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Work in Progress / World Off Road

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 04:32 Edited at: 15th Mar 2011 04:32
Nice! Lol you have missed out on the 5th generation of video game consoles...

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 10:18 Edited at: 15th Mar 2011 10:20
I just didn't/don't play with consoles at all.

I grew up playing a Windows3.11 (which I still have) then spent all my time on a Windows95 occasionally playing on a Windows98 up until my dad got WindowsXP. At which point I got the Windows95 all to myself in my room and spent the next year or two playing Quake and making games in The Games Factory.

Then I got my first WindowsXP and T3DGM which sucked in comparison to The Games Factory. - Then I got DBP and life began.

In amongst all that there was a Sega Megadrive 2 that got used a couple of times and is now sat in its box somewhere, and a Gameboy Advanced - The only console I ever played properly and actually liked.


Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 16th Mar 2011 00:54
I see! Yeh we started out in second grade learning how to use XP. I always wondered what that little green button in the corner said. I always thought it was to start up your car. When the teacher told us to click on it one day i was afraid to becuase i thought it would start my dad's car. But then i realized it just brought up a menu. And now i have a glowy, textless button to look at as i have Win 7 I have seen many Gameboys, never actually played one though. I have always looked down to Sega's, dunno why...

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2011 05:42
I just found a fact you may find interesting: The operating system MINIX3 has around 4,000 lines of code, which is less than WOR has... I myself would be proud to program more than what is in some operating systems

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
C0wbox
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2011 13:09
Yeah my operating system prototype is significantly less than WOR as well. They're just interfaces, where WOR is an interface with lots of things bolted on and different code for different circumstances (MP/Splitscreen)

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2011 04:15
Ah yes, tis so true!

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Mar 2011 08:53
This is getting so cool!

There are approx 1.68 million thumbnails on the first post now!

I wish it wasn't quite such a big download, though. 80mb is a bit much for me, especially when it downloads at 15kb a second.

I will get it eventually...(version 0.18 or 0.19 I mean)

Clonkex

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SH4773R
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Posted: 28th Mar 2011 10:30
I haven't checked in on this in a while and I got to say cowbox, great job!


My software never has bugs, it just develops random features.
C4: silly putty for men.
C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Mar 2011 15:24
@ Clonkex
I know, I'm proud of my many thumbnails - it shows just how far WOR has come from the days of driving a car round on a terrain with some ramps to a full racing game.

@ Everyone
I've got until next weekend off from uni so I had hoped to do some more on WOR and get a new version out. However, the models charger bandit is currently doing for WOR are on hold as his computer's dead. xD - So I don't know when I'll get the remaining 2 trees and checkpoint from him but I should still be able to make some new maps and get at least half the way to a new version.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 07:31
99 thumbs to be exact! Just add one more...

DBD79
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 12:05
Yeah,it's pretty bad. I'm going to try to get something to work this week,otherwise someone else will have to do it.


Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 03:55
That's unfortunate...

I drew my avatar pixel by pixel in GIMP
charger bandit
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 14:56
I am probably getting the new PC parts next week so I will continue to model for WOR.


C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Apr 2011 16:17 Edited at: 19th Apr 2011 16:19
!!! I just thought I'd let people know, World Off Road is back on track. - charger bandit's come and saved the day. - We now finally have the checkpoint done:


And he's currently working on the remaining 2 models (the death tree and the swamp tree)

Once these 2 are done I will be able to start work on redoing the maps for WOR.

The new maps will be double the size in polygons, but also double again in terms of scale so will actually be 4x the size of the current maps. (Ensuring races are longer than 30 seconds. xD)

As well as this, I will be beginning to phase back in my lovely LOD engine that was present a few versions ago. (It works much the same way as Dark Imposters but is custom made for WOR (because it has to deal with LODing twice for 2 different cameras in splitscreen mode) and slightly less complicated in that I manually take the pictures of the trees myself.

So yeah, happy times for Soharix, we're back in action.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th Apr 2011 02:58
Looking nice!

baxslash
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Posted: 27th Apr 2011 00:06
Great to hear things are still happening here!

C0wbox
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Posted: 13th May 2011 15:41
Ok, last night thanks to Blobby 101 we finally got all the new map props for WOR scaled correctly and prepared for use with T.ED.

I remade Dunes1 (for like the 5th time in the history of WOR) and liked the results:

This map has twice as many polygons in the X and Z directions, and is also going to get scaled 200% in the WOR engine. (Ensuring we've got maps that are like 8x bigger and no longer take 30 seconds to do a lap on.)

However, the problem I was having with the last maps has popped up again due to the solution not working.

