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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Eureka finally a proof! (No proof provided in this thread, you all just misinterpreted the thread title)

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 17:42 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 17:45
Quote: "For the record it was published in December 1993 p525-527 under the title "Human basophil degranulation is not triggered by very dilute antiserum against human IgE". I was one of 5 co-authors and was the statistician in the group.

It wasn't earth shattering stuff but I can say it's very difficult to get anything published in Nature and you'll need to have very convincing results, theories or reputation to have any chance of success. The paper I was involved with was unusual in that it was a failed attempt to reproduce some surprising results reported by another worker in an earlier issue of Nature. As far as I know the other worker's surprising results have not been reliably reproduced by any other independent workers either and I suspect the whole topic has been quietly forgotten."


Hey that's an interesting topic. I just read about water memory, never heard of this before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Benveniste

Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 17:56
Quote: "Because I have a proof. "


Can't we have a peek then?



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:02 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 18:03
Quote: "Can't we have a peek then?"

300 pages to write, every page is a different subject. From Quantum Physics through every other physical observation, and on to biology, and evolution. The final page shows how to put it all together, and how it is proven in a test. No way to see a bit, and be able to put all the facts together.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:07 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 18:13
Quote: "And like I said, this thread was a different subject. This thread is about writing manuscripts that just happen to be called proofs. How to lay them out, how to get the message across, how to keep it simple, how many pictures to use.. etc."


This thread refers to your proof and your proof can be demonstrated here, no use claiming that it'd be off topic because you've already engaged in plenty of off topic chatter and it hasn't been a problem.

This was your claim.

Quote: "OK so last night I finally figured out a proof of my theory. It's easy to test, no setting up required. No expensive equipment. I went online, and you are expected to send manuscripts for peer review. So I will do that."


People asked to see it before they'd believe you and in these 2 threads you've been trying to convince people. You have the opportunity, take it. Keep it in this thread.

If we see the quality of what you do have, we might be able to direct our advice better - particularly those more acquianted with the scientific process. You seem to want to publish this but it's very difficult and you MUST be in a position where they can take you seriously and as you've found out, we've struggled to take you do so ourselves. Not so much as the content of your hypothesis but in how you've presented and how you've shown a lack of understanding in science and the scientific process. The hypothesis is interesting (I will refer to it as a hypothesis until proven otherwise).

The latter of which, you, yourself, have said you do not understand much about. You wanted this thread to be about the scientific process. I talked about the scientific process and compared it to your process. I explained to the best of my knowledge what you can do to improve your position and as have others. Okay, I'm not a scientist, neither are you, but I have the advantage in that I am scientific minded and tend to discuss science frequently, even with people who are scientists. I have studied science beyond school, though my main area is of interest is psychology and not physics. But you don't seem to have given these points and suggestions that much attention.

I'll refer you this post:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198588&b=2&msg=2374125#m2374125

Understand the scientific method, don't claim what you've got to be undeniable fact until after you've got a peer review to agree with you and also show that it IS undeniable, otherwise people will take you to be a psuedo-scientist. The basic difference is:
A scientist:
Here are the facts, lets see what conclusions we can draw.
A psuedo-scientist:
Here are the conclusions, lets see what facts we can draw.

Before you made any kind of breakthrough, you already had your conclusion and incorrectly referred to it as a theory. This already suggests a bias in how you've interpreted your data. We don't actually know what your data is an this puts us in a difficult position. An interesting one is pseudo-science, say, like homeopathy, somebody may take their magic medicine and find they're cured of an illness and therefore their medicine works without recognising the difference between correlation and causation. It's pretty much why pastafarians like to claim pirates prevent global warming. But this is only one way people can get their data wrong.

If you do not fully understand the scientific process then there's plenty of ways your findings could be inaccurate. This is why I have stressed it so strongly, but you have mostly been dodging this point and assert that you're right and science is wrong.

Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:12 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 18:17
Quote: "biology, and evolution"


I'm not sure how you're going to get any sort of physical proofs from biology. Biology (the science) isn't concerned much with physics, except perhaps at the very basic level (which I'm going to argue is more to do with chemistry). If you have a proof it should be sufficient to explain it through physics alone.

