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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / - DBPro Coding Challenges -

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 20:03
Instead of using arrays, how about using recursion (ie, call the function again from within itself)?

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Sven B
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 20:07
Quote: "Instead of using arrays, how about using recursion (ie, call the function again from within itself)?"


That was the original idea. Now we are trying to find a fast other way because DBP has a limit on recursive function calls.

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
Phaelax
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 20:12
i can fill a partial screen with memblock instantly, so the slowdown has got to be with the array. I tried adapting your function with memblocks the other night and tried to find a way of estimating the size of the array needed so as to not need to keep changing it. I have another idea for it though. Since you say it should never exceed the maximum perimeter of the canvas, then a size of (width+height)*2 should be sufficient.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Sven B
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 20:14
Try it and tell us if it works

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 20:25
Quote: "then a size of (width+height)*2 should be sufficient."

Was gonna say - that'd work easily! Its not efficient in terms of use of memory, but the requirement here is speed - not efficiency.

Add one (or however big ther required block size is) to it so you can keep a counter at the begining rather than use a variable (not sure if it'd be quicker).

Its interesting to know that arrays are ridiculously slow...

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Phaelax
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 22:04 Edited at: 8th Jul 2006 22:23
when you delete or add an element, doesn't it dim another array of the needed size then copy the elements over? If so, that's a lot of memory swapping.

Quote: "In theory you should never have more elements in it then the perimeter of your canvas"


of the canvas? or of the area is filling? I just want to clarify since its easy to draw a shape with a perimeter way larger than the canvas's.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 22:44 Edited at: 8th Jul 2006 23:14
Quote: "of the canvas? or of the area is filling? I just want to clarify since its easy to draw a shape with a perimeter way larger than the canvas's "


I said canvas because that is the max area it could fill, though if the area were 100x100 on a 512x512 canvas it should be 400 elements max, the thing is its hard to tell what the exact area is before you try to fill it. though you could make a shape with a larger perimeter each point can only go in one of four directions and is then closed off. example if a shape had a huge perimiter and fit inside a 200x200 box it still has a smaller area then a 200x200 box.

If you look here you can see the green is newly drawn and the orange would be closed points, as the perimeter gets trickier the array actually gets smaller



EDIT: and now that I look at is closer the max array size should actually be around 1/2 of the perimeter

EDIT AGAIN: OK so I'm wrong , I set up the function to return the number of elements to me and found the following, a big open area has less max elements (perimeter as I thought) but makes more deletions, A complex shape is much faster to fill because the array will become larger (circles are the biggest hogs and a screen sized one used just over 8,000 elements) but they use less total elements. I also found that flood fill from the corner of a blank canvas was 5 times faster then from the center and the max array size was actually 1/2 the perimeter

So i would guess that if the function were to push the first point drawn to a corner it would be much faster.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 01:39
Quote: "circles are the biggest hogs and a screen sized one used just over 8,000 elements"


so thats a 2000x2000 image, quite larger than screen size. If its from a smaller canvas, then its beyond the perimiter.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 02:01 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 02:02
Quote: "so thats a 2000x2000 image, quite larger than screen size. If its from a smaller canvas, then its beyond the perimiter."


Yes it is, it looks to me like it is because of the order it is drawing in. if I fill the same circle from near the edge I was getting 300 max elements, I am going back over the routine to see if I can sharpen it, my plan is to have it find the upper right most edge first and fill from there because filling from the edges is much faster for some reason. Aside from circles however any other shape I have worked with has been below the canvas perimeter.



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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 02:05 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 02:06
juast another example with an object with a very large perimeter




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Check out my great stuff here
David Gervais
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 02:15 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 18:25
Sorry for the interruption, I need feedback from Lower Logic. I gave the 3 tab idea some thought and what do you think of simply enlarging the display area and just making it an all in one calc. the functions or plotting will simply depend on if the user selects 'plot' or not.



Let me know what you think.

