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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Free Source Release: Lemur V2 Latest Build

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 18:44
It is possible..

Slayer222
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:02
There is still the splash sound...
Quote: "You can make any color by mixing red green blue together..."
Sweet, X10 style. Can you set the opacity? Also does water work in MP?

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[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:04
Yes.

Slayer222
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:05 Edited at: 31st Jan 2008 19:06
Yes to both I assume, nice job. BTW, are any of you making weapon physics? Please?

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[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:10
What do you mean by that?

Slayer222
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:16
You know how the weapons have a glitch were they can't move in-game no matter what you do? Well weapon physics allow you to move weapons by shooting them, pick them up (if your ammo supply of that ammo is the full), etc. The ammo also has the same problem.

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:22
Yeah. That's probably not going to be in Lemur.

Slayer222
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 19:34 Edited at: 31st Jan 2008 21:25
Ah man. I have a work around but it won't work with weapon swapping.
*Slayer_2
P.S. Hey Plystire and/or Airlside, if you want a challenge, how about fixing dynamic shadows and normal mapping? A thought I just had, you should be able to control ambiance and fog through the slider menu, like X10. SO each level can have different amounts of fog and stuff.

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[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
Airslide
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 03:47
Dynamic shadows should already work. I'll leave shaders to plystire

As for physics on weapons - I don't see why that would be hard, if you mean the pickups. I don't even know why Lee didn't work it that way, since normal objects have physics.

Another thing to add to my to-do list, I guess

Been working on March to War lately though.

Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 04:28
Quote: "Why is everyone suddenly getting this impression? Just cause my to-do list is growing doesn't mean I'm actually all that excited, DarkAI is something I've worked with for awhile now and if I can just find the right places to put things it should be rather easy to setup. Some people are amazed by the features we're putting in, and, well, alot of my DBP projects had them from the start (okay, except bloom, that one's a killer)"


You do realise taht we are all on a team and it's not a contest to see who can do what and get more recognition.

If you are having troubles finding an area to put the code in, just ask one of us... we've all been through every section of the code many times, and although some thigns are easy to do OUTSIDE of the source (like my Water and Bloom), you may find that because of the way FPSC was coded, it may not be so easy, and things can go wrong.


Thigns for Ply to talk about/explain in more detail:

-The console sliders
-Weapon Physics


I see that my console hasn't been fully covered and/or some people just didn't watch the entire vid.

Here are the things that are CURRENTLY included in the console, organised by which Tab they appear in.
Water Tab:
- Water Level
- Choppiness of Water (Effects how wavy the water will be)
- Fresnel Bias (Effects how well the reflection can be seen versus how well underwater can be seen)
- Fresnel Scale (Effects the "circle" area around the user which also effects how well the reflection can be seen... i.e. the reflections further away can be seen better while the water directly under you shows the refraction of what's under the water)
- Water Scale (Effects how MANY waves there are... so setting this to 0 will make it appear as though it's almost glass)
- Water Refraction Color (Been covered and should be obvious )
- Water Reflection Color (Colors the Reflection objects)

Bloom Tab:
- Bloom Width (Effects how blurry the bloom effect will be)
- Bloom Brightness

Fog Tab:
- Fog Distance (Effects how far away from the camera the fog will be. Does not effect visibility underwater)
- Fog Color (Obvious. Color for above water fog)

- Water Fog Distance (Effects how far away the fog underwater is from the camera. Does not effect visibility above water)
- Water Fog Color (Obvious. Color for underwater fog. Matching the color for Water Fog with the Water's Refraction color will cause a brilliant "glow" of that color )

Env. Tab:
- Ambience (Effects the overall ambience of the level)
- Ambience color

[/Tab Explanation]

As of right now, the Ambience only seems to be effecting dynamic objects and not the entire scene. It shouldn't take long for me to fix it, but it's on my list of things to do before getting back on track with the things that were originally planned for Lemur.


Regarding weapon physics, I, too, have wanted to have that for a while now, but unfortunately we would LIKE to finish in the middle of the coming month, and Iw ould like to make it clear that this is NOT a request thread for Lemur. You can put some ideas out, but they will not all be accepted. As for weapon physics, I would love to work on that, however, everything else planned for Lemur must be accomplished first! (I would like for you to keep this in mind, Airslide )

Object Physics seem to be handled differently than weapons, though. I'll take a look into it when I can. (Airslide, you can consider this added to MY list. Please continue work on your current objective )


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 05:20
ATTENTION!