The last maps (v0.19) were exported from T.ED as .x, imported into Milkshape3D and re-exported as .x. - This solved the shader smoothing and lighting issues we were having.

However, doing the same process on the new, much larger maps causes them not to work. - Neither DXviewer or WOR can load them.

So I'm rather stuck for a solution at the moment:
If I want the shader to work on the bigger maps, their binormals/tangents need to be recalculated (I think) but if I attempt to do this (via Milkshape (passively)) it won't load the map anymore.

Can anyone point me at a program or something that'll just smooth the maps properly and ensure the shader doesn't make the model look faceted as well as ensure I can load the .x terrain properly.

I've attached the file in question (just exported from T.ED) incase people want to play with it and see what's up. - Applying the shader to this will screw up the lighting and cause a giant shadow effect underneath the map.

Please halp, or WOR will poo. D:

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_Pauli_
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Posted: 13th May 2011 17:14
If I remember correctly there are two commands that may fix your normals problem (these are the DarkGDK ones, but they are easily translatable to DBPro):



One of those may do the job.
I think their purpose is to re-scale the normals after scaling an object, which is your problem if I understood it right...

Link102
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Posted: 13th May 2011 21:38 Edited at: 13th May 2011 21:38
If all else fails you could splice up the terrain so it doesn't have to load the whole thing in one go.

You should probably do that somewhere in the development, it's an fps saver. (frustum culling)

C0wbox
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Posted: 15th May 2011 17:44 Edited at: 15th May 2011 17:44
@ _Pauli_
Yeah those commands are just going to facet all the polygons n make the map look really blocky. - I wanted the inverse effect.

@ Link102
Well the terrain was only going to be split into 4 parts, which will be pretty useless for frustum culling because all 4 parts will be on screen at the same time anyway.

@ Everyone
We're finally getting somewhere!

Turns out I need Truespace to actually do what I used to be able to do in Milkshape. D:

Nevertheless, here are the first pictures of what will become v0.20:

Bigger maps, faster cars, more scenery, fewer silly collision/shadow bugs.

Matty H
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Posted: 15th May 2011 22:03
Good to see you are still working on this Cowbox.

Did you consider using the wheel shape? Although I understand that its probably alot of work to put it in at this point so late in development, I have tried it a little and its pretty awesome

I have recently added heighfields to DynamiX(GDK version), let me know if you are interested and I will get it to you asap, they are for terrain collision, less memory and a little faster than triangle meshes.

The Slayer
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Posted: 15th May 2011 22:13
Quote: "Turns out I need Truespace to actually do what I used to be able to do in Milkshape."

Yep, thanks to myself and Truespace, WOR can actually have bigger maps and get finished.

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
C0wbox
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Posted: 16th May 2011 03:15
@ matty halewood
Quote: "Did you consider using the wheel shape?"

? Wheel shape? - I've basically forgotten everything we were discussing about DarkDynamiX; can't remember what I'm using and what I'm still meant to change (cooking n the like)

Quote: "let me know if you are interested and I will get it to you asap"

Never heard of heighfields but if its faster than triangle meshes, given we've upped the polycount and the scale, it'll probably be best if WOR gets them.

Matty H
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Posted: 16th May 2011 13:17
I meant heightfields lol. They have alot less memory overhead, they are designed for fast terrain collision. I will try to get an update to you by the end of the week.

Instead of spheres/capsules representing your wheels you can have the wheel shape, you have alot of specific functions for this shape and it also simulates suspension/wheel-turning etc.
Here are some:


I will be making a decision soon on what I am doing with DynamiX, it looks like it will definitely be finished so I may post a WIP soon.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 7th Jun 2011 08:45
What's the latest progress on WOR C0wbox??

C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Jun 2011 15:22
Nothing! !!!!

I had exams and now I'm sorta chillaxing now summer has started.

We started an open source project in Java and got a bit carried away because it's easier to maintain.

I have still yet to collect my thoughts on WOR to decide what is next to be done. - There are still quite a lot of things needing done.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 8th Jun 2011 23:23
I see!!!

Quote: "chillaxing"

Lol!

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 02:17
@ Everybody
Hi everyone, I'm back, and in the mix of summer properly now so I can get to work on WOR again.

I've sufficiently achieved what I wished to achieved on my other project for the moment so I'm diverting my attention to bringing you WOR v0.20.

I've literally just opened the project file again in Codesurge so it might be a bit slow to begin with. My first task is to restructure the engine anyway so there won't be any eyecandy for a bit anyway.

Just thought I'd check the WIP and see where I got up to before I go diving into 5000 lines of code and messing it up.