Cheers!
Ruler8163
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 03:36 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 04:04
Heres my unfortunately uncomplete entry, maybe it will get something Never got around to adding a save/load function. Just one question, the deadline is midnight tonight, right? or do i have more time.....


Well i give up, the tab doesnt work for me

Inspiron XPS GEN 2 Intel M Pentium 760(2GHz/533MHz FSB) 1GB RAM 256MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 Ultra 60GB Hard Drive
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 03:38
Have to say that looks nice dave

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lower logic
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 03:39 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 03:45
That looks great David! I'm fine with making it an all in one calc. I also like the Lunar Powered sign. I'm sure it will look even better once the other buttons have their functions on them.

Ruler8163
The deadline is midnight EST on sunday night, so you have 27 hours and about 15 minutes. Could you edit your previous post and put the code in code tags like
Ruler8163
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 04:05 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 04:05
i tried to edit it, but it wont work, so ill just attatch it

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Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 08:14
Quote: " find the upper right most edge first and fill from there because filling from the edges is much faster for some reason. "


That's probably true from any corner you start at. If you think about it, you're basically eliminating 2 directions from the spread right off the bat because it hits the perimeter.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 09:21 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 09:23
Quote: "That's probably true from any corner you start at. If you think about it, you're basically eliminating 2 directions from the spread right off the bat because it hits the perimeter."


It is, I just chose that side because I like it

some pics of some of my newly added (no buttons yet) effects
Psychodelic and noise





This is the highest noise setting

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 09:22
imagelink

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lower logic
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 09:24 Edited at: 9th Jul 2006 09:29
The psychedelic effect looks pretty cool.
[edit]
Does the noise just make each pixel a random color, or does it edit each pixel's color a small, but still random, amount? I'm thinking the cooler noise effect would be the latter, as it would be fun to control the amount each pixel could randomly change and try it on a picture. Just an idea.
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 09:26
Thanks, Started as a blur function.

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David Gervais
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 18:30
Lower Logic,.. I updated the calc pic in earlier post (refresh your browser) and tell me If any buttons are missing. I have room for up to 4 more in top left aera of scientific buttons. If all is well I will save the background and buttons as separate files with the different button 'states' normal/pressed (and can also do highlighted if you want/need that) I'll make the INV and HYP buttons with both 'ON' and 'OFF' modes.

Cheers!
Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 19:07
When I first glanced at your function hobgoblin, I thought the array was like a stack, where the element removed was always at the bottom. I see now that's not true and the element must actually be removed. I did a for loop to move all elements above to drop down by 1 and overwrite its spot. Speed doesn't impress me. It took about 40 seconds to fill a 900x900 or so area.



"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
lower logic
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Posted: 9th Jul 2006 20:55
Looks great David, I just want to put the constants, E and PI, near each other and move Let, Def, and Plot to the left, like in this image:
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 00:26
I'm working on my entry - trying to do some fancy memblock/memory filling algorithms onto a 3D plain.

[center]
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 01:41
This is my current entry...


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BillR
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 01:53 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 03:26
@Nicholas - Arrays are EXTREMELY fast! - At least I think so.
I am working on a real time simulation, and I can scan through 1000 element array hundreds of time every second!

But, expanding arrays is where you are getting your slow down.
Just create a large enough array at the start, and you won't have a speed issue.

@David - Nice calculator graphics!
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 02:06
Ahh interesting... Seems I may have wasted my evening on a memory pointer alternative! Its fun watching it fill in though

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 02:49
Finally, fixed the layer ordering problem. Can now add and remove layers. Removing layers has a small bug (bug as in I was too lazy to finish writing the function).

I'm taking a skate break for an hour or so. If I still have some time left tonight I'm going to finish the "Save" routine and add a spray can.

I was going to do gradient fills, but stupid me forgot to support a background color. I don't feel like reworking the GUI at the moment.




"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
lower logic
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 04:51
@Phaelax - the layers are pretty neat, Adding new layers and moving them up and down is also cool. In your latest snippet the line and circle tools weren't working, though the pencil tool works great.

