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Work in Progress / Abandoned Compo Entry Tech Demo [ragdolls]

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walaber
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 13:47
well I was going to enter the compo, but I've realized I simply don't have the time to complete the game I originally invisioned.

fo those curious, it was to be an Operation Wolf game, on-rails similar to The House of the Dead. it was to take place in a Hollywood Horror Movie Wax Museum, where the wax statues had somehow come to life, and were terrorizing the patrons. you come in to stop them.

anyways, I got as far as making a tech demo to show the main engine, which I'm posting here. it features an on-rails camera, and you can shoot the monsters, who then become ragdolls mid-animation.

this tech demo shows the instant ragdoll generation, and all of the movement is controlled by Physics. if anyone is interested in how I did the ragdoll setup, I'd be glad to explain it. the demo only lasts about 30 seconds, and obviously the graphics are placeholders. the main reason I've given up on this project is because the amount of modelling and graphic work that would be required... ah well, it's a cool tech demo.






DOWNLOAD DEMO:
http://walaber.com/misc/instarag.rar

note that the ragdoll generation code is still very rough, and currently requires a sync command in the middle... in the real version this would be eliminated. however the shooting code is pretty cool, the limb you click on gets an impulse added to it, so you can shoot out the monster's legs, arms, etc. enjoy!

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walaber
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 13:57 Edited at: 20th Aug 2004 14:03
[edit] no longer relevant.

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 14:24
Ok, I'll make a few models, if I have some spare time.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
zircher
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 15:00
The demo is a hoot! I'd volunteer, but my plate is full with other projects.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Manticore Night
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 15:05
Mine kinda screws up when I run it. Newton error.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
walaber
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 16:14
there are some bugs still... you can get some "body doesn't exist" errors in some cases.

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David T
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Posted: 18th Aug 2004 18:45 Edited at: 18th Aug 2004 20:17
This looks incredibly promising, this feature will definately be working its way into Merc 2

I like the limb impulse idea. Aah, it will make headshots possible!

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walaber
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Posted: 19th Aug 2004 12:49
well after some consideration I think I'm going to try and turn this into a compo entry. I've come up with a new theme that won't require as many models as my original idea, and I think it will still be pretty fun.

now to get modelling, only 2 months left, and only 1 hour / day to work!!

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PiratSS
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Posted: 19th Aug 2004 13:11
nice use of your wrapper. 1hr/per day is more then enough, you have more time to think your game through.

Physics coder
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Posted: 19th Aug 2004 14:25
very cool

-----------------------------------
To delete the bug, delete the code.
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Peter H
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Posted: 19th Aug 2004 23:41
i might be able to make you some models but i can't texture worth poop

"We make the worst games in the universe."
Kentaree
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Posted: 19th Aug 2004 23:49
Looks very cool, downloading it now. I'm wondering though, is that level inspired somewhat by a GoldenEye deatmatch level?

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Van B
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Posted: 20th Aug 2004 01:14
That's the spirit Walaber. Just make as many different ways for these little buggers to die as you can and you can't go wrong .

Good luck.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
walaber
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Posted: 20th Aug 2004 14:01
Kentaree - not really, I just slapped some boxes together in Milkshape to get a test going...

re-incarnated project update
did some work on one of several editors that will be needed for the game... this is the simplest editor, it allows you to build standard rigid bodies outside the code, defining the visual object and its settings, and the various primitives used to define it as a rigid body. when it's done (have the interface done, and most of the code written), I'll be able to generate rigid bodies with a single command: Load_NDBody( filename ).

it will automatically load the visual object, and setup the newton collision primitives, and set all of the settings for the object. this is actually so usefull I think it could be released as a seperate tool for any Newton DBPro project.

after this editor, I need to make the overall editor for the game, which will allow me to create / adjust an entire level itself (camera movement keyframes, enemy keyframes, events, etc). That will be a project in itself, but if I get it working it'll make tweaking the game REALLY easy, and I should be able to adjust the game quickly and efficiently. plus writing the editor indirectly writes most of the engine as well I've never written such a complex editor though, so it will be a challenge.

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MikeS
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Posted: 20th Aug 2004 17:41
Sounds great Walaber, I'm glad you decided to revive this project. Just got to love the rag-doll, spent most of my time just shooting aliens on the ground to watch their joints fly.

If you need any help on the 3D side, let me know and I may be able to do a couple objects for you.



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(Formerly known as Yellow)
walaber
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Posted: 21st Aug 2004 10:59
here's a screenshot of the editor I'm working on. It's a designer for standard solid bodies (not moving parts, just simple rigid bodies). don't be fooled by the screenshot, the model is just for testing, this is not a ragdoll designer.

