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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Language/Engine Selection

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MarcoBruti
13
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Joined: 20th Nov 2011
Location: Caput Mundi
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 09:58
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maybe only Lee Bamber would be able to write FIFA2012 starting from int main() {}
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baxslash
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17
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Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 11:14
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Quote: "maybe only Lee Bamber would be able to write FIFA2012 starting from int main() {} "

He did...


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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The Daddy
15
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Joined: 13th Jan 2009
Location: Essex
Posted: 24th Sep 2012 21:16
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It is so funny reading this trail. The procedural oop arguments have been raging on and on and always will until something new comes and starts a new argument.

HOWEVER....If you have a large application using OOP is quicker, far more logical, is easier to maintain or update and far easier to debug. Those are provable FACTS. I appreciate lots of coders like procedural coding and often cannot get their heads around this methodology. But, once you do you will wonder how you managed without it.

I personally find it quite hard to go back to use procedural coding. It is not robust and when you have ten or so source files everything just gets harder using just procedures or functions.

Constantly seeking!
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The Daddy
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Joined: 13th Jan 2009
Location: Essex
Posted: 26th Sep 2012 14:16
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OOP all the way for me. I the greatest hurdle I have faced with AppGameKit is the going back to procedural programming and all of its 'quaintness'.

It is a FACT that when working on large apps with multiple source files OOP is faster to code, and cleaner to read, and easier to maintain and far far easier to debug. Those are FACTS whether u luv em or hate em.

Bring on the OOP. Once bitten you will wonder how you managed to use procedural coding.

Constantly seeking!
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 15:23
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I think that our discussion is completely no use, because I do not see clear signs (or signs at all) from TGC about the willing to do some changes to the core language. I suspect that for them would be too expensive in terms of costs to do that. But at this point I wonder about how they expect to make money:
- Freedom-Engine? Sorry for the hard comment, but it is not usable at all for serious purposes. I think very few users, apart "aficionados" or TGC employees, would buy the paid subscription, unless they have got some money to throw out of they wallet.
- AppGameKit? AppGameKit is too cheap. How many copies do they have to sell in order to recover from development costs? Maybe are they selling a lot of non-community licenses. I suspect not because product is not mature enough.
- Selling their own apps (with related advertisements)? I do not know how many apps they have sold, maybe they make money with that, but in that case I suppose they use some advanced AppGameKit version we normal customers do not have. And this would make me get angry
So I hardly understand their business model and business case. For a customer perspective, I think that if they want to make AppGameKit widespread, they have to add more features and fix the bugs, otherwise it will remain a niche product, used internally by TGC and by some passionate users and no more.
A serious plan for new releases and bug fixing, with paid major releases and free bug fix, would help a lot.
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baxslash
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 15:34 Edited at: 26th Sep 2012 15:35
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Quote: " I do not see clear signs (or signs at all) from TGC about the willing to do some changes to the core language."

As I already said, I am pushing for this internally as I think it would help a great deal. Whether or not it is possible is another matter.

Quote: " Freedom-Engine? Sorry for the hard comment, but it is not usable at all for serious purposes. I think very few users, apart "aficionados" or TGC employees, would buy the paid subscription, unless they have got some money to throw out of they wallet."

That is harsh but it is early days. We have FE creating apk's in the lab that can be dropped straight onto an Android device... that might make it a little more useful no?

Quote: " I suppose they use some advanced AppGameKit version we normal customers do not have. And this would make me get angry"

It's a shame you think we're holding back from the community. I think we have explained our reasons for not putting a buggy, unfinished release out.

Quote: "I think that if they want to make AppGameKit widespread, they have to add more features and fix the bugs"

Again, that's what we're doing

Quote: "A serious plan for new releases and bug fixing, with paid major releases and free bug fix, would help a lot."

We are working hard to release a new version (V108) right now. Lee and the others are working their socks off on the next release and I don't remember us ever charging for a bug fix?

I understand why the community is getting frustrated but have patience and try to have faith that the product will work out as it should. If it doesn't my job isn't going to work out either so you know I want these things as much as you guys do right?


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 17:56
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Thanks for the reply.
All good news that I hope will be become a reality, if not all at least some of them.
The direct APK generation is very appealing for sure
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bjadams
AGK Backer
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 18:50
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Marco, obviously they have the next version under testing.
Every toolset works like that no?