Unless you're saying several sciences are incompatible with your theory.



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:25
Quote: "Hey that's an interesting topic. I just read about water memory, never heard of this before."


Thanks for the link. It's been a while since I followed any of that stuff and it was interesting to see that the controversy took longer to die down than I thought. My own feeling for what it's worth is that the occasional "positive" results reported were due to varying mixes of purely chance mechanisms, inadequately controlled experimental procedure, inappropriate statistical analysis, and observer bias. The problem was a bit like getting several people to toss 2000 coins in succession and asking if anyone noticed interesting patterns of "heads" and "tails". Some no doubt would.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:31
Quote: "we've struggled to take you do so ourselves. Not so much as the content of your hypothesis but in how you've presented and how you've shown a lack of understanding in science and the scientific process."


Yeah, and that's what I asked in my OP. I asked about the Scientific method. So the thread goes...

Quote: "This thread is just about the scientific method. If anyone has any advice, or help post it in here. I don't actually know much about this part of science. I'm an artist, and don't know much about peer review."


and your reply is...

Quote: "we've struggled to take you do so ourselves. Not so much as the content of your hypothesis but in how you've presented and how you've shown a lack of understanding in science and the scientific process."


I ask for help, and you reply with.. you don't seem to know how to do it.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:33 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 18:35
Quote: "I'm not sure how you're going to get any sort of physical proofs from biology."


I have hundreds of physical proofs in biology alone. My periodic table is physical. All of my theory is physical.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:44
Quote: "I ask for help, and you reply with.. you don't seem to know how to do it."


Actually a lot more than that has been said. You're only taking a part of what I've said. Only enforcing the argument that you're dodging. This is a method of dodging called 'stonewalling'.

Indicium
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:53
You have your own periodic table? It gets better!


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 19:00 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 19:11
Quote: "You have your own periodic table? It gets better!"


Well all of my theory is propagated between particles that's why its so easy to program in a computer. The propagation is because I have a granular space-time. That means that a message is always passed in a chain of events. My light isn't even waves, colours, aren't waves. Humans figured out a way to visualise colours as waves, but colour is stored, and the storage has mass, and the mass has weight, and the weight spins, and the spin creates the wave that matches the mass. I step to physics smaller than science physics.

EDIT: I said spins. It switches sides of the photon. Not spins.

Indicium
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 19:14
Oh great, now electromagnetic energy doesn't exist.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 19:18 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 19:19
Quote: "Oh great, now electromagnetic energy doesn't exist."
Not as waves no. I have no waves, and I have no attraction.

Sounds like a Rolling Stones record!

I have noooo waves, and I have nooo attraction!

The waves that science uses are granular strings, but are a secondary effect of other physics.

Jimpo
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 19:20
I've attached a pdf copy of some slides on writing a scientific paper from a seminar I attended. This should help.

It won't do you any good to write your paper by yourself and have no one else look over it before you send it in to be published.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 19:26
Quote: "I've attached a pdf copy of some slides on writing a scientific paper from a seminar I attended. This should help."


That's great thanks!

Quik
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 21:56
Quote: "Then I suppose you didn't wait a year for the Higgs news?"


No, because I don't care about science tbh - however, I am trying to help in this discussion - everyone keeps asking for your proof etc, and you just slam a brick in our face with the response:
"Not here."
"This thread is not about that"
"etc shoes"



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 22:30 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 22:30
At this point this is just painful to watch.

EDIT: Love the new thread title though.

-Yodaman Jer

Not contributing much of anything useful to the forums since September of 2007.
nonZero
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 23:12 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 23:13
Quote: "Quote: "Because I have a proof. "
Can't we have a peek then?"


Here:



No offense, Pincho just kidding there. I'm all for a different perspective, but for goodness sake just give them some tangible proof (it doesn't have to be 300 pages, you can summarize it).

I understand what it's like to have an epiphany (I have my own "theories" re the universe - most of which came to me in a flash of insane brilliance) and I understand the need to share it but maybe prep something that proves it before just mouthing off.

I speak from personal experience because I've made a fool of myself many times in my younger days. You need to be more tactful here. Right now most people here are forming a negative image of you which is a pity because, egotism aside, you are quite an intelligent person. It's hard to, but sometimes we must retreat, lick our wounds and come back strong and better prepared in the future. Go and get your facts in order. Prepare your arguments correctly. Do some research. Ask questions about the scientific side under an alias on a different forum.

