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Work in Progress / Marvin the Magician (Rebirth)

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Guyra
19
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Location: Norway
Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 22:07
Seriously guys, this looks really good! It was great fun to play!

I would suggest working on the controls a bit, and then add some shine to this stuff.

Mr Z
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 23:53
Still works on an insanely high FPS . But I managed to play a little now, anyway. Looking good so far.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 00:50
Quote: "Seriously guys, this looks really good! It was great fun to play!"

Thank you
Quote: "I would suggest working on the controls a bit, and then add some shine to this stuff."

Will be working on the controls soon enough after i finish the new map editor which i should be posting some screens of in the next couple of days
Quote: "Still works on an insanely high FPS . But I managed to play a little now, anyway. Looking good so far."
Im glad you got to play some, I want your laptop


Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
Guyra
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 03:24
To go a bit more in depth about the controls, I found it hard to aim and move to the exact places I wanted. (For example, it made jumping up to "Breezy Platuea"(or what it was called) a bit too hard.) How about turning with the A and D keys, instead of moving in those directions?

Also, just played a bit more, and I noticed that the music doesn't loop. It kind of gets a bit boring with no music.

Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 04:18
Quote: "Also, just played a bit more, and I noticed that the music doesn't loop. It kind of gets a bit boring with no music. "

WIll fix that
Quote: "To go a bit more in depth about the controls, I found it hard to aim and move to the exact places I wanted. (For example, it made jumping up to "Breezy Platuea"(or what it was called) a bit too hard.) How about turning with the A and D keys, instead of moving in those directions?"

Its supposed to be hard, but the controls like i said above will be changed later on.

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
Guyra
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 13:34
Yeah, I've no problem with the fact that it should be hard - just saying that it shouldn't be hard due to the controls.

Keep up the good work, you're doing great! Looking forward to see how this game'll develop!

Mr Z
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 14:28
Quote: "Im glad you got to play some, I want your laptop "


Yeah, I love it! My laptop, that is. But it can get annoying when it is too good for a good game, lol.

Got an idea for the controls. You could have a button you press, and then Marvin will look where your camera looks. Could help aiming .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 15:31
Quote: "Still works on an insanely high FPS"

This is because Crazy Programmer may have set the sync rate to 60, but I bet he missed the fastsync in the main game loop (which should be a normal sync.)

As for the music looping, I never played the game long enough to notice, hehe.

Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 18:36
Quote: "This is because Crazy Programmer may have set the sync rate to 60, but I bet he missed the fastsync in the main game loop (which should be a normal sync.)"

I have fixed that problem now.

For the music i have not yet looked into, as since i broke 2 of my fingers and on some kind of meds that like to keep me in my bed so im tryin to get the laptop all set up so i will still be able to work.

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
Bizar Guy
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Location: Bostonland
Posted: 29th Dec 2008 16:03 Edited at: 29th Dec 2008 17:19
Quote: "broke 2 of my fingers and on some kind of meds"

Oh WOW, that sucks. At least when I broke my leg I was able to code a lot. As someone who codes writes and draws, anything happening to my hands is like a worst nightmare for me. Is your whole hand immobilized? Which fingers?

You have my sympathies.


Anyways, It's nice to see this game again. I'll be flat out honest and say I was not impressed by this the first time around, mainly due to controls and level layout. But I really appreciated that Cowbox was trying for such a open worlded game, and it reminded me of N64 days, when fantastic cartoony landscape were acceptable. What I saw then and see now is the potential this game has with enough fine tuning. There is enough here that t could become a very interesting game, I think.

I'm about to try the new demo, I'll give my opinions afterwards.

Edit: ok, I've tried the demo, and got quite a few crit. I'd rather tell you in detail what I think wrong than leave you with something that might not make sense. That said, I'll be happy to explain anything in greater detail if you want.

