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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBP General Questions and Announcements

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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 30th Mar 2014 00:15 Edited at: 1st Dec 2014 19:46
Open chat is welcome here! Think of this as sort of a hangout spot.

Feel free to use this thread for your own purposes.

I made this thread to use when an entire new thread doesn't need to be created - to post announcements and minor questions, and to use this thread to bump other threads.

FREE RESOURCE LIST [WIP]

DBPRO PLUGINS
Collision & Physics:
SPARKY'S COLLISION
NEWTON GAME DYNAMICS
Image Editing:
IMAGE KIT V2
Multi-Purpose:
MATRIX1UTILS
ADVANCED 2D

FREE MODELS
Variety Pack:
SHADOWARTEC BONANZA
City Models:
TGC URBAN PACK
Character:
SOLDIER LEGS
LOW-POLY ZOMBIE
Trees & Plants:
LOOPIX-PROJECT

3D MODELING & ANIMATION
BLENDER
ANIM8OR
WINGS3D
FRAGMOTION

LIGHT & TEXTURE MAPPING
ADRENALINE BUMP
XNORMAL
SMARTNORMAL

GENERAL IMAGE EDITING
PIXLR
TEXTURE MAKER (free evaluation)
SEAMLESS TEXTURE UTILITY

MUSIC & AUDIO
SFXR
BFXR
AUDACITY
SOUND CLUB

DIRECTX
DIRECTX SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT KIT

NVIDIA
FX COMPOSER
SHADER DEBUGGER
SHADER LIBRARY

(...to be expanded as time permits.)

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 30th Mar 2014 16:44
I was thinking about making a 2048 clone in DBP, but my son has also recently downloaded DBP and it looks like he's ready to dive in, so I'm putting that on hold for now.

Has anyone else played/solved 2048? I rarely make it past 512!
I personally know one guy that solved it, but that's it.

666GO†O666
Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 30th Mar 2014 17:23
I just tried out 2048. It's quite good, but gets a bit boring after awhile.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 30th Mar 2014 21:17
Quote: "I just tried out 2048. It's quite good, but gets a bit boring after awhile."


I agree, I only play about 2 or 3 times daily at the most.
If I ever solve it, I probably won't play again.

Seven Little Words, on the other hand is quite dandy!

666GO†O666
ShellfishGames
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Posted: 30th Mar 2014 22:06 Edited at: 30th Mar 2014 22:10
How funny. My sister showed me that game just a few hours ago. Made it to 512 as well and one of my first thoughts was "man, I gotta write an AI for this" - which shouldn't be too hard. A simple heuristic function and precalculating 5-10 moves each time should already do a lot better than me, so I guess beating the game with it is possible as well. We'll see.

Edit: I kind of forgot about the random element of the game (new 2s or 4s being created), so that kind of ruins my plans for the AI. But maybe it will work out anyway... need to think about this.

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 31st Mar 2014 00:14
Quote: "I kind of forgot about the random element of the game (new 2s or 4s being created), so that kind of ruins my plans for the AI. But maybe it will work out anyway... need to think about this."


I'd be glad test any versions you come up with!

I have a game concept I want to turn into an app, but I need to learn the AppGameKit syntax first.

666GO†O666
ShellfishGames
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Posted: 31st Mar 2014 01:22 Edited at: 31st Mar 2014 13:09
Well, I just wrote a small remake of the game and a first draft of the AI. It did get to 1024, so further than I did so far. Have to add iterative deepening of the min max search now for a better usage of time.

The random element I mentioned really makes quite a difference... the player can only do 4 possible moves (sometimes less), but the "opponent" (randomness) can do up to 28 different moves (in the worst case there are 14 empty fields, each can either become 2 or 4). So for depth one (one move by each player) I have to take up to 4*28 moves into consideration, for depth two up to (4*28)² and so on, so depth 3 is already more than my computer can handle within a reasonable time frame of a few seconds. Screw you, randomness!


Edit: Added iterative deepening and fixed a (rather influential..) bug. It works pretty well now, but didn't make it last time...


(transparent number in the top right corner = points, using the same system as the original game)

But it got pretty close. Sort of.


Edit: It always seems to get to something between 15,000 and 16,000 points, always ending up with one 1024 and at least one of all the numbers below. I'm not too sure if that's due to the AI being not good enough, or if it's just a matter of luck if you can get any further than that.

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 31st Mar 2014 04:28
Looks cool!!

