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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Creating a Level Editor

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Inspire
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Posted: 28th Oct 2007 21:50
Thanks man.

Dude, that system looks gorgeous. Alienware like style, love it. Can't wait to see the editor in action.

jason p sage
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Posted: 28th Oct 2007 21:50
That is pretty intense there Bro! Good Job!

Sasuke
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Posted: 28th Oct 2007 22:13 Edited at: 28th Oct 2007 22:16
It took weeks to make, not really the gui but learning and controlling handles. I've tried to make it as user friendly as possible by making it similar to BlueGUI, but it's been hell to program.

Like text over sprites, you can't do this unless you use paste sprite, but then you can't set sprite priority. So I had to create the sprite, paste it, slap text over it and get an image of all that and add that to the old sprite. And there's still some bugs with this but I'm on top of it.

Here's how a window is made with a menu.


And check out a tiny bit of UDT's(and I mean tiny)


Wendox, the code isn't as long as you would think.
Sasuke
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 01:41
Sid Sinister, To make the gui's I just use ink, dot, line, box and get image commands then use sprites. You'd be surprised at what you can make with basic dbp commands.
Roxas
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 01:49
Ow

How in the hell...
You are already pro man

You really know what to do so keep it up!

Cheers,

Roxas

[center]
Sasuke
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 02:22 Edited at: 29th Oct 2007 02:24
Thanks Roxas(Kingdom Hearts 2 rules btw, can't wait for KH3 and FFXIII plus FF Versus XIII(KH team are working on this) also Crisis Core FFVII and... I could go on and on), Thanks for comments, I wouldn't say I'm pro... ok mabye just for today(WOOHOO, IM A PRO, IN YOUR FACE NON-PRO... er... PEOPLE).
Mage
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 02:54
I do text based GUI for editors because it really don't want to spend time on that aspect of things. (Seen above)

The editor does however allow selecting of placed objects with the mouse.

jason p sage
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 03:03
Mage - your stuff looks great too. Question - what is the game you're building - the file name says a little - Rockstar Lobby or something - all the T/A Seriously - looks cool ... staying with the thread - your editor I mean

A couple others and I have been discussing "Level Creation" with regards to terrain also. 3DWS has terrain built in - but its not really a "MAIN TERRAIN" engine - Be cool if one editor had complete TERRAIN stuff - broken into limbs etc - like the "Inside" level editors do. Alsmost seem like you need to kinda make a FINAL EDITOR - like use the modeling tools for all the props, and "buildings" and then an editor based on the "Settings" of your game - cam, distance, scale etc - to allow full level control - like god mode with fighting turned off - so you can set everything exactly how the game will play it - I dunno - I'm always missing/wanting "something" that better connects the dots - without going to FPS creator like extremes -

sp3ng
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 03:25
that gui is amazing, and all this time i thought you were using blueGUI (and i was going to get it)

for me, im working on rewriting my engine source (its messy and hard to follow)

also, how would you be able to make a edit circle that bends to the height of the terrain (like the green circle in the cryEngine editor in terrain edit mode)


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Sasuke
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 03:42
I believe Van B has made something like that in the Ultimate Terrain/Landscapes thread recently, would be best to ask in there. Sorry I can't be of any help but still haven't had a stab at that yet.
Mage
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 08:00
Quote: "Question - what is the game you're building - the file name says a little - Rockstar Lobby or something"

Just something that I do when I'm bored from, gaming, Studying, drinking.

I was going for a goth club scene in that level. Was thinking of making some sort of vampire lair. Player runs in and guns everything down...

Right now I'm replacing the water with reflection shader kind. It'll probably look good when I set it up in a day or two.

I think I'll give away one of my male models next week. Also.

zapakitul
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 11:35 Edited at: 29th Oct 2007 11:37
Not bad Sasuke ! After seeing your progress i started doing my own:


and file loading:



Sasuke
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 12:35
zapakitul, I'm liking what I'm seeing.

