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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Sumvision-Astro-7-tablet speed issues.

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DVader
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Posted: 27th Aug 2012 15:54
Hi all, a friend of mine got one of these recently. It looks a fairly good tablet for the money, but when testing out Moon Snaker on it, it struggles to run at full speed at times. On my phone it runs much better. Obliterator also runs slowly in comparison to my phone. Has anyone else tried this particular tablet? It also had issues with the calibration screen on the player, but that could be that the player in the store still isn't correct for 1076.
Here's a link to the tablet at ebuyer.
http://www.ebuyer.com/386278-sumvision-astro-7-tablet-pc-astro-7
The specs seem okay. On paper they look better than my phone, but in reality it doesn't seem to be so. Even the loading times seemed a lot slower than my phone (HTC Desire HD). I wonder how much android devices differ in performance like this?

Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 27th Aug 2012 20:27 Edited at: 27th Aug 2012 20:28
Here is your issue!

- ARM Cortex A8 1.2GHz
- 1GB RAM + 16GB Flash
- 7" Touch
- Webcam,
- Android 4.0.3
All android since 3.0 have gpu accelerated 2d as standard that doubles the memory usage.

Some simple solutions.

Use smaller media.
Lock the syncrate to 30 fps and adapt your game for it.

There is alot of iphone and android games that have an locked syncrate of 30 fps.

Agk is not the only app maker that have troubles with it .

Android 2.3 Gingerbread , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz cpu , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz cpu
Android 4.0 Sandwich , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , cortex A8 1.2 cpu , 1 gb ram.
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 27th Aug 2012 23:36
these highlighted may or may not be the culprits but one in particular caught my eye...

Quote: "
Processor •ARM Cortex A8 1.2GHz <--- Single core or Dual core?
Memory •1GB DDR3 RAM <--- this could also be a problem... lack of physical memory...
•16GB Flash
•Supports capacities of up to 32GB (SDHC)
Software •Operating system: Android 4.0.3
Display •7 “ LCD Multi-touch capacitive touch screen<--- this could be a key point... LCD? I do not recall them being LCD's often... I say this because my SGSII is SUPER AMOLED Plus
•16:9 Aspect Ratio
•Resolution: 800 x 480
Graphics •Mali-400 2D/3D graphics <--- my main culprit or guessing... I have never heard of this chip... and I often check into these things... perhaps my link below will help out...
Video Format Support •MPEG2/4, AVI, WMV, MKV, MOV, RM, RMVB
Picture Format Support •JPG, BMP, GIF, PNG
•Ebook Support: TXT, PBD, PDF, Epub, FB2, HTML
Audio •Format Support: MP3, WMA, OGG, FLAC
•Integrated Speakers
Networking •Supports WCDMA / CDMA EVDO (external 3G dongle required – sold separately)
•Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11b/g compliant
Power Supply •Polymer battery 3200mA
•Playtime approx. 7-5 hours
"


the battery is pretty powerful so I doubt its lack of power...

this is the link to the ARM Mali chip information...

I hope you figure this one out...

I am not sure but this may be of additional interest from the link above

Quote: "

OpenGL ES 1.1 Emulator

Enabling developers to develop and test their OpenGL ES 1.1 applications ahead of hardware availability

OpenGL ES 2.0 Emulator

Enabling developers to develop and test their OpenGL ES 2.0 applications ahead of hardware availability
"


I dunno which version of OpenGL AppGameKit relies on but if its on one of these emulated ones, that could be where the issue is...

I could however be completely wrong here as this is still a relatively new area to me...

nja
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Posted: 27th Aug 2012 23:46 Edited at: 27th Aug 2012 23:48
I actually just got a samsung galaxy phone with Android 4.0.3. I was testing my nearly finished game on it and it eventually gets to a point where it just freezes and you get the force close message after playing several times. The game is also much slower even though the galaxy has much better hardware than on my other phone (My Touch 4G), which has android 2.3. The game works beautifully on the android 2.3 phone. Could this be due to the gpu accelerated issue?
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 00:13 Edited at: 28th Aug 2012 00:14
Quote: "Could this be due to the gpu accelerated issue?"