666GO†O666
ShellfishGames
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Posted: 31st Mar 2014 14:20
I just stumbled upon a very interesting Stack Overflow discussion on the topic. Certainly worth a read for anyone interested in this kind of AI programming (or the theory behind it).

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 04:15 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2014 04:20
Some of that makes sense to me. My approach is not only to choose the most merges, but also I seem to have the best runs when I pick 3 directions and only use the 4th when necessary. (I usually exclude down)

In unrelated news,
I've been attempting to learn the AppGameKit syntax for the last 2 days.
At a glance you'd think it was just 'DBP part II' but I've already hit snags on almost everything I've tried to code.
The free trial seems to exclude 3D commands or something!

666GO†O666
wattywatts
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 05:13
Quote: "The free trial seems to exclude 3D commands or something!"

The same thing happened to me when I tried it. I was all geared up to buy it but after trying the demo and finding no 3d support (can anyone confirm if it's locked out of the demo, or are people just finding creative ways to pull it off?) I decided against it.
I wish they would have used the same syntax as dbpro.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 23:44
Quote: "The same thing happened to me when I tried it. I was all geared up to buy it but after trying the demo and finding no 3d support (can anyone confirm if it's locked out of the demo, or are people just finding creative ways to pull it off?) I decided against it."


Well I tried to use the DrawLine command today and apparently that also has been excluded from Tier 1 features.

There is a 3D section in the help documentation, so I assume the full version of AppGameKit will do nearly everything that DBPro can do.

666GO†O666
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 21:49 Edited at: 15th Apr 2014 21:50
Can anyone tell me why the vertex being selected isn't the same one that's being moved??

Am I overlooking something obvious again??



666GO†O666
chafari
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 22:55
Quote: "Can anyone tell me why the vertex being selected isn't the same one that's being moved??"


It is weird...looks like the plane is mirrored, but found a solution, scaling plane to -100,100,100 . We've got a plane that has to triangles and six vertex, so vertex will move independent.




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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 15th Apr 2014 23:59
Quote: "It is weird...looks like the plane is mirrored, but found a solution, scaling plane to -100,100,100 . We've got a plane that has to triangles and six vertex, so vertex will move independent."


That is too weird!!
DBP never ceases to amaze me with new "tricks" both good and bad.

I guess we still don't know why, but as long as I can map the entire object that's all that matters.
Thanks Chafari!!

666GO†O666
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 19th Apr 2014 22:50 Edited at: 19th Apr 2014 22:51
I just uploaded a (hopefully) working version of a basic block builder program. This was one of my early projects from a couple of years ago. It's designed for use with a gamepad or the keyboard, but is much more fun with a gamepad.

Here's one my daughter made of 'Sheik' from Zelda:


"Z-CUBEZ" Simple Sandbox Block Builder

666GO†O666
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Apr 2014 23:03
Just change this::



to this:



and your code snippet works as expected.

Default DBPro plains have some oddities which I don't really understand.



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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 20th Apr 2014 05:27 Edited at: 20th Apr 2014 05:28
Quote: "and your code snippet works as expected.
Default DBPro plains have some oddities which I don't really understand."


Thanks, that is awesome!!
Seeing this is the only good thing that's happened to me today.
This is a good omen for the rest of the year.

Building on this, hopefully my next experiment will be useful to someone, if I ever get around to it!

666GO†O666
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 24th Apr 2014 13:31 Edited at: 24th Apr 2014 13:33
I've put together a little code to render a terrain or rock wall from a heightmap. I decided to use triangles to build the mesh instead of plains.

I made this so I could save terrain and wall objects to .X format and texture paint them by hand in Blender. It uses POINT to read the heightmap, but could easily be changed to memblock reading for perhaps a little faster performance.

Render Walls or Ground From Heightmap



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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 1st May 2014 04:49 Edited at: 1st May 2014 05:04
[Bump]

Playing around with Advanced Terrain...

Scene includes standard fog, scrolling "skydomes" and the background mountain range (white layer) was rendered with my code mentioned in the post above.

I've managed to get the scale large enough for a somewhat believeable flight area while using as few vertices (small heightmap) as practically possible. I wanted a dusky look like Mars but with more of an atmosphere.



666GO†O666
Chris Tate
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Posted: 2nd May 2014 18:55
Nice looking scene

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 2nd May 2014 23:56
Thanks Chris!
Unfortunately there isn't much detail to look at, but I guess fog makes any scene look better.

I feel like I'm "flying blind" trying to figure out the best way to do large landforms... I may switch back to tiling multiple land objects based on player proximity.