@Nicholas - pretty nice 3d painting, and the filler is... unique. It is fun to watch it fill, at least on small areas, but it sometimes spills though pencil drawn lines. Other than that the pencil and straight line tools are working fine.

There's a little over 2 hours left in the challenge everybody, so be sure to post your final entries soon.
Darth Vader
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 06:31
For the next challenge I have a great idea. What about re-creating the classic DOS game "Sword of the Samurai"? It's a great game I love it! I would also love to see what everyone does if you need more info on the game I can find you a link for download (Or I can host it!).


I have the longest Biog under my profile button!

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 06:54 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 06:57
Here is my Final

Got save/load in auto chooses .bmp sorry.

2 filters added Noise and psycho each can be set from level 1-20 and clicking it activates the filter. very high filter levels can take a little while on a big canvas.

selecting new canvas will make a new blank canvas of the size you specify from 1x1 to 800x600, this will delete your old work and cannot be undone.

upped undo to 30 levels

default canvas is 128x128





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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 07:00
How about next something that uses min/max as I have never attempted to use it(unless it has been done I have to admit I have not looked at every past challenge).

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 07:12 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 07:31
Final entry here. Added a basic noise filter which fills the whole layer and a spray can in the last 2 minutes. Very rushed so I didn't have time to fix the minor bugs in the spray.
Default canvas is 800x600, sorry resizing wasn't completed.



"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 07:13 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 07:15
Quote: "How about next something that uses min/max "


min and max of what?


I was thinking of a simple challenge to attract the newer people again. Basic concept, Pong! How in depth you take the original game is the challenge. Perhaps triangle paddles or a spinning rectangular ball?

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 07:17 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 07:28
Quote: "Does the noise just make each pixel a random color, or does it edit each pixel's color a small, but still random, amount? I'm thinking the cooler noise effect would be the latter, as it would be fun to control the amount each pixel could randomly change and try it on a picture. Just an idea. "


As you will see it is not completely random it begins from a point original rgb and modifies is based on the noise level.


Quote: "min and max of what?"


Min/max is the type of algorythm used for a player vs comp game like chess, checkers, go etc. It is used to pick the comps best move, I have read a little about it but have never tried to implement it, not correctly anyway.

EDIT
Quote: "I was thinking of a simple challenge to attract the newer people again. Basic concept, Pong! How in depth you take the original game is the challenge. Perhaps triangle paddles or a spinning rectangular ball?"


Not a bad idea for something simple either, but perhaps something a little more than pong like the old atari 2600 Adventure or something.

Phaleanx
I tried your most recent code and only the pencil and noise options seem to work I could not get it to draw a line or circle to save my life.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 07:36
line and circle were never implemented, even though I have a line routine. The problem was basically displaying to the user what will be drawn before it is drawn. Since all 2D drawing functions draw behind sprites (very annoying) I'd have to create my own virtual screen basically that overlayed the whole image and keep clearing it (refresh) like you would a normal screen. Completely doable, but a fair bit of work.

I think I spent more time on the GUI for controlling the drawing functions than I did on the actual drawing routines themselves.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 07:42
WHat you could try is to create a bitmap say #1, have the actual drawing take place there, make an image from it each loop, switch back to bitmap 0 and make a sprite from bitmap 1. Just a thought

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lower logic
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 09:44 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 12:12
Ok, here are the results of the challenge. Dave is also a judge so we'll have to wait until he judges the entries before we can declare anyone the winner. I commented on each entry, and after the comments is the score. The rating is on a scale from 1 (lowest) to 10 (highest). While nobody scored a 10, many of you did well. Anyway, here are the results!