I'm telling you this for your own good here because you are an intelligent individual and you can still turn this around (regardless of the validity of your theory). Take my advice. Walk away from this topic for now and stick to the usual forum-stuff. Continue your own research and post anything you want on your website. Maybe start a Twitter account and post regular updates if you want. Then, when you are sure you have your facts straight, post your article (or a link) here. Use illustrations, cite references, post an executable or even the source code. Proof. Make a [decent] youtube video. These things take time. You yourself said you didn't like ready-made pot-noodle. Well that is how this thread and the other is coming across: pot-noodle.

I can tell you now that it will feel more rewarding after you have fully researched this and gotten all your ducks in a row and can make a proper presentation (Hey, how 'bout a professional slideshow!?). Instant gratification is supposed to be a syndrome of my mine and the current generation, okay!

Some advice for your presentation:
* Don't try to state you findings as fact. They are just findings (until accepted by the scientific community).
* Don't get arrogant about it. You are not showing people this for their benefit but for yours. (I noticed that leading up to the first thread, your posts were growing increasingly acidic and someone actually even commented on it at one point. Now matter how much you think you know, never make the mistake of thinking you are a god among men. Having knowledge doesn't make you superior. It's what you do with it that counts).
* Wait until we've all forgotten about or cooled off from "Pincho's crazy moments" before posting about this again. Maybe a year or so.

Well, I hope this post hasn't been too dull and long-winded and I hope some of what I said won't go to waste. I wish you all the best in your endeavor. Good luck!

nackidno
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 23:16
This theory is very, very interesting. I personally don't take anything scientists say to me as proof, because that just closes the book for me. What you are working on here might as well turn a lot of things upside down (and I mean A LOT OF THINGS). The commonly acknowledged theory that we have today started out just like your theory did: like just a theory.

I'm surprised more people are attacking your theory than acknowledging and admire your intellect, because it takes a lot of effort to come up with this kind of stuff, and great understanding and observation of the world around us.

But hey! That's the way things work around here, sticking out? Well, you might just as well leave. And it's a pity. I might not have been very helpful in giving you advice on your thesis but I honestly wish you good luck with your theory.

Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 23:33 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 23:35
I don't know why you are so surprised by people's scepticism, you are essentially proposing that the last 500 years of science is wrong and you are the greatest genius of all time.

This thread has a very misleading title, it's not asking for help writing a proof but proclaiming you already have a proof, and when people bring this up you tell them it's their own fault for misinterpreting you. Well if you're that easy to misinterpret, and so unwilling to correct your mistakes, I don't hold much hope for your paper.

Shh... you're pretty.
Quik
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 23:36
-Hey guys! I found a mermaid!

-Woah! do you have proof?

-Yeah ofcourse!

-Can I see it?

-Nah.



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 23:47 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 23:50
Even without proof I could have figured it out by now if someone else posted it, that's what I don't understand. When I read something that makes sense I apply it. It doesn't matter who posts it. It seems that I have a difference in that department. Like 'The Game Of Life' for example. I didn't make that, but I wouldn't go to the mathematician you are crazy working on that.

lazerus
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 00:11
your really arent making any sense.

Take a day away from defending yourself, write a clear and concise post. Re-read it, leave it for a day, re-read it again. If everything makes sense post it.

Portfolio; Arthiccup.com
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 00:19
Quote: "Even without proof I could have figured it out by now if someone else posted it, that's what I don't understand."


...?

You don't understand how we can't understand when you invent new terms on-the-fly and don't explain what you mean?

Seriously. I think we all would understand you more if you just were willing to try a little harder to make your posts clearer.

-Yodaman Jer

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 00:31 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 00:53
Quote: "Even without proof "


Which "proof" are you talking about now? You've continually criticised others for misrepresenting your statements. At one point you explained that "proof" was being used in two different senses, i.e. first the proof that a statement is true (as a scientist, lawyer or mathematician might use it), and second a proof in the sense of a manuscript or a draft copy of something.