I need to hear what everyone else here thinks on my current idea:

It has come to my attention, thanks to S4, that the Water combined with Bloom combined with everything else palced into FPSC (Like enemies, etc.) can cause a great deal of strain on even the best of machines, even WITH s4's great speed improvements implemented... I believe this is due to the fact, that for Water and Bloom to work, there are MANY more cameras being used behind the scenes, thus causing your computer to need to render the scene MANY times before you actually get a picture. That being said, I have given the option to turn them "off".

That being said, you are able to have Water or Bloom or both. So this is not an exclusive or (programmer joke ).

Here's what I want to know. For those of you that won't be able to have both Bloom and Water on at the same time and still get above 20 fps with enemies in the level, I want to extend an offer.

I can provide a "Cheap Water" option for people that can't use the Fresnel Water with great speed. This Water will NOT refract or reflect the environment. It would simply be there for playing purposes and not for eye candy. The water would not be animated very well (Aside from a very cheap scrolling effect) and would consist of a semi-transparent water texture. You will be able to set your Water's "grade" in the setup.ini file (or through the console during Test Game). 0 being Water Off, 1 being Cheap Water, and 2 being Fresnel water.

I cannot, however, provide a "Cheap Bloom". There are two different known shaders for a Bloom effect. They are "Bloom" and "HDR"... The latter being the "cheaper" effect. When I originally implemented Bloom into FPSC, I used the True Bloom. The framerate was horrendous, so I went to HDR, and the results seemed to be the SAME, however HDR had a much better framerate for me. Thus, Lemur is currently using the HDR shader for a psuedo-Bloom effect. For speed, I can offer the option turn Bloom off and nothing more. (If S4 had bad speed with HDR and enemies, I don't see ANY computer right now having luck with Bloom, Water, and enemies in FPSC X9)

Now, in order to implement this, I would need to divert my attention away from other aspects. Thus, in order to have the ADDED option of "cheap water", I would not be able to get as much done before Lemur V2's release. (Though I will try my best)

So, I would like for the potential Lemur users to cast their vote on whether I should work on supplying a "cheap water" to help framerates while still giving the option of water, or should I go on to work with other things?


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Slayer222
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 05:33 Edited at: 1st Feb 2008 05:33
Quote: "Dynamic shadows should already work."
Yeah, but they are glitchy as (place were bad people go upon death).

Quote: "Thigns for Ply to talk about/explain in more detail:"
Yay, long explanations about the minute details I so love!

Quote: "I see that my console hasn't been fully covered and/or some people just didn't watch the entire vid. "
Oh I ate it all up, but youtube has the worst resolution ever, it was like someone spread Vaseline on my monitor.

Go for the cheap water (unless it's just a prettied up shader effect), performance over graphics, well what other features? And where should I post my many requests. I'm sure many people would rather wait a bit longer for more features Plystire
Slayer_2

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Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 05:46
Alright, I got one vote for "Cheap Water" by Slayer:

Here it is in form of multiple choice:

What should Plystire do?

A. Work on Cheap Water to provide Water without speed drop and neglect other aspects to shoot for early release of Lemur.
B. Work on other aspects of Lemur to attempt to have it released as soon as possible.
C. Work on both and release Lemur whenever everything gets done. (Be careful when considering this answer )


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Airslide
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 06:00
Quote: "You do realise taht we are all on a team and it's not a contest to see who can do what and get more recognition."


YOU do realize that half the time I joking about the making-me-look-insignficant, right?

Anyways...alright, you can take the weapon physics. I don't know why it would be too seperate, they *should* just be handled like every other entity.

I'll do basic weapon swapping (should be real easy, actually) and worry about the complex slot system and what-not later probably. I really want us to be able to boast off having DarkAI in the Lemur release, so I want to focus on that. Don't worry, it's not that big a task (unless Lee decided to form his code as such it becomes such large a task). Really I just need to find the ideal places to put the code, add in the new script commands to control it, and tada! I'm thinking along the lines of:

darkaienemy - makes the unit an enemy in the darkai system
darkaially - makes the unit an ally in the darkai system
darkaineutral - makes the unit neutral in the darkai system
darkaicanseeplr - (condition) true if player can be seen via darkai
darkaikill - Kill the darkai unit
darkaiwalkingforward - (condition) darkai unit is walking forward
darkaiwalkingbackward - (condition) darkai unit is walking backward
darkaistrafingleft (condition) darkai unit is strafing left
darkaistrafingright (condition) darkai unit is strafing right
darkaistanding (condition) darkai unit is standing (for animation use)
darkaicrouching (condition) darkai unit is crouching (for animation use)
darkaistandingstill (condition) darkai unit isn't moving

darkaicanshoot (condition) darkai unit can shoot their target


That's the most basic you need. There's some other stuff I can add, of course, but little steps at a time.