Quote: "
sixblades:
You were off to a great start with the nice GUI, it's just too bad that you didn't work on it some more and combine your paint/image processing code with your GUI. 5
"


Quote: "
Halo man:
It's too bad you didn't work on it some more. The line and circle functions work fine and you have a nice rgb value editor. 5
"


Quote: "
Nicholas:
Very nice realtime memblock and texture editing, but it was limited in that it didn't have a color picker/changer. The three tools were fine, though the flood filling was really slow. Still, it's a good start and I hope you continue it by letting users paint on different triangles on the object and capitalize on the fact that you are painting onto a 3D model. Still, it scores points for being completely different from the other entries. 6
"


Quote: "
Ruler8163:
Your tools work great and the color picker is really nice. I also like the RGB value editing. I was a bit disappointed to not find a pencil tool, and image saving and loading would have been a nice addition. The flood fill is very fast and works flawlessly. Out of all the entries, your tools are the easiest to use, and you have a fair number of them. I also like the brush command. 8
"


Quote: "
Phaelax:
The layers functionality is one of the coolest elements that make this entry stand out. The color picker is alright and the pencil tool works great. The flood fill doesn't always completely flood like Ruler's, but it works pretty good most of the time. I think this could have been the winner if you added resizing and worked on the actual tools more. The noise and spray are nice additions. The file loading is also really good. 8
"


Quote: "
Hobgoblin Lord:
The color pallet is really nice. The tools were also great once I got used to the two click method of drawing lines etc. The pencil and fill work great, and the brush size editor for the pencil, line, spray, and circle is great. Save and load work fine as well. I really like filters, they work great. I must have spent five minutes playing with the noise effect, by watching images slowly fade into random noise . Overall it is a very good paint program. 9
"


Quote: "
Sven B:
This paint program is definately one of the best. Not only is the window interface really nice for editing multiple images at the same time, but the tools aren't half bad. I particularly liked the density and size for the spray tool. The color editor/picker is also simple and easy to use. The zoom/magnifying tool also works great. Also, the custom file browser was plain, simple, and easy to understand, just how I like it. Lastly, the ability to save and load in multiple formats is really useful. 9
"


And attached are the seven final entries:
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 11:14
@LowerLogic - thanks for attaching the entries you graded! That makes life a LOT easier! And very well judged. I'm flattered you thought my entry

I agree the next challenge should be one for the "newbs". Has anyone noticed that the easier challenges tend to draw in more people?

Pong's been done before I think - however something like Space Invaders hasn't!

[center]
David Gervais
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 15:27
Ok, I took the time to run and fiddle with all these entries. First Thanks for inviting me to help Judge this paint program compo. It was fun.

I'm gonna do a Good News/Bad News post for each entry.(Some entries will only have Bad News, and some will only have Good News) At the end I'll Say whom IMHO I think should win.

Quote: "Sixblades's Entry:
Good News..
I too was impresed with the initial run of the program. Thanks for the entry.
Bad News..
You should have kept up the work to put some basic paint functions in the program.
"


Quote: "Halo Man's Entry:
Good News..
It's a start. The pencil function worked fine and the overall presentation was good. Thanks for your entry.
Bad News..
The line and circle tools had no visual feedback so it was like drawing blind. the line or circle only showed up when I released the mouse button. It could be a graphics card issue not sure. Thanks for the entry."


Quote: "Nicholas's Entry:
Bad News..
I'm sorry to say on my system all I got was what looks like a white box (possibly a 3d Cube object) and could not manage to draw anything on the box. Because of this I must restrain from any evaluation. Sorry dude."


Quote: "Ruler8163's Entry:
Good News..
I have to agree, your entry was the easiest to get a hang of and all your tools worked flawlessly, Great job."


Quote: "Phaelax's Entry:
Good News..
The ability to work on layers shows that you have some interesting things planned. As far as I could tell only the pencil, fill and spray tools were working. All in all an easy to use paint program. You get 1 Thumb up from me, gratz.
Bad News..
I could not get the Circle and Box functions to work. I'm not sure if they are in and not working or just not coded yet.
"


Quote: "Hobgoblin Lord's Entry:
Good News..
The classic palette selection made color choice a breeze, the various tools worked fine. The addition of filters shows that you can think 'outside the box' from the traditional paint programs. Kind of like a built in plugin. I can tell you had fun making the program. Fantastic job, Gratz."