I've read several of your posts and I really can't tell which "proof" you mean half the time.

You would do well to start making even your simple statements clear - then you can progress to your more complex view of the universe. You might get less flack too.

You also said at one point:

Quote: "I will link to it on my website after Nature decide what to do with it. Nature has rules I'm not sure what they are. I've sent a single paper to test them out."


If that statement is true, why don't you post it [i.e. the paper (edit)] here and get some useful feedback on the contents?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 00:32 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 00:35
Quote: "Even without proof I could have figured it out by now if someone else posted it, that's what I don't understand. When I read something that makes sense I apply it. It doesn't matter who posts it. It seems that I have a difference in that department. Like 'The Game Of Life' for example. I didn't make that, but I wouldn't go to the mathematician you are crazy working on that."


The reason is because what 'makes sense' is purely cognitive. This is where trying to use logic fails. Yes, you might apply it to your interpretation of how you see things, to be honest 2 people can look at the same thing and see it in a different light. This is why the scientific method tries to be so thorough, to remove personal interpretation and weed out any conveniences or coincidences, to determine whether it's correlation or causation, to seek an explanation based on what can be measured and not what seems to make most sense. What makes sense is merely a hypothesis. Science requires proof because logic alone doesn't give the answers it only give possibilities. Facts determine whether or not a logical statement is true.

An interesting point that should probably be made is that you say you're able to apply your theory. The theories you're claiming to be wrong or inaccurate can also be applied and have been done so and practically and has even been used in many technologies. For example, The Theory of Relativity is applied to GPS systems, without it, GPS simply would not work.

But these theories have been developed, have had a lot of evidence to back them up and their explanations have shown themselves to be sound vs challenges made against them. It is possible to look at physics in a different light and develop your own explanations and they might make absolute sense to you, but the point again, what makes sense is cognitive. To illustrate that point we live in a world with a wealth of alternative views, be it science, religion, philosophy or a mix. All logically sound and all apply it to how they look at reality.

Generally the person with that view will suggest they can apply their views to the real world (just as Plato applied his views on reality) and it may be perfectly logical and it may make a lot of sense to the person believing it. But just because they make sense and they're applicable in any way we sit fit doesn't necessarily mean they're accurate.


Quote: " Like 'The Game Of Life' for example. I didn't make that, but I wouldn't go to the mathematician you are crazy working on that."


If you stated your views as a hypothesis I am sure you would have got an entirely different reaction. Without evidence to present, it will be seen as a hypothesis. It's your lack of knowledge behind science and the scientific process mixed with your conviction that you are right and they are wrong has given you that reaction. It pretty much screams, "I don't fully understand you, what you say doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I have a better explanation, it is completely accurate, makes sense and proves you're all wrong".

Also, you're not crazy for working on your project. The actual simulation itself, that could actually be very cool and it's certainly a cool concept. Your hypothesis is cool as well and I can see you've put plenty of thought into it and by no means is it stupid. Sadly, through this whole ordeal you have missed the point completely, I'm not sure if it's because you don't want your critics to be right or you are just oblivious to it.

So I'm not sure how to make it clearer to you. I hope you do get it, maybe Jimpo's attachment will help things clearer as you sound as thought you're going to consider what he had presented as opposed to working against him like you are with us.

KickBack
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:06
I agree that the idea is cool and you do sound much more knowledgable than me but when you use the word prrof in the title of a thread people expect to see this..

Hypothesis
I predict that a bowling ball will bounce when dropped onto a concrete floor

Method
I will test this by taking various sized and weights bowling balls and drop them

Evidence
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yOMflB0AZU

Summary
I have proven that a bowling ball will bounce when dropped from height onto the floor
BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:34 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 02:47
Quote: "Hypothesis
I predict that a bowling ball will bounce when dropped onto a concrete floor

Method
I will test this by taking various sized and weights bowling balls and drop them

Evidence
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yOMflB0AZU

Summary
I have proven that a bowling ball will bounce when dropped from height onto the floor "


Actually, its more like this:

Observed Phenomenon
Bowling Balls Bounce

Hypothesis
Bowling balls bounce because they have a dark colour

Test of Hypothesis
Create a bowling ball with a light colour and one with a dark colour out of the same materials. Repeat the experiment for varying colours.
Drop balls from same height and plot graph against the number of bounces against colour.

