...probably better to do it like T.Ed or how I think #DWS does it - and Probably like Alquerian's - Floats. X#,Y#,Z# And Anlges X,Y,Z and scale of course.... and Filters - like transparency or not, light, ambiance, diffuse, etc.

Good Luck. Always interested in these kinds of projects.

DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 08:38
Ok i'm making a level editor for my fps and I have no idea about how I would paint my terrain. I know its possible I just have no idea about how I would do it, I am using a object for my terain. Also I have been trying to make it so I can position objects in my world using this code, its a little sloppy.



It just positions the object where the camera is pointing with a very little offset. Can anyone see a problem with the code.

I keep runing nowhere fast!
calcyman
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 09:48
Ah, to paint your terrain I would suggest you use a canvas, that textures the object in real-time. You should then have sliders to alter the texture offset.

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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 10:13
I'm not saying that not right I just did not understand that at all.

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calcyman
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 10:33
A canvas is like the interface in Microsoft Paint. You could use that to edit the object's texture.

You will then include sliders (as in the GUI element that is used for the volume control) to change the UV offsets.

I hope that clarifies matters.

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Inspire
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 20:17
@ calcyman:

I don't really understand canvases (that word looks weird). I've seen the BlueGUI command, but I don't really understand how they work...

I'll do some searching.

DB PROgrammer
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I was trying to get a 3D painting system but that may be too complicated so I guess I will try a 2D system. Does anyone know why my object placment code isn't working? How is the project going Sasuke?

I keep runing nowhere fast!
Mage
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 06:15 Edited at: 24th Oct 2007 06:17
I'm curious I see 2 level editor screens (earlier in the thread with sets of stairs and architecture), and it seems like there are a lot of objects in the scene, for what little of an actual level this is in those examples.

How would you handle collisions in a level like that without completely ruining performance?

In a game I'm making theres sometimes 200 people walking around a 1/4 mile area and sparky's dll seems to take most of the processing time when I display the timing for everything on screen.

I don't use that level of detail shown here except in 3d objects with a single bounding box.

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Mage
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 06:53 Edited at: 24th Oct 2007 10:33
Here's two screenshots of a level in my editor. No fancy GUI either.



Sasuke
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Posted: 28th Oct 2007 20:39 Edited at: 28th Oct 2007 20:39
Finally back from holiday everyone, thanks for the comments about the vid.

Game pro, not quite got the hang of it yet, but I can export code that put the level together.

Inspire, I like the editor and the name, I think it’s a great start, I’m still sorting out my gui system so you are ahead of me in development.

Mage, that’s an interesting editor, no gui’s... very interesting. As for collision, you would need to make a high poly object for looks, a low poly object for the LOD and finally an extremely low poly model for collision, just hide the collision model. You don’t need to collide with every object and every face of an object just what the player can touch. Like for stairs, you only need to collide with the front and top face of each step so delete the others unless you can go under the stairs.

Here’s a picture of an updated gui system.



What do you think? The gui system works very similar to BlueGUI and it’s all made with DBP.

Note: You would believe how long it took me to make that slider bar in DBP.
Wendox
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Joined: 19th Dec 2006
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Posted: 28th Oct 2007 21:40
WOW, this looks awesome
i love the alpha window and everything made with dbp
...and the object window

how long is the code xD

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