I think the tool is almost complete, it's already near a usable state, just need to test the save function and add a load function. all of which are my projects for today

click for a full-size image:


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Jess T
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Posted: 21st Aug 2004 16:59
Looks nice Walaber, good work

Jess.


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Powersoft
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Posted: 21st Aug 2004 17:09
*ditto*


Scorched Turf --> Project Thread
walaber
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 12:15 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2004 14:14
project update - I've finished one of several editors I'll be using for the game, and have a beta version for everyone to try!

--------------
Rigid Body Designer
(click for larger images)


This program lets you setup the primitives to describe a complex object for use with Newton. you visually adjust the boxes/spheres to fit your object, and then save to a custom binary .bod file format I have designed. then with a single command you can load an object into the Newton world, with all of the Newton settings intact.

The demo comes with the designer itself, and a test program that allows you to load .bod files into a simple Newton world. Anyone interested, please give it a try (even just to test the loader- the download comes with a few sample .bod files) and let me know if you run into any bugs/problems.

after the compo is over I'll probably release this system (including the .bod loader) for everyone to use.

DOWNLOAD LINK - approx 3.3MB

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PiratSS
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 12:52
Sheep are the funniest

walaber
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 11:17
project update

still working hard. today I got the basics of the ragdoll designer working. I still have to add the Save/Load functions, but the editor itself is working great! after playing around I also realized a few more features I need to add, I'll work on those tomorrow.

screenshot (click for large)


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walaber
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 11:17
project update

I've got the ragdoll designer almost complete! today I successfully made a ragdoll from a DarkMatter object- here's the screenshots:

(click for 640x480 screenshot)


A few more adjustmenst to make, and I will have a demo ready, so you can try making your own ragdolls with the editor, and test them with the loader.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Peter H
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 11:27
can't wait! good work!

"We make the worst games in the universe."
walaber
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 12:32
It was a stroke of luck that the Dark Matter (2?) objects have their bones aligned properly for Newton (for the most part). however they require a little fiddling in the code to get them to work.. I'm still not 100% certain I can make a darkmatter model work as a mesh ragdoll (as opposed to the box ragdoll in the shots above)... the main problem is the bone heirarchy, bone 0 and the pelvis bone need to be in the same place/orientation for ragdolls to work properly. I think i have a solution that should work in most cases, but it's not exactly pretty

the ragdoll system definately works best with models designed with ragdolls in mind in the first place... but if I can get Dark Matter ragdolls working, I think a lot of people will be interested.

hopefully tomorrow I'll have a working demo for everyone to try. the Ragdoll Designer itself is working fantastic, I was able to setup the ragdoll in the above screenshots in about 5 minutes

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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David T
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 17:42
Yes, the models you used from Merc 2 were DarkMATTER 2.

Can't wait for a download

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
walaber
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 19:27
i thought so, IIRC the Dark Matter I models weren't bone-meshes...

anyway, check back tomorrow for a demo. same bat-time, same bat-channel!

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David T
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 19:49
Okay

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
zircher
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 00:31
Coolness, worst case scenario for bone zero might be 're-centering' function. I don't know how big of a hassle that would be.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
walaber
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 13:04
well crap. As usual it wasn't quite as simple as I was hoping...

I managed to fix the root bone offset problem very simply, no problem there. but I'm experiencing some rotation issues that need debugging. unfortunately I ran out of time this morning and had to go to work, so I'll have to try again tonight/tomorrow.. the problem could be a bug in my ragdoll file saving code, or in the loader...

but my gut tells me that it's a problem with the model setup... the Dark Matter 2 models have lots(!) of limbs... so when you make a ragdoll you inevitably skip various limbs, only making bones out of the major ones. however this causes a problem when you go to make the ragdoll, because the Newton Ragdoll heirarchy and the base object bone heirarchy are not exactly the same. this causes all sorts of math problems, and I'm not entirely sure I can solve them.

the next step is to test my editor and loader with my own ragdoll-tested models (the monster from the tech demo, and my monkey) and see if they work. if they do, then I know it's an issue with the setup of the Dark Matter models.

in which case, editing the actual models might be necessary, which nobody wants, because that almost always screws up animation...

anyway, I hope to work out exactly what's causing the problem asap... my compo entry depends on it

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 14:01
just as a side note, I just installed DX 9.0c on my work computer, and tried running the demos on this thread...

this CPU is a Celeron 1.7GHz, 256MB RAM + onboard graphics chip, and I still get a very reasonable framerate with both the tech demo, and the rigid body loader! Newton is amazingly fast

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Peter H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 22:07
Quote: "9.0c "

i thought the latest was 9.0b

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walaber
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 23:49
nope, 9.0c is out now.

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Peter H
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Posted: 27th Aug 2004 00:06
does DBPro use it?