First and foremost, even when I turned off the shadows and cartoon shading I only got 45 fps. I'm running on an ATI radeon 9800 which is a rather old card, but runs MUCH more graphically intensive DB games faster than this. Seriously, my game Dream made in DBC even when effect intensive like in a downpour with rising water runs better than this on my comp. So while I don't know what the issue with the game is, it seems to be in need of serious optimization. That said, the majority of people here are running on faster computers than mine (or at least have Nvidia cards) and have not noticed, but the original MtM ran much faster.

Next, the talk system is really unintuitive. Why is the talk button a mouse button that does nothing else? The mouse buttons are the most important buttons with relation to aiming in a game where you use the mouse for camera. Attacking is a lot more important than talking in this game, and also related to aiming. Then, why is the selection system put on the numbers, which are also used for nothing else? Why can't it use the mouse or the WASD keys and the space bar or something? It just feels awkward to me.

Then to go with that, not a major issue, but would really make the game feel intuitive. While I really like having this kind of WASD movement (albeit I have some suggestions for it), I don't think anything as sensitive as aiming should be mapped to it. Rather, why not have the wand shot where the mouse is aiming? It would be harder to animate and code, but would be well worth it. Most games today separate aiming and moving for a reason.

And since I just mentioned it, I'll give some suggestions for movement. Marvin moves pretty slow, like walking speed. So why can't he have a run button? This generally makes up for the lack of an analogue stick. Nothing is more annoying than falling off the difficult jumps to that plateau and having to spend a minute or so walking back. And if you don't want the run to be overused, you could have an energy bar that fills back up when you stop running.

Much more important (and which you said you will work on eventually), is the camera. I'll leave that one to you, and see what you come up with to change it before commenting. I'm very fikily about my own cameras, and would probably end up suggesting something extremely complex to code, as that's always what I go for.

Then there is enemy AI which you also mentioned you'd be working on, but I'll go and point out my issue with it anyways to be safe. First and foremost is that everything stands perfectly still until you get within a radius of it. Then when you get close enough enemies very slowly moves strait towards you, basically making combat holding down a button until they die. Not exactly intuitive. At least some of the enemies should move, and it would be nice if they didn't just run towards me or stop chasing once I was too far away. Then there is the fact that enemies can walk through obstacles, like fences. I got a nasty surprise once I got outside the fence and thought the cow couldn't reach me. If you do want complex enemy movement, I really do suggest adding that thing with mouse aiming though.

Then I'll go to world layout. The ground is mostly flat, and needs some improvement to the level design. While I'm not one to draw up whole level designs in my critiques over the internet, I will point you to Tinkergirls sticky thread in the Game Design Theory board, which has some incredible tips on level design. Even if you don't change this level, I highly recommend reading it. You did sya you would work on the first area as well though, so I'll be interested to see how that turns out.

Then last for now, sound effects. Not a whole lot wrong with them, I think they're kind of cute. You could just used more of them. You can actually make them yourself, it's really easy if your laptop has a built in microphone. That's what I do now (though I've gotten better sound equipment recently), and the most ordinary objects end up making the most interesting sounds. I'd recommend just recording tons of stuff, then picking out what sounds might work in game. Not a big issue though. Don't worry about this for a while, I'd say.

I have more, but I think I'll wait for the next demo. There is a charm to this game, you can go pretty far if you keep going with it. It's very encouraging to see it being picked up where most projects would die.

C0wbox
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 02:21 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2009 02:33
@ Bizar Guy
Hehe, I read all that and was like, well it's all Crazy Programmer's problem now, as I'm not working on the project. But for my own reputation I'll go through and explain some things, and I will help Crazy Programmer when he starts trying to solve these problems.

First:
The game is incredibley badly programmed, infact, it's the worst programmed game using that engine because it was the very first engine I'd made that I could edit reletively easily. Vision solved most of the optimization problems and various other things I'll go through. And ever after, I fixed the engine and well... I'm still doing that to this day. xD (But most of the slowdown in MTM is because of the really bad clearance system for entities that move offscreen or are no-longer active.)

Second:
The talk system and the attack system were never perfect, but didn't really bother me when I was doing them because I didn't use them that much, but had I continued working on MTM I'd most likely have changed them to be more user friendly.