Conclusion
Balls seemed to bounce at the same rate, therefore I can conclude that a dark colour does not cause a bowling ball to bounce.


If you to do the above steps, and after many tests of the hypothesis, if the evidence started to suggest that your hypothesis is correct, your paper would be subject to a peer review then bumped up to a Theory.
For Gravity and Evolution, they are both observable phenomenon. Natural Selection is the theory of Evolution, and the inverse square law is the theory of Gravity.

Both of the above theories are pretty much accepted as scientific fact. Most importantly newton's theory of gravity, as its done a pretty good job of landing spacecraft/humans on moons/planets.
Also Newton's theory of gravitation has done an amazing job of keeping the ISS and satellites in orbit for all these years, with minor tweaks, courtesy of Einstein.
Anyone who thinks that Newton wasn't a genius is a moron.


This also brings me to the reason why computer simulations can't be used as scientific proof. Just because your computer simulation is producing the same observable phenomenon, does not mean that our Universe behaves in the same way. Because what you are assuming is that there is only 1 way to create our natural world, but there could be millions.

Its like if I was to show you a really detailed version of a character model, and it looks realistic. If you were to ask an expert in the modelling field, they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
I then use this model to say, "I can now conclude that humanity is made up of polygons, shaders and textures".
It just doesn't work.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:48 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 02:51
Oh well I can't actually understand any of your logic. The Higgs Boson could prove the Standard Model wrong any day soon. By most of your reckoning you are all mad then. For believing in it. And I am supposed to listen to the ones about to be proved wrong. I just don't get the logic. You are all programmers.I posted a model of magnetism that can be programmed easily. But that means that I am crazy. The only thing I can make out is that if your head is full of backwards maths you start to call people crazy. That is the only sense that I can make of the replies. But I knew that at 11, so really...

My physics are in your kitchen sink. Newtons attraction never was proven.

Does it make any sense that I am supposed to believe invisible physics over visible ones?

BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:50 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 02:55
Grow up Pincho. If you want to be taken seriously, just grow up.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I suggested you read up on the scientific method a little more before you start mouthing off.

If you can do me a favour, look around your room and list all the things that science hasn't help create.
Surely as a programmer yourself (one who must pride himself in logic), if science and mathematics has brought us so much, surely its doing something right.

So yes, seriously. Grow up. Stop thinking you are the bees knees, because seriously, I've met my fair share of intelligent people, and I would rate you pretty low on the ladder after reading your threads.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:52
Quote: "Grow up Pincho. If you want to be taken seriously, just grow up."


Phhh religion..

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:53
Quote: "Oh well I can't actually understand any of your logic. The Higgs Boson could prove the Standard Model wrong any day soon. By most of your reckoning you are all mad then. For believing in it. And I am supposed to listen to the ones about to be proved wrong. I just don't get the logic. You are all programmers.I posted a model of magnetism that can be programmed easily. But that means that I am crazy. The only thing I can make out is that if your head is full of backwards maths you start to call people crazy. That is the only sense that I can make of the replies. But I knew that at 11, so really..."


You continue to miss the point. Are you doing this on purpose? I'm beginning to get the feeling you are.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:56
Quote: "Phhh religion.."


What is that even supposed to mean? What the hell is wrong with you?
You mock, but your hypothesis has no more merit than a religion.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 02:58 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:01
Quote: "What is that even supposed to mean? What the hell is wrong with you?
You mock, but your hypothesis has no more merit than a religion."


It works visibly. That is not a religion. You can make the physics in real life with a paper boat. There is no visible pull force, or attraction anywhere in the world. That's faith. Surely evolution would allow me to pull something towards me. Or some other creature on Earth would use it.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:02 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:05
Quote: "It works visibly. That is not a religion. You can make the physics in real life with a paper boat. There is no visible pull force, or attraction anywhere in the world. That's faith."


So if I were to say, water is a liquid and cool, therefore because liquid lead is a liquid, it must be cool also?

Can you not see the problem with thinking you are correct because you've found a correlation between 2 completely different things?
Its one thing to think you are on to something, but to actually believe you are correct without any shred of evidence puts you on par with people who are convinced they were abducted by aliens.