The real problem I have with flying games is trying to fly at high altitudes without 'giving away' the edges of the land. I just don't seem to have the knack for realism that some folks do.

666GO†O666
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 3rd May 2014 00:22
Cheap vid:



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wattywatts
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Posted: 6th May 2014 06:11 Edited at: 6th May 2014 06:12
Anybody remember my old WIP from last year, max vs mars? I've been updating the graphics and working on enemy AI. I think I may try to finish this one, it's just hard coming up with level ideas (I totally stole the theme of this one from mega man x).
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th May 2014 12:58
Quote: "Nice looking scene"


Seconded.



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Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 6th May 2014 13:16 Edited at: 6th May 2014 13:18
Quote: "Cheap vid:"


The ship looks very jagged. There are reasons for this...

1/The mesh is not welded.
2/ The mesh has bad smoothing.
3/ The image is 2D, and not drawn all that well.

Solutions...

1/ weld the mesh.
2/ Smooth the mesh.
3/ Render the ship in a renderer. Anim8or is free, and does a good job of rendering 3D to 2D.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 6th May 2014 15:27 Edited at: 6th May 2014 15:29
Quote: "The ship looks very jagged. There are reasons for this..."


Very astute, young jedi.
The terrain was really more the point of the vid, although not a finished work either.

The ship was something I made quickly with Sculptris, and is really more of a shape than a ship. My plan is to subdivide the polys and texture paint in Blender, render a normal map from the texture on the SmartNormal webpage and smooth in DBPro.

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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 6th May 2014 15:38 Edited at: 6th May 2014 15:39
Quote: "Anybody remember my old WIP from last year, max vs mars?"


Cool Watty ! I've never seen your Max vs Mars thread.
I'll have to take my controller to work this morning and download the demo.

666GO†O666
Chris Tate
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Posted: 6th May 2014 16:10
Quote: "Unfortunately there isn't much detail to look at, but I guess fog makes any scene look better."


You do not need detail to make a good scene. The colour and atmosphere looks great. One of my key principles at present is to have one focal point. Too much detail in the wrong place is distracting; unless you are making the next typical Call of Duty release; in which case anything goes.

Is this a series long term project or a bit of short term fun for you?

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 6th May 2014 18:38
Quote: "Too much detail in the wrong place is distracting; unless you are making the next typical Call of Duty release"


That's a good point - sometimes I look at other developers' styles and worry that mine's not up to par (Like when I watch a Terragen video and think I should just give up!) but then I realize that I just have to make the best games I can, with a style that looks good to me.

Quote: "Is this a series long term project or a bit of short term fun for you?"


This is one of 8 long-term ideas, 4 for PC and 4 for mobile. I know I'm stretching myself thin this way, but unfortunately I get bored with one project very quickly. I feel it's better to work when inspired and not just trudging through it.

Money is my main holdup right now... I need a faster PC and money for the editors, plugins and models I want.

666GO†O666
Chris Tate
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Posted: 6th May 2014 21:36 Edited at: 6th May 2014 21:40
You should consider synergistic consolidation. Consolidation to combine them into one or two interesting projects, doing so with synergy so that the projects compliment each other, rather than get in the way.

I started doing this a few years ago after some inspiration from Bert Monroy (this guy who made a 25 ft painting of Time Square and various people in New York with nothing but Photoshop and Illustrator; each aspect of the painting were a project on their own).



He made such a diversified panorama because he got to bored of the previous painting which featured too much repetitive work.

You get the benefit of working on various interests in one or two projects. Just think up some kind of a way of relating the projects. Be it under a highscore system, a cartoon or comic series or have an hierarchy of projects and sub-projects.

My game engine is the parent project and my games and tools are sub-projects. Working on one is working on the whole.

wattywatts
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Posted: 6th May 2014 21:46
The only way I know of to stay single minded on one project is to work with others. If you slack off you'll feel like a douche for letting them down.
Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 6th May 2014 22:16
Quote: "Money is my main holdup right now... I need a faster PC and money for the editors, plugins and models I want."


Models you should try to make.
Chris Tate
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Posted: 6th May 2014 23:03
I second that. Make your own models.

If you can manage get a team together that would be a blessing.

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 7th May 2014 06:47 Edited at: 7th May 2014 06:50
I'm not terrible at modeling... there's a YouTube tutorial for just about everything including the kitchen urinal.

Unfortunately, my old Dell will barely run Blender, which is mainly my program of choice, and this graphics card doesn't support most shaders, shadows, etc, so it's like trying to make sushi out of dog poo.