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walaber
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Posted: 27th Aug 2004 11:08 Edited at: 27th Aug 2004 13:45
project update

I got the ragdoll designer working, at least with my own model. I can't seem to get it working with the Dark Matter II models, but in theory it should work. you simply have to copy the heirarchy properly, I must be doing something wrong.

either way, it is very usable, and probably won't be updated again until after the compo is over, because I can definately use it at this point.

click for larger screenshots:



BETA DOWNLOAD - includes ragdoll designer + test ragdoll loader .exe, plus the "franky" example in the screenshots.

-BASIC INSTRUCTIONS-


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walaber
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Posted: 27th Aug 2004 15:12 Edited at: 27th Aug 2004 15:13
just as an example I used psionic's zombie model to make a ragdoll!! unfortunately I had to edit the bones in Character FX to line them up, so the animation is funny, but it works!



DOWNLOAD LINK - unrar and load into the ragdoll designer or rag_loader to try it out!! wo-hoo

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French gui
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Posted: 28th Aug 2004 07:29
Walaber , I really think you're a HERO!

My English is not so good I'm just French
PiratSS
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Posted: 28th Aug 2004 08:01
yea, great work walaber.

French gui
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Posted: 28th Aug 2004 08:30 Edited at: 28th Aug 2004 08:56
humm... any chances for adding a loader in DBP for your ragdoll's editor? (if you keep it for the compo I'll easily understand! )

It's tricky to find the good IDnumber of limb in your rag editor.Perhaps you can ghost on/off alternatively (like in 3db object viewer) the limb or make an object from limb and set it's wireframe on?

Another question : why ,in the Francky example, there's 2 limbs (no1 and no2) for the pelvis?

My English is not so good I'm just French
walaber
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Posted: 28th Aug 2004 10:55
If anyone wants to use the ragdoll system for their compo entry, please e-mail me. I'll send you the DBPro function to load .rag files, and apply them to a previously loaded object.

French gui - the Franky example only has 1 pelvis bone, but 2 overall bones to make his body. remember, the selected bone is red, and that bone's parent is shown in yellow.

the easiest way to make a ragdoll in the editor is to press "new", and then choose the "main limb". it will update in realtime showing what limb you are choosing.

if anyone gets a ragdoll working, please post it here!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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French gui
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 08:10 Edited at: 29th Aug 2004 08:12
I've made my very first ragdoll (a ugly very simple model) with Walaber's ragdoll editor! I've made some errors with bones positions but I'm still happy. I will try to make something better...



My English is not so good I'm just French
walaber
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 11:31
nice!! it's very cool to see people using the tools!!

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PiratSS
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 13:56
Nice walaber, if I get around to it, I want one of my weapons in the game to be a ragdoll ^^

Peter H
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 22:33
my game is 2D...so i can't use it

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walaber
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 18:03
update - made some progress on the engine internals for the actual game. I'm trying something new, a way to store and access information that I've never tried before... after using C++ for the Newton wrapper I've come to love class(es), so I'm sort of crudely implementing them in DBPro... in a sort of C-library style... objects made up of various data, and functions built to work on that data.

For the system I've decided to use memblocks to mimick UDTs, but I have more freedom with my own system because I can have arrays within my data structures. it's a bit more complicated to write, but I think it'll be pretty slick in the long run.


Right now I'm sort of switching back and forth between creating models and designing the core game engine. I have about 80% of the engine worked out in my head, now it's a matter of getting it into code, and designing the level editor.

I'll be going out of town on the 4th for about 10 days... taking my laptop with me. but it can't run DBPro, so I'll be working on modelling while I'm away. hopefully I can make a large dent in the amount of models I need to come up with.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 11:02
update

yet another editor in the works, this is a general character designer for all characters (mostly enemies) in the game. you can choose the basic model + outfit texture, and assign the various variables that make up the character. these will then be loadable in the level designer, where you add motion keyframes.

click for larger image


note I'll be out of town for about 10 days. I'm taking my laptop with me, so hopefully I can get some modelling done, and take a big dent out of the big list of models I need

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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walaber
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 15:28
I'm still out of town, but I have got the internet working.

I've been modelling for the project, here's a quick screenshot of some models I've made, you can probably guess the theme of the game



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Mitchell
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 22:54
cool. both the theme and the models

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- Shigeru Miyamoto
zircher
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 00:29
Cool, you have some distinctive architecture to pick and choose from. I have visions of shiruken (sp?) whizzing about and picking off targets.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Snipa Masta
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 02:17
Awesome stuff. But on that character the robe things round his legs has some serious poly wastage. That flat surface could be done with 2 polys.
French gui
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 04:08 Edited at: 11th Sep 2004 04:09
Snipa Masta: I think it is armor plates so it must have some thickness...

Walaber: will you do some ragdoll with these models?

My English is not so good I'm just French

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