And no, science is not faith. Your complete lack of understanding of the scientific method could lead you to say something like that.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:04 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:05
Two? I have found a correlation with everything. I could write down about 1000 right now. If you check over the years I have posted at least 20 things before they were discovered.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:07 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:08
Quote: "Two? I have found a correlation with everything. I could write down about 1000 right now."


Yeah, and there probably 1000's of liquids too, doesn't mean they are all cool just because water is.
All you have is a hypothesis, just because you believe it, doesn't make it fact. And no matter how much you twoddle on about how amazing you think you are, doesn't change the fact that all you have is a hypothesis.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:09 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:10
Oh forget it. I'm crazy, I'm wrong you all win. well done! Champions.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:12 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:16
Quote: "Oh forget it. I'm crazy, I'm wrong you all win. well done! Champions."


You aren't wrong, because there is nothing to be wrong about.
You have a hypothesis. We can't prove its wrong just like all the other ideas out there and you can't prove its correct.

If you want to be taken seriously, find actual evidence to support your hypothesis. Unfortunately a simulation isn't evidence (for the reasons I mentioned above)

Some of your ideas make sense (Like flow of gravity/electromagnetism), but you can't go around calling science crap and everyone "idiots" for using "backwards maths?".
You will only be taken seriously if you have evidence. So maybe you should read up a little more on the scientific method, then start working on your thesis.

But this is my point again, because you behave like a child, no one will ever take you seriously even if you had proof. So I suggest you fix the attitude too.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:17
Quote: "Some of your ideas make sense..."


If only some of my ideas make sense I am mad. I lose.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:20 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:22
Quote: "If only some of my ideas make sense I am mad. I lose."


Science isn't about being right or wrong. Science is about the joy of discovery.

If you were to ask every scientist currently employed at CERN what outcome they were looking forward to the most, they would probably mostly answer "No higgs discovered", because that means the chase is back on!
Its the answer I was secretly hoping for, and its the answer a lot of my friends where hoping for to. Because it would have kicked up a load of dust, and it would have been pretty exciting stuff.

There is no shame in being "incorrect" in science. Either outcome is something to be celebrated.

KickBack
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:21
@bigadd
Yea that is more accurate I was just trying to put it in a way everyone would understand

@pincho
Why do you keep going on about the law of attraction, paper boats. It seems like this is the closest you get to an explanation but don't actually explain anything. Would you please elaborate?
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:40
Quote: "If you check over the years I have posted at least 20 things before they were discovered."


Not really sure about that seeing as some of things you claimed as "yours" in your last thread ended up being from different theories floating around (like the very hypothetical question regarding what would happen should a black hole randomly spawn in the sun with the same mass as the sun).

I'm really starting to get concerned about you. What on earth made you even start going on this week-long trek of trying to shove your so-called "theory of everything" into everyone's face, and go about it in such a way as to claim everyone else is wrong and then go on to title a thread "A Proof!" but then don't even provide any evidence of that? And why the hell start a separate thread for it and post a bunch of ludicrous nonsense such as "+1 + -1 = 0" which makes little to no sense out of context?

I'm no psychiatrist but I sense the words "attention seeker extreme" would suit you well. And that's unfortunate because I've seen you on these forums ever since I joined and you are a well-respected member, though lately you just seem to so full of trolling and even some hints of religion bashing; that's not the best way to represent yourself, mate.

-Yodaman Jer

Not contributing much of anything useful to the forums since September of 2007.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:49 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 04:01
It's to do with locality. The water and a boat are next to one another.

But with Gravity the force is at a distance called attraction.

There is no physical way to pull anything. You can put a hook on a particle, it can't pull still because the hook has to go behind whatever is moving. There are just no physics for a pull at all.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:51 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 03:55
Quote: "I'm really starting to get concerned about you. What on earth made you even start going on this week-long trek of trying to shove your so-called "theory of everything" into everyone's face, and go about it in such a way as to claim everyone else is wrong and then go on to title a thread "A Proof!" but then don't even provide any evidence of that? And why the hell start a separate thread for it and post a bunch of ludicrous nonsense such as "+1 + -1 = 0" which makes little to no sense out of context?"


because I think you are all crazy. It bugs me. You accept that the Standard Model can be wrong, but defend it. You don't even care if its wrong, and your heads are wasting away. You call me crazy, and maybe only have a few weeks left of the Standard Model. Which then makes you into me. It's like a sheep following crazy people, a cult, or religion. Not only that but the religion tells you not to care if it is wrong.