@ Matty H
With regards to this new engine structure I will be requiring some more assistance with DarkDynamiX again. - For a start, I've basically forgotten all the commands and how they work (I think I've even forgotten where I stored the help stuff that goes with it)
Nevertheless, may I request an up to date version with full documentation on (and some personal advice regarding the cars and terrains) the commands I'll be needing in WOR. - Normally I wouldn't trouble someone like you for this but as you're essentially responsible for resolving the issues we were having with DarkPhysics and thereby saving the day you have rather more of an idea of precisely what I'm supposed to be using in your pool of commands than I do.

@ Everyone again
In the meantime, I'll be figuring out just how to make this engine nice and dynamic and lovely so things like vehicles and maps can all become scripted and automatic rather than the mess of hardcoded if statements and selects it is at the moment.

Oh and just a reminder incase you've forgotten what the key differences between v0.19 and v0.20 will be:
The maps are 8x bigger.

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 06:17
! Finally got the first map entirely sorted out and back to the old entity system instead of merging all the props into one big object.

This system of doing the entities means props around the map can have shaders applied to them and the LOD system is back in place so the game's not trying to handle ridiculous amounts of polygons at once.

To give you an idea just how many the LOD system saves:
Dunes1.x and Dunes1_PR.x (all the entities in one file) together come to about 260,000 triangles.
Dunes1.x and the entities loaded in separately with LOD applied to trees comes to about 180,000 triangles.
I will also be excluding far away diverter props (the little barriers with chevrons on them) to conserve triangles.

And of course if it still runs like crap, you can always turn down the LOD range in the options and turn off the shaders and shadows.

Blobby 101
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 15:37 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 16:35
And while we're at it, here's a slightly unrelated update - some cover art

We're not promising to produce any boxed copies but I guess if someone really wants to throw some money at us when the game is complete they can have one xD





These also show off the new logo that we're using - it'll probably be in the game in 0.20 (along with a new Soharix intro to replace the old one which still had copyright 2010 on it xD)

EDIT: testing new sig

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 16:30 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 16:32
@ Matty H
Ok after some command tweaking the new version of DarkDynamiX works with WOR but only if I continue using the same set up I had. (I haven't tried heightmaps yet)

And I can't implement wheels because they seem a bit odd... xD

I modified the example code in Notes.txt and used this:


To get this:

It doesn't seem to do what I'd hoped, and the wheels are 90 degrees off meaning I've either got to manually re-angle them all or remodel all 10 wheel models. xD

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Matty H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 16:52 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 17:00
I would advise to only use that code as a guide, that code works for a particular model.

I'm pretty sure any wheel model will work, you may need to use 'set object pivot' to get them facing the right way. I had issues for wheels being 90 degrees out and there is a solution, I will look for the code for my other wheel example, which is what I used for this demo:



Here it is, sorry its GDK:



This works without any media so its a good example which will work for everyone, although it need porting to DBPro. The bit where the wheels are rotated/pivit-fixed/rotated again might help you.

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 17:01
I'm also curious - what are these wheel bodies designed to do? - What are their capabilities (in full) ?

Matty H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 17:19
In some respects they are act like a shape, just like the capsule/sphere shapes but they come with alot of extra functions, here are the basic ones:



You will get more realistic controls for your game, the wheels will turn/rotate/suspend more like a real vehicle. It may be a lttle bit of extra work setting them up but when they are all in place you will see great benefits from using them.

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 17:33 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 17:50
I'd love to use them

Just gotta work out how to implement this example into WOR's ridiculously complicated engine. xD



Matty H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 18:10
Whats going on

I had to go back and check that I gave you that code in GDK, do you have something that converts the code? That would be very useful, or are you just fast

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 18:17 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 18:47
Oh no, I'm just fast. xD

I do Java when I'm not doing DBP so reading the DGDK was no trouble.

Either way, the third person camera doesn't seem to look at the car properly. :S

EDIT:
Ok, I'm just using the first person camera but when trying to load my own wheels in the radius is too small and they don't move very fast. So I attempted to add a radius in but it's telling me the wheels do not have associated actors when I do this. I've tried limb ID 0 and 1 and neither works. (All I really want to change is the radius )

As well as this, for some reason, even if I use this:

The wheels are really sluggish and don't move the car...
They're scaled correctly but don't do the same thing the cylinders did. xD

I went back to using cylinders and just had it load the body of the car and even then it won't move.

It seems scaling it to 10% of it's size means the vehicle is ultimately heavy and will not move, regardless of lowering the density.

Matty H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 19:14
I will add the ability to set your own radius, for now, you can try scaling your wheel up and creating the wheel actor then scale your wheel back again.

If your vehicle wont move then try making the hull smaller, you may get issues if it touches the wheels, not sure. Also, remember that you may need to wake it up like I do in one of the demos, just apply a small local force to the hull to give it a push in the right direction.