One thing is I would suggest not using a window and make it fullscreen, because using a window will slitely crush everything and your get weird image and text fades. Also it has a dramatic effect on performance when handling a complex scene or shaders(shaders will effect it even more).
Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 13:05
Cool GUI. Would like to play with it

Niels Henriksen
Working on a (MMO)RPG right now in LightEngine
http://noggs.netopcom.dk/forum/default.asp - Forum for the game
zapakitul
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 20:01
Jason i agree, happened before while doing Z3D Model Viewer! But to be honest i don't have any problems.. Even loaded almost 100 models just to see how it runs and wen't great! I will keep developing it and if it turn good and with little bug maybe i will release it!

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 23:20
@Sasuke
I hate it when people don't use Windowed mode for anything BUT games. There's a reason why multitasking is so popular. IMO, if it's an editor performance doesn't justify full-screen. Some simple modifications can be done to adjust performance. In addition, some systems run faster in Windowed mode, such as my own. As for the weird text fades, that's never happened to me before in Windowed mode.


Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
NG Website Aex.Uni forums
zapakitul
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 23:27
Well aaron that happened to me allot of twice but not in windowed mode, but when i used set view command to scale the camera

jason p sage
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Posted: 29th Oct 2007 23:55
Quote: "I hate it when people don't use Windowed mode for anything BUT games"


You know what I hate more - how going bewteen windowed an non-windowed mode blows out objects! At least in Darkbasic, for some weird reason - I can run a full screen game - the alt-tab back to windows and do stuff and go back. In DarkGDK - something as small as a "Message box" from - say email "You got Mail" - because when task switches to "GUI mode - all the objects go away out of vid ram.

I agree with the basic sentiment - full screen it should be an option - if possible - but I don't think we as game makers and editor makers whatever should have to decide the fate of our users - I WISH the engine allowed interchangable screens - so a USER could ALT+ENTER as much as they wanted.

But so is life....

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 05:40
Quote: "Sid Sinister, To make the gui's I just use ink, dot, line, box and get image commands then use sprites. You'd be surprised at what you can make with basic dbp commands."


You've got to be kidding me! Wouldn't it have been easier to just make pictures of the buttons and then use some sort of box/mouse collision? Why did you do it that way? Seems like more work to make those buttons in dbp.

Sorry for the absence from the forums by the way. I go through programming cycles and right now I feel like I'm in the off cycle. It gives me a chance to work on the story anyway =]
Mage
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 05:52
Quote: "Quote: "Sid Sinister, To make the gui's I just use ink, dot, line, box and get image commands then use sprites. You'd be surprised at what you can make with basic dbp commands."

You've got to be kidding me! Wouldn't it have been easier to just make pictures of the buttons and then use some sort of box/mouse collision? Why did you do it that way? Seems like more work to make those buttons in dbp.

Sorry for the absence from the forums by the way. I go through programming cycles and right now I feel like I'm in the off cycle. It gives me a chance to work on the story anyway =]"


Yeah Ink is a bad command to use. I have been experimenting with a 3rd party plugin for the text and it seems to be way faster. However I had to write a couple of functions to simulate the same functionality of Ink which I was sparingly using.

zapakitul
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 10:05 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2007 10:05
i normaly use a image and a function telling me where i clicked! And i do something like if xyclick(X,Y,X2,Y2) = 1 then action
Heres a screenie:
http://zapping.evonet.ro/pics/77b77110a6ec4de2aa34ad58349840cf.png

jason p sage
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 12:36
I've been shopping around - and one tool I saw TOTALLY makes this SO EASY - And its lightning Fast. I think the closet parallel would be the sprite solution. Perhaps that Sprite Add On would do it well... hmmm

I've tried a couple things with dot, line , circle, dot etc... and it's almost as bad as turning on a shader

zapakitul
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 23:24
Hehe here is a new screenshot of my editor:
http://zapping.evonet.ro/pics/f1da7023c8cec473c82a682cc661b701.PNG

jason p sage
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 23:56
zapakitul
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 23:57
you 2 a great job jason. thankx for the help developing it

Math89
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 00:09
A decent GUI is one of the most important thing when making a level editor. Each time I start a new project, I make a new level editor, better than the older one. But each time I fail because of a bad interface system (slow, static, hard to add new functionalities...). You should also keep in mind that the graphical part isn't the most important, there is a lot of work with events catching and processing, with linking the gadgets with some entity properties, selecting multiple objects... It may not looks really hard, but if you want something good, you have to make a system without having everything hardcoded (this is where I usualy fail ).