One of us is crazy. I go for what I can see visibly, and that makes it almost impossible to disprove me.

Quik
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 03:55
Quote: "because I think you are all crazy."


Well, I can't say I disagree - since my philosophical view on that is: there is no objective sense on crazy.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 04:02 Edited at: 15th Jul 2012 04:15
Quote: "Quote: "Some of your ideas make sense..."

If only some of my ideas make sense I am mad. I lose."


Only more evidence to add to BiggAdd's claim that you're acting like a child. Also more evidence to my claim that you're missing the point.

In fact, everytime somebody does make a point, you stonewall it. I'm afraid if you're going to stonewall, NOBODY will take you seriously. Unfortunately, I get into a lot of internet debate as I am a member of a forum designed for that purpose (I find it educational) and I also used to moderate it and have witnessed a lot of tactics used in a discussion and it can actually be pretty telling about a person's argument.

So the fact you're having to stonewall suggests to me that no, you don't have the ability to back up your claims.

Anybody I find who do have claims and can back up to those claims are able to engage people directly, understand their points and provide appropriate responses, they may even continue to disagree with one and another. But generally they understand why they disagree and can walk away having learned something and learning how they can improve their stance. It usually ends respectfully, even if it was a heated discussion and actually, it's how a lot of discussions on TGC usually go. Even when politics and religion manage to slide under the radar.

Anybody I find who are unable to back up their claims but wish to convince others will make claim after claim trying to use logic without much substance, send people around on a wild goose chase with dodging and stonewalling, shifting goalposts and even result to pettiness. Generally if the person is going to address their 'points' they'll pick small parts of the argument, usually more insignificant parts and avoid addressing the actual point of the argument. They'll end up frustrating their challengers. They'll engage in a manner than makes it so they don't have to fully address the main points or show that they're considering them. They'll be careful to cover their tracks if they're good at it, they may even take things out of context, throw a strawman maybe. Some will twist words, even their own. When called out, they become lawyers, who'll twist words and take things out of context and suddenly everything becomes extremely literalist, even though language itself is very figurative and will try to distort any meaning. The best will do all of the above and manage to go unnoticed (I can think of one guy - not from these forums - who does that VERY well). Their general intention is usually (not always) to try to get people off of their backs whilst maintaining that without a doubt that they're right. Some will try and take your criticisms and throw them at you, even if they don't apply, but they'll try to find someway of making you look like a hypocrite, this kind of connects with 'lawyering'.

In this discussion, I am seeing more traits from you applying to group 2 rather than group 1, which to me would seriously explain why people aren't taking you seriously. Though of course, if I am right, there is little use me posting this, because it won't really be addressed.

I am sorry I have to be as critical as I am, I hate putting folk down. But I hope you can walk away actually understanding why this thread has fallen a part and understand what you need to do to improve your stance before you attempt to gain support from the scientific community.

You're respected on these forums, so I'm sure there's nobody here enjoying this or getting a kick out of it.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 04:05
Quote: "because I think you are all crazy. It bugs me."


If it bugs you that we're crazy, then enlighten us by showing us proof. What would be really crazy would be to believe you without proof. So either way, we're all crazy, and you are the only sane guy on the planet. Not only that, but that fact will never change until you decide to prove yourself. But you don't want to do that, do you? Thus, I think you simply relish the feeling of being the only sane guy in the world, and will do everything to defend it. That's crazy for you.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 04:05
Quote: "One of us is crazy. I go for what I can see visibly, and that makes it almost impossible to disprove me."


Not really seeing as a lot of people reported seeing fairies way back when.

See, it's statements like the one above that make you sound extremely arrogant and insane.

-Yodaman Jer

Not contributing much of anything useful to the forums since September of 2007.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 04:12
There is no such thing as a proof against faith. The best thing to do is tell people that they are right. You are right.

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