Keo C
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 06:17
A free "lite" version of Lemur that lacks on features wouldn't be a bad idea.

At any rate, I vote cheap water.


Image made by the overworked Biggadd.
Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 06:43
Okay, AirSlide, just remember that I've personally seen how the AI in FPSC is currently handled... And you gotta make sure that if the user flags the entity AS being handled by DarkAI, then to ignore the regular FPSC AI routines. The user should have the option of using "old FPSC AI" or DarkAI.

Also, don't forget waypoints.

And, unless we can convince Lee to change the Editor (Or give us the source code to change it ourselves), there won't be any way to put DarkAI's true potential into FPSC X9.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Slayer222
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 07:01 Edited at: 1st Feb 2008 07:01
Quote: "C. Work on both and release Lemur whenever everything gets done. (Be careful when considering this answer )"
I change my vote, quality over speed (Throwing cation to the winds here). If Lemur is going to be frequently updated, then I stick by my old decision.

Quote: "Also, don't forget waypoints."
Which are glitchy at best.

Quote: "Anyways...alright, you can take the weapon physics. I don't know why it would be too seperate, they *should* just be handled like every other entity."
Maybe there is a glitch with FPSC or something...

Quote: "I'll do basic weapon swapping (should be real easy, actually) and worry about the complex slot system and what-not later probably. I really want us to be able to boast off having DarkAI in the Lemur release, so I want to focus on that. Don't worry, it's not that big a task (unless Lee decided to form his code as such it becomes such large a task). Really I just need to find the ideal places to put the code, add in the new script commands to control it, and tada! I'm thinking along the lines of:"
Does this mean *whispers* allies?

Oh yeah, oh yeah, its my B-day, oh yeah! Won't Dark AI slow down FPSC a lot?
Slayer_2

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[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 07:58
Quote: "Won't Dark AI slow down FPSC a lot?"


If implemented and used correctly, it should actually speed it up. (On a per-character basis anyway)


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

TGPEG
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 09:57
We've waited this long... so another few months won't hurt. I vote for one, single full version to be released at your lesiure. (But sooner rather than later, obviously)

[center]
Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 10:14 Edited at: 1st Feb 2008 10:15
Okay, sounds like everyone is more interested in a completely bug free version that need not require patches later on JUST to fix bugs that shouldn't have been there to begin with.


I just want to keep everyone informed that Urlforce is indeed STILL ALIVE and he is STILL WORKING on making Lemur better. Actually, not even I want to say what he's currently working on because it was an idea that spawned from both of us (And it'll make SUCH a great surprise), but I can tell you that it'll bring more to FPSC (NOT just FPSC X9, but if used in FPSC X10, it would too!) than anything else on the list right now.

I look forward to playing with it myself. (Can't wait to merge code with him and get to use it, lol)


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 16:05
Woot!!! Big news, guys!

Lemur V2 is featured in the February TGC Newsletter!!

http://www.thegamecreators.com/data/newsletter/newsletter_issue_61.html#4

Shame they didn't have my latest screenshots... The Radioactive screeny woulda fit in much better.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Cyborg ART
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 16:48
Great! And my pack is in it to
I think you should work with B maybe do something more with Multiplayer.

Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 17:02
And we have a vote for ditching the potential speed up.

(Don't worry, I'm not the only one working Lemur... The other guys can handle it, I'm sure, lol)


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 17:35
Quote: "Shame they didn't have my latest screenshots... The Radioactive screeny woulda fit in much better."
I got my list of updates (messed up by lee, it was 25 questions originally) featured and my sticky on the stock weapons with hands yay! Hey, you gotta start small At least Airslide is always happy for more work Dark AI, woot!
Slayer_2

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Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:05
Yes, well, working more doesn't always mean "doing" more. (As I've recently found out, hehehe)

The more you do, the more you gotta test. That's why the Lemur team just went through a change in procedure. From now on, when we finish something, we send it in to our devoted test team for any bugs. No body is to work on ANYTHING ELSE until their last addition gets the "O.K." from the testing team.