The best advice I can give you is to use the Make Memory command in order to recreate data types. This lets you have functions with undefined types (you can give it a string, an integer, a float, a list without having to make each time a different function). It can be used to make a list inside a UDT, which is really important in a level editor.

Here is a screen of my last editor (which is not finished yet). At the moment, it can handle objects, materials, lights, shaders and waypoints, I now need to add particles, sound and AI support. It may looks good, but I really start to dislike it, it's way too restrictive for me.
zapakitul
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 00:21
WoW cool Editor ! This is my first level editor, and i like to make it easy to use and also beautifull since i will release it free later on! And your UI Pwns !

jason p sage
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 00:42
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 00:46
Wow, that looks amazing =]

I think someone who knows about this 'menu' making deal needs to make an in depth tutorial on all of this. I'm having a hard time following or even beginning to think were I would start with all of this.
zapakitul
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 00:50
Sid do a small model viewer and then make it able to load more and more objects ! I started like this with z3d model viewer! Then did this, (and bugged jason a little) and got a little beauty chest

Roxas
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 03:02
@Math89

GIVE...ME....THAT....EDITOR....NOW...!!

[center]

Click for details!
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 05:08
@Math89: Yea dude, that editor is awesome.

Would you and/or sasuke mind doing a semi-large tutorial on menu's and/or editors in which the result is something similar to what you have? Think about it, you might even see it come up in the newsletter! =]
Inspire
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 05:29 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2007 05:30
I agree with zapakitul. I started off with a model loader and viewer, which I later integrated into an editor (which I'm going to rework for my next game).

EDIT:

Forgot to say, that is one ridiculously good looking editor, Math89.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 05:59
Yea, I'll probably start off with that. In the meantime, some GUI advice would be splendid lol.

I think I'll get to work on that model view right now.
zapakitul
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 08:57
Hey if you don't know what guy to use, try to "paint" your guy and then do a small function for it, when you click a button on it, to recognize the position! ! My example is above! Anyway good luck

Math89
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 18:34
I've started the tutorial (even if it's more a collection of code snippets), there are 3 parts at the moment : the 2 first deal with lists and the last one is about mouse events.

http://mathein.free.fr/tuto/dbpro/

The next part might deal with windows handling (focus, moving, hiding...).
zapakitul
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 19:00
omg great! Thankx Math they will come in handy

Sasuke
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 13:24 Edited at: 4th Nov 2007 13:26
Sid Sinister, I don't see any problem with ink, dot, box, line as long as there not used in the main loop. Also it doesn't take as long to make as you would think, and I think it's worth it in the end. I made it this way so you can customize every part of the editor. Title(window, box, etc... ) bar, edge, fade, highlight etc... color and alpha can be changed to what you like using the sprite commands or in the editor, plus it looks cool when you change them in realtime. This way I won't use the same looking gui for every project.

But final it's done, so I can devote my time to the editor.

zapakitul, still going strong I see, good work

Math89, SWEET Editor man and the tutorials, great work

The biggest problem I had was try to get handles to work. eg. handle = create_window(x,y,width,height,caption,style). I use handles to link thing together but had problem when using handles for multiple arrays so I had to create a free handle function but end up getting weird miss handles where the free handle function would skip handles, who knows want the problem was but I don't have a clue. In the end I had to make a free reserve handle function which reserve a handle and double checks to see if any handles weren't used or failed to reserve(just for safety reasons).