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 19:49
Ok I've tried:
load hull
scale hull (10%)
create hull actor
- This gives me a heavy car that won't move

And I've just tried:
load hull
create hull actor
scale hull (10%)
- This gives me a car that seems to be colliding with itself and flying out of control.

Next suggestion? xD - I'm curious as to why this worked with capsules and meshes but not with wheels and meshes unless it's purely a scaling issue... - I'da still thought scaling everything down would give the same results though. :S

Matty H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 20:10
Are you using the debug renderer?

Scaling before and after you create your hull actor will give very different results. You should be able to see your hull actor with the debug renderer and it should be a good representation of your vehicle hull.

I have experienced the 'heavy hull' thing before, I solved it be altering the positions of the wheels slightly and applying a small force to the hull when you want to move, are you doing this?

C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 20:21 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 20:25
Yeah the code I'm using already does that wake-up push thing and seems to be using the debug render... :S (Not that it's showing me any debugging stuff - and I long since lost the code to set up how I did it in WOR because I thought we'd cracked the back of the vehicle set up so I'd never need it again xD)



As a side note, I have no idea how I'm supposed to use a heightfield after looking at the commands and the pipeline. xD

I don't really understand what the parameters on the first command do and I don't know what the second step in the pipeline is actually asking me to do.

Matty H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2011 21:04 Edited at: 28th Jun 2011 21:25
Here is you main problem.


The debug renderer is the most important thing in the whole world

For DBPro you need to put the values in like this:


Now you can see what you are doing and whats going wrong, hope this helps.

I will take a look at the heightfields in a minute and get back to you, I should do an example really.

EDIT: I already have a GDK example


I turn the debugger off here as there is alot of triangles and it slows the whole thing down, just turn it back on if anything goes wrong.

baxslash
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Posted: 29th Jun 2011 14:52
Glad to see you have some time to work on this now C0wbox

Looking forward to the next release!

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 06:23 Edited at: 1st Jul 2011 06:37
Hey C0wbox! I was just wondering, if you are restructuring the engine, you might as well add that FPS thing i showed you a while back to ensure the game always runs at the same speed, regardless of the FPS.



Remember this? xD Im not exactly sure what you meant by restructuring the engine (i was reading fast) but i figured if you were redoing enough stuff you might be able to pop this in the code.

Quote: "but I guess if someone really wants to throw some money at us when the game is complete they can have one xD"
How money are you talking?? If it was around 20 dollars (~14 euros; i think thats what they use in the UK ) or less i would most certainly consider getting one!

Blobby 101
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 11:21 Edited at: 1st Jul 2011 11:24
close, the rest of Europe uses euros, we're special and use Pounds (£) xD

And I'm really not sure about price, that'd probably be up to Cowbox to decide and it'll probably be one of the last things we decide really It's unlikely to be much though, basically enough to cover the cost of the disk, printing and shipping

C0wbox
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 13:47
@ Dark basic dude79
It depends on whether I can get the physics to respond to timer based movement as to whether I can really stick that in at the moment. - The issue will be stepping up the refreshing because peoples framerates will be too low (rather than the other way round) and this is the main issue so I may still cap it at 60 even with that in place.

Still, I'm working on lowering the polycount, so things are looking up even if I don't get it sorted.

@ Dark basic dude79 & Blobby 101
If I was going to sell any sort of copy of World Off Road I'd do it for somewhere around or less than £5 because otherwise I feel it's stealing. - I know my games aren't Rage or TrackMania but they're also not Breakout or Space Invaders.

Either way, I may still go along with my previous thought of making the game free and simply allowing people who wish to buy special boxed copies (most likely including concept art and other special content) for £5.

Matty H
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 16:09
Quote: "It depends on whether I can get the physics to respond to timer based movement as to whether I can really stick that in at the moment."


Everytime you add a force/torque to anything you should multiply it by the elapsed time, otherwise, when people lose fps they will also lose power/force and the physics/handling will be less consistant. Thats what they do in alot of th PhysX examples, but I must say that I have not tried it myself as of yet.

How are you getting on with the physics, did you get the wheel shape/heightfields working?

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 20:52
Well then if you do make boxed copies and the price is that, i will definitely no questions asked buy one! Where do you get CD 'boxes' to put CD's in and a label around?

Blobby 101
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Posted: 1st Jul 2011 21:41
hehe, awesome - mind that postage to the US would likely bump that up by a few pounds Also, you can pick up DVD boxes off ebay or amazon pretty cheaply.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 02:58
Ahh i see! I always wondered where people got those.

Quote: "mind that postage to the US would likely bump that up by a few pounds"
I figured as much! xD

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