Third:
A project I never released (and never even WIPd) because I never finished it was called Base of Fire. It used a method of WASD controlling, and a cursor with a topdown view, so you could aim the flamethrower the main character had. It worked, but the project died before I WIPd it for other reasons.

Fourth:
The walking speed was never certain because of the failed attempts at timer based movement and the inconsistent FPS that made it impossible to tell if it was being too fast or too slow on different computers. But, nowadays I can get round this problem and I could fix it all just by making the speed a tad faster and maybe adding a sprint button.

Fifth:
The camera movement from MTM was later sorted out in Vision and then perfected in 2 projects I also never released called John's Adventure and Realmi.

Sixth:
The AI ... isn't AI at all.
Lol, I spent no time in any projects to code AI because by the time I was doing AI, I was looking at other things that were slowing it down, let alone processing speeds to make them behave more realisticly. (And the fix for enemies moving through walls was again fixed in Vision, as well as the fact you can have multiple enemies after you in Vision, which would make MTM a bit harder, although you could still just pick them off at a distance.)

Seventh:
Every single map in MTM was built from either cubes or cylinders, meaning nothing was very well modeled. There are no hills as you know, because the ground is just a flat object. (Nowadays if I was to redo MTM I'd begin by placing a large grid on the floor and raising parts of it to make all the surrounding lanscape as this takes far less time and uses far less polygons, and also allows for more accurate collision as you can use the terrain collision setup from Sparky's DLL.)

Eighth:
The sounds, believe it or not, in all Soharix games are recorded vocally or by other objects I have around my desk (obviously with some editing). Hehe. I did also intend to put more sounds in, just stopped the project before I thought about it too much.

I hope this clears up my reputation, and sheds some light onto what Crazy Programmer knows I can help him with.

(For more information on Vision, Base of Fire, John's Adventure or Realmi, contact me via MSN/E-Mail)
Mr Z
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 14:14
So, how is Marvin coming along?

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 19:12
@ Mr Z
Crazy Programmer tells me he's got a big update coming soon, but I'm just as in the dark as you guys are.
DB newbie
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 07:34
i remember this project, i am glad that it is back and that sparky bug is fixed.


Come see the WIP!

C0wbox
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 15:36
@ DB newbie
Heh, the Sparky's bug isn't fixed yet, but Crazy Programmer will just apply the scale to 10% technique I told him about to sort it.
Mr Z
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Posted: 26th Jan 2009 21:04 Edited at: 26th Jan 2009 21:05
Hmmmm, was some time ago I heared from this... how is it going? Progress, or are there any problems?

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 26th Jan 2009 21:12
@ Mr Z
Crazy Programmer hasn't been seen for days now, so no one knows what's going on. I'm sure it hasn't died though. Well, at least, I hope it hasn't died again... xD

But last I heard was he was working on a vastly improved version. :S
Mr Z
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Posted: 26th Jan 2009 21:25
Then he is propobly just working on it, or he has travelled somewhere. Looking forward for that new, improved version .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 00:28
As I'm the only person to have recently spoken to Crazy Programmer, I'll alert everyone as to his condition, hence Marvin the Magician's condition too:

Crazy Programmer's hard drive broke. (lol)

So he hasn't been online in a while. I spoke to him today through his phone and he said alongside this that he will be PC shopping this weekend, but neither of us have any idea when he will be back online.

As for MTM, he tells me he has it backed up on USB stick, so don't worry, I'm sure when he gets back, this will pick up again.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 15:49
Alright, I hope he has good luck getting a new computer.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 5th Feb 2009 22:25
Oh man. His hard drive broke?

Hopefully this won't cause an uber long delay...hopefully.



Wait....what?
Mr Z
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 07:23
Any news on how this is going?

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 14:22
@ Mr Z
No idea how the project is going I'm afraid.