Its a well known issue with the gpu accelerated feature.

Its simply that it hoggs your memory as it doubles the usage or even more.

But it would be better if paul or someone at tgc could fill us in on the issue with sandwich and higher with agk.

And valentine 1gb ram on an mobile device is very good

Android 2.3 Gingerbread , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz cpu , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz cpu
Android 4.0 Sandwich , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , cortex A8 1.2 cpu , 1 gb ram.
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 28th Aug 2012 01:00
on my SGSII I had to go into Developer Options to enable it, so it should in theory be disabled on all handsets by default... so maybe put this on your store page mentioning to disable it?

Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 01:25 Edited at: 28th Aug 2012 01:26
Quote: "on my SGSII I had to go into Developer Options to enable it, so it should in theory be disabled on all handsets by default... so maybe put this on your store page mentioning to disable it?"

The developer note about android is that since 3.0 so is it on by default if the hardware manufacturer dont disable it when they modify android for there device.

I belive its intended more for tegra devices?

galaxy 2 dont have sandwich from start but you have to download it?
It have gingerbread from the box but is upgradable to sandwich.

I havent messed so much with the sandwich errors with agk but maybe later.

Android 2.3 Gingerbread , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz cpu , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz cpu
Android 4.0 Sandwich , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , cortex A8 1.2 cpu , 1 gb ram.
Hodgey
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 05:48
Quote: "Its a well known issue with the gpu accelerated feature.

Its simply that it hoggs your memory as it doubles the usage or even more."

If the program fits in RAM then it shouldn't be too slow should it? However, if it doesn't fit in RAM because of the doubling usage issue then wouldn't it crash instead of just slowing down? The acceleration could be CPU/GPU expensive and like Mr Valentine I've never heard of the Mali gpu. There could be a bottleneck somewhere but AppGameKit will have multithreading capabilities (for box2d at least) very soon!

DVader
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 15:30
Thanks for all the ideas guys. Lot's of food for thought.
I'm not sure why having a GPU would double the memory useage, but I couldn't say it doesn't either. I would have thought having a GPU of any kind would speed things up if anything, and a lack of one would slow things down. Moon Snaker is quite big for a mobile app, at 37 MB or so, but it would hardly fill the memory of the device even if you do double it up. My other game Obliterator is currently about 90MB (so far lol), so it would suffer even more if that is actually the case.
I agree the Mali-400 2D/3D graphics could well be the culprit. I am not up on arm chip-sets or the various video hardware available as such. This could be an equivalent of an intel onboard video compared to a full geforce or ati card as far as I know (i.e. rubbish). Still, it seems to run other apps ok in comparison to both my projects at the moment.
I have also noticed it can be mega slow to load, and sometimes will come up that it is not responding, and the option to quit or wait appears. Also it seemed dodgy shutting down the app, but I couldn't say for sure as the tablet was whisked off before I could do a whole lot of tests
The joys of different specs I suppose.

I also wonder if it is the new OS being more bloaty. It is supposed to run faster than the old ones, but does it really? It does sound that the new OS is causing issues, whether it is due to more bloat or the way it handles OpenGL. If it is emulated as I read above that would explain it. Still if there are lots of devices with issues like this, now it certainly needs looking into.

MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 15:53
I have noticed my SGSII become more crash prone ever since the upgrade to 4.0.x

and i can not downgrade to the original now as 4.0.1 has become my factory reset default

unless i have a look at that boot format option list... but I guess I am stuck with a crashing phone... can not wait for Windows8 ablets to come out and darn well hoping BT [British Telecom] stock it when they are out... as my current contract ends around May next year... [currently with O2... and will be glad to leave them when I do ]

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 17:14
Mali is not uncommon. But maybe its in cheaper phones? 1GB of RAM is standard for top of the line phones. I don't know of any exciting Android devices with 2 GB. I know that it is coming soon, think it was a tablet.

Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 28th Aug 2012 17:48 Edited at: 28th Aug 2012 18:39
Quote: "If the program fits in RAM then it shouldn't be too slow should it? However, if it doesn't fit in RAM because of the doubling usage issue then wouldn't it crash instead of just slowing down? The acceleration could be CPU/GPU expensive and like Mr Valentine I've never heard of the Mali gpu. There could be a bottleneck somewhere but AppGameKit will have multithreading capabilities (for box2d at least) very soon!"

You should bare in mind that a phone dont only have your app in memory but alot of widgets and other functions while you play in the background.
So if the memory usage is doubled with your app so would also the freespace that the background apps use be limited.
You can do a simple experiment by removing 2 gb ram from your computer and see wath happens
Mine at least gets slow and sluggish.
If iam not wrong so does also android try to compensate low memory by creating virtual memory on internal flash or sd card.

But there is also something else that is the problem with sandwich and agk.

Gpu accelerated function on 3.0 and later is the only known fact that i know that slows apps down on android.
And its well known on mobile dev forums.
And is many times recomended to turn of by default in the manifest file there.

Quote: "I have noticed my SGSII become more crash prone ever since the upgrade to 4.0.x

and i can not downgrade to the original now as 4.0.1 has become my factory reset default

unless i have a look at that boot format option list... but I guess I am stuck with a crashing phone... can not wait for Windows8 ablets to come out and darn well hoping BT [British Telecom] stock it when they are out... as my current contract ends around May next year... [currently with O2... and will be glad to leave them when I do ]"

I must say that iam not that big fan of sandwich either that i have on my 10 inch pad,feels slow compared to gingerbread.

Quote: "I'm not sure why having a GPU would double the memory useage, but I couldn't say it doesn't either. I would have thought having a GPU of any kind would speed things up if anything, and a lack of one would slow things down. Moon Snaker is quite big for a mobile app, at 37 MB or so, but it would hardly fill the memory of the device even if you do double it up. My other game Obliterator is currently about 90MB (so far lol), so it would suffer even more if that is actually the case."

You are taking this wrong as your app during play uses alot more memory then that

A 2 mb app in size can use 90 mb of ram,its up to how many sprites and physics calculations it do etc

The main problem i see is that on no tegra devices so is this emulated?

I have a function on my pad that shows the memory usage i belive ?
If i find it and get it to work so could i try some simple agk apps and see the differrence on gingerbread and sandwich.

Edited ..........
I found a good article here !

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/02/sony_ics/

Short bit from it.


and that the support for hardware-accelerated graphics across the board means even things as mundane as the Settings app need a couple of MB more than they used to.

That leads to memory shortages, which in turn forces Android to shut down background activities such as the home screen or dialler to make space. So when a user quits a game there's a delay in restarting those apps, making the system appear slow.


Edited...........
Downloaded and tested moonsnaker and found no performance issues on my sandwich pad?
And its not any better then yours dvader
Its an dmtech pad

The only things are the usuall sprites that have borders at some times and blurry sprites.

It uses a bit more cpu then many other apps but not that terrible at all?

Android 2.3 Gingerbread , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz cpu , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz cpu
Android 4.0 Sandwich , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , cortex A8 1.2 cpu , 1 gb ram.
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 28th Aug 2012 18:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGSII

BLOODY HELL... that Mali400 is in my SGSII lol I could never find out what gpu was in my phone and never thought to wikipedia it lol

guys wikipedia your phones and tablets lol there are slight differences in variants too... look at the bottom of that page for android devices listings...

hope this helps...

also to note the importance of the variants

Quote: "
GPU

ARM Mali-400 MP4 (GT-I9100) <--- this is my variant
PowerVR SGX540 (GT-I9100G)
Qualcomm Adreno 220 (GT-I9210)
"


DVader
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Posted: 30th Aug 2012 19:21
@ Cliff, so the game ran ok on your tablet? No moments of quite severe slowdown? I'm thinking the end boss will go really slow on the tablet I tested on
I see a few people mention disabling the GPU feature, that seems more like a curse lol. I haven't had chance to look at it again since my initial tests. If so and it improves the game it may be worth me mentioning it in the description possibly. Even better if TGC could look into a way for your game to do it automatically if needed, and resume it after play.

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