One day I'll have a kick-ass PC and things should take off from there. I just have 4 more years of @$#%&! child support to pay, but after that you'll hear a news story about a guy doing the moonwalk while eating cotton candy and singing "Money" by Pink Floyd while crapping rainbows with glitter and sparkles and... and... oh, what a happy day!!!

I mean, I'll have a new computer before then. Just got ahead of myself there.

666GO†O666
Chris Tate
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Posted: 7th May 2014 09:16
lol.

I am sure that you can find a good deal somewhere. When I started I built a PC with minimal specifications then gradually added new hardware to it. You can find a PC decent enough to run blender for less than £100 or $150; I am using one.

VisualProg
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Posted: 7th May 2014 09:17
Quote: "Unfortunately, my old Dell will barely run Blender, which is mainly my program of choice"

There is always a rewarding experience. I used a simple editor like zmodeler. On very old PC I had to write DirectX Mesh *.x on notepad. So PC - not a problem. When you receive a new computer - will be a new level of knowledge, but you did not lost time

MZh[NUL] <---

Barry Pythagoras
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Posted: 7th May 2014 11:15 Edited at: 7th May 2014 11:16
Quote: "Unfortunately, my old Dell will barely run Blender, which is mainly my program of choice, and this graphics card doesn't support most shaders, shadows, etc, so it's like trying to make sushi out of dog poo."


My first computer could run Anim8or, and make spaceships. That was years ago. You don't need shaders if you render the textures. You can render the shadows, and metal effects directly to the UV map. You can make reflections by putting a transparent model over the first model, scale it up a bit, and scroll the texture.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 7th May 2014 19:31 Edited at: 7th May 2014 19:42
Quote: "You can make reflections by putting a transparent model over the first model, scale it up a bit, and scroll the texture"


I like that idea!
That's definitely worth experimenting with. Anything that adds a unique flavor to a game without costing FPS is always good.

Baked and rendered shadows are very efficient, but really only good for fixed objects under fixed light sources. I actually like the look of DBP/Direct X native shadows when I've used them here at work, although probably not the most efficient for framerates.



666GO†O666
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 9th May 2014 05:47 Edited at: 9th May 2014 05:48
Does anyone know of a thread that explains how to properly call the correct DLL for browsing files?

I know how to code file searches with DBP commands, but it seems much more practical to use the standard search boxes (like the one pictured)



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 9th May 2014 23:29
I use the Styx plugin to open up the file dialog window. I am not sure which DLL API you can call from DBPRO to achieve the same.

Derek Darkly
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Posted: 10th May 2014 04:47
Quote: "I use the Styx plugin to open up the file dialog window. I am not sure which DLL API you can call from DBPRO to achieve the same."


I might end up buying that if I can't work something out.
There's some code on this thread that seems to possibly hold the key, but it won't compile for me.

I wish I at least knew an easy way to simply open a second window.
There's so much stuff I don't know how to do!

666GO†O666
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 10th May 2014 06:58
Gotta love the forums... found this from 2005.



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chafari
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Posted: 10th May 2014 11:46
Quote: "Gotta love the forums... found this from 2005."


Wow!! Great code indeed. I will use it for my editors .

Thanks Derek Darkly

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th May 2014 14:05 Edited at: 10th May 2014 14:12
You could look at the code posted by Stab In The Dark Software on my Seamless Texture Utility thread. I've used various versions of that code many times since and it works well. Here's the link to the thread:

Example of how to use Windows file dialogues



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chafari
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Posted: 10th May 2014 15:27
@GG
I had seen this example, very good by the way,but I had not realized the pop-up dialog box. I just was astonished by the result of your seamless images

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th May 2014 16:16
Perhaps you saw my original version - before I added SITDS's code snippets.



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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 10th May 2014 17:26 Edited at: 10th May 2014 17:41
Here you go dialog box code.
This is what we are going to include in all of our Bullet Physics Demos.



[img][/img]


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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 10th May 2014 17:33 Edited at: 10th May 2014 17:35
sry double post

WindowsXP SP3,Vista,Windows 7 SP1, DBpro v7.7RC7
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chafari
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Posted: 10th May 2014 19:47
Quote: "Perhaps you saw my original version - before I added SITDS's code snippets"


I downloaded your example where you gave credits to Stab In The Dark Software

@Stab In The Dark Software
Thanks for the code, this one is much more elaborated.

Cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa

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