But Crazy Programmer is still using MSN on his mobile, so my guess is, he hasn't got his new PC yet... xD

Keep checking back though, he's bound to get it eventually.
Mr Z
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 14:40
Ok, I hope he gets it soon.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Mr Z
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2009 22:02
Ok, Marvin is almost going to the second page. So I thought I would ask, any news?

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
C0wbox
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 00:36
@ Mr Z
Well Crazy Programmer has now got a PC and is back online, so I would have expected him to have posted here with an update.

But apparently he hasn't.

He is back though
Azunaki
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 02:31
hmm. i looked over this and you might want to consider useing a more random texture (use 2-4 textures and randomly place them across your objects for the ground.=)
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 06:53
*knock* *knock*

Hello? Anybody home?



Check out my programming blog!
C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 20:44 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2009 20:46
@ Yodaman Jer
Last I heard, Crazy Programmer was doing umm... something, to MTM...

I'm not sure what. xD!

No blaiming me though if he abandons this project.
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 06:45
Man, it'll be a shame if he abandons this project, it was looking really cool.

I really hope he doesn't abandon it.

C0wbox
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 11:08
@ Yodaman Jer
Yeh, that's a point, I forgot about this WIP due to having not seen Crazy Programmer for a long time now...

Hmm, I wonder what he is doing :S
Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 19th Apr 2009 04:45
knock, knock
guess who...
its me
dont lose hope, im still working...will be postin some screenies soon.

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Apr 2009 14:46
@ Crazy Programmer
I knew you'd come back... sometime...

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 21st Apr 2009 06:14
Glad to see things have been worked out.

Mr Z
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Posted: 21st Apr 2009 10:11
Yay, Marvis is not dead!

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 7th May 2009 18:53
Huzzah!

I can't wait to see more screenies, Crazy Programmer. Also, welcome back! I really need to check out these boards more often.

"If you want lots of people to play your game make it simple; lots of people are simple." -Obese87
Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 05:49
OK guys i just bought me a brand new comp, i know most of yall have lost faith in this project but its not dead just yet. I just got done installing everything thats needed to get this project back up and running on its feet. Cowbox is un-aware that im back and working so this will be his supprise The project is close to complete i need to get the version of deled from Cowbox to add a few more lvls but other than that just have to work on the magic side of things and add a few little fun quest. My estimated time frame for this to be released is mid August. Tm i will be posting some screens hopefully. Im glad to be back

PS: Sorry i cut out on yall before, comp crashed and after the long period that i was away i got side tracked with real life im back for now to finish up what i started.

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
BMacZero
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 05:52
I has a happy



Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
C0wbox
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 18:13
@ Crazy Programmer
Well, as relieved as I am that I wouldn't have to cut you from the team for not replying to my queries on the project, I still feel mid August is a bit ambitious. Nevertheless, it's your project and if you think you can get a release (demo/beta/full) by then, I'm more than happy to let it all unfold.

Welcome back.


Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 19:08
Theres not much more to do at all, like you said and i agreee theres no need in making it complex. Just keep it simple with a few quest and a few spells with little things to keep you busy. Thats why MTM is so much fun. Its simple and you dont have to think to much.

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
Dr Tank
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Posted: 4th Aug 2009 04:28
Congrats on not being dead! Looking forward to seeing the finished article. Things always take twice as long as you expect them to. By twice, i mean more than twice.

Mr Z
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 15:17
Yay! Marvin lives !

"Operator! Give me the number for 911!"
- Homer J. Simpson
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 06:11
Hey guys just wanting to let yall know im going to be doing alil more than i thought right now, im working on a swamp map to fill out some closed doors. I think we are going to end up with 5 maps total

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2009 03:21
Hey guys im sorry to say but right now i have decided to stop work on MTM all together untill i can decide what to do with it. I plan on in the future coming back to it but right now its not high on the priority list. Im sorry to let you all down, it was a tough decision and not a very easy one to make. Soharix is going to be joining together on the same project soon so we wont be spread out and will be able to get more work done faster.

Marvin the Magician by Soharix
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141496&b=8&p=0

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