I made a tutorial a while back on the subject, I'll see if I can find it, if not I'll rewrite for everyone.
zapakitul
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 18:56
Just a small GUI update in mine! Last update before il post in the wip forum... Anyway here you have it:





Btw id be great to show us that tutorial

Sasuke
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 00:11
Does anyone know of another way to check if and object is in screen or visible cause those commands are currently out of commission. And does anyone have any links to some mesh manipulation threads? Cheers in advance.
sp3ng
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 01:33
what do you mean out of commision, i use those commands all the time

its
isnt it


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Sasuke
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 02:14
Sorry forgot to metion, out of commision for instanced/clone objects, it's confirmed in the bug report thread. I would like to know if theres another way to find if a instanced/clone object is visible or offscreen.
jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 02:36
That's a confirmed Bug? Holy cow that stinks if its TRUE! True LOT port of Frustrum culling I guess.

Sasuke
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 17:26 Edited at: 12th Nov 2007 17:29
Frustrum culling, yeah, I'll have to take a look into that. I think theres a bug that needs squashing somewhere in my editors gui system, cause I’m getting a low frame rate when no actions are being carried out. I’ll have to prod and poke my code for a bit, but when I’m done, new screenies.

I got board the other day and was looking at what's new on Steam and it came to me, what if I created my own Steam. So I put my gui engine to the test and change a few thing and now I use my newly created Steam to host my DBP games.

Currently named the DBPzOne(this won't be the final name, I hope) and heres a few things I've started working on:

- Create profiles, log on and share between profiles.
- Add any game to you games list, rate and see how many hours you've racked up playing.
- There a image, video, and music gallerys. Also can add stuff to them.
- There are DBPzOne achievment points like, play over 50 hours of games, take 25 screenshots and the list goes on.
- You can play DBP games inside the DBPzOne window or not.
- Also, advance visual gui engine. The gui can be 2D or 3D, and theres different type of 3D guis. You can fly around a gui like world, a shader powered gui and the list goes on.
- There are a few arcade style games added into it when you board.
- It's like and xbox 360 style system, but on a PC.
- Unlock special skin, like the infamos PSP/PS3 crossmedia bar menu system or the Xbox 360 skin, and the hardest skin to unlock, MS DOS command line skin… it’s a thing of beauty.
- You can change the skin color or create a new color scheme via the skin folder. NO lines of code to look at, just a simple skin editor that output new skins and automatically updates DBPzOne with new skins(got this working already).

I can tell this will be a fun little project, just thought I’d let you know what I’m spend my spare time on.

DON’T WORRY, EDITOR COMES FIRST. Just needed to spread my creative genius somewhere else for a bit

Sasuke OUT!
Sasuke
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 17:27 Edited at: 12th Nov 2007 17:31
Oh... double post... sorry
Inspire
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 17:43
That's sweet! I'd like to see a really professional - quality Steam - like program come out for TGC stuff.

Sasuke
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 19:31 Edited at: 13th Nov 2007 01:11
Man, I can't find that tutorial anywhere, I guess I'll have to rewrite it. The old tutorial was pretty basic, it's was more of a log report really. It had a step by step approach to creating two windows with buttons and text on them and the best method for linking buttons to there functions.

This was the style for the tutorial but I guess can be updated with better descriptions, needs alot of work:
Visigoth
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 05:41 Edited at: 13th Nov 2007 16:37
I see alot of pictures on this thread. Any chance of seeing some .exe's?

edit:
sorry, that sounds bad. I'm just curious about how these editors work, as I am in need of one myself.
Sasuke
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 18:40 Edited at: 13th Nov 2007 18:41
I'm trying to get all the bug's out before I post anything, mostly just rewriting code, but as soon as I get this one mother of a bug (that seems to be drinking the framerate, can't find it), I'll post a demo. Also got to add a system check thing, cause it runs super fast on my computer, but may not on others. Maybe best to add a settings option before you open the editor. I'll also post my DBPzOne thing soon, or make a WIP out of it, it's comming along well.

OK, new editor question: Output... Err?

What would an editor output, would it be a text file with every object, texture, shader, particle, event etc... and properties, then use parser function to rebuild all of this into arrays, then go through each array and make all the entities with there properties and etc.

Or would it be something else?
Inspire
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 22:49
I'm gonna rewrite mine sometime soon...then maybe I'll upload an .exe.

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