The only factor against TGC is that their release rate is slower when compared to other companies. But they never promised us any faster release frequency so there is nothing wrong there.

In my opinion FE will always loose when compared to other much more mature buy-it-once HTML5 toolsets, because FE will always be the last kid on the block. But I hope that TGC will make good profits from this new venture.
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xCept
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Posted: 27th Sep 2012 03:15
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Quote: "In my opinion FE will always loose when compared to other much more mature buy-it-once HTML5 toolsets, because FE will always be the last kid on the block. But I hope that TGC will make good profits from this new venture."


To be honest, I have become increasingly suspicious of FE's future. Its "Road Map" page has quietly been deleted from the site, where it used to list planned milestones (see below). I stopped using the FE forum after making a couple helpful posts and never getting them "approved" even days later, while spam has made it through. I have no idea why TGC didn't just create another board on this forum where the users are, rather than using a default phpbb install and requiring everyone to create new accounts and wait for each post to be approved. The FE approach is ambitious but leaves a lot to be desired, I will stick to AGK.

Quote: "FE Original Road Map

October 2012 - Export for HTML5 (WebGL)

December 2012 - Export for iOS (ipa), Android (apk), AppUp (exe), Windows 8 (metro) (zip) and Mac (app)

Extended 3D commands (bone animation, multiple textures, static lights, batching)

February 2013 - Online social high scores

March 2013 - Live Debugging"
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Hodgey
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Posted: 27th Sep 2012 08:40
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Quote: "I stopped using the FE forum after making a couple helpful posts and never getting them "approved" even days later, while spam has made it through. "

I believe the post approval has been lifted on the FE forums now and any spam is either locked or deleted by admins pretty quickly (typically within 24 hours). But I see your point. FE is fun to play around with right now but I'm sticking with AppGameKit because I'm a fan of T2.

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baxslash
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Posted: 27th Sep 2012 10:51
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Quote: " Its "Road Map" page has quietly been deleted from the site"

Probably this is being changed / updated although I haven't heard about any changes.

Quote: "I have no idea why TGC didn't just create another board on this forum where the users are, rather than using a default phpbb install and requiring everyone to create new accounts and wait for each post to be approved."

I think FE is aimed at a new market. AppGameKit users have shown generally that they are not that keen on the idea so perhaps it's as well that it was marketed differently?

FE has a heck of a lot of potential and is something TGC have been wanting to do for years. I wouldn't dismiss it because it isn't obvious where it's going, if I'd done that all along my life would have been very boring

Hodgey is right about the post approval being lifted, registering has been made harder for spammers. I'm sorry you've been discouraged but I would suggest giving it another go at some point as there are some very cool plans for the IDE.


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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Mobiius
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Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 27th Sep 2012 19:23
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I'll only use FE for rapid packaging to mobile platforms. Copy & paste code and media to the site, package the app, then remove all content.

That is the only reason I'll use FE, and if it works I'll be a very happy chappie.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
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bjadams
AGK Backer
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Posted: 27th Sep 2012 20:57
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how about a proper roadmap for AppGameKit so we know when to expect the next version!
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xCept
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Joined: 15th Dec 2002
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 02:02 Edited at: 28th Sep 2012 02:03
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Quote: "I believe the post approval has been lifted on the FE forums now and any spam is either locked or deleted by admins pretty quickly (typically within 24 hours)."


I have now posted four messages over the past 1-2 weeks that never showed up, one of which I just made now. I still get the notice:

"This message has been submitted successfully, but it will need to be approved by a moderator before it is publicly viewable. You will be notified when your post has been approved."

And they are never approved.

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see FE succeed. I've been using TGC products since at least v1.4 of DB Classic I think the effort to create an online IDE capable of all that AppGameKit is, is extremely ambitious.
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baxslash
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 10:50 Edited at: 28th Sep 2012 10:54
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xCept, I'll look at your account now, I'm very very sorry. All I can say is that the whole TGC team is very busy at the moment and I will fix your account straight away. I don't understand how it was missed tbh.

FE is an ambitious project but it's one that we are certain will work, we wouldn't have started it otherwise

As a famous freedom fighter once said, "there's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path"

EDIT: Your account should be fine now, I've also approved your posts, sorry!


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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