I believe that with this in place, our final product is that much more certain to be as bug free as it can be. (No matter how much longer it may take to finish, lol)


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:09
Well, I certainly would rather have Lemur released in March and mostly bug free than in February and be similar to FPSC V1 bug-wise. If I was designing it, I would probably get caught up in designing a game packed full of new features I feel so jealous of POD
Slayer_2

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:20
Quote: "we send it in to our devoted test team for any bugs."


How do I get a tester?

Plystire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:30
Noted, Slayer. I'll tally you up on the voting, as well.


Believe me, BVG, I didn't even know we had more than ONE tester until last night, lol.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:40
Thanks... I guess If you need extra testers you know where to look

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:55
Yes...You do....

Also, could you implement the ability to make decals follow waypoints?

If this is to hard to do, I understand, I just asked incase it was a simple thing to put in.....

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 18:58
Saw that one coming

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:10
Quote: "Believe me, BVG, I didn't even know we had more than ONE tester until last night, lol."


I see...

If you need another tester I could help.

[url=http://www.freewebs.com/bigvikinggames/models.htm[/url]
Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:16
Hey, I asked first

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:20
Quote: "Hey, I asked first"


Maybe they need two

If Lemur wants some more testers, me and Slayer want to help.

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:24
Yep, sign us up if we're needed, it would be an honor. I'll play a Mano-Mano CTF for the tester position against you BVG

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:26
Ok guys- stop, we have our testers. Please relax. We won't need anymore testers.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:29
disappointment........

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 19:43
Quote: "Ok guys- stop, we have our testers. Please relax. We won't need anymore testers."
We were JK Urlforce, I knew you wouldn't have a shortage of testers

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Inspire
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 21:08
I vote "C". I would rather have a high quality, feature rich FPSC that's relatively bug free rather than the other alternatives.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 21:11
@Plystire

C, my comp can take the lashing.....I hope.

Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 22:38
c

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 23:01
Then I have to wait for the release.
But recently for just some hours ago I have got some modelpacks sold so now I have money to buy Lemur V2

Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 23:02
I can't get Lemur V2 unless I strike some sort of deal with the Lemur team.

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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 23:48
Dudes, what's going on with this Lemur team? I thought all of this wasn't possible until TGC released the source code? Did they? I miss everything lol.

But, AWESOME!!! NOW WE CAN HAVE ALL THE COOL FEATURES WE WANT NOW!!! lol. Good job Lemur Team.



Click here to see my showcase.
Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 00:09
Presenting...... www.lemurpowered.com! Lemur HQ! Eventually there will be a showcase of games that are "Lemur Powered". For now though- there is a pretty site and a forum

General powell11
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 00:30
i like it!!!!

Check out gang- the gangster fps
Orrion Carn
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Cool site. Hey, I have a question, If I were to use your Lemur V2 in a game, and started selling it, would I have to pay royalty?

I mean, it's free right? So, what would the deal be?



Click here to see my showcase.
Airslide
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 01:58 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2008 02:00
Sorry, Lemur is not free - it will come bundled with a game, around $20 I believe (though nothing is set in stone).

Quote: "Okay, AirSlide, just remember that I've personally seen how the AI in FPSC is currently handled... And you gotta make sure that if the user flags the entity AS being handled by DarkAI, then to ignore the regular FPSC AI routines. The user should have the option of using "old FPSC AI" or DarkAI."


The problem with that is that I want scripting to still be able to handle the character - reloading, firing ect. should still be handled via scripting. The AI's interaction with the level and other units is handled by DarkAI, and in the second phase of the implementation it will be able to pass this information down to the scripts to allow for even more customized handling. You'll still be able to use smaller scripts, which should provide a speedup.

EDIT: I just thought of something! You know IanM's matrix util DLLs? He has alternatives for many string handling functions, of which are all faster than DBP's. I know the scripting system in FPSC uses alot of DBP's string commands, and I'm sure using IanM's DLL's we could get a noticeable speed improvement with the existing AI system. I'll look into it when I'm done with my current 4 objectives.

Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 02:11
Airslide, can you add me to your messenger if you have one?


Orrion Carn
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 02:23
Quote: "Sorry, Lemur is not free - it will come bundled with a game, around $20 I believe (though nothing is set in stone)."


Ok, but if I get/buy it, would I have to pay royalty to you guys if I sell a game that was made with Lemur V2?



Click here to see my showcase.

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