Quote: "Sven B's Entry:
Good News..
I like the multiple window(project) aspect of your paint program. All the tools worked fine. The spray tool is my favorite (for all the paint programs with this function) The color adjustment is simple and easy to use. I also like the support for multiple file formats. Excellent entry, 2 thumbs up. Way to go dude, Gratz.
Bad News..
There was a strange delay (as much as a full second or more) before the Line, Box and Circle functions kicked in. At first I thought the tools did not work. No delay/pause was noticable on the pencil and spray tools.
"


Now that the comments are out of the way, it's time to Judge. Here are my top 3 winners..

3rd Place: Ruler8163
2nd Place: Sven B

And the Winner is..

1st Place: Hobgoblin Lord

I have to say making the final decision was no easy task, Sven b's and Hobgoblin Lord's entries were both Excellent. And you are both winners in my opinion. The thing that nudged Sven to second place was the strange 'delay' that was occuring when drawing lines boxes and circles. If it's a hardware issue on my end then blame my antique computer. lol.

I noticed one BIG thing while testing these programs.. I'm a graphics whimp without my 'Undo' function. LoL

Thanks for all the entries, this was a fun challenge to follow.

Have a great day, Cheers!
Alexb Orsova
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 16:50
ideas for next challenge:
1)solar system model
2)3d minesweeper

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Sven B
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 17:19
This was a pretty fun challenge. And I think I know where the delay with my line, circle and box tool came from... I grabbed the whole screen as a background...

Ah well. I'll probably not finish the next challenge, we're going to France in a couple of days... (yay)

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 19:39
Quote: "Because of this I must restrain from any evaluation."

Nicely worded
Interesting why it didn't work... Either there is an interesting bug worth exploring there or you weren't using it right.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 21:13
Quote: "I noticed one BIG thing while testing these programs.. I'm a graphics whimp without my 'Undo' function. LoL"


Me too thats why I made sure to add it

Thanks Dave for taking the time to help us out on this one.
So does this mean I won? I think so.

I think I will continue work on it like lower is doing with the calc, DB paint perhaps a freebie paint for the community.

I like the idea of a remake of a classic game that will be easy enough to help draw new people to the challenge yet open for some real creative coding.

I am thinking either warlords (close to pong in a way)
or pacman

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David Gervais
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 21:40
If Lower Logic judged 1st place Sven B and Hobgoblin lord 2nd place, and I judged Hobgoblin lord 1st place and Sven B 2nd place does that not make it a tie? lol

I was asked to 'Help' Judge that does not make my judgement final. we have to hear from Lower Logic first for the official winner.

But seriously, you all did a fine job. gratz to you all.

Cheers!
The end is near
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 21:52
I think space invaders is a fine idea.
It would offer a lot of space for creativity and all out fun.
I personally like the idea of a game more than an application, That is why i did not do the paint challenge.

lower logic
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 22:57 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 23:00
I couldn't decide which was better, Sven B's or Hobgoblin Lord's paint program, so after reading the good and bad news in David's post, I agree that Hobgoblin Lord is the winner .

Space invaders sounds like a fun challenge.
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 23:13 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 23:20
Thanks Lower and Dave.

OK Space Invaders it is.

Entries will be judged on

playability (is the game play smooth)

accesability (can the game be played by anyone by both uber gamer and someone who has to use something like a Head Tracker and still be fun, so basically difficulty levels)

Originality (funny to say that when we are cloning something but what does your version bring to the player that makes your attempt unique)

2 weeks should be enough so contest starts now and ends 11:59 pm, July 24th, EST.

Good luck all

EDIT:
@Dave, Is there anychance we could see some of the images you made with our apps?

http://www.cafepress.com/blackarrowgames
Check out my great stuff here
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 00:06
great! im already working on it!!
Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Jul 2006 01:07
that was a fun contest, even if i disagreed with the results. (i wanna win!) more time more time!


space invaders, eh? I can live with that. Atari didn't need media, why should we!

I agree with Hobgoblin, I'd like to see some of the stuff you've managed to create with the apps.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike

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